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Reply #30 posted 08/04/21 7:35am

Mackopolis44

Vannormal said:



TheEnglishGent said:


Because he found better musicians.



-


Do not agree.


Music is much more than perfectly trained musicians.


Skills don't have anything to do with 'the soul of chemistry' and/or (the commn emphathy as a band/friends'.


Perfect sounding music trough better skilled musicians, is what Prince's music lacked after The Revolution. Music that did not hit the charts nor the hearts of many others (like before).


Period. smile


Bash me.


-


I'm a fan of both of these musical titans and I wholeheartedly agree with this! Anyone can make music, but it needs to be experienced and felt! All of Prince's bands have been different and it's great to embrace this. The NPG couldn't make Parade and The Revolution would struggle with 3121. Great musicians have a style of their own much like you couldn't ask Picasso to paint a Van Gogh.
Bruce Springsteen has built on his awesome career by using the same musicians but even he diversified (see the Seeger Sessions). Prince changed musicians frequently to match his whim. Neither are right or wrong- both are musical geniuses 😎✌🎹
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Reply #31 posted 08/04/21 8:13am

Cinny

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He didn't want to risk repeating himself (then) and thought different musicians would result in better jamming material to steal from. But it turns out better chops doesn't mean better composing.
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Reply #32 posted 08/04/21 8:33am

master

jaawwnn said:



master said:


milesb said:

For the musicianship of his bands I hold up the 1984 Birthday Show, any soundboard Parade show, and the BBC 1993 mini concert as some of the best examples of his bands at the top of their game. I don't hear anything up to that level in anything post ONA tour. Not even during the O2 residency.


But it's all personal oppinions of course



This new Blu-ray wipes floor with all revolution shows. It is peak prince.like O2 but even better. Welcome 2 America was his best tour & I heard most of shows. Revolution were nothing special live. He had to b in spotlight all time as they not quite top level.

lol dream on

You'll find a lot of Revolution haters on here but this is a pretty unique take.


Not a unique take. He alway rated high live. It easily in his top 5 tours. Which tour is better is really a personal preference. Gold tour , xenophobia 2002, piano & mic, sott,lovesexy.
Parade & purple tour I rate lower,just on musicianship. I know u think more inspired on purple rain tour but to me he seemed more inspired on W2A tour . He gave other musicians more spotlight because excellent. Bobby Z &Wendy don't add that much to live show. They o.k live nothing more
[Edited 8/4/21 8:34am]
[Edited 8/4/21 8:35am]
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Reply #33 posted 08/04/21 8:38am

jaawwnn

Hey I enjoyed the show I saw.

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Reply #34 posted 08/04/21 11:28am

funkman88

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He got better as a musician and outgrew them...really the only exceptional players in the band was Fink & Lisa...rest were average players at best.he had to get more quality...revolution was built on Race/looks.hE DIDNT NEED TO DO THAT ANYMORE.

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Reply #35 posted 08/04/21 12:17pm

RJOrion

mrjj71 said:

RJOrion said:




100% FACT


Despite him saying in several interviews that Brown Mark was the best bass player he ever had?!


Brown Mark was the only exception...Prince definitely upgraded from Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z and Fink
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Reply #36 posted 08/04/21 1:08pm

funkman88

avatar

RJOrion said:

mrjj71 said:
Despite him saying in several interviews that Brown Mark was the best bass player he ever had?!
Brown Mark was the only exception...Prince definitely upgraded from Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z and Fink

lol he was being kind.....hell at one point he saID KIRK WAS GOOD ON DRUMS,AND WENDY WAS A GREAT SOLOIST TOO :-D biggrin brown mark cant even be in same room with larry graham,Sonny Thompson, or Rhonda smith......He was so great he is the only band member in Purple Rain with no speaking line...not 1 word just 1 second deer in the headlights looks....but he was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo great! biggrin

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Reply #37 posted 08/04/21 1:29pm

KoolEaze

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funkman88 said:

RJOrion said:

mrjj71 said: Brown Mark was the only exception...Prince definitely upgraded from Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z and Fink

lol he was being kind.....hell at one point he saID KIRK WAS GOOD ON DRUMS,AND WENDY WAS A GREAT SOLOIST TOO :-D biggrin brown mark cant even be in same room with larry graham,Sonny Thompson, or Rhonda smith......He was so great he is the only band member in Purple Rain with no speaking line...not 1 word just 1 second deer in the headlights looks....but he was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo great! biggrin

In my opinion Michael Bland is a great drummer, and he once called Kirk Johnson one of the best drummers in Minnesota.

I don´t have very fond memories of the years when Kirk was the drummer but what do I know?

Michael B. surely must know something I don´t .

Brownmark not having a line in PR does not mean much, he still had a very unique bass sound, and I am not exactly a big fan of his constant whining in interviews , but you gotta give props where props are due. He is an exceptional bass player who added a lot to the mid 80s sound of Prince.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #38 posted 08/04/21 1:56pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Prince def got better musicians as he went on
Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore
So it's a trade off

Many creative ppl do the same thing - focus more on craft and technique as they get older
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Reply #39 posted 08/04/21 2:22pm

funkman88

avatar

KoolEaze said:

funkman88 said:

lol he was being kind.....hell at one point he saID KIRK WAS GOOD ON DRUMS,AND WENDY WAS A GREAT SOLOIST TOO :-D biggrin brown mark cant even be in same room with larry graham,Sonny Thompson, or Rhonda smith......He was so great he is the only band member in Purple Rain with no speaking line...not 1 word just 1 second deer in the headlights looks....but he was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo great! biggrin

In my opinion Michael Bland is a great drummer, and he once called Kirk Johnson one of the best drummers in Minnesota.

I don´t have very fond memories of the years when Kirk was the drummer but what do I know?

Michael B. surely must know something I don´t .

Brownmark not having a line in PR does not mean much, he still had a very unique bass sound, and I am not exactly a big fan of his constant whining in interviews , but you gotta give props where props are due. He is an exceptional bass player who added a lot to the mid 80s sound of Prince.

wow minnesota....the land of great drummers...it aint ohio deart smh...

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Reply #40 posted 08/04/21 2:25pm

jaawwnn

Basically y'all just wanted Prince fronting Rush, admit it.

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Reply #41 posted 08/04/21 3:46pm

Cinny

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince def got better musicians as he went on Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore


And a lot of songs came from jamming. So in other words, when people say the best band was The Revolution, chops are only a fraction of the criteria for what they brought to the studio and stage, and deserve to be praised for being the catalyst or actual sources of composing better (his BEST) songs.

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Reply #42 posted 08/04/21 3:47pm

Cinny

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jaawwnn said:

Basically y'all just wanted Prince fronting Rush, admit it.

canada Exactly yawn

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Reply #43 posted 08/04/21 3:50pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Prince didnt like his band challenging him

So he opted for musicians that would just say yes, not push him

Thats why he didnt want wendy and lisa around too long after 86

He needed to remind himself he could do it alone without other band members

To admit they were a good influence was too threatening

He wanted a band that didnt threaten him
[Edited 8/4/21 15:51pm]
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Reply #44 posted 08/04/21 3:55pm

mmart2008

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince def got better musicians as he went on Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore So it's a trade off Many creative ppl do the same thing - focus more on craft and technique as they get older

This point is bang on ! one thing that always gets me is that, would prince have done lovesexy with the revolution ? and would that resulting tour be anywhere near the level that the lovesexy tour was at? This tour was, in my opinion, his best ever. Like my friend said, a trade off, better musiscians and band but not as good ideas and musical nounce from the band members. Some great points from everyone on here, like it should be. Keep it up all

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Reply #45 posted 08/04/21 3:57pm

Cinny

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I think burning a bridge with Susannah, twin of Wendy, who comes part-and-parcel with Lisa, was the emotional reason. He invited their input before.

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Reply #46 posted 08/04/21 3:58pm

mmart2008

Cinny said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince def got better musicians as he went on Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore


And a lot of songs came from jamming. So in other words, when people say the best band was The Revolution, chops are only a fraction of the criteria for what they brought to the studio and stage, and deserve to be praised for being the catalyst or actual sources of composing better (his BEST) songs.

So true, when he split it up, I could hear the loss of their input straight away.

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Reply #47 posted 08/04/21 3:59pm

mmart2008

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince didnt like his band challenging him So he opted for musicians that would just say yes, not push him Thats why he didnt want wendy and lisa around too long after 86 He needed to remind himself he could do it alone without other band members To admit they were a good influence was too threatening He wanted a band that didnt threaten him [Edited 8/4/21 15:51pm]

Yep !

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Reply #48 posted 08/04/21 3:59pm

Cinny

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He needed to remind himself he could do it alone without other band members


Except every slot of the lineup needed replacing anyway, at least for the stage.

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Reply #49 posted 08/04/21 4:30pm

lurker316

avatar

RJOrion said:

mrjj71 said:
Despite him saying in several interviews that Brown Mark was the best bass player he ever had?!
Brown Mark was the only exception...Prince definitely upgraded from Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z and Fink


Tommy Barbarella was an upgrade over Matt Fink?



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Reply #50 posted 08/04/21 4:33pm

lurker316

avatar

KoolEaze said:

funkman88 said:

lol he was being kind.....hell at one point he saID KIRK WAS GOOD ON DRUMS,AND WENDY WAS A GREAT SOLOIST TOO :-D biggrin brown mark cant even be in same room with larry graham,Sonny Thompson, or Rhonda smith......He was so great he is the only band member in Purple Rain with no speaking line...not 1 word just 1 second deer in the headlights looks....but he was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo great! biggrin

In my opinion Michael Bland is a great drummer, and he once called Kirk Johnson one of the best drummers in Minnesota.


Michael Bland and Kirk were, at the very least, co-workers, if not friends. It's possible Michael was simply being kind when he offered that compliment. Or perhaps he was thinking of one specific element of Kirk's skill, such as the abiliy to keep time.



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Reply #51 posted 08/04/21 4:56pm

jfenster

Would he have kept the revolution if he felt they could play the new sound he wanted? I say no
[Edited 8/4/21 17:19pm]
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Reply #52 posted 08/04/21 5:38pm

funkman88

avatar

mmart2008 said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


Prince def got better musicians as he went on Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore So it's a trade off Many creative ppl do the same thing - focus more on craft and technique as they get older

This point is bang on ! one thing that always gets me is that, would prince have done lovesexy with the revolution ? and would that resulting tour be anywhere near the level that the lovesexy tour was at? This tour was, in my opinion, his best ever. Like my friend said, a trade off, better musiscians and band but not as good ideas and musical nounce from the band members. Some great points from everyone on here, like it should be. Keep it up all


His hair messed but Lovesexy Tour...sign o the times much better
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Reply #53 posted 08/04/21 6:36pm

LoveGalore

KoolEaze said:



funkman88 said:




RJOrion said:


mrjj71 said: Brown Mark was the only exception...Prince definitely upgraded from Wendy, Lisa, Bobby Z and Fink

lol he was being kind.....hell at one point he saID KIRK WAS GOOD ON DRUMS,AND WENDY WAS A GREAT SOLOIST TOO :-D biggrin brown mark cant even be in same room with larry graham,Sonny Thompson, or Rhonda smith.....He was so great he is the only band member in Purple Rain with no speaking line...not 1 word just 1 second deer in the headlights looks....but he was sooooo great! biggrin




In my opinion Michael Bland is a great drummer, and he once called Kirk Johnson one of the best drummers in Minnesota.


I don´t have very fond memories of the years when Kirk was the drummer but what do I know?


Michael B. surely must know something I don´t .


Brownmark not having a line in PR does not mean much, he still had a very unique bass sound, and I am not exactly a big fan of his constant whining in interviews , but you gotta give props where props are due. He is an exceptional bass player who added a lot to the mid 80s sound of Prince.



Any standout examples of live shows where Brownmark shines?
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Reply #54 posted 08/04/21 10:55pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

mmart2008 said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


Prince def got better musicians as he went on Its just he didnt have as good songs or ideas anymore So it's a trade off Many creative ppl do the same thing - focus more on craft and technique as they get older

This point is bang on ! one thing that always gets me is that, would prince have done lovesexy with the revolution ? and would that resulting tour be anywhere near the level that the lovesexy tour was at? This tour was, in my opinion, his best ever. Like my friend said, a trade off, better musiscians and band but not as good ideas and musical nounce from the band members. Some great points from everyone on here, like it should be. Keep it up all



That was his best touring band though, in 87/88 arguably. Idk if he could have performed that tour with the revolution, unless it was the expanded 86 version.
Who knows, if they had tur chance to make more records together, howthst could have gone
[Edited 8/4/21 22:59pm]
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Reply #55 posted 08/04/21 11:30pm

ForceofNature

I think anyone wrapped up in the "best" argument is straying from the real reason - Prince was always into playing with different, new musicians every few years and "reforming" would be not doing such and therefore he never did it beyond things like guest appearances from past people

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Reply #56 posted 08/05/21 1:21am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

ForceofNature said:

I think anyone wrapped up in the "best" argument is straying from the real reason - Prince was always into playing with different, new musicians every few years and "reforming" would be not doing such and therefore he never did it beyond things like guest appearances from past people

this is true.

he wasnt really into looking back.

always about moving on to the next thing.

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Reply #57 posted 08/05/21 2:51am

Vannormal

funkman88 said:

He got better as a musician and outgrew them...really the only exceptional players in the band was Fink & Lisa...rest were average players at best.

He had to get more quality...The Revolution was built on Race/looks.

HE DIDNT NEED TO DO THAT ANYMORE.

-

The first decade of his life, Prince was in a super fast growing phase.

He was at a constant innovative peak repeatedly making new music.

And that with an effortless result in whatever he did or touched.

That is a serious reason why the public and fandom grew, adored, respected and kept on following him.

Once he achieved stardom, and was at the peak/top, his output became somehow repetitive and less interesting to the general public (and in sales numbers).

Not to mention he became sort of a mainstream artist.

-

Yes he became a ''better skilled musician'', but kinda switched players and band mates rather to be amused and be surprised with whatever they could bring along.

But that rarely happened though. (Sure there were some excellent results here and there).

It was as if he lost some kind of street-credibility and equal friendships along the way, being alone at the top.

-

No he did not got more quality out all of that in the last two decades.

He just got more 'quantity' like disposable musicians with fantastic skills, band changes, and his so called freedom.

That gained freedom kinda had him struggling with a lot of things i believe.

He wasn't the guy to run a label, or to make business decisions.

Yes he tried a lot of new things, internet wise, label changes, etc.

Sometimes even mistakenly called a pioneer imho.

It more than often made him deviate of his core business, being a openminded impressible musician.

But the quality was far from the inventory first era he grew up in as a hungry musician, composer, etc.

That's how I feel it. (My humble opinion though.)

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #58 posted 08/05/21 3:37am

mrjj71

What surprises me how people here are split against The Revolution.

For me at least,no-one matches their creativity,influence,genre hopping,writing and just downright energy.

Sure,youth has a part to play in that but you only have to watch the official live video of Baby i'm a star to see that that energy was unmatched by later bands.

No-one played better funky solos with character like Matt Fink,no-one matched Brown Mark for groove (the closest player to Prince's actual style) and Wendy and Lisa came up with beautiful chord inversions and brought so many different influences with them.

Eric Leeds will always be THE sax player too.

In fact if I had to pick my top 3 backing bands it would go like this...

1.The Revolution.

2.The 87-89 band with Sheila,Levi,Boni etc.

3.The New Power Generation.

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Reply #59 posted 08/05/21 8:37am

Cinny

avatar

mrjj71 said:

3.The New Power Generation.

Wasn't "The NPG" actually, like, a dozen different bands over the years? lol

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