maybe they purposely left them out to get the fans riled up for the future

Neversin said:

homesquid said:

Genesa asked a question and you are the one who whined about a non-existent "man-hating cliche whine fest". Replace your tampon, Neversin.

Oh please... This person was clearly trying to bait people... It's a troll post, not to mention your tampon comment... You sound like a misogynist cunt...
And all this fake outrage about Prince "glorifying" rape (or even torture on other released songs) but all these whiners are still supporting him smells like pure hypocrisy...
Now go burn some books with "rapey" content...

Oh and since the songs are readily available to scrutinize in bootleg form and even the content has been laid bare by an official spokesperson (Michael Howe) for all to read, there's still zero outrage and the average "woke" or "Pound Metoo" follower really doesn't give a shit about them or their content...
So all the drama about some hypothetical "panic" they could maybe cause or people trying to "Wacko Jacko" Prince is not going to happen... And even if it does people will still buy his records and I highly doubt Prince still gives a shit about his reputation because, you know, he's dead...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/6/20 3:12am]

You fell right into my trap on the "tampon" comment. Genesa asked a question and you whined like you were getting paid to. I poked you and got what I expected. YOU are the biggest whiner in this whole thread. "Misogynistic cunt"? "Hypothetical panic"? Yeah nobody was worried about any panic. Calm down. The "burning books" card? Really? Calm down. Oye! The tragic irony. Slippery slope fallacy alert. They had no problem releasing raunchy songs and leaving off two potentially problematic songs isn't going to cause a reactive purging of his music.

Anyway I'm quite certain Howe knew certain fans like you would piss and moan about them not being included but guess what? This website is a small piece of Prince's worldwide fanbase. Most people haven't obsessed over bootlegs for the past 30 or so years. But more importantly Howe was rightfully concerned about Prince's name and his decision to leave off those songs was smart. He already knew you theives already had them anyway. Bottom line you aren't entitled to anything in Prince's vault so you have no right to demand everything be included on anything. You douchebags who passed on the set because they didn't include two songs you should have never heard to beging with are only doing so because you can snatch the audio for free anyway. I almost wish Prince torched the vault before he passed just to watch you Princecels rant.

True. But nobody's entitled to censor or omit Prince's art because it might be offensive to somebody who takes it literally either.

homesquid said:

homesquid said:

The "burning books" card? Really? Calm down. Oye!

I almost wish Prince torched the vault before he passed just to watch you Princecels rant.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

At a time where Rachel Maddow can get away with calling someone a Russian paid shill, what is this thread about a supposed 'decision' by the 'Estate' without clarifying anything?

The thread title needs to be changed.

There is no proof for any decision.

Statements about rape in songs without any context are useless here because of the Politicially Correctness vibe at this time.

Censorship is evil and needs to be banned.

Information wants to be free. That's the way it is, has been, and will be.

If the estate doesn't do it then them b00tleggars will do it.

The lengths some people go to to not listen to like any reason

udo said:

I definitely fall into the camp that says release it. But in this particular case, since the "verge of rape" section is so deep into the song, it would have been absolutely okay for this first release to create a fade out sometime earlier around the six minute mark. The mastery of the song would still be there for six minutes, and the world would get the chance to hear this extraorindary work, maybe not in the 'full version,' but in a great version. I don't think very many would miss this 'rape' portion given that the vast majority of the song would still be there. But not to include it at all is in my mind the only major flaw of the incredible work that was done for this new edition.

sexton said:

ForceofNature said:

I like both songs but what is such a big deal about the ommision? They are both easily available on boots for us, to me it is a non-issue blown into something needlessly big. Mountains out of ant hills

I have yet to find "Extralovable" in good quality on any bootleg release.

There isn't one that is amazing quality, but good enough quality to be enjoyable and enjoyed. Would I have liked this song to be freshly revived from the multitracks? Sure. But it isn't, and nothing we can do will change that so I say enjoy that we can enjoy the song at all, and enjoy the material on the box set (not directed at anyone specifically just in general)

sexton said:

ForceofNature said:

I like both songs but what is such a big deal about the ommision? They are both easily available on boots for us, to me it is a non-issue blown into something needlessly big. Mountains out of ant hills

I have yet to find "Extralovable" in good quality on any bootleg release.

best you will find.....

SNIPPSY -OF4$

homesquid said:

Neversin said:

Oh please... This person was clearly trying to bait people... It's a troll post, not to mention your tampon comment... You sound like a misogynist cunt...
And all this fake outrage about Prince "glorifying" rape (or even torture on other released songs) but all these whiners are still supporting him smells like pure hypocrisy...
Now go burn some books with "rapey" content...

Oh and since the songs are readily available to scrutinize in bootleg form and even the content has been laid bare by an official spokesperson (Michael Howe) for all to read, there's still zero outrage and the average "woke" or "Pound Metoo" follower really doesn't give a shit about them or their content...
So all the drama about some hypothetical "panic" they could maybe cause or people trying to "Wacko Jacko" Prince is not going to happen... And even if it does people will still buy his records and I highly doubt Prince still gives a shit about his reputation because, you know, he's dead...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/6/20 3:12am]

You fell right into my trap on the "tampon" comment. Genesa asked a question and you whined like you were getting paid to. I poked you and got what I expected. YOU are the biggest whiner in this whole thread. "Misogynistic cunt"? "Hypothetical panic"? Yeah nobody was worried about any panic. Calm down. The "burning books" card? Really? Calm down. Oye! The tragic irony. Slippery slope fallacy alert. They had no problem releasing raunchy songs and leaving off two potentially problematic songs isn't going to cause a reactive purging of his music.

Anyway I'm quite certain Howe knew certain fans like you would piss and moan about them not being included but guess what? This website is a small piece of Prince's worldwide fanbase. Most people haven't obsessed over bootlegs for the past 30 or so years. But more importantly Howe was rightfully concerned about Prince's name and his decision to leave off those songs was smart. He already knew you theives already had them anyway. Bottom line you aren't entitled to anything in Prince's vault so you have no right to demand everything be included on anything. You douchebags who passed on the set because they didn't include two songs you should have never heard to beging with are only doing so because you can snatch the audio for free anyway. I almost wish Prince torched the vault before he passed just to watch you Princecels rant.

I bet nobody really passed on the set, those are just empty threats in hopes the estate is watching, a ficticious comment where the creator somehow believes this is sticking it to the estate and they are somehow losing sleep over it or swayed by it.

homesquid said:

Neversin said:

Oh please... This person was clearly trying to bait people... It's a troll post, not to mention your tampon comment... You sound like a misogynist cunt...
And all this fake outrage about Prince "glorifying" rape (or even torture on other released songs) but all these whiners are still supporting him smells like pure hypocrisy...
Now go burn some books with "rapey" content...

Oh and since the songs are readily available to scrutinize in bootleg form and even the content has been laid bare by an official spokesperson (Michael Howe) for all to read, there's still zero outrage and the average "woke" or "Pound Metoo" follower really doesn't give a shit about them or their content...
So all the drama about some hypothetical "panic" they could maybe cause or people trying to "Wacko Jacko" Prince is not going to happen... And even if it does people will still buy his records and I highly doubt Prince still gives a shit about his reputation because, you know, he's dead...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/6/20 3:12am]

You fell right into my trap on the "tampon" comment. Genesa asked a question and you whined like you were getting paid to. I poked you and got what I expected. YOU are the biggest whiner in this whole thread. "Misogynistic cunt"? "Hypothetical panic"? Yeah nobody was worried about any panic. Calm down. The "burning books" card? Really? Calm down. Oye! The tragic irony. Slippery slope fallacy alert. They had no problem releasing raunchy songs and leaving off two potentially problematic songs isn't going to cause a reactive purging of his music.

Anyway I'm quite certain Howe knew certain fans like you would piss and moan about them not being included but guess what? This website is a small piece of Prince's worldwide fanbase. Most people haven't obsessed over bootlegs for the past 30 or so years. But more importantly Howe was rightfully concerned about Prince's name and his decision to leave off those songs was smart. He already knew you theives already had them anyway. Bottom line you aren't entitled to anything in Prince's vault so you have no right to demand everything be included on anything. You douchebags who passed on the set because they didn't include two songs you should have never heard to beging with are only doing so because you can snatch the audio for free anyway. I almost wish Prince torched the vault before he passed just to watch you Princecels rant.

Yeah sure, a "trap"... You're, like that Geniesia person, a troll and a misogynist cunt to boot, deal with it...
I fully agree with your sentiment that Prince should have burned his vault just so undeserving suckers like yourself would never get to hear this stuff, but he didn't and nobody is demanding anything... It's the idiots running the show that gatekeep stuff that is readily available on bootlegs in questionable quality so there's no reason not to release it officially and "beat" the bootleggers and finally profit of it...
And don't call people "thieves" who have material you will never have, you don't know anything about them or the way they got them...

Neversin.

LoveGalore said:

udo said:

At a time where Rachel Maddow can get away with calling someone a Russian paid shill, what is this thread about a supposed 'decision' by the 'Estate' without clarifying anything?

The thread title needs to be changed.

There is no proof for any decision.

Statements about rape in songs without any context are useless here because of the Politicially Correctness vibe at this time.

Censorship is evil and needs to be banned.

Information wants to be free. That's the way it is, has been, and will be.

If the estate doesn't do it then them b00tleggars will do it.

What? Michael Howe publicly stated their opinions.

.

When?

Where?

Link?

Okay, so if we were going to try and frame this in a reasonable way, and avoid all the name calling and nonsense going on in this thread, and actually look at the topic sensibly, here's my take.

I believe that Extra Loveable and Lust U Always should have been released, uncensored, on 1999 super Deluxe.

Firstly, I don't believe that anyone has the right to be offended about anything when it comes to art. If you don't like something, you simply ignore it. (I speak from experience on this.)

Secondly, those two songs actually fall right in to the overarching thematic context of what Prince was doing on 1999.

The whole project, when you look at the original album, and the outtakes, is about EDGES.

It's about finding edges, pushing boundaries, experimenting with the taboo. Obsession, lust, sexual perversion, domination, submissiveness, passion, love... all these things come into play again and again through these songs.

I believe this was partly because Prince was at an age - and stage in his career - where he was defining himself as he broke through to a wider audience, seeing what he could get away with, what barriers he could break down.... and this attitude, approach and exploration actually became the theme of the 1999 project for him, I think.

Of course, in the final estimation, the record needed a hit, so the song 1999 came along, which isn't as dark as some of the other stuff on there, but even that is about pushing boundaries in its own way - about partying in the face of the apocalypse... but altogether, this was a record about going the extra mile - fucking the taste out of your mouth, getting nasty, fully committing to a feeling, an experience, giving in to those carnal desires that are just there, ignoring whether or not those feelings are considered socially acceptable.

And it's for this reason the rape lyrics in the two omitted songs make sense, in the context of the project as a whole. I truly believe it's important to consider them without resorting to 'if you're okay with this then you're sick' hysteria...

Prince was simply exploring another avenue of the taboo. It's just he hit on an area that people really can't deal with. I guess if he had sung about having sex with a dead person, some people would have the same reaction.... but I feel it's important to detach the actual act from the reference to the act.

For me, this new attitude of cancel culture is a very damaging one... of course, we all need to be nicer to each other... but if we can't differentiate actually being nice to one another, from art that discusses the darker and more unpleasant aspects of life and society, we're pretty much shot, culturally, I think.

It really has nothing to do with 'condoning rape' to say that you wish these songs were released in their entirety... and I don't believe for one second that Prince was condoning rape when he made these recordings... he was testing limits, finding his edges... it turns out his edges stopped short of mentioning rape, as he never released the tracks as they are, but that doesn't mean that we should never be able to consider them or discuss them in a rational way.

I also don't believe for a second that releasing these would tarnish Prince's legacy. I think people might be surprised if they learned how little the world at large actually cares about Prince, particularly now that he's no longer with us... as the quote from 'Pride and Prejudice' goes; 'you'd spend a lot less time worrying what other people think of you, if you realised how seldom they do'.

That's my thoughts on all this... anyone else have any thoughts to add? I'd love to be able to discuss this in a reasonable way.

I haven't listened to Purple Music (1999 deluxe) yet, but is the part about him being 'coerced' into something by the person he is working for edited out?


It's time for your morning bath, sir
What would you like to bathe in this morning?
With all due respect sir, I think that...
I think that it might...
Oh, oh no
I don't want to play anymore
I don't want to play anymore

Extraloveable, I believe that part could have been faded/blended out and put on the deluxe

let the unedited version stay a thing of 'infamous' legend in the black market and underground

The lyrics overall have no need to censor, just that one line could be blended out

Mmm...
Wait a minute
Ah yeah

Touch me at ur own risk
I'm not responsible 4 anything I do
I lust U madly
Ur kiss is all I want, U're all I wanna do, mm

My analyst assured me that U were just a phase
But I just can't stop this hunger, it's been going on 4 days
I lust U always
I lust U always, U're all I wanna do
I lust U always, darling I lust U

Proceed with caution
U just might stop on something U could never stop
Why I lust U always?
It's such a mystery, I guess U're 2 hot

My analyst assured me that U were just a phase
But I just can't stop this hunger, it's been going on 4 days
I lust U always
I lust U always, U're all I wanna do
Alright
I lust U always, darling I lust U

Hate me all U want 2, hurt me if U must (Hate me if U want 2)
But I'll chase ur ass 4ever, all my body knows is lust (I will still love U)
Always
I lust U always, U're all I wanna do
Whoo

Touch me at ur own risk
I'm not responsible 4 anything I do
I lust U always
I want 2 do more than I think U want me 2

(Yeah) My analyst assured me that I get over U
But I get the strangest feeling that he wants 2 do U 2
I lust U always, whoo! (Yeah)
I lust U always, U're all I wanna do
Ooh, yeah
I lust U always, darling I lust U
Ooh baby, don't U know why I lust always?
Lust U always
Whoo! Hey
U know I lust U always
Yeah...! (I lust U always, U're all I wanna do)
U know I lust U always
Work out

Don't U know there was a little purple fire burnin' n ur eyes? (Work out)
I must admit 4 a moment it took my mind up off ur thighs
(Everybody work out)
Funny thing, but the thought of eating always makes me nauseous (Oh)
If I think of eating food, ur body is more of what I had n mind (Work out)
My darling, may I have a bite of U?
Slow motion ejaculation purple ecstasy
My body reeks with lust, I will rape U if I must
U see, my 4th grade teacher, her name was Joni
I wanted so bad 2 see her pantylines (Work out)
But the principal of this episode says (I said work out)
"Why can't Prince just play with his?"
He can't, he won't, I'm sure he won't (Everybody work out)
I mean he doesn't play on any of Jamie Star's controls (Work out)
Cuz if he did, they'd sound like they were spinning 78's (Work out)
Only U could think that funk is great (C'mon, c'mon) (Work out)
But now how does that relate to why I lust u always? (Work out)
It doesn't
But that's what purple music's all about
Mean, it ain't rude, if U're n the mood
Turn it up, oh
Turn it up, somebody turn it up, oh

udo said:

LoveGalore said:

udo said: What? Michael Howe publicly stated their opinions.

.

When?

Where?

Link?

I can't believe I'm doing this because it is very well covered on the org and googling "Michael Howe Lust U Always" provides a plethora of sources.

.

https://www.ilikeyourolds...ince-vault

“Even though those two tracks are resolutely of the era, both tracks contain somewhat lamentable rape references. Given the egregiously insensitive candour of the lyrics and our lack of wanting to take creative license by editing or manipulating the tracks, we decided not to include them. Even though we want to shed light on the entire creative period, we certainly don’t want to be inflammatory or insensitive. We didn’t think it was right to include them.”

.

It has been quoted here incessantly.

Neversin said:

homesquid said:

You fell right into my trap on the "tampon" comment. Genesa asked a question and you whined like you were getting paid to. I poked you and got what I expected. YOU are the biggest whiner in this whole thread. "Misogynistic cunt"? "Hypothetical panic"? Yeah nobody was worried about any panic. Calm down. The "burning books" card? Really? Calm down. Oye! The tragic irony. Slippery slope fallacy alert. They had no problem releasing raunchy songs and leaving off two potentially problematic songs isn't going to cause a reactive purging of his music.

Anyway I'm quite certain Howe knew certain fans like you would piss and moan about them not being included but guess what? This website is a small piece of Prince's worldwide fanbase. Most people haven't obsessed over bootlegs for the past 30 or so years. But more importantly Howe was rightfully concerned about Prince's name and his decision to leave off those songs was smart. He already knew you theives already had them anyway. Bottom line you aren't entitled to anything in Prince's vault so you have no right to demand everything be included on anything. You douchebags who passed on the set because they didn't include two songs you should have never heard to beging with are only doing so because you can snatch the audio for free anyway. I almost wish Prince torched the vault before he passed just to watch you Princecels rant.

Yeah sure, a "trap"... You're, like that Geniesia person, a troll and a misogynist cunt to boot, deal with it...
I fully agree with your sentiment that Prince should have burned his vault just so undeserving suckers like yourself would never get to hear this stuff, but he didn't and nobody is demanding anything... It's the idiots running the show that gatekeep stuff that is readily available on bootlegs in questionable quality so there's no reason not to release it officially and "beat" the bootleggers and finally profit of it...
And don't call people "thieves" who have material you will never have, you don't know anything about them or the way they got them...

Neversin.

^^yet recently on that Disney+ thread you said:

Genesia said:

Wouldn't it be better to watch the uncut movie with your child and discuss with him how views that were commonplace in an earlier time have evolved - and how we are better for it?

For my part, I am glad that Turner Classic Movies has stood by its commitment to always show movies in their original form - absolutely uncut, no matter how uncomfortable it is. Of course, they always include a disclaimer every time they show Holiday Inn (for example). But that is a small price to pay to not participate in the current cancel culture.

so what now. censor or not?


"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
ban this!!!! cause murder is certainly not more accpetable than rape, is it?

what a phoney double standard

[Edited 1/8/20 7:49am]

mbdtyler said:

sro100 said:

Rape is bad. Murder is bad. So let's get rid of every song about killing someone. "Hey Joe." Every gangsta rap song. There's probably a few others about killing...."Natural Born Killaz." Maybe a couple others.

Next we get rid of every movie and TV show that features rape and killing because killing is bad.

Give me a fuckin' break!!!

Y'all really have nothing better to get worked up about? Seriously, people don't waste any time jumping to these hypothetical scenarios.

There isn't any kind of widespread censorship going on. Sometimes, people collectively decide that certain works of art are insensitive, or don't translate well to modern culture. Usually it's because things are better now than they were years ago, and people have become more empathetic toward victims of violence or sexual trauma. Should it be illegal to create a song like "Extraloveable"? No, and nobody with common sense is fucking saying that. Prince had the right to record those lyrics, and he rightfully chose not to release the song. Fans have the right to criticize the lyrics, and Michael Howe/WB have the right to leave the song in the vault at their discretion.

If people are criticizing something that features heavy topics, it's probably because the creators fumbled how they present said topics. Get a grip.

.

Wow. A thoughtful, reasonable, realistic, sane post.

.

Most of the folks on this thread are a bunch of entitled whiners acting like they are literally OWED access to every note and word ever recorded by Prince.

.

Has there ever in the history of music been a fanbase more greedy, ravenous, vulturous (and impossible to satisfy) than Prince fans?

Galaxy said:

Didn't Prince say someday everything will be released he wont but someday somebody will and If the master tapes were not destroyed then he Wanted it released. End Of discussion. Extra Loveable and Lust u Always I love the songs Would the sensitives burn the Rainbow Children Album because they dont agree with the lyrics. Not my beliefe but I love the Album. Its Art and not something disgusting or perverted.

.

Prince said a lot of things in this lifetime.

.

Prince followed through on a lot, and he changed his mind about a lot.

.

No plan was left in place. Everything is speculation.

.

Some fans will do almost anything to justify their sense of entitlement.

OldFriends4Sale said:

The lyrics overall have no need to censor, just that one line could be blended out

My body reeks with lust, I will rape U if I must

Hi OldFriends4Sale,

This is too much dead air for me IMO. If you include the word 'lust' I think you have to include the word 'must'. I think if I was put in charge of making an clean version of 'Lust U Always' I'd keep the music intact and simply mute the word "rape" from the two vocal lines. The line is sung so quickly that single word edit shouldn't sound too obnoxious.

In the case of 'Extralovable' I would mute the vocal from the first "I'm on the verge" all the way up to "I can be very cruel" and then return the vocal with "If you don't stop the groove". Since this is the part where the music breaks down I don't think the lack of a vocal will sound out of place.

I resent the notion that the fans who wanted these songs are "entitled". We're disappointed. We're allowed to be disappointed, or are you going to take that away from us as well?

VaultCurator said:

LoveGalore said:

VaultCurator said:

I resent the notion that the fans who wanted these songs are "entitled". We're disappointed. We're allowed to be disappointed, or are you going to take that away from us as well?

You really gotta consider the source on that one. The same guy who thinks all unreleased songs are incomplete because reasons.

They seriously said that?

VaultCurator said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The lyrics overall have no need to censor, just that one line could be blended out

My body reeks with lust, I will rape U if I must

Hi OldFriends4Sale,

This is too much dead air for me IMO. If you include the word 'lust' I think you have to include the word 'must'. I think if I was put in charge of making an clean version of 'Lust U Always' I'd keep the music intact and simply mute the word "rape" from the two vocal lines. The line is sung so quickly that single word edit shouldn't sound too obnoxious.

In the case of 'Extralovable' I would mute the vocal from the first "I'm on the verge" all the way up to "I can be very cruel" and then return the vocal with "If you don't stop the groove". Since this is the part where the music breaks down I don't think the lack of a vocal will sound out of place.

Yes, I didn't mean that the whole line needed to be removed. Just that was the only problematic part

BombSquad said:

^^yet recently on that Disney+ thread you said:

Genesia said:

Wouldn't it be better to watch the uncut movie with your child and discuss with him how views that were commonplace in an earlier time have evolved - and how we are better for it?

For my part, I am glad that Turner Classic Movies has stood by its commitment to always show movies in their original form - absolutely uncut, no matter how uncomfortable it is. Of course, they always include a disclaimer every time they show Holiday Inn (for example). But that is a small price to pay to not participate in the current cancel culture.

now show of hands: How many of those who think the racist films are just fine and dandy are white?

We'll wait …

so what now. censor or not?


"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
ban this!!!! cause murder is certainly not more accpetable than rape, is it?

what a phoney double standard

[Edited 1/8/20 7:49am]

I can't believe I actually have to explain this. The difference is obvious: the movies have been released. They have been out in the world for decades - officially. I have never argued in favor of editing or pulling already-officially-released Prince works like Sister or Head or Purple Rain (the movie - with its violence against women) and I never would.

The original versions of Extraloveable and Lust You Always have never had an official release. It is not censorship if the Prince Estate decides not to release tracks it - and no one else - owns.

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.