love2thenines2003 said:

fredmagnus said:

Why wouldn't you guys just admit he most likely destroyed the tape for the same reasons he erased the multitracks ?

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see the logic of keeping the cassette while erasing the master.

The reason I've brought up this interview is because a lot of fans are under the impression that Prince erased the only known copy to exist. By confirming that a cassette of the rough mix was indeed made (and wasn't just a slip of the tongue on Susan's part), coupled with the fact that she never saw Prince destroy it, now casts a vague shadow of doubt as to whether or not the song was permanently destroyed.

I personally believe it's gone for good and accepted that long ago. But the truth is, now none of us know for certain, although I'm not holding my breath.

LoveGalore said:

love2thenines2003 said:

I don't remember Neversin implied such thing .....maybe about the 1 st piano jam demo with Wally Melody but not about this famous 1 st Wally take mentionned several times by Susan thru the years ....So...there are much more speculations than solid mentions about this famous 1st take on tape saved as a miracle ....Or ?????

[Edited 10/7/20 4:04am]

When 23 said someone gave him Wally #1 as a reward for the reviews, I said not bloody likely, and Neversin said "Why?" I really doubt someone who never minces words and is pretty direct in all his communication on this topic would say that without reason given he's probably aware of what that implies.

Despite what he said, i'm sure he has no clue at all so don't hold your breath.

VaultCurator said:

fredmagnus said:

Why wouldn't you guys just admit he most likely destroyed the tape for the same reasons he erased the multitracks ?

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see the logic of keeping the cassette while erasing the master.

The reason I've brought up this interview is because a lot of fans are under the impression that Prince erased the only known copy to exist. By confirming that a cassette of the rough mix was indeed made (and wasn't just a slip of the tongue on Susan's part), coupled with the fact that she never saw Prince destroy it, now casts a vague shadow of doubt as to whether or not the song was permanently destroyed.

I personally believe it's gone for good and accepted that long ago. But the truth is, now none of us know for certain, although I'm not holding my breath.

.

It doesn't really make any sense any way you look at it. Why erase a song you've been working on all night? Why make a cassette copy of the song if you're going to destroy it anyway? I mean: nothing in that story sounds particularly rational. It was a way for Prince to release all those emotions he was keeping in himself.

.

My conclusion from all I've read and heard about the topic so far is: we don't know if that cassette copy was destroyed right after Susan Rogers left; we don't know if it was destroyed later ; we don't know if it was given to somebody; we don't know if it still exists. We simply don't know. Now, whether you want to believe/hope it still exists or not is another matter. I'm not holding my breath either.

LoveGalore said:

love2thenines2003 said:

I don't remember Neversin implied such thing .....maybe about the 1 st piano jam demo with Wally Melody but not about this famous 1 st Wally take mentionned several times by Susan thru the years ....So...there are much more speculations than solid mentions about this famous 1st take on tape saved as a miracle ....Or ?????

[Edited 10/7/20 4:04am]

When 23 said someone gave him Wally #1 as a reward for the reviews, I said not bloody likely, and Neversin said "Why?" I really doubt someone who never minces words and is pretty direct in all his communication on this topic would say that without reason given he's probably aware of what that implies.

Of Course there are so much things that us fans don't know about some specific things in the vault even we thought the contrary graved in stone ...of course Neversin is the right person who knows a lot of things we don't but Neversin got his own humour sometimes that we can call SARCASM because he was unfortunately so attacked by some (cowards) orgers here.... so sometimes we imagine some things just based maybe on an empty sarcastic comment !

[Edited 10/7/20 4:30am]

[Edited 10/7/20 4:34am]

olb99 said:

VaultCurator said:

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see the logic of keeping the cassette while erasing the master.

The reason I've brought up this interview is because a lot of fans are under the impression that Prince erased the only known copy to exist. By confirming that a cassette of the rough mix was indeed made (and wasn't just a slip of the tongue on Susan's part), coupled with the fact that she never saw Prince destroy it, now casts a vague shadow of doubt as to whether or not the song was permanently destroyed.

I personally believe it's gone for good and accepted that long ago. But the truth is, now none of us know for certain, although I'm not holding my breath.

.

It doesn't really make any sense any way you look at it. Why erase a song you've been working on all night? Why make a cassette copy of the song if you're going to destroy it anyway? I mean: nothing in that story sounds particularly rational. It was a way for Prince to release all those emotions he was keeping in himself.

.

My conclusion from all I've read and heard about the topic so far is: we don't know if that cassette copy was destroyed right after Susan Rogers left; we don't know if it was destroyed later ; we don't know if it was given to somebody; we don't know if it still exists. We simply don't know. Now, whether you want to believe/hope it still exists or not is another matter. I'm not holding my breath either.

I'm fully agree !!!

LoveGalore said:

love2thenines2003 said:

I don't remember Neversin implied such thing .....maybe about the 1 st piano jam demo with Wally Melody but not about this famous 1 st Wally take mentionned several times by Susan thru the years ....So...there are much more speculations than solid mentions about this famous 1st take on tape saved as a miracle ....Or ?????

[Edited 10/7/20 4:04am]

When 23 said someone gave him Wally #1 as a reward for the reviews, I said not bloody likely, and Neversin said "Why?" I really doubt someone who never minces words and is pretty direct in all his communication on this topic would say that without reason given he's probably aware of what that implies.

Just for reference: https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=6 (message #151).

.

I wouldn't read too much in his reply, though. He was pissed off.

[Edited 10/7/20 4:38am]

olb99 said:

LoveGalore said:

love2thenines2003 said: When 23 said someone gave him Wally #1 as a reward for the reviews, I said not bloody likely, and Neversin said "Why?" I really doubt someone who never minces words and is pretty direct in all his communication on this topic would say that without reason given he's probably aware of what that implies.

Just for reference: https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=6 (message #151).

.

I wouldn't read too much in his reply, though. He was pissed off.

the link is out of order ?

love2thenines2003 said:

olb99 said:

Just for reference: https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=6 (message #151).

.

I wouldn't read too much in his reply, though. He was pissed off.

the link is out of order ?

Yeah, it's that 20-year old bug where links to prince.org don't work. It should work now.

love2thenines2003 said:

olb99 said:

Just for reference: https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=6 (message #151).

.

I wouldn't read too much in his reply, though. He was pissed off.

the link is out of order ?

Copy and paste this...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464308?&pg=6

VaultCurator said:

love2thenines2003 said:

the link is out of order ?

Copy and paste this...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464308?&pg=6

Sarcasm from Neversin?

fredmagnus said:

LoveGalore said:

love2thenines2003 said: When 23 said someone gave him Wally #1 as a reward for the reviews, I said not bloody likely, and Neversin said "Why?" I really doubt someone who never minces words and is pretty direct in all his communication on this topic would say that without reason given he's probably aware of what that implies.

Despite what he said, i'm sure he has no clue at all so don't hold your breath.

I don;t know, he mentioned the paino demo a year (or even more to some) before people here knew it even existed. I don;t doubt he knows more about this.

olb99 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

the link is out of order ?

Yeah, it's that 20-year old bug where links to prince.org don't work. It should work now.

nope

JorisE73 said:

fredmagnus said:

Despite what he said, i'm sure he has no clue at all so don't hold your breath.

I don;t know, he mentioned the paino demo a year (or even more to some) before people here knew it even existed. I don;t doubt he knows more about this.

Piano demo only is not the famous one mentioned by Susan R.

love2thenines2003 said:

JorisE73 said:

I don;t know, he mentioned the paino demo a year (or even more to some) before people here knew it even existed. I don;t doubt he knows more about this.

Piano demo only is not the famous one mentioned by Susan R.

I know, but I was replying to someone who said he probably didn't have a clue.
But becuase he mentioned even the piano demo years before Duane did that almost noone here knew about untill Duane mentioned it I said he probably knew much more about the whole Wally thing than we think.

[Edited 10/7/20 5:03am]

JorisE73 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

Piano demo only is not the famous one mentioned by Susan R.

I know, but I was replying to someone who said he probably didn't have a clue.
But becuase he mentioned even the piano demo years before Duane did that almost noone here knew about untill Duane mentioned it I said he probably knew much more about the whole Wally thing than we think.

[Edited 10/7/20 5:03am]

Sure !!!

love2thenines2003 said:

JorisE73 said:

fredmagnus said:

Despite what he said, i'm sure he has no clue at all so don't hold your breath.

I don;t know, he mentioned the paino demo a year (or even more to some) before people here knew it even existed. I don;t doubt he knows more about this.

IIRC Wally #1 was a piano demo from what Susan said maybe that's what he was talking about.

So he talked about Babyless about a year ago ? When ? Where ? I'd love to read that and be proven wrong that's for sure.

fredmagnus said:

JorisE73 said:

I don;t know, he mentioned the paino demo a year (or even more to some) before people here knew it even existed. I don;t doubt he knows more about this.

IIRC Wally #1 was a piano demo from what Susan said maybe that's what he was talking about.

So he talked about Babyless about a year ago ? When ? Where ? I'd love to read that and be proven wrong that's for sure.

On the famous take (multitrax) erased by Prince....this was more than a piano version , Bass & drums were recorded too for this version !

love2thenines2003 said:

fredmagnus said:

IIRC Wally #1 was a piano demo from what Susan said maybe that's what he was talking about.

So he talked about Babyless about a year ago ? When ? Where ? I'd love to read that and be proven wrong that's for sure.

On the famous take (multitrax) erased by Prince....this was more than a piano version , Bass & drums were recorded too for this version !

Ok, thanks. I forgot that.

I went back and found the original conversation from last September. And I'm glad I did because he actually told me.
.
Wally #1 studio take (master erased, cassette mixdown unknown if it still exists) -> Wally Piano Demo (cassette recorded over for the mixdown of Wally #2) -> Wally #2 studio take (the one we have and was released on SotT SDE)

.

Sorry for the misremembering earlier.

.

"the piano demo was on a cassette tape, but said tape was recorded over for a new version instead of using a new cassette tape (the ver. you all know & love is what resides on the tape RN...). The master of the 1st complete studio take WAS erased, and it's unconfirmed if a cassette mixdown still exists. There are some lyrics of an alt. version (that's not the second rerecord that circulates) but IDK if they're from another copy of the piano take or the initial take he erased (and supposedly put on a cassette tape).

.

No, piano demo on cassette was most likely the 2nd iteration ever recorded. Studio master of V1 was erased, a cassette was probably made beforehand though. After this erase took place, piano version was likely recorded onto 1 cassette tape. Then the 2nd studio version (the bootlegged one) was recorded (w/horns added shortly after) and mixed down to the original TDK SA 60 cassette that he recorded the piano version/demo onto initially (it was recorded over the piano demo... Sucks, I know). You also HEAVILLY overestimate the timing it took for the mono copy to get leaked... Took a lot less than that LOL.

.

[me: so he made the piano demo after the #1 studio take but before the second?]

.

Yeah I believe that's the chronology"

[Edited 10/7/20 10:33am]

Strive said:

LoveGalore said:

Strive said:

I went back and found the original conversation from last September. And I'm glad I did because he actually told me.
.
Wally #1 studio take (master erased, cassette mixdown unknown if it still exists) -> Wally Piano Demo (cassette recorded over for the mixdown of Wally #2) -> Wally #2 studio take (the one we have and was released on SotT SDE)

.

Sorry for the misremembering earlier.

.

"the piano demo was on a cassette tape, but said tape was recorded over for a new version instead of using a new cassette tape (the ver. you all know & love is what resides on the tape RN...). The master of the 1st complete studio take WAS erased, and it's unconfirmed if a cassette mixdown still exists. There are some lyrics of an alt. version (that's not the second rerecord that circulates) but IDK if they're from another copy of the piano take or the initial take he erased (and supposedly put on a cassette tape).

.

No, piano demo on cassette was most likely the 2nd iteration ever recorded. Studio master of V1 was erased, a cassette was probably made beforehand though. After this erase took place, piano version was likely recorded onto 1 cassette tape. Then the 2nd studio version (the bootlegged one) was recorded (w/horns added shortly after) and mixed down to the original TDK SA 60 cassette that he recorded the piano version/demo onto initially (it was recorded over the piano demo... Sucks, I know). You also HEAVILLY overestimate the timing it took for the mono copy to get leaked... Took a lot less than that LOL.

.

[me: so he made the piano demo after the #1 studio take but before the second?]

.

Yeah I believe that's the chronology"

[Edited 10/7/20 10:33am]

This conflicts with what Duane wrote. In reality, it was piano demo, erased version, released version.

-

^This.

The above is assumptions based on a single cassette mixdown source. And arn't the words of Neversin either by the way

Strive said:

I went back and found the original conversation from last September. And I'm glad I did because he actually told me.
.
Wally #1 studio take (master erased, cassette mixdown unknown if it still exists) -> Wally Piano Demo (cassette recorded over for the mixdown of Wally #2) -> Wally #2 studio take (the one we have and was released on SotT SDE)

.

Sorry for the misremembering earlier.

.

"the piano demo was on a cassette tape, but said tape was recorded over for a new version instead of using a new cassette tape (the ver. you all know & love is what resides on the tape RN...). The master of the 1st complete studio take WAS erased, and it's unconfirmed if a cassette mixdown still exists. There are some lyrics of an alt. version (that's not the second rerecord that circulates) but IDK if they're from another copy of the piano take or the initial take he erased (and supposedly put on a cassette tape).

.

No, piano demo on cassette was most likely the 2nd iteration ever recorded. Studio master of V1 was erased, a cassette was probably made beforehand though. After this erase took place, piano version was likely recorded onto 1 cassette tape. Then the 2nd studio version (the bootlegged one) was recorded (w/horns added shortly after) and mixed down to the original TDK SA 60 cassette that he recorded the piano version/demo onto initially (it was recorded over the piano demo... Sucks, I know). You also HEAVILLY overestimate the timing it took for the mono copy to get leaked... Took a lot less than that LOL.

.

[me: so he made the piano demo after the #1 studio take but before the second?]

.

Yeah I believe that's the chronology"

[Edited 10/7/20 10:33am]

Uhm this is what neversin replyed to someone who asked about this post of youtrs:

*****

I honestly don't know... I don't remember ever telling this person "Strive" anything about the piano demo of "Wally" personally, so either he got it from someone else or he read an old Google+ post from a couple of years ago I did about it and is mixing that info with something else...
Besides some of that info in that post is definitely not from me...
A copy of the piano demo still exists because, as usual with his other piano or guitar "demos" he used as the basic track, Prince made a copy and used that for "Wally #2" (or he used the original and kept the copy as a backup...) He did this for a lot of tracks...

I also don't know anything about the mono leak of "Wally #2", the person who did the transfer (or his friend did it...) contacted me once and told me how he knew the source personally and how he got the material that he got... A genuine good guy who's not out for buck but eventually got fucked over by some cunts, as usual...

Neversin.

*****

So now Susan is saying the previous version is similar, he just delivers the vocals with less vulnerability?

Anyone with the leaked tapes would just be pissing in the dark about which version came when and trying to make educated guesses given how Susan herself has had trouble sorting it out from her memory.

JorisE73 said:

Strive said:

I went back and found the original conversation from last September. And I'm glad I did because he actually told me.
.
Wally #1 studio take (master erased, cassette mixdown unknown if it still exists) -> Wally Piano Demo (cassette recorded over for the mixdown of Wally #2) -> Wally #2 studio take (the one we have and was released on SotT SDE)

.

Sorry for the misremembering earlier.

.

"the piano demo was on a cassette tape, but said tape was recorded over for a new version instead of using a new cassette tape (the ver. you all know & love is what resides on the tape RN...). The master of the 1st complete studio take WAS erased, and it's unconfirmed if a cassette mixdown still exists. There are some lyrics of an alt. version (that's not the second rerecord that circulates) but IDK if they're from another copy of the piano take or the initial take he erased (and supposedly put on a cassette tape).

.

No, piano demo on cassette was most likely the 2nd iteration ever recorded. Studio master of V1 was erased, a cassette was probably made beforehand though. After this erase took place, piano version was likely recorded onto 1 cassette tape. Then the 2nd studio version (the bootlegged one) was recorded (w/horns added shortly after) and mixed down to the original TDK SA 60 cassette that he recorded the piano version/demo onto initially (it was recorded over the piano demo... Sucks, I know). You also HEAVILLY overestimate the timing it took for the mono copy to get leaked... Took a lot less than that LOL.

.

[me: so he made the piano demo after the #1 studio take but before the second?]

.

Yeah I believe that's the chronology"

[Edited 10/7/20 10:33am]

Uhm this is what neversin replyed to someone who asked about this post of youtrs:

*****

I honestly don't know... I don't remember ever telling this person "Strive" anything about the piano demo of "Wally" personally, so either he got it from someone else or he read an old Google+ post from a couple of years ago I did about it and is mixing that info with something else...
Besides some of that info in that post is definitely not from me...
A copy of the piano demo still exists because, as usual with his other piano or guitar "demos" he used as the basic track, Prince made a copy and used that for "Wally #2" (or he used the original and kept the copy as a backup...) He did this for a lot of tracks...

I also don't know anything about the mono leak of "Wally #2", the person who did the transfer (or his friend did it...) contacted me once and told me how he knew the source personally and how he got the material that he got... A genuine good guy who's not out for buck but eventually got fucked over by some cunts, as usual...

Neversin.

*****

-

Of course the piano demo still exists. Just read the post...

Whats funny is the thought he recorded the demo onto a 60min cassette but recorded over it when he had another 55+ mins of unused tape on the cassette LOL

Vannormal said:

Strive said:

lavendardrummachine said:

For the love of Christ, if someone has this version #1, release it, so we can rest in peace.