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Thread started 08/03/21 12:10pm

mmart2008

Why didn't Prince do a Springsteen, and rest the Revolution for an album or 2 and then reform. Discuss..

I read Springsteen's autobiography at the start of the first lockdown, not being a fan at all, but it was a great read. I noticed that he moved away from the E street band from time to time to do albums but, reformed the band every now and then to do an album with them. Would have been a smart move by Prince, as reading the new Duane Tudahl book as I am, his best and most creative years were with the Revolution. Just my thoughts, I'd be interested in yours.......

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Reply #1 posted 08/03/21 12:21pm

jfenster

Because he always wanted new sounds ..
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Reply #2 posted 08/03/21 12:23pm

TheEnglishGent

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Because he found better musicians.

RIP sad
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Reply #3 posted 08/03/21 12:35pm

mrjj71

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

Not sure that's strictly true to be honest.

For me,Brown Mark was easily the best bass player he had,especially in terms of groove and tightness.

And no-one has beaten Dr.fink on keys really.

I also think that Wendy and Lisa played a massive part in his success with their different chord inversions that really gave colour to the sound.

Later on he might have had some technically more proficient musicians but technique doesn't always mean a great musician.

Bb king being a great example of a musician who didn't do anything flashy but made his guitar sing.

I think personally that some of his later players were too muso and the sound got too clean and sterile.

[Edited 8/3/21 12:38pm]

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Reply #4 posted 08/03/21 12:46pm

Cinny

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He did hold on to Dr. Fink for the longest.

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Reply #5 posted 08/03/21 1:34pm

master

mrjj71 said:



TheEnglishGent said:


Because he found better musicians.



Not sure that's strictly true to be honest.



For me,Brown Mark was easily the best bass player he had,especially in terms of groove and tightness.



And no-one has beaten Dr.fink on keys really.



I also think that Wendy and Lisa played a massive part in his success with their different chord inversions that really gave colour to the sound.



Later on he might have had some technically more proficient musicians but technique doesn't always mean a great musician.



Bb king being a great example of a musician who didn't do anything flashy but made his guitar sing.



I think personally that some of his later players were too muso and the sound got too clean and sterile.

[Edited 8/3/21 12:38pm]


He got much better musicians. Kept a few of good ones longer.. Just one of those things. He wanted to go to higher level of musicianship. Revolution were turning him to dark side with Beatles inspired music & he put a stop to it.
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Reply #6 posted 08/03/21 2:35pm

BlueLantern

the last two decades, he was surrounded by excellent musicians,

his approach of music was the one of Miles Davis, making some shifts in order to stay fresh and novative, bringing to the table new talented musicians, who were inspirational for him.

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Reply #7 posted 08/03/21 2:45pm

tab32792

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.




This. No more. No less
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Reply #8 posted 08/03/21 2:48pm

lurker316

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Because Prince was always moving forward, rarely looking back. It would have been very out of character for him to go back to the Revolution.



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Reply #9 posted 08/03/21 3:11pm

peedub

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Maybe he was never looking for better/more proficient musicians. He was looking for different. Sometimes maybe people he might just enjoy playing with or being around. It's silly to speculate. He was capricious and prone to hold grudges. Who cares? You get what you got.
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Reply #10 posted 08/03/21 4:29pm

KoolEaze

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I love almost everything he did with the Revolution and they´ll always have a special place in Prince history but I´m not really sure if he was creative WHILE he was with the Revolution or BECAUSE he was with the Revolution. He´s made great and very creative music before and after the Revolution.

.

It must´ve been very difficult for all of them to continue working with all that tension between Wendy, Prince and Susannah. And I´m not sure if long breaks in between recordings and tours would´ve helped them reconcile their differences or spark creative energy.

I do agree with the posts above regarding the rather sterile sound he had with later bands because I absolutely love all those rehearsals with the Revolution. They may not have been his most versatile or tightest band but they had a very special sound.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #11 posted 08/03/21 6:16pm

donnyenglish

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.


This. The Revolution could have never pulled off the show that is on the recently released DVD. But that 2011 band could have replicated the 1984 shows in their sleep.
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Reply #12 posted 08/03/21 7:44pm

PennyPurple

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donnyenglish said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

This. The Revolution could have never pulled off the show that is on the recently released DVD. But that 2011 band could have replicated the 1984 shows in their sleep.

I agree with all the above!! smile

U.S.A.
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Reply #13 posted 08/03/21 10:07pm

Mumio

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donnyenglish said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

This. The Revolution could have never pulled off the show that is on the recently released DVD. But that 2011 band could have replicated the 1984 shows in their sleep.

Agreed.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #14 posted 08/03/21 11:45pm

mrjj71

Well,I agree with Jfenster-I think the reason for the changes weren't to do with finding 'better musicians' it was to do with finding a new sound.

Still to me,The Revolution was the only 'band' he ever had and by that I mean they were the only ones who comprehensively felt like a band rather than an assembled cast of (albeit very good) session guys.

And as I said,the most influential on his sound plus actual writing credits!

I just think that sylistically they were more versaltile than given credit for,covering several different styles and genres.

I'm not sure had they reformed they would have been able to recapture the old magic but I still would have loved to hear a reformed lp.

I think the main difference though, going back to the title of the thread , is that Bruce Springsteen never really strayed from his sound too much so it was easy to get back with the E-street band.

Bruce doesn't do funk or jazz or synth pop etc-he just does Bruce.

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Reply #15 posted 08/03/21 11:47pm

milesb

For the musicianship of his bands I hold up the 1984 Birthday Show, any soundboard Parade show, and the BBC 1993 mini concert as some of the best examples of his bands at the top of their game. I don't hear anything up to that level in anything post ONA tour. Not even during the O2 residency.

But it's all personal oppinions of course

My password is what
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Reply #16 posted 08/04/21 1:55am

ForceofNature

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

Tony M. was a better musician?

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Reply #17 posted 08/04/21 2:34am

jaawwnn

Yes, pure talent is how he chose his band members, the guy who put Andy Allo in his band.

This was nothing to do with musicianship, despite what the weird haters say, Prince was going in a direction where he couldn't see the Revolution fitting in, BrownMark was already half out of the camp, he'd been falling out with all of them over money... nothing was working from that perspective, the band politics was clearly getting in the way of making music.

As for reforming, it simply wasn't in his personality to do that. He'd see it as moving backwards, Springsteen clearly didn't. It's just a personality thing imho. Having said that, he played with them all at one point or another between 1986 and 2016.

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Reply #18 posted 08/04/21 2:47am

RJOrion

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.




100% FACT
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Reply #19 posted 08/04/21 3:03am

mrjj71

RJOrion said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.




100% FACT


Despite him saying in several interviews that Brown Mark was the best bass player he ever had?!
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Reply #20 posted 08/04/21 4:44am

KoolEaze

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jaawwnn said:

Yes, pure talent is how he chose his band members, the guy who put Andy Allo in his band.

This was nothing to do with musicianship, despite what the weird haters say, Prince was going in a direction where he couldn't see the Revolution fitting in, BrownMark was already half out of the camp, he'd been falling out with all of them over money... nothing was working from that perspective, the band politics was clearly getting in the way of making music.

As for reforming, it simply wasn't in his personality to do that. He'd see it as moving backwards, Springsteen clearly didn't. It's just a personality thing imho. Having said that, he played with them all at one point or another between 1986 and 2016.

When you say "all of them", who else besides Prince do you mean?

Just curious.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #21 posted 08/04/21 5:05am

jaawwnn

KoolEaze said:

jaawwnn said:

Yes, pure talent is how he chose his band members, the guy who put Andy Allo in his band.

This was nothing to do with musicianship, despite what the weird haters say, Prince was going in a direction where he couldn't see the Revolution fitting in, BrownMark was already half out of the camp, he'd been falling out with all of them over money... nothing was working from that perspective, the band politics was clearly getting in the way of making music.

As for reforming, it simply wasn't in his personality to do that. He'd see it as moving backwards, Springsteen clearly didn't. It's just a personality thing imho. Having said that, he played with them all at one point or another between 1986 and 2016.

When you say "all of them", who else besides Prince do you mean?

Just curious.

oh, sorry, I meant Prince had been falling out with all of the Revolution, not that Brownmark had been falling out will all of the Revolution!

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Reply #22 posted 08/04/21 5:11am

lurker316

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mrjj71 said:

I think the main difference though, going back to the title of the thread , is that Bruce Springsteen never really strayed from his sound too much so it was easy to get back with the E-street band.

Bruce doesn't do funk or jazz or synth pop etc-he just does Bruce.



This. You nailed it on the head. Bruce went back to the E Street band because he wanted to continue that particular sound. In contrast, Prince didn't go back to the Revolution because he wanted a new sound. Prince was always (bar a period in the '90s) looking for the next new sound.

[Edited 8/4/21 5:12am]

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Reply #23 posted 08/04/21 5:15am

KoolEaze

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jaawwnn said:

KoolEaze said:

When you say "all of them", who else besides Prince do you mean?

Just curious.

oh, sorry, I meant Prince had been falling out with all of the Revolution, not that Brownmark had been falling out will all of the Revolution!

Ah, ok, got it. wink

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #24 posted 08/04/21 5:25am

master

milesb said:

For the musicianship of his bands I hold up the 1984 Birthday Show, any soundboard Parade show, and the BBC 1993 mini concert as some of the best examples of his bands at the top of their game. I don't hear anything up to that level in anything post ONA tour. Not even during the O2 residency.


But it's all personal oppinions of course


This new Blu-ray wipes floor with all revolution shows. It is peak prince.like O2 but even better. Welcome 2 America was his best tour & I heard most of shows. Revolution were nothing special live. He had to b in spotlight all time as they not quite top level.
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Reply #25 posted 08/04/21 5:42am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

prince didnt want to be seen with old musicians.

you think he wanted to be playing with musicians that were also in their 50s and not looking as good as he did for his age?

nope.

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Reply #26 posted 08/04/21 5:48am

jaawwnn

master said:

milesb said:

For the musicianship of his bands I hold up the 1984 Birthday Show, any soundboard Parade show, and the BBC 1993 mini concert as some of the best examples of his bands at the top of their game. I don't hear anything up to that level in anything post ONA tour. Not even during the O2 residency.

But it's all personal oppinions of course

This new Blu-ray wipes floor with all revolution shows. It is peak prince.like O2 but even better. Welcome 2 America was his best tour & I heard most of shows. Revolution were nothing special live. He had to b in spotlight all time as they not quite top level.

lol dream on

You'll find a lot of Revolution haters on here but this is a pretty unique take.

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Reply #27 posted 08/04/21 5:52am

Vannormal

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

-

Do not agree.

Music is much more than perfectly trained musicians.

Skills don't have anything to do with 'the soul of chemistry' and/or (the commn emphathy as a band/friends'.

Perfect sounding music trough better skilled musicians, is what Prince's music lacked after The Revolution. Music that did not hit the charts nor the hearts of many others (like before).

Period. smile

Bash me.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #28 posted 08/04/21 6:42am

mrjj71

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince didnt want to be seen with old musicians.

you think he wanted to be playing with musicians that were also in their 50s and not looking as good as he did for his age?

nope.

Larry?

Maceo?

lol

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Reply #29 posted 08/04/21 6:43am

mrjj71

Vannormal said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

-

Do not agree.

Music is much more than perfectly trained musicians.

Skills don't have anything to do with 'the soul of chemistry' and/or (the commn emphathy as a band/friends'.

Perfect sounding music trough better skilled musicians, is what Prince's music lacked after The Revolution. Music that did not hit the charts nor the hearts of many others (like before).

Period. smile

Bash me.

-

Amen

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