SoulAlive said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

They clearly had a well documented love / hate relationship.

Indeed.I recall a blistering 1986 interview in Rock N' Soul magazine where Jesse totally trashed Prince."Do you hear the garbage he's been playing lately",Jesse asked,adding "That's because me,Morris,Terry and Jimmy were his most creative influences.Now that we're gone from his organization,he has nobody to steal from.He heard our stuff and got ideas of his own" He also spoke about Under The Cherry Moon and the less-than-fantastic sales of Parade: "His karma is catching up to him.Now he's realizing that what goes around comes around".

Yet, Prince reached out to him a month before his passing.

All this is much ado about nothing.

jaawwnn said:

Prince Defenders

Defending him from what? He ain't coming back. Only Prince fans and, I dunno, mega John Hughes fans have any idea who Jesse is.

What happened to love4oneanother?

Someone hiding behind a group name. Just evil.

luv4u said:

Come on folks, I think we have all heard how Prince treated some of the people he worked with like dog poop and did them wrong, and maybe Jesse was one of those people, and maybe his anger is warranted. We all knew that Prince could be a little butt hole at times, heck, he was even that way to his fans at times, so let's not pretend like the man was an angel who could do no wrong, and start going off on Jesse just because it's Prince!

rogifan said:

So is his FB post the truth or not? We know Prince didn’t have a cell phone so any text he would have received would have come from someone else. I suppose it’s possible Prince dictated a text message for someone else to send on his behalf but it seems odd considering his preferred method of communication was email. Anyway if any of the comments in quotes in that Prince defenders post is accurate then no way should he be participating in the Celebration event (why did he even accept) and if he does he’s a fraud.

Maybe Jesse meant email when he said text, emails are composed of text. He could have read it on his phone. Maybe he's exaggerating and making bits up. I don't see why it matters. He's a part of Prince history whether people like it or not and as far as i'm concerned he's more than earned the right to have conflicting feelings.

rogifan said:

So is his FB post the truth or not? We know Prince didn’t have a cell phone so any text he would have received would have come from someone else. I suppose it’s possible Prince dictated a text message for someone else to send on his behalf but it seems odd considering his preferred method of communication was email. Anyway if any of the comments in quotes in that Prince defenders post is accurate then no way should he be participating in the Celebration event (why did he even accept) and if he does he’s a fraud.

My opinion is someone is hiding behind a name/computer who has targeted him with some secret shitty recording, unknown to him, force him/black mail into not taking part in the Celebration which he is a part of and should be there.

Who will they go after next?


love4oneanother.

oceanblue said:

PennyPurple said:

Are all fans like this, or is it only Prince fans?

From a Prince Defenders post:

[biggie blurb]

Please provide link to source, thanks

oceanblue said:

Come on folks, I think we have all heard how Prince treated some of the people he worked with like dog poop and did them wrong, and maybe Jesse was one of those people, and maybe his anger is warranted. We all knew that Prince could be a little butt hole at times, heck, he was even that way to his fans at times, so let's not pretend like the man was an angel who could do no wrong, and start going off on Jesse just because it's Prince!

True,but now that Prince is gone,isn't it time to let go of old grudges? It seems that Jesse is still carrying around all this negativity.

SoulAlive said:

Personally, I find the 'Prince Defender' type 'fans' far more worrying than Jesse.

Jesse is and always has been an intense guy and he's clearly had issues about being in Prince's shadow since 83. Like Jam and Lewis, he has immense talent and by 83' he was clearly helping and influenceing Prince.

If I'd written Jungle Love and not got my full dues, I'd probably have beef. Wendy and Lisa also stated that Jesse was the one, behind the scenes, that taught them a lot about production and instrumentation, and interestingly, how to create the Prince 'sound'.

When Jesse did strike out on his own, he had a relative amount of the success, and it's obvious from 1985's B-side 'Free World' that he wanted to taken seriously on his own.

If we look at Prince's behaviour around 'Shockadelica', he did treat Jesse differently, and he clearly wanted him back 'under control'. Jesse's Shockadelica album is up there with the best of MPLS sound.

Beyond Prince, Jesse still struggled with the past. He rejoined The Time in 1990, but blew out the Original 7 tour because he wanted to celebrate new music, not the old hits. I get that.

I saw him twice at Bunkers on Celebration 2017 weekend and three things were clear. He was happier to accept the past and played a great version of Purple Rain in honour of Prince. Secondly, he can pull in a crowd, with or without Celebration. Lastly, his set showed he played for the music, not recognition. He played what he wanted to play, and not all the audience got that.

It sound like he did have issues over the years, with his marriage, and possibly drink, but so have many people.

But from what I've seen over the years, he isn't going to do something if he didn't agree with it artistically.

When we break this down, someone recorded and editted a private conversation and you have to ask, what was the motive? These 'defenders', in my opinion, tarnish Prince's legacy far more than an intense associate with genuine beef over some issues.

Beyond this particular issue, sections of the fan base and alumni are acting like school children. It's further stoked by Fan sites/groups all vying to be 'big' on the scene. I guess many of them have nothing better to do, because their actions sure as hell don't seem to be in the interest of Prince and his memory.

SquirrelMeat said:

Personally, I find the 'Prince Defender' type 'fans' far more worrying than Jesse.

Jesse is and always has been an intense guy and he's clearly had issues about being in Prince's shadow since 83. Like Jam and Lewis, he has immense talent and by 83' he was clearly helping and influenceing Prince.

If I'd written Jungle Love and not got my full dues, I'd probably have beef. Wendy and Lisa also stated that Jesse was the one, behind the scenes, that taught them a lot about production and instrumentation, and interestingly, how to create the Prince 'sound'.

When Jesse did strike out on his own, he had a relative amount of the success, and it's obvious from 1985's B-side 'Free World' that he wanted to taken seriously on his own.

If we look at Prince's behaviour around 'Shockadelica', he did treat Jesse differently, and he clearly wanted him back 'under control'. Jesse's Shockadelica album is up there with the best of MPLS sound.

Beyond Prince, Jesse still struggled with the past. He rejoined The Time in 1990, but blew out the Original 7 tour because he wanted to celebrate new music, not the old hits. I get that.

I saw him twice at Bunkers on Celebration 2017 weekend and three things were clear. He was happier to accept the past and played a great version of Purple Rain in honour of Prince. Secondly, he can pull in a crowd, with or without Celebration. Lastly, his set showed he played for the music, not recognition. He played what he wanted to play, and not all the audience got that.

It sound like he did have issues over the years, with his marriage, and possibly drink, but so have many people.

But from what I've seen over the years, he isn't going to do something if he didn't agree with it artistically.

When we break this down, someone recorded and editted a private conversation and you have to ask, what was the motive? These 'defenders', in my opinion, tarnish Prince's legacy far more than an intense associate with genuine beef over some issues.

Beyond this particular issue, sections of the fan base and alumni are acting like school children. It's further stoked by Fan sites/groups all vying to be 'big' on the scene. I guess many of them have nothing better to do, because their actions sure as hell don't seem to be in the interest of Prince and his memory.

MattyJam said:

Wow!

Wow, now that I read what Jesse has to say about the whole stuff.....I can kind of understand him. Also what the other person did was really wrong, it seems like Jesse wanted this to be a private conversation.

EmmaMcG said:

MattyJam said:

I have no problem with Jesse having personal beef with Prince, but the mans in denial if he thinks that he will ever be known outside of being a part of a Prince protegee group. As for his accusation of Prince stealing ideas from Jimmy, Morris and himself, he does know that Prince wrote those Time albums, doesn't he??? [Edited 2/7/19 14:24pm]

Wasn't Jungle Love more of a collaborative effort than Prince liked to pretend?

As best, Prince wrote the lyrics. Jesse's demo is essentially the whole song as we know it; and more interestingly, very similar to the studio output in the circle at the time.

Of course Prince had a bit of history on these things. The fall out with Andre around 'Do Me Baby', the deal with Morris to take 'Party Up' off him. Of course collaborators might like to overstate their importance, but there is a theme of dues not being paid for significant grooves and songs; and the input by associates who 'finished off' demos and ideas.

Prince was clearly a genius, but his controlling nature did leave a trail of destruction.

oceanblue said:

Come on folks, I think we have all heard how Prince treated some of the people he worked with like dog poop and did them wrong, and maybe Jesse was one of those people, and maybe his anger is warranted. We all knew that Prince could be a little butt hole at times, heck, he was even that way to his fans at times, so let's not pretend like the man was an angel who could do no wrong, and start going off on Jesse just because it's Prince!

All of Jesse's stuff in that rant was from 1984ish

at people thinking Prince was a fair and impartial svengali.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Wow, now that I read what Jesse has to say about the whole stuff.....I can kind of understand him. Also what the other person did was really wrong, it seems like Jesse wanted this to be a private conversation.

Clearly Jesse doesn't know the person well enough.

The rant was so childish. Why take shots at people who did nothing to you.

I believe there is some trouble between he and Terry, which is why he brought Terry up.

Don't do the Celebration if you hate it so much.

rdhull said:

luv4u said:

jdcxc said:

$, Ego, jealousy, bitterness, family/group dynamics and the stratospheric success of Prince create issues...no big deal. The taping was wrong, maybe he was just talking sh t. But... What did Prince owe Jesse or any of these associates? They knew the deal when they signed up. It wasn’t a group like the Beatles, where everyone shared creatively. Jesse expects Prince to get him rich off a few musical ideas...pleeze. Jesse got huge exposure that enabled him to start a solo career. He barely even played on any Time records. He was in biker bands before Prince gave him a shot and now there is a whole community of fans who know his name. He is an excellent guitarist, but Prince was a genius. Deal with it.

It is a blessing and a curse if you come from the 1978-1988 Prince scene.

I hate the interviewers who in 2000 something still ask them to deep degrees about Prince and 'Is he really a control freak' It's very annoying interviewing. I love to hear about Prince from them too, but the questions are never anything that goes into the artistry or individuality. Just the same 'umbrella' questions. So I can see how it can annoy Jesse. He's done great work after Prince too. But that is not acknowledged.

rdhull said:

SoulAlive said:

True,but now that Prince is gone,isn't it time to let go of old grudges? It seems that Jesse is still carrying around all this negativity.

No he isn’t. Someone allegedly secretly illegally recorded him and posted it publicly. He didn’t make a public statement talking shit.

just because it was private doesn't mean Jesse isn't holding onto grudging or hurt. That stuff is usually inside us and private anyway, but still there.

OldFriends4Sale said:

oceanblue said:

Come on folks, I think we have all heard how Prince treated some of the people he worked with like dog poop and did them wrong, and maybe Jesse was one of those people, and maybe his anger is warranted. We all knew that Prince could be a little butt hole at times, heck, he was even that way to his fans at times, so let's not pretend like the man was an angel who could do no wrong, and start going off on Jesse just because it's Prince!

All of Jesse's stuff in that rant was from 1984ish

They are saying that recording was in the past couple of months???


I'm mixed about it all. If we as Prince fans want the truth about Prince, we are gonna have to take the good with the bad. Prince had different sides.

In the Prince Defender group....that letter said he was going off on the Celebration, so it must've been recently because it is mentioned by Jesse.

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

All of Jesse's stuff in that rant was from 1984ish

They are saying that recording was in the past couple of months???


I'm mixed about it all. If we as Prince fans want the truth about Prince, we are gonna have to take the good with the bad. Prince had different sides.

In the Prince Defender group....that letter said he was going off on the Celebration, so it must've been recently because it is mentioned by Jesse.

The stuff he was talking about outside of the Celebrations and Terry Lewis was all based on 1983-1984ish

I know all this stuff about Prince, it's nothing new for me. But the disses against certain people 'today' made no sense.

OldFriends4Sale said:

jdcxc said:

$, Ego, jealousy, bitterness, family/group dynamics and the stratospheric success of Prince create issues...no big deal. The taping was wrong, maybe he was just talking sh t. But... What did Prince owe Jesse or any of these associates? They knew the deal when they signed up. It wasn’t a group like the Beatles, where everyone shared creatively. Jesse expects Prince to get him rich off a few musical ideas...pleeze. Jesse got huge exposure that enabled him to start a solo career. He barely even played on any Time records. He was in biker bands before Prince gave him a shot and now there is a whole community of fans who know his name. He is an excellent guitarist, but Prince was a genius. Deal with it.

It is a blessing and a curse if you come from the 1978-1988 Prince scene.

I hate the interviewers who in 2000 something still ask them to deep degrees about Prince and 'Is he really a control freak' It's very annoying interviewing. I love to hear about Prince from them too, but the questions are never anything that goes into the artistry or individuality. Just the same 'umbrella' questions. So I can see how it can annoy Jesse. He's done great work after Prince too. But that is not acknowledged.

Personally, I'm convinced that Prince's move to the Black Album, and re-capturing his 'black audience' was influenced by the work Jesse was producing in 1986.

Jesse pulled Prince's idol out of semi-retirement (Sly), re-recorded 'If you see me (do yourself a favor) with a pure MPLS sound and touched on race issues with 'Black In America'.

If you think about the time frame, Jesse was gaining success with funk roots, while Prince was moving into the pure 'pop' culture.

It's clear Prince tried to gatecrash Jesse's work by offering a title track in 'Shockadelica', but to some degree, I'm glad Jesse passed to draw a line under the past. It was a bit petty when Prince put it out after the turn down.

Jesse "taking the stage in PP is pure blasphemy" ??

.

Put down the pipe.

rdhull is right, y'all do love drama.

SquirrelMeat is also right, all this crap from the "fans" & associates/alumni does tarnish.

It's even worse when you consider a large percentage of the BS post '16 has come from people in their 40s & 50s.

Embarrassing & Pitiful.

I suppose the noobs & uninformed long timers are gonna start digging up 30 yr old Jesse quotes now, that some of us read at the time.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PennyPurple said:

They are saying that recording was in the past couple of months???


I'm mixed about it all. If we as Prince fans want the truth about Prince, we are gonna have to take the good with the bad. Prince had different sides.

In the Prince Defender group....that letter said he was going off on the Celebration, so it must've been recently because it is mentioned by Jesse.

The stuff he was talking about outside of the Celebrations and Terry Lewis was all based on 1983-1984ish

I know all this stuff about Prince, it's nothing new for me. But the disses against certain people 'today' made no sense.

I know you know everything Prince, but other people don't.

No, Jesse isn't saying anything new that he hasn't always said, except the part of the celebration when he is knocking it. I think the problem with it all, is if he has such strong feelings, why did he agree to join the celebration panel? I think that is what they are questioning.