this thread reminds me so much of the Chappelle Show skit with John Mayer... Dave was right

It's a kiddie song, fitting for a cartoon soundtrack, with it's wacky energy and high-pitched quirky-silly lyrics. Cosmic day, indeed.

>

People who take themselves (ie their tastes) too seriously won't like it, I'm convinced is the reasoning--I guess it is too juvenile and obviously too high-pitched (LOL) for some. People are free to hate of course, but I do like the thing.

>

I didn't at first listen, thought it was too weird even as a stand-alone and his guitar solos sounded like he didn't know what to do with them. After a couple more listens I started to un-hear the concept of his similar reworked solos placed on other songs, and that made this record's soloing much better in my mind.

>

Finally, the tremolo in his vocals reminds me of Madonna. I wonder if he had her specifically in mind for any aspect of the song.

>

Hearing the vault tracks is pretty cool.

For The Bangles?

Interesting tune and I'm really looking forward to hearing the rest of the Deluxe stuff from the vault. Of the 3 that they've released so far, Witness seems to be my favorite.

IAdoreWeronika said:

ThirdStrike said:

RJOrion said:

meanwhile, i get banned for submitting 2 word post, "corny jibberish"...gotta love the selective moderation tactics.

They're just like that, but don't say it outloud they don't like it.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Imagine playing this AND Good Love to anyone who hates Cosmic Day...musical torture!

Lots of similarities IMHO & I LOVE both!

Indeed, I like it a lot, and the voice sound way different from Camille, I like much more than Witness which everyone consider a great song, I just don't see it.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I thought it said Te Amo Cosmic Day.

IAdoreWeronika said:

For The Bangles?

Interesting thought, he offered them "Jealous Girl" as well as "Manic Monday" so maybe he considered it for them too?

lavendardrummachine said:

ofofoffjoff said:

I am also not sure about it being a Camille track. I also think that the notion of a sped-up-vocals in a track by default making it a "Camille" track is a very simplistic way of looking at it. I think the Camille persona was a much more complex concept with a variety of outcomes – it was more of an attitude and his way of creatively totally abandoning his musical past of Prince & The Revolution in order to reinvent himself musically. Tracks like Dream Factory, Love or Money, Erotic City (all pre Camille) are definetly not Camille tracks. Scarlet Pussy was listed as a Camille track but was recorded with slowed-down vocals. So while most Camille tracks are with of course the sped-vocals it ain't the rule.

Cosmic Day is a killer track. I also thought for a moment it potentially being a demo track for a female artist; Madonna? Dale Bozzio? But then I am not sure – guide vocal demos are very different imo – in the sense that it often misses the passion Prince usually puts in his vocal delivery. Cosmic Day sounds very passionate to me, ecstatic in fact, a sense of urgency! the guitar is mind blowing.

Dale Bozzio is also a good guess with the intro.

It's the backing vocals that just don't sound Camille to me. Sounds like it could realistically be a woman, like you could sing over it and it would be well masked.

That's him doing background right, I haven't lost my mind? It's a different voice than Camille, like he's processing it to really sound female instead. Maybe just seeing how far he could take it.

He didn't do that with Manic Monday or Shiela, or Vanity demos, but maybe he did for Dale or ...I don't know, Taja Sevelle? A lot of the guide tracks are toned down but some of those final versions are still restrained in terms of passion too. "Never be another fool" goes all out with passion.

It really sounds unlike Camille, sounds more like a woman singing.

slyjackson said:

Love it, can see why he didn't release it. The last "tra-la-la-la-la-la" sounds almost identical to "why do they fall in love?" (Frankie Lymon).

Jerky said:

It will be interesting to see if Duane Tudahl’s new book will shed any light on why this wasn’t released back in the day. Those around at the time may have some insight. There’s certainly elements of other songs. The hook in particular sounds like Sugar Walls. It’s really interesting to hear these Vault recordings as we can hear ideas forming for other songs. It’s funny how some people can make up their mind on a song after only a couple of listens. I hated Housequake when I first heard it. Now I realise that I wasn’t ready to take it all in and of course I grew to be a favourite. It’ll be interesting to see if that’s the case with the knee-jerkers. I think it’s fantastic.

I can do that just listening a couple of second of a song.

djdaffy1227 said:

djThunderfunk said:

Diversity of opinion threatens some people I guess.

I've never liked the snippet, or been interested in hearing more, and now that I have I like it even less. I was going to come here to discuss it, but I'm not interested in being accused of trolling because I have an unpopular opinion so instead I guess I'll just congratulate those that finally have their holy grail while I eagerly await Rebirth Of The Flesh & In A Large Room With No Light in better quality than the circulating boots and hope some of the tracks I've never heard are awesome.

I can't wait to hear the sound quality on "Wally". That is a song I truly love!

I guess I haven't paid too much attention to the snippet of "Cosmic day" over the years as I searched my Prince hard drive and see I have 3 different lenghth snippets of the song. One clocks in at 1:04, another at 1:50 and the one on Blast From the Past at 3:09. The 3:09 version fades before the second part of the song and would be a good "radio edit" for the single if they wanted to go there. Anyway, I stand by my original thought, love the guitar but not the voice.

Me too, I love that leaked version.

slyjackson said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I thought it said Te Amo Cosmic Day.

That would have made an AWESOME title!!

ofofoffjoff said:

I am also not sure about it being a Camille track. I also think that the notion of a sped-up-vocals in a track by default making it a "Camille" track is a very simplistic way of looking at it. I think the Camille persona was a much more complex concept with a variety of outcomes – it was more of an attitude and his way of creatively totally abandoning his musical past of Prince & The Revolution in order to reinvent himself musically. Tracks like Dream Factory, Love or Money, Erotic City (all pre Camille) are definetly not Camille tracks. Scarlet Pussy was listed as a Camille track but was recorded with slowed-down vocals. So while most Camille tracks are with of course the sped-vocals it ain't the rule.

Ding Ding. There is a real danger than fans with less knowledge are labeling Camille songs as 'tracks with a speeded up voice'. That thought process is already all over you tube and twitter, and has been here for many years.

There was never a Camille 'voice'. There was high register (Good Love), mid register (Le Grind) and low register (scarlett Pussy/Bob George). For some reason, a section of Prince fans seem desperate to compartmentalise Camille as the speeded up tracks.

I wasn't impressed until I put the headphones on.

All kinds of sonic pleasures going on.

SquirrelMeat said:

ofofoffjoff said:

I am also not sure about it being a Camille track. I also think that the notion of a sped-up-vocals in a track by default making it a "Camille" track is a very simplistic way of looking at it. I think the Camille persona was a much more complex concept with a variety of outcomes – it was more of an attitude and his way of creatively totally abandoning his musical past of Prince & The Revolution in order to reinvent himself musically. Tracks like Dream Factory, Love or Money, Erotic City (all pre Camille) are definetly not Camille tracks. Scarlet Pussy was listed as a Camille track but was recorded with slowed-down vocals. So while most Camille tracks are with of course the sped-vocals it ain't the rule.

Ding Ding. There is a real danger than fans with less knowledge are labeling Camille songs as 'tracks with a speeded up voice'. That thought process is already all over you tube and twitter, and has been here for many years.

There was never a Camille 'voice'. There was high register (Good Love), mid register (Le Grind) and low register (scarlett Pussy/Bob George). For some reason, a section of Prince fans seem desperate to compartmentalise Camille as the speeded up tracks.

And the estate isn't helping much either with their press release for Cosmic Day – indirectly stating it being a "Camille" track. What evidence do they have?

This could've really been an opportunity for them (the estate) to educate the audience in the sense that the inspiration for Camille came from Herlucine Barbine's memoir who was an intersex person and was later on referred to as Camille. Especially these days when intersex and the trans community is facing so much adversity in society. Prince was back then a head of the game – pushing the gender binary even further with the concept of Camille. Was this perhaps another reason why Warners balked at the idea of an entire Camille album aka the original Crystal Ball (as the BG tapes suggest)? As the concept itself was too controversial at the time? Did Prince push it too far with Warners at the time, presenting a large volume of work and a total name change?

It's kind of fascinating how important the Camille persona was to Prince – he pretty much held onto it all the way until Lovesexy.

I am also curious for Wally on the SDE– as the leaked version also had a sped-up voice and I remember people on the org slowing down the track at normal speed (thinking it was tinkered with). In the end I also don't think Cosmic Day was created for someone else. It's just Prince creating a highly experimental track.

Still listening to it on repeat.

ofofoffjoff said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Ding Ding. There is a real danger than fans with less knowledge are labeling Camille songs as 'tracks with a speeded up voice'. That thought process is already all over you tube and twitter, and has been here for many years.

There was never a Camille 'voice'. There was high register (Good Love), mid register (Le Grind) and low register (scarlett Pussy/Bob George). For some reason, a section of Prince fans seem desperate to compartmentalise Camille as the speeded up tracks.

And the estate isn't helping much either with their press release for Cosmic Day – indirectly stating it being a "Camille" track. What evidence do they have?

This could've really been an opportunity for them (the estate) to educate the audience in the sense that the inspiration for Camille came from Herlucine Barbine's memoir who was an intersex person and was later on referred to as Camille. Especially these days when intersex and the trans community is facing so much adversity in society. Prince was back then a head of the game – pushing the gender binary even further with the concept of Camille. Was this perhaps another reason why Warners balked at the idea of an entire Camille album aka the original Crystal Ball (as the BG tapes suggest)? As the concept itself was too controversial at the time? Did Prince push it too far with Warners at the time, presenting a large volume of work and a total name change?

It's kind of fascinating how important the Camille persona was to Prince – he pretty much held onto it all the way until Lovesexy.

I am also curious for Wally on the SDE– as the leaked version also had a sped-up voice and I remember people on the org slowing down the track at normal speed (thinking it was tinkered with). In the end I also don't think Cosmic Day was created for someone else. It's just Prince creating a highly experimental track.

Still listening to it on repeat.

I tend to think that "Cosmic Day" may have been interned for a female singer. Both in how it sounds and the mention of a "merman." Give "101" or ever "Sex Shooter" a listen... they sound like femal voices--not a high pitiched male voice.

To me most Camille songs were sang as male... I have had to explain "If I Was Your Girlfriend" many times... No "Rockhard In a Funky Place" can (in my mind) go both ways...


also: intersex is not the same as transgender. *and wanting to get political when I was young I was challenged by a pastor and my dad on views on being transgender or being gay I asked "What about (intersex) people?" That ended the interrogation.

ofofoffjoff said:

This could've really been an opportunity for them (the estate) to educate the audience in the sense that the inspiration for Camille came from Herlucine Barbine's memoir who was an intersex person and was later on referred to as Camille.

.

That's quite a claim and doesn't really strike me as Prince. The answer of who or how Camille came to be, to me, is much simpler and much more like a prank/tongue in cheek.

.

I've read in a few books that Prince referred to Michael Jackson as Camille (a re-ordering of the sounds in Michael). Michael Jackson, in public, always used a weird high voice to talk. (he had a "normal" voice that he used privately, although not always, it seems, I don't know enough details about MJ to say one way or another)

.

So Prince, who had been experimenting with varispeeding the tape (as well as reversing, backmasking and anything he could think of) for a while sped up his voice for a lead vocal. <speculation>His thinking might have been that he'd sound a bit like MJ as a joke.</speculation> At the same time, he wanted to "not be Prince", in the sense that superstardom makes it hard to approach music on its own terms instead of as a "prince product" (in this sense, just look at MJ who, after becoming a solo star with Off The Wall has engineered every album after as a marketing product where all songs should be able to be singles and with a multiyear plan to extract as much value out of it as possible. He succeeded once and ever after was chasing and not reaching it more)

.

So, put one and one together, a sped up vocal to jokingly sound like "camille" with results that sounded cool and a name to attach to it, that wasn't an exisiting trademark of a name. I don't think it was much deeper than that.

.

I have no idea what his thoughts towards masculinity, femininity, intersex and LGBTQ were at the time, I do know that later on he already had a lot of problems with gay people (specifically W&L, but in a wider sense too, he has a number of songs about it), so I doubt he would knowingly choose a hommage to Herlucine Barbine. (of course, he never denied it, anything that adds mystique, right?)

Meh. Not really in my mix of favorite outtake tracks, but I do hope we'll eventually hear a Kirky J '95 remix to give it some new life.

I like the songbut maybe Prince just liked to, I don't know, record all the time knowing that he wasn't going to release whatever he was recording at that moment? Like we all already know that he did. Like he actually talked about in interviews?

Otherwise, why have a VAULT full of music?

GirlBrother said:

It's great that others are gaining some kind of... enjoyment from this song. I'll file it in the same place as Graffiti Bridge, Purple & Gold, and Jughead.

Exactly.

Historically, it's fantastic to see the entire picture. Even stuff he opted to remain hidden away. A lot of stuff for very good reason. While he was alive he had an image to protect and an image he carefully controlled.
Now that he is gone, we are doing a postmortem. We're are seeing behind the scenes, and stuff that wasn't meant to be released "officially"

It's fascinating, but we should have proper perspective, and see it for what it is.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

ofofoffjoff said:

And the estate isn't helping much either with their press release for Cosmic Day – indirectly stating it being a "Camille" track. What evidence do they have?

This could've really been an opportunity for them (the estate) to educate the audience in the sense that the inspiration for Camille came from Herlucine Barbine's memoir who was an intersex person and was later on referred to as Camille. Especially these days when intersex and the trans community is facing so much adversity in society. Prince was back then a head of the game – pushing the gender binary even further with the concept of Camille. Was this perhaps another reason why Warners balked at the idea of an entire Camille album aka the original Crystal Ball (as the BG tapes suggest)? As the concept itself was too controversial at the time? Did Prince push it too far with Warners at the time, presenting a large volume of work and a total name change?

It's kind of fascinating how important the Camille persona was to Prince – he pretty much held onto it all the way until Lovesexy.

I am also curious for Wally on the SDE– as the leaked version also had a sped-up voice and I remember people on the org slowing down the track at normal speed (thinking it was tinkered with). In the end I also don't think Cosmic Day was created for someone else. It's just Prince creating a highly experimental track.

Still listening to it on repeat.

I tend to think that "Cosmic Day" may have been interned for a female singer. Both in how it sounds and the mention of a "merman." Give "101" or ever "Sex Shooter" a listen... they sound like femal voices--not a high pitiched male voice.

To me most Camille songs were sang as male... I have had to explain "If I Was Your Girlfriend" many times... No "Rockhard In a Funky Place" can (in my mind) go both ways...


also: intersex is not the same as transgender. *and wanting to get political when I was young I was challenged by a pastor and my dad on views on being transgender or being gay I asked "What about (intersex) people?" That ended the interrogation.

I hear you. I am so on the fence about it. To me Sex Shooter and 101 both feel like guide vocal tracks –although 101 lesser so. The confusion around Cosmic Day for me is somewhat simiar to the track Yo Mister – not so much in regards to the vocals but the delivery. Was it always a song intended to give away eventually or something that was decided later on – considering I believe we have the 86 cut? With Yo Mister I think it can swing both ways. Guess we'll never know! unless SDE will provide some liner notes for Cosmic Day – or maybe Duane's next book will give some insight.

Apologies for insinuating otherwise, I am aware that intersex and transgender isn't the same. I used the term more in reference to Herlucine Barbine memoir and linked it back to the trans/non-binary comunnity, that face similar if not the same adverisity.

mediumdry said:

ofofoffjoff said:

This could've really been an opportunity for them (the estate) to educate the audience in the sense that the inspiration for Camille came from Herlucine Barbine's memoir who was an intersex person and was later on referred to as Camille.

.

That's quite a claim and doesn't really strike me as Prince. The answer of who or how Camille came to be, to me, is much simpler and much more like a prank/tongue in cheek.

.

I've read in a few books that Prince referred to Michael Jackson as Camille (a re-ordering of the sounds in Michael). Michael Jackson, in public, always used a weird high voice to talk. (he had a "normal" voice that he used privately, although not always, it seems, I don't know enough details about MJ to say one way or another)

.

So Prince, who had been experimenting with varispeeding the tape (as well as reversing, backmasking and anything he could think of) for a while sped up his voice for a lead vocal. <speculation>His thinking might have been that he'd sound a bit like MJ as a joke.</speculation> At the same time, he wanted to "not be Prince", in the sense that superstardom makes it hard to approach music on its own terms instead of as a "prince product" (in this sense, just look at MJ who, after becoming a solo star with Off The Wall has engineered every album after as a marketing product where all songs should be able to be singles and with a multiyear plan to extract as much value out of it as possible. He succeeded once and ever after was chasing and not reaching it more)

.

So, put one and one together, a sped up vocal to jokingly sound like "camille" with results that sounded cool and a name to attach to it, that wasn't an exisiting trademark of a name. I don't think it was much deeper than that.

.

I have no idea what his thoughts towards masculinity, femininity, intersex and LGBTQ were at the time, I do know that later on he already had a lot of problems with gay people (specifically W&L, but in a wider sense too, he has a number of songs about it), so I doubt he would knowingly choose a hommage to Herlucine Barbine. (of course, he never denied it, anything that adds mystique, right?)

I totally agree on Prince not wanting "to be Prince" in order to creatively liberate himself. Might have been a prank but it also allowed him to ascend in a different musical direction and from a creative perspective I feel it has more meaning than it just being a prank. I mean the duality was already there with Prince, so in many ways the Camille persona isn't really THAT different from Prince, and pseudonyms was already something he had been toying with – but I guess he really desired to formalize the Camille persona or character more prominantly (two unreleased albums solely assigned to Camille). He also gave the Camille persona more importance in the essay included in the Lovesexy tour book. Whether that was just fiction or maybe even a markting trick is very much up for debate, but Camille really didnt have that much presence in the released material at that time (besides vocal credits in the liner notes on SOTT). It definitely all added to the mystique at the time and it still does now – which possibibly also is something I'd personally like emerging myself in as that is what really drew me to Prince back then (the 80s) in the first place.

I am a ex Jehovah's Witness and the music of Prince really helped me back then to explore my own identity – growing up in a super restricted and homophobic environment. Eventually turning my back on this cult in my early twenties – ironically same time when Prince joined the cult unfortunately. So there's a stark difference in Prince's convictions/perspective on the LGBTQ+ community when he was in the 80s and then later on in his life.

[Edited 8/8/20 9:22am]