FrankieCoco1 said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

udo said:

.

15?

Why?

SOTT SDE was 13xvinyl, so if all B-sides/extended versions are included for D&P that’s an extra 1 or 2 LPs. Think about 2 or 3 for the remastered album, 3 or 4 for B sides etc, 6 hopefully for Vault stuff, 2-4 for a live concert. It soon adds up.

.

Are we sure D&P has that much stuff?

udo said:

RODSERLING said:

udo said:

Are we sure D&P has that much stuff?

There is like 100 minutes of Gett Off remixes already lol. Many Cream remixes too. Many edits I think the Thunder Ballet will be logically included at the end of the unreleased stuff, such as the remix of Strange Relationship.

.

So OK, there is a lot of material.

What will the 'experts' from the entertainment industry say about the amount of discs we can afford this year?

I.e.: they might cut it down a bit, I fear...

udo said:

udo said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

udo said: SOTT SDE was 13xvinyl, so if all B-sides/extended versions are included for D&P that’s an extra 1 or 2 LPs. Think about 2 or 3 for the remastered album, 3 or 4 for B sides etc, 6 hopefully for Vault stuff, 2-4 for a live concert. It soon adds up.

.

Are we sure D&P has that much stuff?

last year there was a post somewhere (on here?) about how there's enough material for D&P to fill at least 8 CD's (and that was just outtakes, alternate versions and not live and remixes)

my guess is that with this one, as there is so much material they could use, they will not put all the maxi cd contents, and every single remix available. or the vault material will be slimmer, and they will keep the remixes. but i doubt that would get a particularly favourable critical response. will def be interesting to see what they do with this one.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I think I mentioned this before, but I recently (2020) got Diamonds & Pearls: Beginnings from an online friend. Mostly, WOW - so great to hear the stripped down versions! Hopefully something like this makes its way on the SDE.

On SOTT:SDE, there were a bunch of tracks (like Good Love, Crucial) that were not included because they had already been released on CD already. So, with that precedent, they may not choose to release the Gett Off or Cream EPs again. Would be nice if they did though.

I'm hoping for a decent price on this one though, not like SOTT:SDE.

how many versions of gett off will be included??? the released and unreleased versions total 10 -15 ???

Se7en said:

RODSERLING said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

There was some promotion of Stand Up B Stong in the last few days in social Media by the Estate/Sony, so still a little bit of things ticking over, e.g. on Twitter https://mobile.twitter.co...r%5Eauthor

The song is stuck at 52k views on YT, so what's the real effect of that "promotion"? I would have expected at least a decent video, for it to be broadcasted on tv. But I agree, that's my statement for weeks here, Sony obviously doesn't want to give up on W2A, and certainly doesn't want to cannibalize its sales neither. The album is still selling well, remarkably well chartwise. Since when Prince did a chartrun like that in the US or elsewhere? Musicology? And last but not least, the album is a serious contender for the big awards. All the ingredients are here : Prince is dead, rave reviews, talk about social amd racial issues, selling well... All these nominations cost money, amd if Sony invest on W2A on the awards race, then that is money that won't be invested in another album. And like I said, they could raise a lot of money by doing a tour with all the talents involved in W2A, or a tv special event. [Edited 9/2/21 4:19am]

-

Oh No !

Puhleazzze, let Prince's live music rest in peace or only on blu-ray.

Remember that horrible aweful ''4U:A Symphonic Celebration of Prince'' some years ago ??!

I've seen an NPG band live (some time ago), and it lacked just thàt what we all long for.

-

Vannormal said:

jfenster said:

RODSERLING said:

Se7en said:

I think I mentioned this before, but I recently (2020) got Diamonds & Pearls: Beginnings from an online friend. Mostly, WOW - so great to hear the stripped down versions! Hopefully something like this makes its way on the SDE.

On SOTT:SDE, there were a bunch of tracks (like Good Love, Crucial) that were not included because they had already been released on CD already. So, with that precedent, they may not choose to release the Gett Off or Cream EPs again. Would be nice if they did though.

I'm hoping for a decent price on this one though, not like SOTT:SDE.

Ok, so Crucial ( whose one version is on SOTT SDE by the way) and Good Love were never released as B- sides of SOTT singles. They were tracks from the Crystal Ball album, released in 1998 , and belonging to Sony. Every SDE included every b-sides, remixes, etc. Even every edits existing, even those which were in fact never released on singles. So of course, Gett Off remixes will all be there, for the pleasure of the LP maniacs. 2 or 3 Gett Off by sides of a 2/3 LP, that's a dream comes true.

The point I put in bold is unlikely to have anything to do with their ommission since, as you said:

.

Crucial, but also Crystal Ball -both songs from CB98- were on SOTT SDE, so we have here an argument that contradicts itself by essence.

.

Not to mention that there is also every reason to believe that Prince never obtained permission from WB to put any of his WB era songs on CB98 in the first place, let alone those (like Good Love) that weren't even vault material, but songs already released by WB. If anyone could have a claim on Good Love, it was WB not Sony.

.

I won't name names, but IIRC, this urban legend was started by one single person here, who were so attached to their theory that they were willing to use every possible fallacy to defend it at all costs (Why? I have no idea). Then the theory began to spread, until becoming common "knowledge". It's happened before with other fantastic Prince theories.

.

Not that it's important (who cares in the end), + contractual issues are sometimes crazily more complicated than we know, so we won't ever be sure of course. But it's never a good thing to allow false rumors to spread online.

.

And I agree with you that most (probably not all, unfortunately, but most) of these Cream and Gett Off mixes will find their way to the D&P SDE. The opposite would be quite surprising.

databank said:

Vannormal said:

RODSERLING said:

FrankieCoco1 said: The song is stuck at 52k views on YT, so what's the real effect of that "promotion"? I would have expected at least a decent video, for it to be broadcasted on tv. But I agree, that's my statement for weeks here, Sony obviously doesn't want to give up on W2A, and certainly doesn't want to cannibalize its sales neither. The album is still selling well, remarkably well chartwise. Since when Prince did a chartrun like that in the US or elsewhere? Musicology? And last but not least, the album is a serious contender for the big awards. All the ingredients are here : Prince is dead, rave reviews, talk about social amd racial issues, selling well... All these nominations cost money, amd if Sony invest on W2A on the awards race, then that is money that won't be invested in another album. And like I said, they could raise a lot of money by doing a tour with all the talents involved in W2A, or a tv special event. [Edited 9/2/21 4:19am]

-

Oh No !

Puhleazzze, let Prince's live music rest in peace or only on blu-ray.

Remember that horrible aweful ''4U:A Symphonic Celebration of Prince'' some years ago ??!

I've seen an NPG band live (some time ago), and it lacked just thàt what we all long for.

-

I saw the 4U concert here in Detroit. I thought it was done very well! My wife enjoyed it too.

But, if sales/turnout is any indicator of interest, then it was a bit of a dud. The small venue was easily 1/2 empty. In fact, we were instructed to all move forward by about one whole section.

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

The point I put in bold is unlikely to have anything to do with their ommission since, as you said:

.

Crucial, but also Crystal Ball -both songs from CB98- were on SOTT SDE, so we have here an argument that contradicts itself by essence.

.

Not to mention that there is also every reason to believe that Prince never obtained permission from WB to put any of his WB era songs on CB98 in the first place, let alone those (like Good Love) that weren't even vault material, but songs already released by WB. If anyone could have a claim on Good Love, it was WB not Sony.

.

I won't name names, but IIRC, this urban legend was started by one single person here, who were so attached to their theory that they were willing to use every possible fallacy to defend it at all costs (Why? I have no idea). Then the theory began to spread, until becoming common "knowledge". It's happened before with other fantastic Prince theories.

.

Not that it's important (who cares in the end), + contractual issues are sometimes crazily more complicated than we know, so we won't ever be sure of course. But it's never a good thing to allow false rumors to spread online.

.

And I agree with you that most (probably not all, unfortunately, but most) of these Cream and Gett Off mixes will find their way to the D&P SDE. The opposite would be quite surprising.

That's BS, the Crucial and Crystal Ball version on SOTT are not the same that the material released on the 1998 album. It s so obvious, I m amazed you never heard the differences between the versions. Hence your argumentory doesn't stand at all. [Edited 9/14/21 7:31am]

.

For one thing, please let's not be rude. I'm totally cool with you, I didn't mean to attack you and I don't care either way whether it was because of Sony or not: I just can't help pointing out an inconsistency when I see one.

.

Now, if you would please stop and think about it, you would see that there are quite a few problems with the reasoning you offer...

.

.

PROBLEM #1: THE LEGALITIES OF IT

.

As you know, both CB and Crucial are basically the same versions, i.e. they're technically remixes (and slight remixes at that), not complete rerecordings.

.

And before someone objects: yes, the lead vocals track is different on Crucial, but most remixes of any given song also contain tracks that aren't in the original version: that's the whole point of them (remixes would be quite boring if not for that). As for CB, it doesn't even contain any element that wasn't on the CB98 version, it's just a different mix of the same tracks + an edit.

.

If slightly remixing a song was enough to claim its masters "back", then every artist who's fighting for their masters or go to another label and want to rerelease past material would do it. I'm not aware of a single precedent in music history. If you know of any, however, I'd honestly be interested in knowing who and when.

.

So no: I don't believe it's that simple. If it was, Prince wouldn't even have had to fight for his masters in the first place, and he wouldn't either have had to toy with the notion of rerecording his whole catalogue as he once did: a simple tweak in the mix would have done the trick, and WB would have been powerless.

.

Besides, it's very dubious that Sony could have any legit claim over Good Love, unless its sountrack status made it revert to Prince/the Estate before the rest of the WB catalogue. If anyone was entitled to claim that song, it was WB, since they had it first (and they most likely turned a blind eye on Prince using it, alongside several other WB songs, in 1998).

.

Thus, I believe WB were allowed by Sony to use the songs, most likely because Sony didn't mind and both labels weren't gonna go into a fight over a trivial thing like this, with the Estate in the middle. Besides, didn't Howe even state that the two labels were planning to amicably collaborate over future SDE's regarding conflicting rights between remasters and vault material?

.

.

.

PROBLEM #2: THE REASONING ITSELF

But let us admit that there does exist a legal loophole that I'm not aware of, and that it is possible to reclaim a song by slightly altering it.

.

Then, let's go back to the specific issue at hand: one basic rule of logic is that a valid argument cannot defeat itself. But here, it totally does. Let us look in more details at the reasoning you offer:

.

Proposition A: WB wasn't legally able nor allowed to use any song on CB98 as such because of Sony;

Proposition B: WB was legally able to use any song on CB98 by slightly altering them, and Sony was powerless to prevent it;

Conclusion, part 1: WB was able to use CB and Crucial simply by altering them, and there was nothing Sony could do about it;

Conclusion, part 2: yet, WB wasn't able to use the BLBC soundtrack version of Good Love even though that one is a different version than the one on CB98 (not to mention the fact that they had it first);

Conclusion, part 3: and yet again, WB wasn't able to use Movie Star, Last Heart, Dream Factory, etc., in any form because Sony has them?

.

It doesn't take a PHD in philosophy to realize that the reasoning above contains several irreconciliable contradictions. The "different versions"/Sony argument simply doesn't stand unless you cherry pick the cases where it works, and ignore the cases where it doesn't. It makes no sense at all.

.

So what we are left with is:

.

Either (A) WB didn't need permission from Sony as long as they remixed the tracks, and Sony couldn't help it. Thus, only using 2 songs was an editorial decision and only that.

.

Or (B) WB needed and obtained permission from Sony to use the CB98 tracks in any form. Only using 2 songs was an editorial decision and only that.

.

Or (C) WB needed permission from Sony to use the CB98 tracks in any form. Sony gave permission for only 2 songs because they're nice, but not that nice. Independently of this, leaving Good Love out of it was still, most likely, an editorial decision.

.

.

On a sidenote, it reminds me of the reasoning problem I've read some people use about Duane some weeks ago.

.

They were basically saying:

Proposition A: Duane Tudahl obtains information by himself, and from working with the Estate.

Proposition B: Duane Tudahl will reveal information he obtained by himself, but he won't reveal the information he obtained while working with the Estate in his books.

Conclusion: Some information was withdrawn from the books that wouldn't have if Duane has refused to work with the Estate, which basically means:

If Duane Tudahl had not worked with the Estate, he could have revealed the information he learned while working with the Estate

.

.

.

But back to SOTT SDE, I don't know what happened, but it's most likely just an editorial decision. Another element that suggests this is that WB was perfectly capable of using Feel U Up and Joy In Repetition, since Sony had nothing to do with these 2 songs, but they chose not to because Prince had repurposed them to another project at a later date, as he'd done with the CB98 tracks.

.

I guess the reasoning there was that some fans and critics weren't gonna be happy if the "vault tracks" CD's contained too many alternate versions of previously released songs. Beyond the two CB98 songs, the outtakes CD's also contained quite a few other alternate versions of previously released tracks (ICNTTPOYM, Large Room, Dorothy Parker, Power Fantastic, Forever In My Life and two times Strange Relationship). Add to that the fact that there are also two versions of three of the brand new songs, and at some point, if you throw yet another six from CB98 in the mix, the "vault tracks" CD's would have become truly redundant even if each CB98 track was an alt. mix and not the exact CB98 version (using those as such would have been utterly absurd). So I guess it made sense to try and prioritize unreleased songs a little.

.

On these words, it doesn't really matter. What was upsetting with that other orger some months ago is that they pretended not to understand my reasoning (and I know from their posts that they aren't dumb like that, they perfectly understood) just for the sake of being right at all costs. If you choose to go that path, I will not reply. If, however, you offer any valid objection, I will of course gladly go on with the discussion

RODSERLING said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

my guess is that with this one, as there is so much material they could use, they will not put all the maxi cd contents, and every single remix available. or the vault material will be slimmer, and they will keep the remixes. but i doubt that would get a particularly favourable critical response. will def be interesting to see what they do with this one.

There s no problem for the remixes with the CD format. A CD cost 0.5$ to produce. That's the LP's the problem, and that causes everytime such a delay between the official announcement and the release.

-

Well i don't mind. I always prefered LPs over CDs.

And i'm patient.

We'll never get all of Prince's unreleased music in our life time.

And that's a fact- - though I hope i'm dead wrong.

-

No, serious, I don't need every remix on vinyl.

They easily these available through streams possible, or downloads.

Why not ?

Same goes for edit versions (or mono versions).

If can give us the fans a feel of getting something extra for free.

Something we don't need to pay for on a physical release.

At least that's my idea and opinion.

-

Vannormal said:

How about they shelve D&P for awhile and give us Around The World or Parade Deluxe sets....

That would be the wise move.

SquirrelMeat76 said:

This is what i know ...and this info is serious !

WBR has always rights on back catalogue & unreleased stuff 78-95 for Worlwide exeption for North America for distribution only !

For Unreleased stuff 78-95 Sony needs always agreements with WBR.

Sorry if u can't understand that because u saw/read few years back a wrong or not correct media statement about (incorrect ) info that 2021 will be the start that Sony recovers Rights on all the back catalogue (unreleased stuff included) from WBR except Motion Pictures ( Purple Rain/Parade/GB)!!

[Edited 9/16/21 1:58am]

love2thenines2003 said:

I am sure everyone is aware of global production issues impacting vinyl releases, so I sincerely hope that when this was all rumoured a couple of years ago, that someone actually planned in the production, otherwise it is unlikely to happen this year at all!

Fingers crossed someone had the foresight and did their job properly.

Interestingly the vinyl production companies are calling for labels to stop requesting coloured vinyl releases as these small runs are massively impacting and slowing down vinyl production.

So when we see pre-orders for a release having three different coloured vinyl versions, we know this is screwing with the release schedule for someone else.

darkroman said:

RODSERLING said:

Vannormal said:

-

Really ?

Sure about that ?

How the hell are they going to fill that ?

With what ?

All the EP's and remixes that we all have, and no one really cares about ?

I'll sure best talk for myself, without getting bashed here by deep D&P remixes lovers.

-

Hey, I don't think you're aware of it, but they did that with previous SDE. They put on vinyl live performances on 2/3 vinyls, when it s compleyely useless and cut the performance in 4 or 6 sides (!), losing completely the energy of the shows. They also wasted 2 vinyls for the edit version. While some of them were interesting ( real b- sides for instance), edits didn't deserved that. It s all for a cash-grab. They will do the same shit, sadly with D&P. 2 or 3 vinyls full of Gett Off remixes.

-

Live albums, released before the CD hype took off, were all split up that way.

They even shortened live performances to fit the vinyl format.

Nothing new here.

But I agree in the loss of energy.

I too think edit versions on vinyl are a waste to me, though there are quite some Prince fans out there who love it.

So I don't mind it that much. Everyone needs to be happy.

And I love to have my live albums on vinyl too.

A bit for everyone to be honest. That I understand by now.

-

if they really released al those remixes, it would just be stupid and embarassing.

be better if they did a box set, with those includes as maxi singles and then separate vault discs.

but then i guess they would have to include versions of all the singles.

argh the 90s is hard to compile.

they should just avoid all the maxi single content entirely.