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Reply #150 posted 07/09/19 8:10am

spelchek

feeluupp said:

https://www.billboard.com...LFWK-rKmBo

Originals debuted a number #15 on the Billboard 200 with just 21,000 sales.


On its second week it dropped all the way down to #140.

Selling less than 3,000 copies.

This is shocking to see how LOW the sales are, this isn't even average sales, it is a complete flop.

Right now N.E.W.S. has sold much more than Originals.

it sold around 5500-6000 this week. Not amazing but expected. His streamig nubers are poor so higher placing out of the question.Last weeks number 1 dropped to 57 too. Not a surprise as that was a ticket bundle. Springsteen also dropped to 60 in week 3( i think) and he has a 'hit' on his hands. Its how charts are compiled now and thats that..

Anyhoo. Sales to date on digital/cd are around 29-30000 US. No clue ww but not above 50000 i shouldnt think.Roll on the deluxe/vinyl edition. Lets smash that 32000 barrier...Oah-wah!

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Reply #151 posted 07/09/19 8:54am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

The money in music has been about teens, tie-ins with commercials, movies, and live performances. His music can still reach teens with tie-ins to popular culture, but in a vacuum in and of itself to the older Prince fan base eco-chamber here? Not going to happen. Not a good idea.

as I keep saying, any new release has to be tied in to a new culturally relevant project, not as a stand alone.

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Reply #152 posted 07/09/19 9:08am

scratchtasia

spelchek said:

feeluupp said:

https://www.billboard.com...LFWK-rKmBo

Originals debuted a number #15 on the Billboard 200 with just 21,000 sales.


On its second week it dropped all the way down to #140.

Selling less than 3,000 copies.

This is shocking to see how LOW the sales are, this isn't even average sales, it is a complete flop.

Right now N.E.W.S. has sold much more than Originals.

it sold around 5500-6000 this week. Not amazing but expected. His streamig nubers are poor so higher placing out of the question.Last weeks number 1 dropped to 57 too. Not a surprise as that was a ticket bundle. Springsteen also dropped to 60 in week 3( i think) and he has a 'hit' on his hands. Its how charts are compiled now and thats that..

Anyhoo. Sales to date on digital/cd are around 29-30000 US. No clue ww but not above 50000 i shouldnt think.Roll on the deluxe/vinyl edition. Lets smash that 32000 barrier...Oah-wah!



Yes, low streaming numbers will drag its placement down on the "Billboard 200." Meanwhile, on Billboard's "Top Album Sales" chart, which only counts actual sales, the album drops to #10 this week in its third week on the chart. For the sake of comparison, Madonna's new album is at #23 in its third week on the chart. And having the 10th-best-selling album in the country is not a bad place to be.

I don't care that much about current chart action, but I'm not sure why some are so eager to label this release a flop. It's doing fine. The streaming numbers could be better, but trust me, any artist would prefer the royalties from the sale of a physical product over what they get from streaming. And streaming is largely driven by kids who aren't going to listen to what their parents (or grandparents!) were into.

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Reply #153 posted 07/09/19 9:08am

darkroman

This is all very interesting and actually quite sad.

I am really enjoying originals and I'd like to see it doing better.

I do feel somewhat annoyed the Estate assume it is still 1984 and expect Prince to sell millions, when he hasn't really done that too often.

It's interesting (and again sad) to see many old artists in the charts but NO albums by Prince at all.

These older artists are in the charts so it's crazy to see Prince isn't with them : Kylie, Elton John, Cure, Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, Oasis, Bob Marley, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Whitney, Take That, Eagles and George Michael.

Lord knows why Prince doesn't even have a budget hits collection in the charts!!!


cool

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Reply #154 posted 07/09/19 9:32am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

darkroman said:

This is all very interesting and actually quite sad.

I am really enjoying originals and I'd like to see it doing better.

I do feel somewhat annoyed the Estate assume it is still 1984 and expect Prince to sell millions, when he hasn't really done that too often.

It's interesting (and again sad) to see many old artists in the charts but NO albums by Prince at all.

These older artists are in the charts so it's crazy to see Prince isn't with them : Kylie, Elton John, Cure, Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, Oasis, Bob Marley, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Whitney, Take That, Eagles and George Michael.

Lord knows why Prince doesn't even have a budget hits collection in the charts!!!


cool


The Beatles and Elton have mainstream movies out now. Having new culturally relevant tie-ins always

"helps". Not that The Beatles or Elton wouldn't be up there anyway. But getting new generations appreciating something from before they were born is important, they can't just leave it up to us OLD people over 30 to rack up sales on.

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Reply #155 posted 07/09/19 9:34am

darkroman

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

darkroman said:

This is all very interesting and actually quite sad.

I am really enjoying originals and I'd like to see it doing better.

I do feel somewhat annoyed the Estate assume it is still 1984 and expect Prince to sell millions, when he hasn't really done that too often.

It's interesting (and again sad) to see many old artists in the charts but NO albums by Prince at all.

These older artists are in the charts so it's crazy to see Prince isn't with them : Kylie, Elton John, Cure, Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, Oasis, Bob Marley, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Whitney, Take That, Eagles and George Michael.

Lord knows why Prince doesn't even have a budget hits collection in the charts!!!


cool


The Beatles and Elton have mainstream movies out now. Having new culturally relevant tie-ins always

"helps". Not that The Beatles or Elton wouldn't be up there anyway. But getting new generations appreciating something from before they were born is important, they can't just leave it up to us OLD people over 30 to rack up sales on.

Yes I totally agree!

It's interesting that artists like Elton John and Queen always seem to pick up new fans with each generation but Prince hasn't.

I don't get it sometimes!


cool

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Reply #156 posted 07/09/19 9:43am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

darkroman said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


The Beatles and Elton have mainstream movies out now. Having new culturally relevant tie-ins always

"helps". Not that The Beatles or Elton wouldn't be up there anyway. But getting new generations appreciating something from before they were born is important, they can't just leave it up to us OLD people over 30 to rack up sales on.

Yes I totally agree!

It's interesting that artists like Elton John and Queen always seem to pick up new fans with each generation but Prince hasn't.

I don't get it sometimes!


cool

Queen and Elton are amazing. Bohemian Rhapsody biopic was a huge hit. The young actors were on all the major TV shows promoting it and the music. Their social media presence for those projects was also blowing up. So it helps.
There is nothing like that for these new projects. I'm not complaining, i love the new projects. I wouldn't enjoy them any more or less with more promotion. I'm just chiming in because of those that are so focused on sales or whether they are a disappointment. I think they're great. Though it be nice if they reached a wider audience.

[Edited 7/9/19 9:46am]

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Reply #157 posted 07/09/19 10:09am

feeluupp

avatar

scratchtasia said:

spelchek said:

it sold around 5500-6000 this week. Not amazing but expected. His streamig nubers are poor so higher placing out of the question.Last weeks number 1 dropped to 57 too. Not a surprise as that was a ticket bundle. Springsteen also dropped to 60 in week 3( i think) and he has a 'hit' on his hands. Its how charts are compiled now and thats that..

Anyhoo. Sales to date on digital/cd are around 29-30000 US. No clue ww but not above 50000 i shouldnt think.Roll on the deluxe/vinyl edition. Lets smash that 32000 barrier...Oah-wah!



Yes, low streaming numbers will drag its placement down on the "Billboard 200." Meanwhile, on Billboard's "Top Album Sales" chart, which only counts actual sales, the album drops to #10 this week in its third week on the chart. For the sake of comparison, Madonna's new album is at #23 in its third week on the chart. And having the 10th-best-selling album in the country is not a bad place to be.

I don't care that much about current chart action, but I'm not sure why some are so eager to label this release a flop. It's doing fine. The streaming numbers could be better, but trust me, any artist would prefer the royalties from the sale of a physical product over what they get from streaming. And streaming is largely driven by kids who aren't going to listen to what their parents (or grandparents!) were into.

If this was 2000, yes #10 on the sales chart is fine... This is 2019 now where streaming is figured in for total sales, which is how they count the charts these days, being #140 in only it's second week is not impressive at all.

You can keep looking the other way and saying well he still "sold" in the top 10, but like I said it's 2019 now and that's not how the FULL charts are compiled these days.

To Drop from #15 to #140 in it's second week is really shocking. The estate needs to get it's act together with these releases.

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Reply #158 posted 07/09/19 10:17am

feeluupp

avatar

So by the third week I assume it will be out of the Billboard 200... So what then, Originals only stayed in the 200 for 2 weeks? Not even passing 30,000 sales in the U.S.

What's next then, if he can't have an album stay for 2 weeks in the Billboard 200, how will the estate release the next project if this flopped so bad.

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Reply #159 posted 07/09/19 10:25am

rdhull

avatar

feeluupp said:

So by the third week I assume it will be out of the Billboard 200... So what then, Originals only stayed in the 200 for 2 weeks? Not even passing 30,000 sales in the U.S.

What's next then, if he can't have an album stay for 2 weeks in the Billboard 200, how will the estate release the next project if this flopped so bad.

goddamn, stop being such a doomsayer

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #160 posted 07/09/19 10:41am

feeluupp

avatar

rdhull said:

feeluupp said:

So by the third week I assume it will be out of the Billboard 200... So what then, Originals only stayed in the 200 for 2 weeks? Not even passing 30,000 sales in the U.S.

What's next then, if he can't have an album stay for 2 weeks in the Billboard 200, how will the estate release the next project if this flopped so bad.

goddamn, stop being such a doomsayer

Sorry but it's not my fault that Originals dropped to #140 in it's second week.

The doom is how poorly it has sold so far, just saying. lol

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Reply #161 posted 07/09/19 10:43am

rdhull

avatar

feeluupp said:

rdhull said:

goddamn, stop being such a doomsayer

Sorry but it's not my fault that Originals dropped to #140 in it's second week.

The doom is how poorly it has sold so far, just saying. lol

But you act as if any further thoughts of releases are doomed because this one didnt burn up the charts.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #162 posted 07/09/19 10:49am

feeluupp

avatar

rdhull said:

feeluupp said:

Sorry but it's not my fault that Originals dropped to #140 in it's second week.

The doom is how poorly it has sold so far, just saying. lol

But you act as if any further thoughts of releases are doomed because this one didnt burn up the charts.

No further releases are "doomed"... It's just you have to keep in mind that if this sold as poorly as it did, the estate has to re evaluate what will be a proper release because in the end it's all about money, and with sales this poorly will it affect future releases or at least the quantity of releases and the amount we get.

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Reply #163 posted 07/09/19 10:51am

feeluupp

avatar

Keep in mind there was ALOT of promotion for this release. Huge billboards all around the world, on Times Square, on buses, etc... That is not cheap at all... For Originals to drop to 140 on is second week, still selling under 30,000, I don't think that is profitable, no matter how cheap the packaging is.

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Reply #164 posted 07/09/19 10:55am

rdhull

avatar

feeluupp said:

rdhull said:

But you act as if any further thoughts of releases are doomed because this one didnt burn up the charts.

No further releases are "doomed"... It's just you have to keep in mind that if this sold as poorly as it did, the estate has to re evaluate what will be a proper release because in the end it's all about money, and with sales this poorly will it affect future releases or at least the quantity of releases and the amount we get.

Wrong. Because piano and more didnt blow up either and that did not stop them from releasing Originals and this failure or success will stop them from future releases either.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #165 posted 07/09/19 10:59am

rdhull

avatar

feeluupp said:

Keep in mind there was ALOT of promotion for this release. Huge billboards all around the world, on Times Square, on buses, etc... That is not cheap at all... For Originals to drop to 140 on is second week, still selling under 30,000, I don't think that is profitable, no matter how cheap the packaging is.

This is true in regard that this one got a bigger marketing push. But there is a bigger picture., estate profit be damned.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #166 posted 07/09/19 11:01am

feeluupp

avatar

rdhull said:

feeluupp said:

No further releases are "doomed"... It's just you have to keep in mind that if this sold as poorly as it did, the estate has to re evaluate what will be a proper release because in the end it's all about money, and with sales this poorly will it affect future releases or at least the quantity of releases and the amount we get.

Wrong. Because piano and more didnt blow up either and that did not stop them from releasing Originals and this failure or success will stop them from future releases either.

Ofc Piano didn't blow up on the charts, no Prince release blew up on the charts since 1991, that's the truth. Even Musicology "superficial" chart status was due to his concert give aways...

No one is expecting it to blow up on the charts, but no one is expecting it to flop to 140 in only it's second week either...

Keep in mind, Piano sold a lot more than Originals... It's first week sales still is more than Originals 2 weeks sales, and probably 3 and 4 week sales.

And once again, not to beat a deadhorse, but this DROPPED TO 140 IN IT'S 2ND WEEK... That is really bad, really bad.

[Edited 7/9/19 11:03am]

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Reply #167 posted 07/09/19 11:07am

feeluupp

avatar

Giovanni777 said:

The last two releases were essentially lame. I don't even want either of them, and I'm a hard core fan. I think these diminish his legacy, and he would feel the same. They are releasing these little tid bits, but nothing major (besides the Purple Rain "deluxe" release. Let's hope for the 1999 "deluxe" release. I also want more recent stuff... the intended track list for '20ten', the 'Welcome 2 America' album, 'Black is the New Black', etc.

Completely agree.

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Reply #168 posted 07/09/19 11:13am

rdhull

avatar

feeluupp said:

rdhull said:

Wrong. Because piano and more didnt blow up either and that did not stop them from releasing Originals and this failure or success will stop them from future releases either.

Ofc Piano didn't blow up on the charts, no Prince release blew up on the charts since 1991, that's the truth. Even Musicology "superficial" chart status was due to his concert give aways...

No one is expecting it to blow up on the charts, but no one is expecting it to flop to 140 in only it's second week either...

Keep in mind, Piano sold a lot more than Originals... It's first week sales still is more than Originals 2 weeks sales, and probably 3 and 4 week sales.

And once again, not to beat a deadhorse, but this DROPPED TO 140 IN IT'S 2ND WEEK... That is really bad, really bad.

[Edited 7/9/19 11:03am]

And of no consequence. You dont get it. Prince is being shown for the art of the music/creativity lately. Thats what these releases are. They are treating him as jazz musician and not a pop star.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #169 posted 07/09/19 12:16pm

spelchek

FYI

The Nielson Half Year report mentions that the first week as a Tidal Exclusive garnered just over 1 million combined on demand streams. I have no idea what that equates to...

[Edited 7/9/19 12:17pm]

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Reply #170 posted 07/09/19 1:00pm

feeluupp

avatar

rdhull said:

feeluupp said:

Ofc Piano didn't blow up on the charts, no Prince release blew up on the charts since 1991, that's the truth. Even Musicology "superficial" chart status was due to his concert give aways...

No one is expecting it to blow up on the charts, but no one is expecting it to flop to 140 in only it's second week either...

Keep in mind, Piano sold a lot more than Originals... It's first week sales still is more than Originals 2 weeks sales, and probably 3 and 4 week sales.

And once again, not to beat a deadhorse, but this DROPPED TO 140 IN IT'S 2ND WEEK... That is really bad, really bad.

[Edited 7/9/19 11:03am]

And of no consequence. You dont get it. Prince is being shown for the art of the music/creativity lately. Thats what these releases are. They are treating him as jazz musician and not a pop star.

Huh??

He's always been shown for the art of the music/creativity. He's Prince for gods sake.

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Reply #171 posted 07/09/19 1:21pm

scratchtasia

feeluupp said:

scratchtasia said:



Yes, low streaming numbers will drag its placement down on the "Billboard 200." Meanwhile, on Billboard's "Top Album Sales" chart, which only counts actual sales, the album drops to #10 this week in its third week on the chart. For the sake of comparison, Madonna's new album is at #23 in its third week on the chart. And having the 10th-best-selling album in the country is not a bad place to be.

I don't care that much about current chart action, but I'm not sure why some are so eager to label this release a flop. It's doing fine. The streaming numbers could be better, but trust me, any artist would prefer the royalties from the sale of a physical product over what they get from streaming. And streaming is largely driven by kids who aren't going to listen to what their parents (or grandparents!) were into.

If this was 2000, yes #10 on the sales chart is fine... This is 2019 now where streaming is figured in for total sales, which is how they count the charts these days, being #140 in only it's second week is not impressive at all.

You can keep looking the other way and saying well he still "sold" in the top 10, but like I said it's 2019 now and that's not how the FULL charts are compiled these days.

To Drop from #15 to #140 in it's second week is really shocking. The estate needs to get it's act together with these releases.


I'm not looking the other way. You're missing the point. The Billboard 200 is only one way of looking at the performance of an album. It's not the only measure of success. You're taking that one chart too seriously, and frankly its methodology is kind of a joke these days. Albums regularly debut high and take steep drops all the time now, and no deceased legacy artist is going to ride the top of the charts for more than a week or two. Albums that stream high and sell low get better chart positions, but a stream makes a fraction of a fraction of the amount for an artist that an actual sale does. The estate and labels will be happy with what they are making from Prince's sales relative to other artists and will continue putting stuff out. The sky is not falling.

A movie might boost streaming for a few weeks, but the only other way to get the kids to stream Prince in huge numbers would be to let a bunch of current rappers shit all over his tracks, and nobody wants that. Vault releases are not going to be massive mainstream pop hits that burn up the charts--that's an unreasonable expectation. They're going to be solid performers that earn respect, sell to the established audience, and keep the legacy going.


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Reply #172 posted 07/09/19 2:19pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

scratchtasia said:

feeluupp said:

If this was 2000, yes #10 on the sales chart is fine... This is 2019 now where streaming is figured in for total sales, which is how they count the charts these days, being #140 in only it's second week is not impressive at all.

You can keep looking the other way and saying well he still "sold" in the top 10, but like I said it's 2019 now and that's not how the FULL charts are compiled these days.

To Drop from #15 to #140 in it's second week is really shocking. The estate needs to get it's act together with these releases.


I'm not looking the other way. You're missing the point. The Billboard 200 is only one way of looking at the performance of an album. It's not the only measure of success. You're taking that one chart too seriously, and frankly its methodology is kind of a joke these days. Albums regularly debut high and take steep drops all the time now, and no deceased legacy artist is going to ride the top of the charts for more than a week or two. Albums that stream high and sell low get better chart positions, but a stream makes a fraction of a fraction of the amount for an artist that an actual sale does. The estate and labels will be happy with what they are making from Prince's sales relative to other artists and will continue putting stuff out. The sky is not falling.

A movie might boost streaming for a few weeks, but the only other way to get the kids to stream Prince in huge numbers would be to let a bunch of current rappers shit all over his tracks, and nobody wants that. Vault releases are not going to be massive mainstream pop hits that burn up the charts--that's an unreasonable expectation. They're going to be solid performers that earn respect, sell to the established audience, and keep the legacy going.


Naw, movie is just another avenue of people getting to know him. No one wants anyone shitting on Prince and his legacy.

.

i think the main problem is that his mainstream legacy is focused on his pop hits whereas here know he was much much more. I love that people on youtube are posting a lot more of live performances where he was always the most spectacular. And that beyond the hits, his non-pop music was some of some of his best.

that beyond Puple Rain, mainstream audiences equate Prince to the pop dreck lof diamonds and pearls and the most beautiful girl in the world is a huge problem that needs remedy. Any mainstream media that shows the breadth of his talents beyond that are a great way for audiences to get to know how amazing his tale lentos were.

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Reply #173 posted 07/09/19 2:47pm

darkroman

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

darkroman said:

Yes I totally agree!

It's interesting that artists like Elton John and Queen always seem to pick up new fans with each generation but Prince hasn't.

I don't get it sometimes!


cool

Queen and Elton are amazing. Bohemian Rhapsody biopic was a huge hit. The young actors were on all the major TV shows promoting it and the music. Their social media presence for those projects was also blowing up. So it helps.
There is nothing like that for these new projects. I'm not complaining, i love the new projects. I wouldn't enjoy them any more or less with more promotion. I'm just chiming in because of those that are so focused on sales or whether they are a disappointment. I think they're great. Though it be nice if they reached a wider audience.

[Edited 7/9/19 9:46am]


Yes for sure, and surely one has to ask why is it that Prince isn't connecting with a new audience and never has.

Also what massive cultural shift needs to happen to change this? A biopic, a doc series, a Pop Idol special, I really don't know - but something needs to happen to turn audiences back onto Prince before the original fans die out.

It's odd Prince is widely acclaimed but sales don't reflect that.


cool

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Reply #174 posted 07/09/19 3:22pm

onlyforaminute

Maybe it's the wall, not being able to get a cohesive picture of who he was. Young people today growup "knowing" their celebrities warts and all. The air of mystery doesn't play as well today as it used to. Everything is laid out in the opened or rather its presumed to be. I can't think of anyone icon who still has that much air of mystery as much as Prince has.


People don't buy products the buy personalities.

That's my 2c.
[Edited 7/9/19 15:24pm]
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #175 posted 07/09/19 4:06pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

darkroman said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:




darkroman said:




Yes I totally agree!

It's interesting that artists like Elton John and Queen always seem to pick up new fans with each generation but Prince hasn't.

I don't get it sometimes!


cool



Queen and Elton are amazing. Bohemian Rhapsody biopic was a huge hit. The young actors were on all the major TV shows promoting it and the music. Their social media presence for those projects was also blowing up. So it helps.
There is nothing like that for these new projects. I'm not complaining, i love the new projects. I wouldn't enjoy them any more or less with more promotion. I'm just chiming in because of those that are so focused on sales or whether they are a disappointment. I think they're great. Though it be nice if they reached a wider audience.



[Edited 7/9/19 9:46am]




Yes for sure, and surely one has to ask why is it that Prince isn't connecting with a new audience and never has.

Also what massive cultural shift needs to happen to change this? A biopic, a doc series, a Pop Idol special, I really don't know - but something needs to happen to turn audiences back onto Prince before the original fans die out.

It's odd Prince is widely acclaimed but sales don't reflect that.


cool



There is a small cult in Ohio that specializes in spells. I used PayPal to order a spell to help. Now we all just have to believe. If we believe it will happen.
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Reply #176 posted 07/09/19 6:23pm

Milty2

We should not be surprised that Originals won't sell a lot. I'm just glad that I have a copy to listen to.

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Reply #177 posted 07/09/19 6:43pm

macaylasdad

darkroman said:

I do feel somewhat annoyed the Estate assume it is still 1984 and expect Prince to sell millions, when he hasn't really done that too often.

Prince's last "true" million seller was the symbol album and that was 27 years ago!

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Reply #178 posted 07/09/19 6:47pm

feeluupp

avatar

macaylasdad said:

darkroman said:

I do feel somewhat annoyed the Estate assume it is still 1984 and expect Prince to sell millions, when he hasn't really done that too often.

Prince's last "true" million seller was the symbol album and that was 27 years ago!

Not entirely true.

The Hits 1

The Hits 2

The Hits/ The B-Sides all sold over a million. As a matter of fact if recertified it would have surpassed over 2 million each in the USA by now.

The Very Best of Prince sold over a million, and since his death is the largest selling Prince album. The Very Best of Prince has sold over 3 million in the USA and should be surpassing the 6 million mark world wide.

The Musicology album would've sold a million even without including the concert tickets which helped it sell over 2 million in the USA alone.

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Reply #179 posted 07/09/19 7:00pm

macaylasdad

feeluupp said:

macaylasdad said:

Prince's last "true" million seller was the symbol album and that was 27 years ago!

Not entirely true.

The Hits 1

The Hits 2

The Hits/ The B-Sides all sold over a million. As a matter of fact if recertified it would have surpassed over 2 million each in the USA by now.

The Very Best of Prince sold over a million, and since his death is the largest selling Prince album. The Very Best of Prince has sold over 3 million in the USA and should be surpassing the 6 million mark world wide.

The Musicology album would've sold a million even without including the concert tickets which helped it sell over 2 million in the USA alone.

I am not counting greatest hits...I am talking about orginal music release... Musicology... I might conceed, not sure on that. Yes, they give out over a million cds that counted to sales, but I saw 3 three shows... I got 3 cds, but I would never buy that album 3 times over and I am pretty sure the thousands who saw him multipule times for that tour would say they same. Prince was very creative for that.

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