Rimshottbob said:

Okay, so if we were going to try and frame this in a reasonable way, and avoid all the name calling and nonsense going on in this thread, and actually look at the topic sensibly, here's my take.

I believe that Extra Loveable and Lust U Always should have been released, uncensored, on 1999 super Deluxe.

Firstly, I don't believe that anyone has the right to be offended about anything when it comes to art. If you don't like something, you simply ignore it. (I speak from experience on this.)

Secondly, those two songs actually fall right in to the overarching thematic context of what Prince was doing on 1999.

The whole project, when you look at the original album, and the outtakes, is about EDGES.

It's about finding edges, pushing boundaries, experimenting with the taboo. Obsession, lust, sexual perversion, domination, submissiveness, passion, love... all these things come into play again and again through these songs.

I believe this was partly because Prince was at an age - and stage in his career - where he was defining himself as he broke through to a wider audience, seeing what he could get away with, what barriers he could break down.... and this attitude, approach and exploration actually became the theme of the 1999 project for him, I think.

Of course, in the final estimation, the record needed a hit, so the song 1999 came along, which isn't as dark as some of the other stuff on there, but even that is about pushing boundaries in its own way - about partying in the face of the apocalypse... but altogether, this was a record about going the extra mile - fucking the taste out of your mouth, getting nasty, fully committing to a feeling, an experience, giving in to those carnal desires that are just there, ignoring whether or not those feelings are considered socially acceptable.

And it's for this reason the rape lyrics in the two omitted songs make sense, in the context of the project as a whole. I truly believe it's important to consider them without resorting to 'if you're okay with this then you're sick' hysteria...

Prince was simply exploring another avenue of the taboo. It's just he hit on an area that people really can't deal with. I guess if he had sung about having sex with a dead person, some people would have the same reaction.... but I feel it's important to detach the actual act from the reference to the act.

For me, this new attitude of cancel culture is a very damaging one... of course, we all need to be nicer to each other... but if we can't differentiate actually being nice to one another, from art that discusses the darker and more unpleasant aspects of life and society, we're pretty much shot, culturally, I think.

It really has nothing to do with 'condoning rape' to say that you wish these songs were released in their entirety... and I don't believe for one second that Prince was condoning rape when he made these recordings... he was testing limits, finding his edges... it turns out his edges stopped short of mentioning rape, as he never released the tracks as they are, but that doesn't mean that we should never be able to consider them or discuss them in a rational way.

I also don't believe for a second that releasing these would tarnish Prince's legacy. I think people might be surprised if they learned how little the world at large actually cares about Prince, particularly now that he's no longer with us... as the quote from 'Pride and Prejudice' goes; 'you'd spend a lot less time worrying what other people think of you, if you realised how seldom they do'.

That's my thoughts on all this... anyone else have any thoughts to add? I'd love to be able to discuss this in a reasonable way.

You said it so perfectly.

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

I was thinking this but I don't think it's ever been confirmed that it was intended for them. Just that it was recorded during one of their sessions. It could be that the intention was to create a song for them and it evolved into the Prince song we know today (as was the case with some of The Time's tracks from this era, and 'Kiss' later on). The fact that Prince mentions members of his own band implies to me that we're not listening to a guide vocal for Vanity, but something Prince wrote and intended for his own record.

Genesia said:

BombSquad said:

^^yet recently on that Disney+ thread you said:

now show of hands: How many of those who think the racist films are just fine and dandy are white?

We'll wait …

so what now. censor or not?


"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
ban this!!!! cause murder is certainly not more accpetable than rape, is it?

what a phoney double standard

I can't believe I actually have to explain this. The difference is obvious: the movies have been released. They have been out in the world for decades - officially. I have never argued in favor of editing or pulling already-officially-released Prince works like Sister or Head or Purple Rain (the movie - with its violence against women) and I never would.

The original versions of Extraloveable and Lust You Always have never had an official release. It is not censorship if the Prince Estate decides not to release tracks it - and no one else - owns.

that's technical nitpicking.
so if the estate decided to release the songs, you would be fully okay supporting the decision? not what I am getting from you in this thread LOL

and for sure if something is released or unreleased has nothing to do with this clear bait post of yours:
Show of hands: How many of those who think the rapey songs are just fine and dandy are men?
We'll wait …


at least have the guts to admit you got caught

udo said:

rednblue said:

rednblue said:

udo said:

But not liking things is a separate issue from edits. A person can dislike (or feel even more strongly about) a thing and also be against removing anything when songs are released. I mean, I absolutely love the entirety of many, many P songs from many eras. But even fans like me are extremely unlikely to “like” every single part of every single song. So doesn’t this definition of “full fan” make a full fan a very rare thing? [Edited 1/5/20 10:38am]

.

Not liking `Purple & Gold` is different from this issue.

It is a Politicially Correctness endeavor on lyrics versus musical (not lyrical) taste.

Sorry to maybe disappoint , but I wasn't thinking of Purple and Gold.

Also, in the case of this thread, my thoughts were in fact all about taste in lyrics. To repeat from my earlier post, "not liking things is a separate issue from edits." In general, P's way with lyrics is a big part of what makes me a massive fan. But there are lyrics I don't like. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that amidst P's vast lyrical output, most P fans would find dislike(s).

So yes, I'm presumptuous enough to guess that when it comes to lyrics, plenty of us are not what you would describe as "full fans."

According to Morris Hayes, P asked for versions of the music with curse words taken out. That was P at this (later) time. At an earlier time, P believed in releasing music with curse words. I'm not trying to focus on curse words in particular here. I'm trying to focus on how most of us have sensibilities that go through changes over the course of our lives.

FWIW, I'm against removing anything when songs are released.

Edited to add: If anyone with permission (including Prince ) wanted to make clearly identified edited "later versions" or remixes, that's a different matter.

Now that Prince is no longer with us, I want to hear what is in the vault without any words edited.

[Edited 1/8/20 9:40am]

Genesia said:

^^ it was just an attempt for a copout to hide her phoney double-standards

Rimshottbob said:

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

mbdtyler said:

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

Now, now. Don't mess with databank's fantasy life.

Rimshottbob said:

Okay, so if we were going to try and frame this in a reasonable way, and avoid all the name calling and nonsense going on in this thread, and actually look at the topic sensibly, here's my take.

I believe that Extra Loveable and Lust U Always should have been released, uncensored, on 1999 super Deluxe.

Firstly, I don't believe that anyone has the right to be offended about anything when it comes to art. If you don't like something, you simply ignore it. (I speak from experience on this.)

Secondly, those two songs actually fall right in to the overarching thematic context of what Prince was doing on 1999.

The whole project, when you look at the original album, and the outtakes, is about EDGES.

It's about finding edges, pushing boundaries, experimenting with the taboo. Obsession, lust, sexual perversion, domination, submissiveness, passion, love... all these things come into play again and again through these songs.

I believe this was partly because Prince was at an age - and stage in his career - where he was defining himself as he broke through to a wider audience, seeing what he could get away with, what barriers he could break down.... and this attitude, approach and exploration actually became the theme of the 1999 project for him, I think.

Of course, in the final estimation, the record needed a hit, so the song 1999 came along, which isn't as dark as some of the other stuff on there, but even that is about pushing boundaries in its own way - about partying in the face of the apocalypse... but altogether, this was a record about going the extra mile - fucking the taste out of your mouth, getting nasty, fully committing to a feeling, an experience, giving in to those carnal desires that are just there, ignoring whether or not those feelings are considered socially acceptable.

And it's for this reason the rape lyrics in the two omitted songs make sense, in the context of the project as a whole. I truly believe it's important to consider them without resorting to 'if you're okay with this then you're sick' hysteria...

Prince was simply exploring another avenue of the taboo. It's just he hit on an area that people really can't deal with. I guess if he had sung about having sex with a dead person, some people would have the same reaction.... but I feel it's important to detach the actual act from the reference to the act.

For me, this new attitude of cancel culture is a very damaging one... of course, we all need to be nicer to each other... but if we can't differentiate actually being nice to one another, from art that discusses the darker and more unpleasant aspects of life and society, we're pretty much shot, culturally, I think.

It really has nothing to do with 'condoning rape' to say that you wish these songs were released in their entirety... and I don't believe for one second that Prince was condoning rape when he made these recordings... he was testing limits, finding his edges... it turns out his edges stopped short of mentioning rape, as he never released the tracks as they are, but that doesn't mean that we should never be able to consider them or discuss them in a rational way.

I also don't believe for a second that releasing these would tarnish Prince's legacy. I think people might be surprised if they learned how little the world at large actually cares about Prince, particularly now that he's no longer with us... as the quote from 'Pride and Prejudice' goes; 'you'd spend a lot less time worrying what other people think of you, if you realised how seldom they do'.

That's my thoughts on all this... anyone else have any thoughts to add? I'd love to be able to discuss this in a reasonable way.

Hi Rimshottbob,

I agree with djThunderfunk & SoulAlive that this is a great post. The only part I'd take issue with (and this is probably me just being pedantic) is the line "I don't believe that anyone has the right to be offended about anything when it comes to art".

Nobody can help what they are offended by whether it be art or not. If I were being callous I'd add that people who are offended by a piece of art do not have the right to have everybody else involved actually care. If they are offended by something then that's a personal position, an emotional reaction which I would afford anybody the right to. I'd also defend their freedom of speech to complain about it until they are blue in the face if they feel inclined. All the same, should any artist feel obligated to self censor because someone is offended. Hell no! That's the offended person's issue, not the artist's.

I also agree that if you are offended by a piece of media then the best course of action is to avoid it and go about your day.

mbdtyler said:

...that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism.

Depends which feminist you ask

Genesia said:

mbdtyler said:

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

Now, now. Don't mess with databank's fantasy life.

BombSquad said:

^^ it was just an attempt for a copout to hide her phoney double-standards

Yeah... Funny how it isn't until now that she starts crowing about this stuff.

.

https://prince.org/msg/7/394966

.

But I guess everyone's opinions can evolve right? lol. BTW, according to that thread, the only person who called out that they were skeeved out by the rape lyrics was.... drumroll... a guy.

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

Finally, this is the first time I'm seeing a person acknowledging this fact in years (on the Org). People tend to forget that this song was recorded and intended for Vanity 6. And if it was released with Vanity's vocals, the song would've taken a whole different context.

TheSilentMikey said:

databank said:

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that apparently, Xtraloveable was intended for Vanity 6?

In the context of what V6 represented at the time before it was known Prince was behind every song, and still represents in the electronica community (a sexually provocative, emancipated female trio that inspired many an electroclash act such as Peaches or Avenue D.), the rape line in the mouth of a woman would suddenly take a strong feminist connotation that would have been in line with what V6 stood for, women who made fun of male objectification while assessing their independance.

Again, maybe not now given the Weinstein trial and the general context, but liner notes could also perfectly put this song in context on a future release.

Finally, this is the first time I'm seeing a person acknowledging this fact in years (on the Org). People tend to forget that this song was recorded and intended for Vanity 6. And if it was released with Vanity's vocals, the song would've taken a whole different context.

It was not intended for Vanity 6, that is pretty obvious from the lyrics of the song. You know, unless V6 was gonna be backed by the Revolution and he's referring to her clit getting hard enough to explode through her pants.

TheSilentMikey said:

And if it was released with Vanity's vocals, the song would've taken a whole different context.

It would have been fucking hot as well!

Genesia said:

mbdtyler said:

Rape isn't any less horrific when performed by women. A woman threatening to rape someone doesn't have 'feminist connotations', that's an incredibly skewed view of feminism. The idea is to minimize the amount of sexual assault in this world, not to dish it out to others in some misguided attempt at reclamation.

Now, now. Don't mess with databank's fantasy life.

Want to derail the topic again? Your last comments have been (so far) useless and irrelevant (just stating your personal opinion on an unrelated topic and lamentably trying to trigger people). So I suggest you stay to the topic, it would be good for everyone of us, and likely you too.

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Finally, this is the first time I'm seeing a person acknowledging this fact in years (on the Org). People tend to forget that this song was recorded and intended for Vanity 6. And if it was released with Vanity's vocals, the song would've taken a whole different context.

It was not intended for Vanity 6, that is pretty obvious from the lyrics of the song. You know, unless V6 was gonna be backed by the Revolution and he's referring to her clit getting hard enough to explode through her pants.

It was intended for Vanity 6 (confirmed by Per Nilsen and PrinceVault). The lyrics were of course from Prince's POV but Vanity was obviously going to overdub her vocals from her POV.

The "shout-outs" were done in May '83, when Dez left and Wendy joined. At that point, "Extra Loveable" was no longer for Vanity 6.

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

It was not intended for Vanity 6, that is pretty obvious from the lyrics of the song. You know, unless V6 was gonna be backed by the Revolution and he's referring to her clit getting hard enough to explode through her pants.

It was intended for Vanity 6 (confirmed by Per Nilsen and PrinceVault). The lyrics were of course from Prince's POV but Vanity was obviously going to overdub her vocals from her POV.

The "shout-outs" were done in May '83, when Dez left and Wendy joined. At that point, "Extra Loveable" was no longer for Vanity 6.

PrinceVault also says Mi-Ling Stone inspired Little Red Corvette and many other inaccuracies. I wouldn't take it as gospel. And all due respect to Per, but even he can be wrong about something. Prince sang all of the V6 songs from the perspective of V6. This one was not. I'm afraid the writing is on the wall.

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

It was intended for Vanity 6 (confirmed by Per Nilsen and PrinceVault). The lyrics were of course from Prince's POV but Vanity was obviously going to overdub her vocals from her POV.

The "shout-outs" were done in May '83, when Dez left and Wendy joined. At that point, "Extra Loveable" was no longer for Vanity 6.

PrinceVault also says Mi-Ling Stone inspired Little Red Corvette and many other inaccuracies. I wouldn't take it as gospel. And all due respect to Per, but even he can be wrong about something. Prince sang all of the V6 songs from the perspective of V6. This one was not. I'm afraid the writing is on the wall.

Nope, they modified their description, now saying that she claims to be the inspiration for "Little Red Corvette" and not that she is.

He can be wrong about some things yes, but he wasn't wrong about that one. It's been confirmed. There's evidence out there. You can also look at the Vault pics, the song was recorded on the same day as "3 x 2 = 6" and you can see the tape (credited to Vanity 6).

And we can't say that he sang all of the V6 songs in their perspective as we don't even have all of them in his guide vocals.

The same thing happened for "Manic Monday". He recorded the song with his POV. Then Apollonia (with Brenda & Jill) overdubbed her vocals from her POV. You can hear the difference in a specific lyric : "But when (she/he) tells me in (her's/his) bedroom's voice".

VaultCurator said:

TheSilentMikey said:

It was intended for Vanity 6 (confirmed by Per Nilsen and PrinceVault). The lyrics were of course from Prince's POV but Vanity was obviously going to overdub her vocals from her POV.

The "shout-outs" were done in May '83, when Dez left and Wendy joined. At that point, "Extra Loveable" was no longer for Vanity 6.

. Hi Mikey, . I'm only speculating here but I was under the assumption that Prince gave a shout out to all the members of his band in 82 (including Dez) and then he dubbed "Hey Dez, don't you like my band" over Dez's shout out in 83. . Is it just me or does Prince's vocal sound a little softer / closer to the mic on the one line alone? . It might be more noticeable if we had an actual official release!

He gave shout-outs to everyone during the '83 overdubs, even referring to Wendy's arrival at the very end of the song: "Break Wendy!".

BombSquad (thanks!) quoted a lyric that's been in my head throughout these discussions:

"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"

As an aside, Cash said something to the effect of wanting to portray a thought at the bottom of the moral barrel with this line. Also, that wasn't the first song released with a lyric about killing someone simply to watch the death.

Also wondering if people think these P songs have a place in the discussion. I'm not trying to equate these examples in the way of any quality or quantitiy. Also, apologies in advance, as the choice of examples is just a rough pull, and some surely feel there's no point in any posted here in the first place.

-- as others have noted, the story told on Bob George

-- "Every schoolboy's fantasy she was, that's why he had 2 wait"

-- "Here's a church, here's a steeple
Here's a muthafucka that I gotta blow away
Here's my chance 2 cure the ills of the people
But not until I make this muthafucka pay"

--And Purple Music, noted by a couple of others, including in this description ("...'coerced' into something by the person he is working for...") from OldFriends4Sale (thanks!):

"It's time 4 ur morning bath, sir
What would U like 2 bathe n this morning?
With all due respect sir, I think that it...
I think that it might...
Oh, oh no
I... don't wanna play anymore
I don't want 2 play anymore"

To answer OldFriends4Sale's question, the Purple Music lyrics are unedited on 1999 deluxe.

FWIW, I don't want lyrics edited when songs are released from the vault.

Also, when I hear the song, my nutty brain doesn’t necessarily envision “sir” as a separate person, or maybe doesn’t necessarily envision “sir” as a “person” at all, depending on view of things. But, as described by OldFriends4Sale, the scenario can readily be envisioned as involving a "person [someone] is working for."

So, now that I've undoubtedly managed to annoy people of any and all perspectives with my nutty examples/potential envisionings of songs, I'll blunder on and venture a question.

Do people who oppose release of (unedited) Lust U Always and Extralovable have qualms about release of Purple Music?

[Edited 1/10/20 6:22am]

TheSilentMikey said:

VaultCurator said:

TheSilentMikey said:

You can also look at the Vault pics, the song was recorded on the same day as "3 x 2 = 6" and you can see the tape (credited to Vanity 6).

Damn! If a Vanity version exists I'd love to hear it. They should double A side it with Vibrator.

It's credited to Vanity 6, but it's Prince's version. He did the same thing with "The Time" on certain tapes (The "My Love Belongs To You - "Velvet Kitty Cat" tape as an example).

(But I could be wrong and the multitrack tape is actually credited to Prince.)

[Edited 1/8/20 11:27am]

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Nope, they modified their description, now saying that she claims to be the inspiration for "Little Red Corvette" and not that she is.

He can be wrong about some things yes, but he wasn't wrong about that one. It's been confirmed. There's evidence out there. You can also look at the Vault pics, the song was recorded on the same day as "3 x 2 = 6" and you can see the tape (credited to Vanity 6).

And we can't say that he sang all of the V6 songs in their perspective as we don't even have all of them in his guide vocals.

The same thing happened for "Manic Monday". He recorded the song with his POV. Then Apollonia (with Brenda & Jill) overdubbed her vocals from her POV. You can hear the difference in a specific lyric : "But when (she/he) tells me in (her's/his) bedroom's voice".

So then are we to assume Can't Stop This Feeling I Got was too since it was on the same tape as Jealous Girl? Unless you're implying there are vocals for a V6 version, I'll remain unconvinced. Remember, even Susan Rogers was under the impression that Manic Monday was going to be (and should've been) his song. We don't have all of their songs on guide vocals but we do in fact have songs like No Call U and Make-Up where he's clearly singing from the perspective of a woman. I'd say Sex Shooter also sounds like it is clearly from the perspective of a woman given his falsetto and it's tone in that song.

Technically it's not, as he scrapped the title. But we don't know the full story of that tape so I won't try to guess what happened or anything.

Likely. It's still uncertain on my part if she recorded any vocals for the song. Well that's unfortunate because like I've said, there's proof that the song was indeed for Vanity 6.

Okay. That does not mean that he could sing a certain song from his POV and not intend it for a female singer with the intention to change the lyrics from a male's perspective to a female's perspective. ("Sex Shooter" is indeed from a woman's perspective.)

This was Rogers' personal opinion, not a fact. (And she wasn't there, she didn't engineer the session. Peggy did.)

The fact is "Manic Monday" was recorded with his vocals (and his background vox), with his POV of the lyrics, and considered it for "Apollonia 6" as soon as he finished the track. Even tried to get Susan and Apollonia to record their vocals the same night he finished his, but they were at some club and he decided to join them and continue the next day.

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said: So then are we to assume Can't Stop This Feeling I Got was too since it was on the same tape as Jealous Girl? Unless you're implying there are vocals for a V6 version, I'll remain unconvinced. Remember, even Susan Rogers was under the impression that Manic Monday was going to be (and should've been) his song. We don't have all of their songs on guide vocals but we do in fact have songs like No Call U and Make-Up where he's clearly singing from the perspective of a woman. I'd say Sex Shooter also sounds like it is clearly from the perspective of a woman given his falsetto and it's tone in that song.

Technically it's not, as he scrapped the title. But we don't know the full story of that tape so I won't try to guess what happened or anything.

Likely. It's still uncertain on my part if she recorded any vocals for the song. Well that's unfortunate because like I've said, there's proof that the song was indeed for Vanity 6.

Okay. That does not mean that he could sing a certain song from his POV and not intend it for a female singer with the intention to change the lyrics from a male's perspective to a female's perspective. ("Sex Shooter" is indeed from a woman's perspective.)

This was Rogers' personal opinion, not a fact. (And she wasn't there, she didn't engineer the session. Peggy did.)

The fact is "Manic Monday" was recorded with his vocals (and his background vox), with his POV of the lyrics, and considered it for "Apollonia 6" as soon as he finished the track. Even tried to get Susan and Apollonia to record their vocals the same night he finished his, but they were at some club and he decided to join them and continue the next day.

So then what is the proof? Or is it one of those sacred secrets that nobody's allowed to know? lol.

LoveGalore said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Technically it's not, as he scrapped the title. But we don't know the full story of that tape so I won't try to guess what happened or anything.

Likely. It's still uncertain on my part if she recorded any vocals for the song. Well that's unfortunate because like I've said, there's proof that the song was indeed for Vanity 6.

Okay. That does not mean that he could sing a certain song from his POV and not intend it for a female singer with the intention to change the lyrics from a male's perspective to a female's perspective. ("Sex Shooter" is indeed from a woman's perspective.)

This was Rogers' personal opinion, not a fact. (And she wasn't there, she didn't engineer the session. Peggy did.)

The fact is "Manic Monday" was recorded with his vocals (and his background vox), with his POV of the lyrics, and considered it for "Apollonia 6" as soon as he finished the track. Even tried to get Susan and Apollonia to record their vocals the same night he finished his, but they were at some club and he decided to join them and continue the next day.

So then what is the proof? Or is it one of those sacred secrets that nobody's allowed to know? lol.

No. I've given you the proof.
Per Nilsen (his Vault book) - PrinceVault (their website) - Original multitrack tape (with "3 x 2 = 6") that's alongside the other "Vanity 6" tapes (Vault pictures) - BorisFishpaw (his post)

Now it's all on you to believe it or not, but this fact has been confirmed since at least 15+ years now.

TheSilentMikey said:

LoveGalore said:

So then what is the proof? Or is it one of those sacred secrets that nobody's allowed to know? lol.

No. I've given you the proof.
Per Nilsen (his Vault book) - PrinceVault (their website) - Original multitrack tape (with "3 x 2 = 6") that's alongside the other "Vanity 6" tapes (Vault pictures) - BorisFishpaw (his post)

Now it's all on you to believe it or not, but this fact has been confirmed since at least 15+ years now.

I mean, sure. None of that is really great proof, unfortunately. No V6 vocals. No tracklists with it present. No notes from Prince saying it was for them.

.

Prince recorded his own tracks on the same day as tracks for associates many, many, many times. Nothing says this is any different from that. BTW - The Duane Tudahl book does not mention these alleged 83 overdubs. And PrinceVault referred to the 1982 version of Possessed as being from 1983 for years. There's tons of inaccuracies there.