thebanishedone said:

heartpeacesheart said:

thebanishedone said:

u don't know me,ok.Prince is my favourite guitar players since i was a kid.ok? i learned to play a lot of stuff Prince played.if i think he sucks i would never do thAT ok.

Again my point is some of us(Prince fans) have a very unrealistic picture about what Prince could do and where he could go in the world of music.

In order to go somewhere where you haven't been before you need to invest a lot of work.

One day you decide you gonna play more jazzier funk than usual and you just hop on it.

regarding The Return To Forever most of their stuff was actually in 3/4 and after the first 2 albums that were latin jazz ,with the addition of guitar player i think they become a rock band that played with the intellect of jazz musicians.

thebanishedone I think you and fortuneserendipity should go have lunch together. i probably spelled that name wrong.

I don't know what you want to say that and i will repeat again Prince was a genius .But his genius was being a fearless music pioneer who changed the soundscapses of popular music. He was one of the first musicians to place drums in the front of the mix.he was one of the first musicians to have a hit rock song with drum machine (Little Red Corvette) one of the first to stripp bass from his music.

Before Prince you didn't have clap and kick sounds that high in the mix.

Prince was also very successful in having hit songs that maybe now we take for granted but they were very unusual in terms of sound.he even had problems getting those songs out.Kiss is a demo,where's the reverb ,where's the bass,we can't release that.-one WB suit said to Prince.you know the rest right?

Prince had been told by a young hot shot WB suite that he will never have another hit,the very next day Prince brought The Most Beautiful Girl.

Alon with David Bowie he was 1 of the pioneer of internet music sales.

He was 1 of the first to fuse punk and funk.he was one of the first to mix sounds of Europe with funk(Parade)

Prince was the only artist beside Elvis,Sinatra and Sammy Davies jr to have a number 1 song ,film and album at the same time. So what he achived was amazing. But in my opinion he took some of the music excursions for granted. his fusion projects and classical music projects were under prepared.He was not a grounbreaking instrumentalist on the instruments he played but he was an inspiration to many that you can do those things if u work hard. Point of these thread is not to dismiss any of Prince acomplishments ,it was more about are some people having unrealistic opinions about how good Prince was as a musician.ok? So i'm tired explaining.i see a lot of great responses,but i see those who attack me just because in reality the only listen to Prince music,all other music sucks and if you say hey there were better players than Prince they will respond to me"nooo (sound of crying) it's not true,you are terrible you should die.You can't say that about Prince,don't you know when Prince had a piss he was pissing true gold and he been to places in music no other mortals ever been ok? so don't dare to say Prince was not the best ever guitar,piano,bass and drums player.

thebanishedone said:

There are elements of fusion in both C-Note and NEWS and Prince and the band could definitely play. But did they achieve the same level as the first few minutes here?!?!

Is this some real fusion or wat peeps?

Remember fusion was probably the most complex genre Prince tried, which reminds me to check out 'junk music'. P could play anything but could he play anything that complex ? ^^

thebanishedone said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

There are elements of fusion in both C-Note and NEWS and Prince and the band could definitely play. But did they achieve the same level as the first few minutes here?!?!

Is this some real fusion or wat peeps?

Remember fusion was probably the most complex genre Prince tried, which reminds me to check out 'junk music'. P could play anything but could he play anything that complex ? ^^

thank u 4 your link,i did enjoy listening to it but it's not fusion.what you posted is progressive rock.Fusion is more jazz discover under the mask of rock something like this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jOYscEN6Qc

you see lots of melody and passion going on there

or this ,this kind of vibe Prince was going for on Xpectations,but the first big problem was chosing Vanesa Mae as a violin player.imagine if Prince hired this guy from this video to play vioin on Xpectations,not only would we have epic violin parts,he would inspire Prince as well:

https://www.youtube.com/w...jcYw2QTPzM

in the second clip musicians are exausting all the possibilities of simple rock progression ,playing jazz solos.

or this kind of spacey fusion it's Sugarfoot from Ohio Players on vocals ,with Herbie on synths and drum programming and Bootsy playing amazing bass line :

https://www.youtube.com/w...hZXzGyk-vg

this crazy mix of jazz with drum machines and synths is very interesting to me,take a listen at this :

https://www.youtube.com/w...ztVYxdraJA

some have criticized Chic Corea for using fm synth on 1986 debut of his electric band but i actually think he sounded great with fm synths https://www.youtube.com/w...mp;index=7

[Edited 4/8/21 12:43pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

thebanishedone said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

There are elements of fusion in both C-Note and NEWS and Prince and the band could definitely play. But did they achieve the same level as the first few minutes here?!?!

Is this some real fusion or wat peeps?

Remember fusion was probably the most complex genre Prince tried, which reminds me to check out 'junk music'. P could play anything but could he play anything that complex ? ^^

thank u 4 your link,i did enjoy listening to it but it's not fusion.what you posted is progressive rock.Fusion is more jazz discover under the mask of rock something like this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jOYscEN6Qc

you see lots of melody and passion going on there

or this ,this kind of vibe Prince was going for on Xpectations,but the first big problem was chosing Vanesa Mae as a violin player.imagine if Prince hired this guy from this video to play vioin on Xpectations,not only would we have epic violin parts,he would inspire Prince as well:

https://www.youtube.com/w...jcYw2QTPzM

in the second clip musicians are exausting all the possibilities of simple rock progression ,playing jazz solos.

or this kind of spacey fusion it's Sugarfoot from Ohio Players on vocals ,with Herbie on synths and drum programming and Bootsy playing amazing bass line :

https://www.youtube.com/w...hZXzGyk-vg

this crazy mix of jazz with drum machines and synths is very interesting to me,take a listen at this :

https://www.youtube.com/w...ztVYxdraJA

some have criticized Chic Corea for using fm synth on 1986 debut of his electric band but i actually think he sounded great with fm synths https://www.youtube.com/w...mp;index=7

[Edited 4/8/21 12:43pm]

I think your links demonstrate fusion is not just one specific style, rather an amalgam of jazz and rock to varying degrees. Or listen to Miles Davis's In a Silent Way. Laid back, slow groove, and yet thought to be fusion. Other fusion is more funky, where P went with it. Still other fusion is more rock driven like Zappa's Rollo, Echidna's Arf, some of the stuff on The Grand Wazoo. Oh and as for prog rock, One Size Fits All is prog rock. And that was Zappa's best album imo.

Here's a good breakdown of a famous guitar solo by Prince:

https://www.youtube.com/w...b4bKE2Ta_Y

ufoclub said:

Here's a good breakdown of a famous guitar solo by Prince:

https://www.youtube.com/w...b4bKE2Ta_Y

Well i can tell you one thing ,the guy from the clip said it's strange that Prince played(pointing at f sharp note on b string of guitar and he mentions a minor scale.

The descending harmonies allowed Prince to play A dorian scale ,it's not A Minor scale so this guy

don't know some basic things but i did enjoy his enthusiasm p.s. guy have 300.000 followers and yet he don't know scales lol

[Edited 4/9/21 15:28pm]

thebanishedone said:

ufoclub said:

Here's a good breakdown of a famous guitar solo by Prince:

https://www.youtube.com/w...b4bKE2Ta_Y

Well i can tell you one thing ,the guy from the clip said it's strange that Prince played(pointing at f sharp note on b string of guitar and he mentions a minor scale.

The descending harmonies allowed Prince to play A dorian scale ,it's not A Minor scale so this guy

don't know some basic things but i did enjoy his enthusiasm p.s. guy have 300.000 followers and yet he don't know scales lol

[Edited 4/9/21 15:28pm]

Ah, well I just liked his piece by piece re-creation. I don't know about scales myself!

god no way

That man made magic with his hands

Margot said:

Just a reminder...Prince can be over-idealized by some which makes conversation that is not worshipful risky.

You ought to tell Eddie Kramer, Jimi Hendrix' long time producer:

.

"The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix. I feel so saddened and dumbstruck by the loss of such an enormous talent. I wish I had had the opportunity to work with him. Sadly, this was not to be. #RIPPrince."

.

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: "The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary (1/3) | 📷: @GettyImages https://t.co/BwwC27ce63" / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

[Edited 4/9/21 23:47pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

Just a reminder...Prince can be over-idealized by some which makes conversation that is not worshipful risky.

You ought to tell Eddie Kramer, Jimi Hendrix' long time producer:

.

"The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix. I feel so saddened and dumbstruck by the loss of such an enormous talent. I wish I had had the opportunity to work with him. Sadly, this was not to be. #RIPPrince."

.

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: "The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary (1/3) | 📷: @GettyImages https://t.co/BwwC27ce63" / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

[Edited 4/9/21 23:47pm]

You left out my other comment. Attach to someone else

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

You ought to tell Eddie Kramer, Jimi Hendrix' long time producer:

.

"The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix. I feel so saddened and dumbstruck by the loss of such an enormous talent. I wish I had had the opportunity to work with him. Sadly, this was not to be. #RIPPrince."

.

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: "The world has lost yet another global superstar. In my mind, #Prince was the contemporary (1/3) | 📷: @GettyImages https://t.co/BwwC27ce63" / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

Eddie Kramer on Twitter: ... / Twitter

[Edited 4/9/21 23:47pm]

You left out my other comment. Attach to someone else

but #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix can be interpretated in many ways. was he a successor regarding the studio inovation or guitar? I think Prince was Jimi Hendrix of Linn Lm1 drum machine.

i think he pushed the bounderies of linn.

thebanishedone said:

Margot said:

You left out my other comment. Attach to someone else

but #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix can be interpretated in many ways. was he a successor regarding the studio inovation or guitar? I think Prince was Jimi Hendrix of Linn Lm1 drum machine.

i think he pushed the bounderies of linn.

What's the difference when it comes to Prince?
Can't you accept how unbelievably good he is
as a guitar player AND a guitar FX designer?

This is only the technical aspect.
Prince never let his technical qualities get in the way
of musical expression, hence the admiration
all musicians have for him.

The expression comes first,
"who cares if these are synth presets".
If the song is good, it doesn't matter.

Now some of the many musical expressions
Prince was able to produce may or may not be your cup of tea,
but if you really know Prince in and out,
you can only agree with Kramer's statement.

Prince could pick up Jimi's flame for one tune,
and then come back to being Prince.

Except Jimi rarely (never?) sounded that Sexy.
Prince's lust can't be denied, it's in every hand slide return.

bonatoc said:

thebanishedone said:

but #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix can be interpretated in many ways. was he a successor regarding the studio inovation or guitar? I think Prince was Jimi Hendrix of Linn Lm1 drum machine.

i think he pushed the bounderies of linn.

What's the difference when it comes to Prince?
Can't you accept how unbelievably good he is
as a guitar player AND a guitar FX designer?

This is only the technical aspect.
Prince never let his technical qualities get in the way
of musical expression, hence the admiration
all musicians have for him.

The expression comes first,
"who cares if these are synth presets".
If the song is good, it doesn't matter.

Now some of the many musical expressions
Prince was able to produce may or may not be your cup of tea,
but if you really know Prince in and out,
you can only agree with Kramer's statement.

Prince could pick up Jimi's flame for one tune,
and then come back to being Prince.

Except Jimi rarely (never?) sounded that Sexy.
Prince's lust can't be denied, it's in every hand slide return.

i accept it a long time ago

P is underrated commercially over his whole career and critically, over late career. When was the last time an album in the symbol/post symbol era made it to one of the greatest 50 albums of past year?

A lot of his music is probably too abstract for people to get, haha says slightly conceited me. But it's all about the chord changes, modulations. That's what grabs me. They're all over the place in his music. Big ones, subtle ones - they provide the hooks. And yes, maybe when they're more subtle they escape notice. I call them 'the eyebrows'. Because you raise your eyebrows when you hear them, or can do

I don't really know music theory but 2 ones I heard recently that wowed me: Oingo boingo's Gratitude 1:08 start of chorus. And Kraftwerk's Europe Endless, 2:17 in.

So why is P more multi genre than maybe anyone else? Because he knows more tricks. There's a science to it that is too scientific for me. But those hooks and tonal phrasing. Which he seems capable of pulling off in his sleep.

If you deconstruct it, as in analyse it in its components parts, as would a musicologist, you take some of the mystique and fun out of it, that not the case? A bit like when you really like a song, can't immediately discern all the lyrics, but then this corny lyric to the best part of the song emerges, and then you don't like that part of the song as much.

What's wrong with his instrumental/jazz efforts?

Elton John:

"He was probably the greatest musician I've seen live on stage, without question... We've all knelt at his feet because if you're a real musician, you know quality when you see it."

Elton John - Prince Dedic... - YouTube

.

[Edited 4/10/21 18:15pm]

thebanishedone said:

Margot said:

You left out my other comment. Attach to someone else

but #Prince was the contemporary successor to #Hendrix can be interpretated in many ways. was he a successor regarding the studio inovation or guitar? I think Prince was Jimi Hendrix of Linn Lm1 drum machine.

i think he pushed the bounderies of linn.

Kramer's twitter post, which I've linked to, shows a picture of Prince with his guitar.

[Edited 4/10/21 17:44pm]

thebanishedone said:

I was one of the most annoying orgers making countless threads about how great Prince is on guitar.I thought those who don't share my view just don't get it.but things change and as i started paying more attention to some more proficient musicians i came to a realisation that Prince as a musician is way too overrated.i see people saying :imagine Prince and Herbie Hancock playing together or i see a topic here "the day Prince changed the world of electric guitar.Prince did push the envelope in the realm of pop music but every attempt he did outside of pop wss far from good.Prince's jazz projects are like kindergarden jazx compared to Mahavishnu Orchestra or Return To Forever.Prince is a good rhythm guitar player but as a soloist his playing is average or even bellow.his piano playing is overhyped and in reality i"ve seen him playing live piano parts that wete under rehearsed.I love Prince and his music but it's hard for me to pretend that he is amazing on guitar bass piano and drums when he is just average even to pop music standards. [Edited 4/3/21 17:23pm]

I agree with one thing and that is about being the type of annoying orgers that drove many of us away from the org.

Margot said:

I think you are comparing Prince who played numerous instuments w/ folks who played one.

.
- Exactly. Of course, Prince was not as important to guitar as Jimi, or on bass as Jaco, but he played several instruments very well. And jazz is a very complex music indeed. Most rock/funk players aren´t able to play in a jazz band.

epronk said:

John Mayer:

"When you can hear the thousands of hours, on top of incredible gifts, and just think of how good at somebody could be at their instrument. And not just one instrument, all of it. For me and my friends and the rest of the world growing up in the 80s and 90s learning how to play music, what a great role model as a musician to look up to people who were so good at what they did that they could wear whatever they wanted to, they could make whatever decisions they wanted to, and you trusted that it was a function of the talent. He's the best pop musician that ever lived. And at a time when you were either an artist or an entertainer, to be both, is unbelievable and very very few people do it - that is a man who did it perfectly as far as I'm concerned.

John Mayer Calls Prince t...s (go.com)

FunkJam said:

What's wrong with his instrumental/jazz efforts?

Well if you see his fusion work as funk rock jamming than it's nothing wrong.

But i don't think Prince was seeing it as just funk rock jamming.

Problem is jazz fusion is a very sophisticated music.it's a jazz music mixed with rock flavour .

I have a feeling that Prince approuch it like anything else he does.ok now we are making a jazz fusion record,boom there it is. except a few melodies that are repeating as a guide there is no really thoughtful development.

I'm not saying Prince was not able to make a half decent fusion record.it's just it needed more time than he was willing to spend on a project.

listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jOYscEN6Qc

this composition you can play on piano.there is a bit of improvisation but actually it's a very well crafted composition.