macaylasdad said:

feeluupp said:

Not entirely true.

The Hits 1

The Hits 2

The Hits/ The B-Sides all sold over a million. As a matter of fact if recertified it would have surpassed over 2 million each in the USA by now.

The Very Best of Prince sold over a million, and since his death is the largest selling Prince album. The Very Best of Prince has sold over 3 million in the USA and should be surpassing the 6 million mark world wide.

The Musicology album would've sold a million even without including the concert tickets which helped it sell over 2 million in the USA alone.

I am not counting greatest hits...I am talking about orginal music release... Musicology... I might conceed, not sure on that. Yes, they give out over a million cds that counted to sales, but I saw 3 three shows... I got 3 cds, but I would never buy that album 3 times over and I am pretty sure the thousands who saw him multipule times for that tour would say they same. Prince was very creative for that.

I think the academic point being made here is that the perception of sales from a 'big star' is one thing but reality is another.

Yes Prince has had massive sales in the region of multiple millions, but those days are long gone and were very short lived.

For a 'global mega star' to scrape one million per album for the last 2+ decades isn't what one would expect from a 'global mega star'.

Even the likes of Janet Jackson, who has released albums relatively infrequently compared to Prince was consistently selling 6-15 million per album before nipple gate!

Ultimately I think Originals is awesome and as with all the artists I like I just hope the performance of a current release will mean there will be a future release - and on it goes!

darkroman said:

macaylasdad said:

I am not counting greatest hits...I am talking about orginal music release... Musicology... I might conceed, not sure on that. Yes, they give out over a million cds that counted to sales, but I saw 3 three shows... I got 3 cds, but I would never buy that album 3 times over and I am pretty sure the thousands who saw him multipule times for that tour would say they same. Prince was very creative for that.

I think the academic point being made here is that the perception of sales from a 'big star' is one thing but reality is another.

Yes Prince has had massive sales in the region of multiple millions, but those days are long gone and were very short lived.

For a 'global mega star' to scrape one million per album for the last 2+ decades isn't what one would expect from a 'global mega star'.

Even the likes of Janet Jackson, who has released albums relatively infrequently compared to Prince was consistently selling 6-15 million per album before nipple gate!

Ultimately I think Originals is awesome and as with all the artists I like I just hope the performance of a current release will mean there will be a future release - and on it goes!

Prince was not part of the Music corporation like Janet. He was an independent artist after the WB split. They (music industry) didn't play his music as much to teach him a lesson and to others who dare challenge the industry. And of course some post WB Prince music wasn't as commercial either. So-you really can't compare album sales post WB.

rdhull said:

You dont get it. Prince is being shown for the art of the music/creativity lately. Thats what these releases are. They are treating him as jazz musician and not a pop star.

I dunno know, the legacy jazz type releases I have are all pretty intense with being transparent about tape sources, grouping with similar sessions, being neurotic with documenting takes and alternates, chronological arragement of outtakes, liner notes as a necessity and not a premium, etc.

Originals is a cool concept, but the moderately wide timespan covered track by track on shuffle sequencing, the unabashed tape melding, mixing and mashing... It's more posthumous 2pac than Coltrane.

[Edited 7/10/19 3:41am]

kewlschool said:

darkroman said:

I think the academic point being made here is that the perception of sales from a 'big star' is one thing but reality is another.

Yes Prince has had massive sales in the region of multiple millions, but those days are long gone and were very short lived.

For a 'global mega star' to scrape one million per album for the last 2+ decades isn't what one would expect from a 'global mega star'.

Even the likes of Janet Jackson, who has released albums relatively infrequently compared to Prince was consistently selling 6-15 million per album before nipple gate!

Ultimately I think Originals is awesome and as with all the artists I like I just hope the performance of a current release will mean there will be a future release - and on it goes!

Prince was not part of the Music corporation like Janet. He was an independent artist after the WB split. They (music industry) didn't play his music as much to teach him a lesson and to others who dare challenge the industry. And of course some post WB Prince music wasn't as commercial either. So-you really can't compare album sales post WB.

I compare Prince's record sales with Janet's sales because they were both signed to majors on a similar timeframe and both had a global market.

Janet's pre-nipple gate massive selling albums were from 1986-2001, during which Prince was mostly under magors; Warners, EMI and BMG (RCA / Arista).

No one was ever out to get Prince, that is a myth I've never heard before.

Sadly it is just a simple case of the legend around Prince isn't backed up by the sales - even throughtout the 90s and beyond.

So I feel all people are saying is that the expectation around Prince sales need to be adjusted to match the realisty.

Yet I'm sure all fans (like me) hope each release sells enough to warrant a further release, and so on!

darkroman said:

macaylasdad said:

I am not counting greatest hits...I am talking about orginal music release... Musicology... I might conceed, not sure on that. Yes, they give out over a million cds that counted to sales, but I saw 3 three shows... I got 3 cds, but I would never buy that album 3 times over and I am pretty sure the thousands who saw him multipule times for that tour would say they same. Prince was very creative for that.

I think the academic point being made here is that the perception of sales from a 'big star' is one thing but reality is another.

Yes Prince has had massive sales in the region of multiple millions, but those days are long gone and were very short lived.

For a 'global mega star' to scrape one million per album for the last 2+ decades isn't what one would expect from a 'global mega star'.

Even the likes of Janet Jackson, who has released albums relatively infrequently compared to Prince was consistently selling 6-15 million per album before nipple gate!

Ultimately I think Originals is awesome and as with all the artists I like I just hope the performance of a current release will mean there will be a future release - and on it goes!

From 1982- 1993, those were his commercial years.

Every album from 82-93 sold millions world wide.

1999 over 7 million, Purple Rain over 20 million, SOTT over 4 million, Lovesexy over 2 million, D&P over 6 million.

in those 11 years he sold over 45 million copies.

darkroman said:

kewlschool said:

Prince was not part of the Music corporation like Janet. He was an independent artist after the WB split. They (music industry) didn't play his music as much to teach him a lesson and to others who dare challenge the industry. And of course some post WB Prince music wasn't as commercial either. So-you really can't compare album sales post WB.

I compare Prince's record sales with Janet's sales because they were both signed to majors on a similar timeframe and both had a global market.

Janet's pre-nipple gate massive selling albums were from 1986-2001, during which Prince was mostly under magors; Warners, EMI and BMG (RCA / Arista).

No one was ever out to get Prince, that is a myth I've never heard before.

Sadly it is just a simple case of the legend around Prince isn't backed up by the sales - even throughtout the 90s and beyond.

So I feel all people are saying is that the expectation around Prince sales need to be adjusted to match the realisty.

Yet I'm sure all fans (like me) hope each release sells enough to warrant a further release, and so on!

Since none of Prince albums have been updated by more platinum status in the USA officially. That shows a lack of care or obvious oversight on the part of the industry. Whereas Licensed to ill continues to get it's props with updated sales info (more platinum status.) Both PR and LTI sold at least 100,000. copies a year from 1990-through 2010. (worldwide). Plus, the amount of CD's made by the industry for an album and actual sales didn't add up? The music companies didn't keep records on how many units where made. Thus, they could make and sell more than they report to the artist. Esentially cutting the artist out of their dues. (Prince and Stevie W. both took to the state legislature in CA to state their case via lawyers.) Also, in the 90's POP radio was consolated and own by music corporations or their apparent companies. So, do you think who got more airplay?-Those in the corporations or those outside of it? After WB contract ended-I never heard a Prince track on my local top 40 pop stations ever again. (Until his death.) The oldies station would play some and the R&B station would play a newer "hit" track. That means no Musicology-no guitar-no black sweat on top 40?

TBH I don't know who is the one responsible to get an album updated and recertified by the RIAA, is it Prince (when he was alive) the estate now? The record label? WB? NPG?

But alot of his albums are way passed their certification limits. The last time Purple Rain was certified was 1996, at 13 Million. Since then it should be minimum 16x Platinum if not more, it's sad because during the release of Purple Rain Deluxe, WB had a small ceremony and gave the Revolution their 13x Platinum plaques, even though it should be much more by now.

Other albums that should be receritifed but never are, The Very Best of Prince, should be at least 3x Platinum in USA, Diamonds & Pearls should be 3x Platinum in USA by now, Dirty Mind for sure should be Platinum, last time it was updated was in 1984 to GOLD.

It's a shame other legacy artists still have their albums always receritified, example BAD was certified DIAMOND (10x Platinum) a few years ago.

kewlschool said:

darkroman said:

I compare Prince's record sales with Janet's sales because they were both signed to majors on a similar timeframe and both had a global market.

Janet's pre-nipple gate massive selling albums were from 1986-2001, during which Prince was mostly under magors; Warners, EMI and BMG (RCA / Arista).

No one was ever out to get Prince, that is a myth I've never heard before.

Sadly it is just a simple case of the legend around Prince isn't backed up by the sales - even throughtout the 90s and beyond.

So I feel all people are saying is that the expectation around Prince sales need to be adjusted to match the realisty.

Yet I'm sure all fans (like me) hope each release sells enough to warrant a further release, and so on!

Since none of Prince albums have been updated by more platinum status in the USA officially. That shows a lack of care or obvious oversight on the part of the industry. Whereas Licensed to ill continues to get it's props with updated sales info (more platinum status.) Both PR and LTI sold at least 100,000. copies a year from 1990-through 2010. (worldwide). Plus, the amount of CD's made by the industry for an album and actual sales didn't add up? The music companies didn't keep records on how many units where made. Thus, they could make and sell more than they report to the artist. Esentially cutting the artist out of their dues. (Prince and Stevie W. both took to the state legislature in CA to state their case via lawyers.) Also, in the 90's POP radio was consolated and own by music corporations or their apparent companies. So, do you think who got more airplay?-Those in the corporations or those outside of it? After WB contract ended-I never heard a Prince track on my local top 40 pop stations ever again. (Until his death.) The oldies station would play some and the R&B station would play a newer "hit" track. That means no Musicology-no guitar-no black sweat on top 40?

Giovanni777 said:

The last two releases were essentially lame. I don't even want either of them, and I'm a hard core fan. I think these diminish his legacy, and he would feel the same. They are releasing these little tid bits, but nothing major (besides the Purple Rain "deluxe" release. Let's hope for the 1999 "deluxe" release. I also want more recent stuff... the intended track list for '20ten', the 'Welcome 2 America' album, 'Black is the New Black', etc.

completely agree

BanishedBrian said:

Giovanni777 said:

The last two releases were essentially lame. I don't even want either of them, and I'm a hard core fan. I think these diminish his legacy, and he would feel the same. They are releasing these little tid bits, but nothing major (besides the Purple Rain "deluxe" release. Let's hope for the 1999 "deluxe" release. I also want more recent stuff... the intended track list for '20ten', the 'Welcome 2 America' album, 'Black is the New Black', etc.

completely agree

not that i disagree, but we are never going to see any music from the vault that Prince recorded in the last 25 years of his life...not from WB or Sony..

FunkyStrange said:

Sooner or later these dopes are going to realise that the general public are not their target market.. amazing they still haven't realised this after three years already...

It will be later, at best.

darkroman said:

RODSERLING said:

Purple Rain promotion was abruptly stopped when it could have triggered more obvious hits such as Beautiful Ones and Darling Nikki.

somehow,I don't think that pop radio would have played "Darling Nikki",for obvious reasons.

But I get your point.The album definitely could have lasted on the charts for a much longer time if Prince had not released ATWIAD so soon.

here we go again people think theyre marketing experts

SoulAlive said:

Anybody know the 3rd week numbers? It dropped to #90 on the U.K. charts in it's 2nd week, dropped to #140 on the U.S. charts.

I am guessing it is completely off by the 3rd week now...

USA third week, Originals is OUT of the Billboard 200, making it the lowest selling Prince album of all time in USA, as well as the shortest time in the Billboard 200 for any of his albums, only staying in the Top 200 for just 2 weeks.

I doubt the recently released deluxe and vinyl editions will do anything to boost sales.

So far, N.E.W.S. has sold a lot more than Originals.

feeluupp said:

USA third week, Originals is OUT of the Billboard 200, making it the lowest selling Prince album of all time in USA, as well as the shortest time in the Billboard 200 for any of his albums, only staying in the Top 200 for just 2 weeks.

I doubt the recently released deluxe and vinyl editions will do anything to boost sales.

So far, N.E.W.S. has sold a lot more than Originals.

You're a broken record. How many times are you going to bring up NEWS? Yes Original's sales are low, EVERYTHING'S sales are low. The Raconteurs' new album debuted at number one and is #155 in its third week. Springsteen's new album plunged 60-166 in its fourth week. After entering at number one Madonna's new album was also off the charts after two weeks (and she had a tour/merch bundle). Consumption is driven by streaming, streaming is driven by young people, and young people aren't checking for all these old artists unless they have a movie to spur interest.

But unlike all the other acts I mentioned, Prince's posthumous albums have very little overhead cost. The music was produced decades ago. The packaging is minimal. There's enough of a profit for Warners and the Estate. Bowie's estate has released several massive box sets that have sold paltry numbers. Elvis still regularly charts 1 or 2 new albums every year with fewer than 100k total copies sold. Dozens and dozens of other deceased artists' estates continue to release albums that don't see a fraction of even the numbers Originals did. Prince is a legacy artist now and these releases are part of that legacy, keeping new albums on the market, keeping his name out there however much they can. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of copies; his albums barely did that when he was alive and touring. And for the record, he's had several albums spend 2 or fewer weeks on the BB200 (going back to the Rainbow Children). Your constant doom and gloom hyperbole is tiring.

renfield said:

feeluupp said:

USA third week, Originals is OUT of the Billboard 200, making it the lowest selling Prince album of all time in USA, as well as the shortest time in the Billboard 200 for any of his albums, only staying in the Top 200 for just 2 weeks.

I doubt the recently released deluxe and vinyl editions will do anything to boost sales.

So far, N.E.W.S. has sold a lot more than Originals.

You're a broken record. How many times are you going to bring up NEWS? Yes Original's sales are low, EVERYTHING'S sales are low. The Raconteurs' new album debuted at number one and is #155 in its third week. Springsteen's new album plunged 60-166 in its fourth week. After entering at number one Madonna's new album was also off the charts after two weeks (and she had a tour/merch bundle). Consumption is driven by streaming, streaming is driven by young people, and young people aren't checking for all these old artists unless they have a movie to spur interest.

But unlike all the other acts I mentioned, Prince's posthumous albums have very little overhead cost. The music was produced decades ago. The packaging is minimal. There's enough of a profit for Warners and the Estate. Bowie's estate has released several massive box sets that have sold paltry numbers. Elvis still regularly charts 1 or 2 new albums every year with fewer than 100k total copies sold. Dozens and dozens of other deceased artists' estates continue to release albums that don't see a fraction of even the numbers Originals did. Prince is a legacy artist now and these releases are part of that legacy, keeping new albums on the market, keeping his name out there however much they can. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of copies; his albums barely did that when he was alive and touring. And for the record, he's had several albums spend 2 or fewer weeks on the BB200 (going back to the Rainbow Children). Your constant doom and gloom hyperbole is tiring.

Even if most of the times I appreciate feeluupp's contributions (in small doses, in this case), I couldn't have said it better. The acts you referred to as exemples show clearly how the music market is constantly changing over these years.

[Edited 7/16/19 8:24am]

So..

Third full week and Originals sits at 21 on the pure sales chart shifting around 3-3500 copies. Total is around 33000 US to date...

Piano sold around 47000 at the same point in its release schedule but on ALL formats. FYI after week 14 it had sold 68000.That comparison when it arrives may be closer than the current discrepancy.

Since its been a while and no one has broached the subject I just wanted to mention it has sold less than N.E.W.S...

spelchek said:

So..

Third full week and Originals sits at 21 on the pure sales chart shifting around 3-3500 copies. Total is around 33000 US to date...

Piano sold around 47000 at the same point in its release schedule but on ALL formats. FYI after week 14 it had sold 68000.That comparison when it arrives may be closer than the current discrepancy.

Since its been a while and no one has broached the subject I just wanted to mention it has sold less than N.E.W.S...

FunkyStrange said:

Sooner or later these dopes are going to realise that the general public are not their target market.. amazing they still haven't realised this after three years already...

This is a common argument among various fandoms (from musical artists to sci-fi franchises): Do you martket to your hardcore fanbase or the masses?

99 times out of 100 I think the correct answer to market to the masses. It exposes the art to more people and generates more profits.

However with Prince music, this is the one time I will agree that they should forget about the casual fan and concentrate on making the hardcore fan base happy.

Why?

Because, sadly, I don't think there are many casual fans left. There's no money to be made from the masses. In contrast, you have a sizable amount of hardcore who are older with a bit a disposable income that they are dying to throw your way if you'd simply offer more product and better product.

I normally don't get "into it" with other orgers here, but since this is as DISCUSSION board, let there be discussion.

It's funny because when I joined the org way back in 2002 I was a young kid, and I wanted to know how to "contribute" to this site at the time. The one thing I never really saw was, whenever he would release a new album, nobody posted the chart or sales figures, so I started doing that, and been doing that ever since there was a new release.

From that time I started posting about that as just a kid, till now... There has never been an obsession for sales, I personally could care less if he sold 10 million or 1,000 per album, I just posted it as I felt it was a contribution to some Prince news which nobody was posting...

What urks me is I've observed throughout the numberous threads I create on the sales of his new released albums are, there are some members that take it so PERSONAL when it comes to sales figures, especially if it is a "low" sales figure... You have people taking it so personal as if they were defending the reason why their child should've won their softball game... I'm personally baffled why some people get so defensive when it comes to sales figures.

The paradox is, there is no DOOM or HYPERBOLE, it only comes from members like you, who actually get so butt hurt and take a simple post about FACTS so personal.

Is ORIGINALS his lowest selling album, yes it is. Did it sell lower than N.E.W.S. Yes it did. Do we know that streaming has overtaken phsyical sales, yes we do. Will the next release sell more, hopefully so. Do I personally care, nope. Is this a Prince site where you can post Prince "NEWS" including sales of his most recent release, yes it is.

So the only DOOM that's coming from is people like you.

Don't worry, I'll post the sales figures to the next release, and if it sells low and I simply post the sales figures another member will bring more DOOM as they take his sales so personal.

renfield said:

feeluupp said:

USA third week, Originals is OUT of the Billboard 200, making it the lowest selling Prince album of all time in USA, as well as the shortest time in the Billboard 200 for any of his albums, only staying in the Top 200 for just 2 weeks.

I doubt the recently released deluxe and vinyl editions will do anything to boost sales.

So far, N.E.W.S. has sold a lot more than Originals.

You're a broken record. How many times are you going to bring up NEWS? Yes Original's sales are low, EVERYTHING'S sales are low. The Raconteurs' new album debuted at number one and is #155 in its third week. Springsteen's new album plunged 60-166 in its fourth week. After entering at number one Madonna's new album was also off the charts after two weeks (and she had a tour/merch bundle). Consumption is driven by streaming, streaming is driven by young people, and young people aren't checking for all these old artists unless they have a movie to spur interest.

But unlike all the other acts I mentioned, Prince's posthumous albums have very little overhead cost. The music was produced decades ago. The packaging is minimal. There's enough of a profit for Warners and the Estate. Bowie's estate has released several massive box sets that have sold paltry numbers. Elvis still regularly charts 1 or 2 new albums every year with fewer than 100k total copies sold. Dozens and dozens of other deceased artists' estates continue to release albums that don't see a fraction of even the numbers Originals did. Prince is a legacy artist now and these releases are part of that legacy, keeping new albums on the market, keeping his name out there however much they can. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of copies; his albums barely did that when he was alive and touring. And for the record, he's had several albums spend 2 or fewer weeks on the BB200 (going back to the Rainbow Children). Your constant doom and gloom hyperbole is tiring.

feeluupp said:

I normally don't get "into it" with other orgers here, but since this is as DISCUSSION board, let there be discussion.

It's funny because when I joined the org way back in 2002 I was a young kid, and I wanted to know how to "contribute" to this site at the time. The one thing I never really saw was, whenever he would release a new album, nobody posted the chart or sales figures, so I started doing that, and been doing that ever since there was a new release.

From that time I started posting about that as just a kid, till now... There has never been an obsession for sales, I personally could care less if he sold 10 million or 1,000 per album, I just posted it as I felt it was a contribution to some Prince news which nobody was posting...

What urks me is I've observed throughout the numberous threads I create on the sales of his new released albums are, there are some members that take it so PERSONAL when it comes to sales figures, especially if it is a "low" sales figure... You have people taking it so personal as if they were defending the reason why their child should've won their softball game... I'm personally baffled why some people get so defensive when it comes to sales figures.

The paradox is, there is no DOOM or HYPERBOLE, it only comes from members like you, who actually get so butt hurt and take a simple post about FACTS so personal.

Is ORIGINALS his lowest selling album, yes it is. Did it sell lower than N.E.W.S. Yes it did. Do we know that streaming has overtaken phsyical sales, yes we do. Will the next release sell more, hopefully so. Do I personally care, nope. Is this a Prince site where you can post Prince "NEWS" including sales of his most recent release, yes it is.

So the only DOOM that's coming from is people like you.

Don't worry, I'll post the sales figures to the next release, and if it sells low and I simply post the sales figures another member will bring more DOOM as they take his sales so personal.

I'm not trying to "get into it" with you. And it's totally fine to post sales numbers, whatever they may be. But you do seem to go out of your way every week to bring up how horrible the numbers are. Just post the numbers, there's no reason to constantly bring up N.E.W.S. multiple times per thread. I'm not "butthurt" or taking it persoanlly at all...I got the music...you just seem to obsesses over pointing out how awful the numbers are with every update. That's been established, the dead horse is beaten.

renfield said:

renfield said:

feeluupp said:

I normally don't get "into it" with other orgers here, but since this is as DISCUSSION board, let there be discussion.

It's funny because when I joined the org way back in 2002 I was a young kid, and I wanted to know how to "contribute" to this site at the time. The one thing I never really saw was, whenever he would release a new album, nobody posted the chart or sales figures, so I started doing that, and been doing that ever since there was a new release.

From that time I started posting about that as just a kid, till now... There has never been an obsession for sales, I personally could care less if he sold 10 million or 1,000 per album, I just posted it as I felt it was a contribution to some Prince news which nobody was posting...

What urks me is I've observed throughout the numberous threads I create on the sales of his new released albums are, there are some members that take it so PERSONAL when it comes to sales figures, especially if it is a "low" sales figure... You have people taking it so personal as if they were defending the reason why their child should've won their softball game... I'm personally baffled why some people get so defensive when it comes to sales figures.

The paradox is, there is no DOOM or HYPERBOLE, it only comes from members like you, who actually get so butt hurt and take a simple post about FACTS so personal.

Is ORIGINALS his lowest selling album, yes it is. Did it sell lower than N.E.W.S. Yes it did. Do we know that streaming has overtaken phsyical sales, yes we do. Will the next release sell more, hopefully so. Do I personally care, nope. Is this a Prince site where you can post Prince "NEWS" including sales of his most recent release, yes it is.

So the only DOOM that's coming from is people like you.

Don't worry, I'll post the sales figures to the next release, and if it sells low and I simply post the sales figures another member will bring more DOOM as they take his sales so personal.

I'm not trying to "get into it" with you. And it's totally fine to post sales numbers, whatever they may be. But you do seem to go out of your way every week to bring up how horrible the numbers are. Just post the numbers, there's no reason to constantly bring up N.E.W.S. multiple times per thread. I'm not "butthurt" or taking it persoanlly at all...I got the music...you just seem to obsesses over pointing out how awful the numbers are with every update. That's been established, the dead horse is beaten.

Puts things into perspective on how low this album sold, since N.E.W.S was his lowest selling album of all time, N.E.W.S had NO promotion what so ever, yet look at all the promotion ORIGINALS had...

It's not to keep saying, his sales or low his sales are bad, no not at all. It simply directs the discussion, are the estate going the right path with these releases if there is exteremly little demand for this by the commercial public, or once again should the estate just focus on the hard core fans and create box sets with a higher price point.

The good news is... The Deluxe edition packaging and booklet looks great!

.

I agree.I am most excited and eager for the 1999 Deluxe Edition.Originals is OK but I'm already bored with it.

Giovanni777 said:

The last two releases were essentially lame. I don't even want either of them, and I'm a hard core fan. I think these diminish his legacy, and he would feel the same. They are releasing these little tid bits, but nothing major (besides the Purple Rain "deluxe" release. Let's hope for the 1999 "deluxe" release.