mbdtyler said:

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

do you think that many men would have had a problem with Vanity threatening to rape them?

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

No. I've given you the proof.
Per Nilsen (his Vault book) - PrinceVault (their website) - Original multitrack tape (with "3 x 2 = 6") that's alongside the other "Vanity 6" tapes (Vault pictures) - BorisFishpaw (his post)

Now it's all on you to believe it or not, but this fact has been confirmed since at least 15+ years now.

I mean, sure. None of that is really great proof, unfortunately. No V6 vocals. No tracklists with it present. No notes from Prince saying it was for them.

.

Prince recorded his own tracks on the same day as tracks for associates many, many, many times. Nothing says this is any different from that. BTW - The Duane Tudahl book does not mention these alleged 83 overdubs. And PrinceVault referred to the 1982 version of Possessed as being from 1983 for years. There's tons of inaccuracies there.

I could go on about what's missing from Duane's book. But that's not the topic though.

Well, they mainly took Duane's book as reference for "Possessed" so you might want to blame Duane for that one. (But the date was estimated though. So it's not like he claimed it was recorded in '83.)

[Edited 1/8/20 13:21pm]

mbdtyler said:

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

I feared someone would reply exactly that, word for word, because it's been said before in threads that covered the topic and this thread goes in an endless loop of arguments that have all been presented before in similar thread, and there will be another one in 2 months... So I thought I didn't need to explain it in the context of the history of provokative feminist artforms. What can I say... Transgression is differerntly transgressive depending on who transgresses what and when in history. It was 1982, several feminist acts were inspired by Prince, Vanity 6 or Apollonia 6 in the next 3 decades... If you think this implies that rape is less horrific when... or that feminist postures don't have feminist connotations if..., I can only encourage you to look at transgressive feminism in the history of arts and what it stood for...

But then again, if transgression involving rape is not allowed anymore, then it's not.

peace

VaultCurator said:

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

I was thinking this but I don't think it's ever been confirmed that it was intended for them. Just that it was recorded during one of their sessions. It could be that the intention was to create a song for them and it evolved into the Prince song we know today (as was the case with some of The Time's tracks from this era, and 'Kiss' later on). The fact that Prince mentions members of his own band implies to me that we're not listening to a guide vocal for Vanity, but something Prince wrote and intended for his own record.

From Princevault: "The song was considered for inclusion on Vanity 6, but it is not known if a version with vocals by Vanity 6 was recorded."

"Was", not "may have been".

Princevault may be wrong but remains very reliable overall. Duane, I'm sure, could tell where this information comes from.

Genesia said:

mbdtyler said:

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

Now, now. Don't mess with databank's fantasy life.

My mom started to touch me and tried to rape me twice, once when I was 12 and the second time when I was 14.

So while I usually ignore your constant disdain towards anything I post, because I often appreciated your contributions and because it's your right to dislike me, on that one I'm gonna invoke my right as a victim to send to hell anyone trying to deny I was a victim of abuse, and say this as I think it: "Self-snip on the next day, after sleeping on it".

Mods please feel free to snip and send me a reprimand, I take responsibility for breaking the rules and I will accept the reprimand as legitimate by said rules, but no one calls my mom trying to rape me my "fantasy life". And I had stated before that I had been a victim of sexual abuse so Genesia may have wondered "by whom" before posting nonsense.

Thank you.

[Edited 1/9/20 7:34am]

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Finally, this is the first time I'm seeing a person acknowledging this fact in years (on the Org). People tend to forget that this song was recorded and intended for Vanity 6. And if it was released with Vanity's vocals, the song would've taken a whole different context.

It was not intended for Vanity 6, that is pretty obvious from the lyrics of the song. You know, unless V6 was gonna be backed by the Revolution and he's referring to her clit getting hard enough to explode through her pants.

I want facts and evidence, and I trust Princevault until they're proven wrong (which they sometimes are, but I need evidence).

"clit" could easily have been replaced by "dick" and we know that Prince sometimes sang "girl" and had a girl replavce it by "boy", etc.

So IDK, but I want to know where the Pvault info comes from, and as I hope Duane will clear that out in a future book, then we'll know.

[Edited 1/8/20 13:40pm]

databank said:

LoveGalore said:

It was not intended for Vanity 6, that is pretty obvious from the lyrics of the song. You know, unless V6 was gonna be backed by the Revolution and he's referring to her clit getting hard enough to explode through her pants.

I want facts and evidence, and I trust Princevault until they're proven worng (which they sometimes are, but I need evidence).

I'm not seeing any real facts or evidence of the intention for V6 though. They're saying it is this way because... What? It is present on a certain tape? That's not evidence. Again, associate songs and Prince songs have lived on the same tape.

LoveGalore said:

databank said:

I want facts and evidence, and I trust Princevault until they're proven worng (which they sometimes are, but I need evidence).

I'm not seeing any real facts or evidence of the intention for V6 though. They're saying it is this way because... What? It is present on a certain tape? That's not evidence. Again, associate songs and Prince songs have lived on the same tape.

We don't know why they are saying this. When we know we can decide, and we will hopefully know eventually, but I know from my occasional interactions with them that they demand evidence before changing/adding an info on the site, which is the way to go.

So until someone prove them wrong, my money's on them, not you or anyone else.

databank said:

Genesia said:

Now, now. Don't mess with databank's fantasy life.

My mom started to touch me and tried to rape me twice, once when I was 12 and the second time when I was 14.

So while I usually ignore your constant disdain towards anything I post, because I often appreciated your contributions and because it's your right to dislike me, on that one I'm gonna invoke my right as a victim to send to hell anyone trying to deny I was a victim of abuse, and say this as I think it: "Go fuck yourself, bitch".

Mods please feel free to snip and send me a reprimand, I take responsibility for breaking the rules and I will accept the reprimand as legitimate by said rules, but no one calls my mom trying to rape me my "fantasy life". And I had stated before that I had been a victim of sexual abuse so Genesia may have wondered "by whom" before posting nonsense.

Thank you.

I really dont think genesia was referring to your own personal experience but about Vanity being the overtly sexpot staying that SHE..VANITY was on the verge of rape etc.

rdhull said:

databank said:

My mom started to touch me and tried to rape me twice, once when I was 12 and the second time when I was 14.

So while I usually ignore your constant disdain towards anything I post, because I often appreciated your contributions and because it's your right to dislike me, on that one I'm gonna invoke my right as a victim to send to hell anyone trying to deny I was a victim of abuse, and say this as I think it: "Go fuck yourself, bitch".

Mods please feel free to snip and send me a reprimand, I take responsibility for breaking the rules and I will accept the reprimand as legitimate by said rules, but no one calls my mom trying to rape me my "fantasy life". And I had stated before that I had been a victim of sexual abuse so Genesia may have wondered "by whom" before posting nonsense.

Thank you.

I really dont think genesia was referring to your own personal experience but about Vanity being the overtly sexpot staying that SHE..VANITY was on the verge of rape etc.

Maybe so, but she implied I thought being raped by a female turned me on, and that it was why I found it more tolerable, when it's not even if it's Vanity. I expressed a perspective that was in connection to a certain submovement in feminist arts history, not in relation to my own personal fantasies of which she knows nothing of.

databank said:

LoveGalore said:

I'm not seeing any real facts or evidence of the intention for V6 though. They're saying it is this way because... What? It is present on a certain tape? That's not evidence. Again, associate songs and Prince songs have lived on the same tape.

We don't know why they are saying this. When we know we can decide, and we will hopefully know eventually, but I know from my occasional interactions with them that they demand evidence before changing/adding an info on the site, which is the way to go.

So until someone prove them wrong, my money's on them, not you or anyone else.

They demanded evidence for the inspiration behind LRC? Interesting.

rdhull said:

databank said:

My mom started to touch me and tried to rape me twice, once when I was 12 and the second time when I was 14.

So while I usually ignore your constant disdain towards anything I post, because I often appreciated your contributions and because it's your right to dislike me, on that one I'm gonna invoke my right as a victim to send to hell anyone trying to deny I was a victim of abuse, and say this as I think it: "Go fuck yourself, bitch".

Mods please feel free to snip and send me a reprimand, I take responsibility for breaking the rules and I will accept the reprimand as legitimate by said rules, but no one calls my mom trying to rape me my "fantasy life". And I had stated before that I had been a victim of sexual abuse so Genesia may have wondered "by whom" before posting nonsense.

Thank you.

I really dont think genesia was referring to your own personal experience but about Vanity being the overtly sexpot staying that SHE..VANITY was on the verge of rape etc.

Perhaps she'd think twice before bullying people next time.

LoveGalore said:

databank said:

We don't know why they are saying this. When we know we can decide, and we will hopefully know eventually, but I know from my occasional interactions with them that they demand evidence before changing/adding an info on the site, which is the way to go.

So until someone prove them wrong, my money's on them, not you or anyone else.

They demanded evidence for the inspiration behind LRC? Interesting.

What I meant is that they tend to favor serious research over hearsay and speculation. Uptown and Per Nielsen, whose work was the base for Pvault, said certain things that were eventually proven wrong. They thought their sources reliable and had reason to do so. No researchers make no mistakes, and that's why ongoing research such as Duane's is extremely useful. I wouldn't make fun over these people making mistakes, they're really doing their best. Now that's me, my experiences in life led me to chose to put my trust there. If you don't, I respect it, but I still chose to trust those sources more than most others.

LoveGalore said:

databank said:

We don't know why they are saying this. When we know we can decide, and we will hopefully know eventually, but I know from my occasional interactions with them that they demand evidence before changing/adding an info on the site, which is the way to go.

So until someone prove them wrong, my money's on them, not you or anyone else.

They demanded evidence for the inspiration behind LRC? Interesting.

No they didn't. They used as reference the interview she did after Prince's death. At the time, they wrote in their description that she was the inspiration for "Little Red Corvette", basically taking her word.

Then last month, they decided to fix the description by saying that she came forward to claim that she was the inspiration for the song. The fix was done after an interview Lisa Coleman did in celebration for the "1999 Deluxe" release, where she thinks Prince came up with the song while in the back of her pink 1964 Mercury Montclair Marauder, making out with Vanity.

And PrinceVault mentioned that quote as well.

[Edited 1/8/20 14:11pm]

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

They demanded evidence for the inspiration behind LRC? Interesting.

No they didn't. They used as reference the interview she did after Prince's death. At the time, they wrote in their description that she was the inspiration for "Little Red Corvette", basically taking her word.

Then last month, they decided to fix the description by saying that she came forward to claim that she was the inspiration for the song. The fix was done after an interview Lisa Coleman did in celebration for the "1999 Deluxe" release, where she thinks Prince came up with the song while in the back of her pink 1964 Mercury Montclair Marauder, making out with Vanity.

And PrinceVault mentioned that quote as well.

[Edited 1/8/20 14:11pm]

I didn't check the page but if everything is sourced like then it's supercool. Pvault are really doing their job when they source the stuff. Then everyone can judge 4 themselves.

TheSilentMikey said:

Yep, I'm aware. I was being sarcastic mostly because it's an irrelevant bit of info anyway so to add it at all was weird in the first place. It's gossip - not archival facts.

CAL3 said:

First of all the masters for those 2 trax were not destroyed so there4 he wanted them released otherwise he would have destroyed them. As 4 entitlement all have the entitlement to anything that's in the vault because we are prepared to pay 4 the songs and Prince wanted the songs to be heard. The masters are in the vault so it can be released. But All those against those 2 songs would never admit it. The 1999 cover with a penis as 1 do you approve of that? Should that be re printed to the number 1. Should we eliminate Lady Cab Driver as well.

SoulAlive said:

mbdtyler said:

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

do you think that many men would have had a problem with Vanity threatening to rape them?

It's not exactly rape if the men are willing and consenting, is it? I can't believe I actually have to explain this, holy shit...

VaultCurator said:

I resent the notion that the fans who wanted these songs are "entitled". We're disappointed. We're allowed to be disappointed, or are you going to take that away from us as well?

Now that u mention it,

LoveGalore said:

BombSquad said:

^^ it was just an attempt for a copout to hide her phoney double-standards

Yeah... Funny how it isn't until now that she starts crowing about this stuff.

.

https://prince.org/msg/7/394966

.

But I guess everyone's opinions can evolve right? lol. BTW, according to that thread, the only person who called out that they were skeeved out by the rape lyrics was.... drumroll... a guy.

Please are we really digging up nearly decade old threads jshdfhajgh

PurpleSullivan said:

LoveGalore said:

Yeah... Funny how it isn't until now that she starts crowing about this stuff.

.

https://prince.org/msg/7/394966

.

But I guess everyone's opinions can evolve right? lol. BTW, according to that thread, the only person who called out that they were skeeved out by the rape lyrics was.... drumroll... a guy.

Please are we really digging up nearly decade old threads jshdfhajgh

the Disney+ thread about showing original movies in thier original form (which I agree on) was not a decade ago, just a few weeks.
hence she dropped the subject and ran away LMFAO

PurpleSullivan said:

Digging up? The custom search field is there for a reason. Just showing there's no precedent and that she's just being a bully as always.

Galaxy said:

The masters are in the vault so it can be released. But All those against those 2 songs would never admit it. The 1999 cover with a penis as 1 do you approve of that? Should that be re printed to the number 1. Should we eliminate Lady Cab Driver as well.

.

Burning the former vault contents is the only way to be sure.

.

Q.E.D.

Censorship is evil.

Galaxy said:

CAL3 said:

.

Prince said a lot of things in this lifetime.

.

Prince followed through on a lot, and he changed his mind about a lot.

.

No plan was left in place. Everything is speculation.

.

Some fans will do almost anything to justify their sense of entitlement.

First of all the masters for those 2 trax were not destroyed so there4 he wanted them released otherwise he would have destroyed them. As 4 entitlement all have the entitlement to anything that's in the vault because we are prepared to pay 4 the songs and Prince wanted the songs to be heard. The masters are in the vault so it can be released. But All those against those 2 songs would never admit it. The 1999 cover with a penis as 1 do you approve of that? Should that be re printed to the number 1. Should we eliminate Lady Cab Driver as well.

.

First of all - I'm not and have never argued for the altering/editing/censoring/changing of any of Prince's work. So take that to some other person's post, not mine.

.

Second - YOU are not entitled to ANYTHING other than what the Estate chooses to allow you to purchase. That's it. Nothing else. That's what you get, take it or leave it. You - or anything - can bitch and moan about what shoulda/woulda/coulda, but no one is entitled to ANY songs that the Estate has chosen to keep vaulted. End of story. Just the way it is.

.

Third - do you (or anyone) REALLY honestly truly 100% believe that anything in the vault that Prince did not destroy was meant for public consumption? Please.

CAL3 said:

Galaxy said:

CAL3 said: First of all the masters for those 2 trax were not destroyed so there4 he wanted them released otherwise he would have destroyed them. As 4 entitlement all have the entitlement to anything that's in the vault because we are prepared to pay 4 the songs and Prince wanted the songs to be heard. The masters are in the vault so it can be released. But All those against those 2 songs would never admit it. The 1999 cover with a penis as 1 do you approve of that? Should that be re printed to the number 1. Should we eliminate Lady Cab Driver as well.

.

First of all - I'm not and have never argued for the altering/editing/censoring/changing of any of Prince's work. So take that to some other person's post, not mine.

.

Second - YOU are not entitled to ANYTHING other than what the Estate chooses to allow you to purchase. That's it. Nothing else. That's what you get, take it or leave it. You - or anything - can bitch and moan about what shoulda/woulda/coulda, but no one is entitled to ANY songs that the Estate has chosen to keep vaulted. End of story. Just the way it is.

.

Third - do you (or anyone) REALLY honestly truly 100% believe that anything in the vault that Prince did not destroy was meant for public consumption? Please.

You gotta know there's porn in there somewhere.

Genesia said:

That must have been destroyed he was paranoid confirmed by many he worked with Chaka Morris Hayes etc.

CAL3 said:

Galaxy said:

CAL3 said: First of all the masters for those 2 trax were not destroyed so there4 he wanted them released otherwise he would have destroyed them. As 4 entitlement all have the entitlement to anything that's in the vault because we are prepared to pay 4 the songs and Prince wanted the songs to be heard. The masters are in the vault so it can be released. But All those against those 2 songs would never admit it. The 1999 cover with a penis as 1 do you approve of that? Should that be re printed to the number 1. Should we eliminate Lady Cab Driver as well.

.

First of all - I'm not and have never argued for the altering/editing/censoring/changing of any of Prince's work. So take that to some other person's post, not mine.

.

Second - YOU are not entitled to ANYTHING other than what the Estate chooses to allow you to purchase. That's it. Nothing else. That's what you get, take it or leave it. You - or anything - can bitch and moan about what shoulda/woulda/coulda, but no one is entitled to ANY songs that the Estate has chosen to keep vaulted. End of story. Just the way it is.

.

Third - do you (or anyone) REALLY honestly truly 100% believe that anything in the vault that Prince did not destroy was meant for public consumption? Please.

Why do you care if people want all of it?

CAL3 said:

Do you work 4 the estate or Michael Howe and co.
Entitlement to hear see anything that Prince recorded whether we like the songs or not.
That was Prince was about he wanted to be remembered as a songwriter out of all his amazing talent. Yes songwriter lyrics etc included. Not Estate or Michael Howe and Co views on songs that they have a problem with. Like I said b4 there is nothing serious about them trax.

Yes I believe the vault material was not there to be destroyed because he and band members in past have said they did destroy certain trax. Wally was one of them.
He might have reworked those songs on a later date but Prince was all about getting the music out. What he did afterwards its something else.
People are to touchy

I’m not losing sleep over then not being included. I am absolutely enthralled with 1999 Deluxe as it is.

Just wanted to chime in and say the suggestion to fade “Extraloveable” early would bum me out, as the synth freak outs and screams (not the lyrics) during the controversial section are my favorite part of the song.

Moonbeam said:

Agree with you 100 percent about the Extraloveable
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