Wolfie87 said:

thebanishedone said:

At least you got my point.I love Prince but on facebook,org and utub i have seen unrealistic adoration coming from fans .under the comment section of 1977 Instrumental Jazz Funk recording of Prince somebody wrote :i wonder how Prince would sound playing with Herbie Hancock.on the org there was a thread "The night Prince changed world of guitar" implaying that Prince changed the world of rock guitar solo with his playing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps.So all those Prince is amazing on the instruments he plays.He was very good ,maybe amazing at the way he presented himself but was he amazing on any instrument ?

Now you record and produce on your own, now you dance like a god in High Heels, now you use your voice from low to high only matched by Mariah Carey, now you pull out a blistering guitar solo while spinning, now you record Sign "O" The Times on your own, now you Lay down harmonies on Adore, now you move music forward without following trends, now you dip into any genre fearless. I can move on. What is your problem? Bait click topic and Troll topic at the same time. [Edited 4/4/21 16:51pm]

To say Prince vocals matched Mariah Carey's range is huge exaggeration imo.

Your right about much of the other stuff , Prince's creative output is nothing short of amazing and especially considering he did much of that recording,playing,writing by himself. There is no question the man deserves to be called great. But I do get where the OP is coming from.

Simply that there is probably lots of fans whom may not have been exposed to a good range of prolific guitar players and they say things like Prince was the best guitar player in the world etc.

I think its possible or should be possible to have a realistic discussion about how good was he on individual instruments. I get the impression from the beginning the marketing was to portay him as multi musician genius prodigy. There is some truth in him being a musical genius ... but I also think there is hype about him being able to play all these instruments proficiently. I think he was able to play enough to lay down parts on his songs and have that sound good. But the idea that he was

able to play 27 or whatever instuments proficiently has been hyped BS. He probably played around 3 to 4 instruments quite well. But besides from keyboard/synth horns I dodnt think he played sax or trumpet or all these other instruments. He mainly played guitar , piano/keys/synth, bass and drums ... many musicians in bands can play all those instruments.

[Edited 4/17/21 17:15pm]

[Edited 4/17/21 17:17pm]

oscarchristio777 said:

thebanishedone said:

oscarchristio777 said:

Im not necessarily disagreeing.

I think Prince was an awesome musician especially in terms of creativity - songwriting.

But I think its quite likely hehas been overrated.

I am interested to ask why he has been so overratted with even people such as Eric Clapton giving him high praise as a guitarist.

Eric Clapton said that Prince is a genius,he never said anything about his guitar playing.Prince was not overrated by general public.he is overrated by some of his fans

I heard someone asked Eric what its like to be the best guitarist and apparently Eric said ask Prince.

oscarchristio777 said:

oscarchristio777 said:

thebanishedone said:

oscarchristio777 said:

To say Prince vocals matched Mariah Carey's range is huge exaggeration imo.

Your right about much of the other stuff , Prince's creative output is nothing short of amazing and especially considering he did much of that recording,playing,writing by himself. There is no question the man deserves to be called great. But I do get where the OP is coming from.

Simply that there is probably lots of fans whom may not have been exposed to a good range of prolific guitar players and they say things like Prince was the best guitar player in the world etc.

I think its possible or should be possible to have a realistic discussion about how good was he on individual instruments. I get the impression from the beginning the marketing was to portay him as multi musician genius prodigy. There is some truth in him being a musical genius ... but I also think there is hype about him being able to play all these instruments proficiently. I think he was able to play enough to lay down parts on his songs and have that sound good. But the idea that he was

able to play 27 or whatever instuments proficiently has been hyped BS. He probably played around 3 to 4 instruments quite well. But besides from keyboard/synth horns I dodnt think he played sax or trumpet or all these other instruments. He mainly played guitar , piano/keys/synth, bass and drums ... many musicians in bands can play all those instruments.

[Edited 4/17/21 17:15pm]

[Edited 4/17/21 17:17pm]

I'm glad you understand me.All that exaggeration like Prince went where no other musician went before.lol .Prince was great but his greatness is more about his presentation.those who think that Prince had amazing technique on guitar or piano just show that they don't listen to other musicians except Prince.

Yeh Prince guitar playing and (other instruments) has a lot of personality and charisma , he certainly brings a certain feel and is very entertaining in his delivery. I agree that outside of peoples subjective inclinations he is not the greatest guitarist ever . I like his playing but there are many players that outshine him. Ive been a Prince fan since 1982 ... I was 12 yo , so Im no new comer to his music and I luv his music , he is one of my favourite artists. I too at times in past have been guilty of in some ways overrating him

as a guitar player. In any case to be fair there isnt a lot to take away from him. Very few people could achieve what he has overall in his creativity and how much of himself he put into it.

But I agree that he was not necessarily a musical pioneer in terms of instruments he played. He may have been a pioneer in some ways , as you said how he recorded things and how he wrote things. But he didnt pioneer the guitar in the way Hendrix and EVH did. He merged his influences Sly,Jimi,JB, took other bits and pieces Punk,HardRock etc merged all that together and then added to it with his own nuances and recording style. So he kind of added to music he brought in something extra being the styles he was inspired by and his own thing. But he didnt really pioneer any of the instruments he played other than as you said the Linn drum which he showed could be used in ways people hadnt really explored.

[Edited 4/18/21 0:24am]

[Edited 4/18/21 0:24am]

[Edited 4/18/21 0:26am]

oscarchristio777 said:

thebanishedone said:

oscarchristio777 said: I'm glad you understand me.All that exaggeration like Prince went where no other musician went before.lol .Prince was great but his greatness is more about his presentation.those who think that Prince had amazing technique on guitar or piano just show that they don't listen to other musicians except Prince.

Yeh Prince guitar playing and (other instruments) has a lot of personality and charisma , he certainly brings a certain feel and is very entertaining in his delivery. I agree that outside of peoples subjective inclinations he is not the greatest guitarist ever . I like his playing but there are many players that outshine him. Ive been a Prince fan since 1982 ... I was 12 yo , so Im no new comer to his music and I luv his music , he is one of my favourite artists. I too at times in past have been guilty of in some ways overrating him

as a guitar player. In any case to be fair there isnt a lot to take away from him. Very few people could achieve what he has overall in his creativity and how much of himself he put into it.

But I agree that he was not necessarily a musical pioneer in terms of instruments he played. He may have been a pioneer in some ways , as you said how he recorded things and how he wrote things. But he didnt pioneer the guitar in the way Hendrix and EVH did. He merged his influences Sly,Jimi,JB, took other bits and pieces Punk,HardRock etc merged all that together and then added to it with his own nuances and recording style. So he kind of added to music he brought in something extra being the styles he was inspired by and his own thing. But he didnt really pioneer any of the instruments he played other than as you said the Linn drum which he showed could be used in ways people hadnt really explored.

[Edited 4/18/21 0:24am]

[Edited 4/18/21 0:24am]

[Edited 4/18/21 0:26am]

100% so yap he did push the bounderies of 1 instrument linn drum.Prince was Hendrix of linn.regarding guitar,bass,drums,keys he was more concerned of using those instruments as a part of his presentation than he was about sonic possibilities of the instrument.

i think trying to evaluate musicians like this is a bit silly, BUT, while prince was obviously really brilliant as a musician, he wouldnt be able to touch most jazz or classical players, and i think even he would say that. theres also many guitarists technically more proficient than him. but what he did have was a sound. he had a particular guitar tone that you recognise. can i recognise him on other instruments though? prob not, other than the linn drum machine. prince was a great musician, that goes without saying, but his main task, wasnt really to be hendrix, elvin jones, or anyone else deemed the best on their instrument, he just wanted to use those skills to write great songs. he was a songwriter first, musician second. obv in the 90s and later he was really intent on showing how good a musician he could be, but his most proficient skill was as a songwriter and performer, not a musician, even though he was a very good one.

thebanishedone said:

I'm glad you understand me.All that exaggeration like Prince went where no other musician went before.lol .Prince was great but his greatness is more about his presentation.those who think that Prince had amazing technique on guitar or piano just show that they don't listen to other musicians except Prince.

But(in counting all his musical abilities) in some ways didn't he? Also Prince didn't get the praise that he got because of faulty reasoning amongst the masses. The man really was part of a small group of musicians to break the mold. Very few musicians actually do go where others haven't gone before. Among some of the more popular ones, who really has? Musicianship wise, did Bowie? What about Bob Dylan? Or what about Lennon, McCartney or Michael Jackson?? Or Madonna? And, some people think that Jazz(Jazz players) can be boring as shit. And others think Jimi Hendrix was a sloppy player. So go figure.

So, yes, Prince wasn't the greatest musician ever. And, no, for the majority of the people who listen to Prince's music, he wasn't underrated(i meant to say overrated). Can that be the consensus??


Case closed

[Edited 4/19/21 3:09am]

MoodyBlumes said:

thebanishedone said:

Nobody says Prince is a hack,you know Prince is still in my top 5 best guitar players,but what attracts me is his passion,dedication and believeing in what he played.it's not because of amazing guitar technique whiche he didn't have.point of my topic was Prince overrated bu some of fans regarding limits of what he can do as a musician.and what i see you mixing with a musician is vision.Prince had a strong vision and he was pushing his musicians beyond what they were able to do,but that means his vision was strong. as a musician he is second best to me in pop.even though i love Prince more i think Stevie's music in his prime was more sophisticated/

Of course Prince had amazing guitar technique. People who think Picasso can't paint are not knowledgeable about art. At least have some interest in the music you are referencing -- the truth is that jazz musicians are a dime a dozen; classical ones too... I played classical piano for years.

-

You're right.

-

https://mymodernmet.com/picasso-early-work/

-

Here's some of the young Pablo Picasso's work.

Yep... he surely can paint... and he was only 15 years old when he painted this :

-

Vannormal said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Of course Prince had amazing guitar technique. People who think Picasso can't paint are not knowledgeable about art. At least have some interest in the music you are referencing -- the truth is that jazz musicians are a dime a dozen; classical ones too... I played classical piano for years.

-

You're right.

-

https://mymodernmet.com/picasso-early-work/

-

Here's some of the young Pablo Picasso's work.

Yep... he surely can paint... and he was only 15 years old when he painted this :

-

Wow,amazing

im no jazz expert, but the reason IMO that people always use jazz musicians as a comparison is that they are technically, the most proficient. but its also why a lot of jazz is hard to listen to and sometimes not that interesting unless you also know about the techniques, and about music theory, to see what they are doing. its also easier to compare (from my laymans POV) than whether something is good due to how it elicits and provokes emotion (like prince), which is much harder and more subjective to compare.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im no jazz expert, but the reason IMO that people always use jazz musicians as a comparison is that they are technically, the most proficient. but its also why a lot of jazz is hard to listen to and sometimes not that interesting unless you also know about the techniques, and about music theory, to see what they are doing. its also easier to compare (from my laymans POV) than whether something is good due to how it elicits and provokes emotion (like prince), which is much harder and more subjective to compare.

Yes. That reminds me of book I read in library that referred to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue as music that was more for the head. Colder but denser. And that was contrasted with some classical piece that was thought to evoke more emotion.

.

[Edited 4/19/21 18:19pm]

Vannormal said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Of course Prince had amazing guitar technique. People who think Picasso can't paint are not knowledgeable about art. At least have some interest in the music you are referencing -- the truth is that jazz musicians are a dime a dozen; classical ones too... I played classical piano for years.

-

You're right.

-

https://mymodernmet.com/picasso-early-work/

-

Here's some of the young Pablo Picasso's work.

Yep... he surely can paint... and he was only 15 years old when he painted this :

-

Yes, he was amazing... love where he went with his craft, how he modernized the profession. His versatility was amazing. Deserves all the accolades he got.

fortuneandserendipity said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im no jazz expert, but the reason IMO that people always use jazz musicians as a comparison is that they are technically, the most proficient. but its also why a lot of jazz is hard to listen to and sometimes not that interesting unless you also know about the techniques, and about music theory, to see what they are doing. its also easier to compare (from my laymans POV) than whether something is good due to how it elicits and provokes emotion (like prince), which is much harder and more subjective to compare.

Yes. That reminds me of book I read in library that referred to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue as music that was more for the head. Colder but denser. And that was contrasted with some classical piece that was thought to evoke more emotion.

Have to disagree with that one... Kind of Blue is a beaut, also is the biggest selling jazz album of all time.

MoodyBlumes said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Yes. That reminds me of book I read in library that referred to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue as music that was more for the head. Colder but denser. And that was contrasted with some classical piece that was thought to evoke more emotion.

Have to disagree with that one... Kind of Blue is a beaut, also is the biggest selling jazz album of all time.

Agreed. And if they can use deep learning to colorize black and white film, then why not remove hiss from old recordings?

MoodyBlumes said:

Stevie Wonder: Prince 'Took Music to a Whole Other Place'

Stevie Wonder: Prince 'To...ling Stone

Prince’s music was so picturesque that even I could see it. I could see his boss Mr. McGee, who thought Prince was never going to be shit. I could see Old Man Johnson’s farm. I could feel that “Purple Rain” too. Prince’s songs were that vivid, the images were that strong. I think I related to the way Prince saw things because we both grew up in the Midwest, where we met all kinds of people and had a great spectrum from which to learn. We both grew up hearing blues, rock & roll, jazz and gospel, and found the value in it all.

.

If Michael was the King of Pop, Prince should be the Emperor. Prince fought for his artistic freedom. He didn’t allow anyone or anything to get in his way. By following his own path, Prince took music to a whole other place, like the Beatles did. He wanted to change the way things were, like Marvin Gaye did. When you do that, you have to be very sure of yourself.

.

That spirit that drove him gave us an incredible reservoir of music. He loved funk, so he really needed to know how to make things funky. He loved jazz, so he needed to break down what made things truly swing. If Prince wanted to talk about love and sex, he got really into that – deep. And he made us see and feel it all with him. In fact, I’m trying to figure out which child of mine was born because of listening to Prince.

Or you could say.

Prince - King of the Universe (sorta like an emperor)
Todd Rundgren - King of Soul
Frank Zappa - King of Rock

David Bowie - King of Glam
Bob Dylan - King of Folk
Michael Jackson - King of Self-Gratulation
Stevie Wonder - King of being Blind

PennyPurple said:

No, we did not.

Right on!

Empress said:

PennyPurple said:

No, we did not.

Right on!

Professor of Classical and Jazz PennyPurple a virtuoso pianist and guitarist gave his/her comment and why should anybody argue

masaba said:

I listen to a lot of music and understand Prince's limits instrumentally, and I disagree completely. The more you listen to music, the more you realize the most difficult thing to teach is writing and playing in a way that moves people. You can learn all the techniques in the world, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to make people laugh or smile or cry with your instrument. Prince was blessed with an incredible gift to be able to do that. A great analogy is in literature. Look at a book like Things Fall Apart, or the Ernest Hemingway's work. The language is simple and straight forward. But it's no less elegant and impactful than much more complicated works. You could learn every technique in the book and work on your craft for your whole life, but the chances of you being able to move people in the same way as the aforementioned simple prose is slim to none. Prince played his guitar exactly how he wanted to play it and it accomplished exactly what he wanted it to accomplish. And for that I believe he was a fantastic guitar player. He could play the shit out of that thing. But depends on what your looking for at the end of the day. Comparing Prince to John McLaughlin in an attempt to diminish Prince is a little ridiculous in my mind. There's no point to those comparisons. And also it's disrespectful to call him an average to below average pop guitarist. Not only is that meaningless nonsense, it's disrespectful to the legacy of P. Fuck outta here with that.

YOU SAID IT ALL

If you read what Alice Cooper and Stevie Wonder say about Prince's musicianship here - 25 Times Prince Crossed P...rince.com) - then maybe 'we' underrated him. Or we overrated him. Or maybe we all rate him slightly differently.

So many nice comments and some not so nice,those of you who think i want to dismiss Prince as a great guitar player u are wrong.what he didn't have on techniqual level he was compensating on emotional leval.So regarding his projection and emotion on guitar he was one of the best. this is my tribute to him from 2 days ago,and if u still think after seeing this https://easyupload.io/fb8wtt

that i don't love Prince than i don't know what else to say.i just wanted a normal discussion.thats all.

Technicality does not and will not ever equal great lol or better. It means you can read or memorize. Idk why people think this. I went to college. I have a degree. I learned more about life outside of the classroom than I did inside of it learning a lot of shit I was never going to use in real life.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince was a great musician but not exactly distinctive except as a guitar soloist. His gift was the sum of all those parts, not being a standout player on any one instrument. No shame in that. It was about forming an overall prince sound.

You're buggin. His rhythm playing is extremely distinctive. His solos from the 80's as well due to him being the only person with that guitar tone

tab32792 said:

Technicality does not and will not ever equal great lol or better. It means you can read or memorize. Idk why people think this. I went to college. I have a degree. I learned more about life outside of the classroom than I did inside of it learning a lot of shit I was never going to use in real life.

yes,doctor learns 2 operate in practice,but i can't agree techniquality don't matter after all Prince had good technique,fast picking,nice legato style,i'm always 4 emotional display but you need some technique and maybe u think what you have learned in school don't matter but i bet it does help you in certain situations after all music is science in a way.

Wolfie87 said:

thebanishedone said:

At least you got my point.I love Prince but on facebook,org and utub i have seen unrealistic adoration coming from fans .under the comment section of 1977 Instrumental Jazz Funk recording of Prince somebody wrote :i wonder how Prince would sound playing with Herbie Hancock.on the org there was a thread "The night Prince changed world of guitar" implaying that Prince changed the world of rock guitar solo with his playing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps.So all those Prince is amazing on the instruments he plays.He was very good ,maybe amazing at the way he presented himself but was he amazing on any instrument ?

Now you record and produce on your own, now you dance like a god in High Heels, now you use your voice from low to high only matched by Mariah Carey, now you pull out a blistering guitar solo while spinning, now you record Sign "O" The Times on your own, now you Lay down harmonies on Adore, now you move music forward without following trends, now you dip into any genre fearless. I can move on. What is your problem? Bait click topic and Troll topic at the same time. [Edited 4/4/21 16:51pm]

It has been a while since I last logged in to this site and I see that there's still a contingency that loves to trash Prince on his own fansite. Nothing seems to change around here. It's crazy that so many people come on a damn FAN SITE just to talk smack about the artist. I wish they would just make their own separate website and then post on there and leave the rest of us alone to appreciate Prince for the genius that he was.

SeventeenDayze said:

Wolfie87 said:

thebanishedone said: Now you record and produce on your own, now you dance like a god in High Heels, now you use your voice from low to high only matched by Mariah Carey, now you pull out a blistering guitar solo while spinning, now you record Sign "O" The Times on your own, now you Lay down harmonies on Adore, now you move music forward without following trends, now you dip into any genre fearless. I can move on. What is your problem? Bait click topic and Troll topic at the same time. [Edited 4/4/21 16:51pm]

It has been a while since I last logged in to this site and I see that there's still a contingency that loves to trash Prince on his own fansite. Nothing seems to change around here. It's crazy that so many people come on a damn FAN SITE just to talk smack about the artist. I wish they would just make their own separate website and then post on there and leave the rest of us alone to appreciate Prince for the genius that he was.

yeah man,i'm a troll and you are a nice guy ,so what such a nice guy is doing on this topic? spreading the gospel? yeah i trash Prince because i said he was great at prtesentation but his technique was not great as some people pretend it is.problem is with some of you obsesed fans who think that their obsession is more valid than any kind of objective criticism

that is the problem.in this discussion you will see that not a single person was negative ,but if for you somebody saying i like Prince but i can find you 100 better guitar players in the terms of technique.so you find that as insult.just because he was not uber techniqual it don't dismiss his appeal in general.but i guess trying to explain to some of you guys is mission impossible

oscarchristio777 said:

To say Prince vocals matched Mariah Carey's range is huge exaggeration imo.

You can say that again.

Prince's vocal versatility is eons away from Carey's squeaked hi C's.