PennyPurple said:

S
Hydrocodone, hydromorphone, clonidine and hydroxyzine should all have been detected.
[Edited 7/26/18 21:15pm]
[Edited 7/26/18 21:20pm]

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

Which leads us to the next question that you had on where the hydromorphone came from.

Like ISLIJAG said...there's a possibility that answer is in the DEA files...but I would think if it was found, it would've had to be listed. It does prove that he was taking things other than the illicit pills and what KJ gave him, and that's a fact Jack.

And so we come to the inevitable conclusion that his brain and thought processes were so compromised by the toxic soup his brain (and body) cells were bathed in that there is NO WAY we can place ourselves in his size 7 boots and try to track OR EVEN UNDERSTAND his thought processes. Have any of you here tried to have a logical, sensible, linear, reality based conversation with someone who has opioiod brain?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

peggyon said: This was done intentionally to him....

I respectfully disagree.

me, too...he did it to himself either purposely or accidentally...HE put hand to mouth.

sorry...dupe

[Edited 7/26/18 21:19pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

precioux said:

Like ISLIJAG said...there's a possibility that answer is in the DEA files...but I would think if it was found, it would've had to be listed. It does prove that he was taking things other than the illicit pills and what KJ gave him, and that's a fact Jack.

And so we come to the inevitable conclusion that his brain and thought processes were so compromised by the toxic soup his brain (and body) cells were bathed in that there is NO WAY we can place ourselves in his size 7 boots and try to track OR EVEN UNDERSTAND his thought processes. Have any of you here tried to have a logical, sensible, linear, reality based conversation with someone who has opioiod brain?

Maybe he kept a stash of hydromorphone from Dr. D days. Perhaps he had a super hiding place that was not discovered. He seemed to love Dilaudid.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

I agree with Facedowns post....it is based on evidence and I will always believe someone did this to P, intentionally.

I agree also. I'm wondering if he may have let someone in or if someone was already there. I was thinking that the stain on the carpet that KJ wanted cleaned up may be related to the vomit/watery substance in the elevator. Also, he does not look relaxed to me. If he was loaded down with Fentanyl, wouldn’t his hands and fingers be more relaxed? Would his left hand have settled into a fist-like position? He looks to have been in a defensive position. I just get the feeling that he struggled with someone.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I respectfully disagree.

me, too...he did it to himself either purposely or accidentally...HE put hand to mouth.

it would be different if his DNA was not on any of the illicit pills/bottles- but that's not the case.

peggyon said:

And we don't know what KJ took out of PP when he cleared it out that day so P. wouldn't take anything.
[Edited 7/26/18 21:24pm]

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said:

Which leads us to the next question that you had on where the hydromorphone came from.

S Hydrocodone, hydromorphone, clonidine and hydroxyzine should all have been detected. [Edited 7/26/18 21:15pm] [Edited 7/26/18 21:20pm]

All we know from the report is no narcs were found, it didn't tell us what it was or other meds.

peggyon said:

PennyPurple said:

But that would be a HUGE amount of saliva.

I thought that it could be a drink that was thrown but no cup or glass was found.

If it was someone else's vomit, surely Prince would have not just left it there and would have someone clean it up?.. I mean who would want to use the elevator where vomit was that dripped down the wall where you push the buttons?

People have said that he hated elevators, but Judith and I believe Kirk said it wasn't unusual for him to use the elevator.

He did have that party there and someone else could've used the elevator and vomited in it. But that should''ve been cleaned up AND LE said that it looked 'wet' and vomit was in his mouth.

He could have vomited and then took the pills??

I really have to look at the vomit again. I don't recall it being obviously vomit. It looked kind of clear. Of course he was not eating and probably drinking water

Which zip file contains picture of the vomit in the elevator. I have not yet downloaded all. Computer keeps telling me to free up space.

che777x said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

I agree with Facedowns post....it is based on evidence and I will always believe someone did this to P, intentionally.

I agree also. I'm wondering if he may have let someone in or if someone was already there. I was thinking that the stain on the carpet that KJ wanted cleaned up may be related to the vomit/watery substance in the elevator. Also, he does not look relaxed to me. If he was loaded down with Fentanyl, wouldn’t his hands and fingers be more relaxed? Would his left hand have settled into a fist-like position? He looks to have been in a defensive position. I just get the feeling that he struggled with someone.

No I don't think it looked as if his hand was in a fist like position.

che777x said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

I agree with Facedowns post....it is based on evidence and I will always believe someone did this to P, intentionally.

I agree also. I'm wondering if he may have let someone in or if someone was already there. I was thinking that the stain on the carpet that KJ wanted cleaned up may be related to the vomit/watery substance in the elevator. Also, he does not look relaxed to me. If he was loaded down with Fentanyl, wouldn’t his hands and fingers be more relaxed? Would his left hand have settled into a fist-like position? He looks to have been in a defensive position. I just get the feeling that he struggled with someone.

If P struggled there would have been bruises on his body.

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Great thought, Peggyon. I want to revisit something I posted a day or two ago. There seems to be a consenses here that the investigation was handled poorly. We need legal advice, preferably from an experienced lawyer or tuned-in observer in MN, who could guide us in the pressure tactics that might have a shot at getting the case looked at again. Every day I read of folks who have raised tons of money on Go Fund Me because they have a compelling story. I think the death of Prince is a compeling story. A Go Fund Me Page for a Private Investigator? We need to brain-storm how we can move this quest for truth onward...with power and grace.

Love is Patient...and Perseveres.

PS: it makes me wonder why none of his associates, inner circle, mentees or relatives have thought of this...we may need a whole new thread for that question.

[Edited 7/26/18 19:19pm]

Bodhi. I believe Chazz is a relative and has the effort #justiceforcuz, seems at least one relative thought of it. Not sure how big it is but may be worth looking into.

There are other Justice for Prince pages. Each one closes about 1,000 or maybe 2,000 signatures. If you google Justice for Prince, they'll come up.

peggyon said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

And so we come to the inevitable conclusion that his brain and thought processes were so compromised by the toxic soup his brain (and body) cells were bathed in that there is NO WAY we can place ourselves in his size 7 boots and try to track OR EVEN UNDERSTAND his thought processes. Have any of you here tried to have a logical, sensible, linear, reality based conversation with someone who has opioiod brain?

Maybe he kept a stash of hydromorphone from Dr. D days. Perhaps he had a super hiding place that was not discovered. He seemed to love Dilaudid.

Honestly, at first- I thought that's what ALL of the illicit pills were, a long hidden stash.
This is why: originally it was reported the pills had an '835' stamp, instead of '853'- we went round and round on here about this supposed dyslexic reporting. Reason being, if they would've been stamped the 835, that would be reflective of the vicodin that was discontinued in 2012 due to the new law set in place reducing the amount of acetamenophine that can be contained in narcotic pain relievers to 325 mg. If those pills would've had that stamp, technically it could be traced back to 2012, Anyone trying to look up that pill, whether it was gotten legally or just trying to research it, would've come to that conclusion. that those pills had been discontinued 6 years prior and no one would be 'pill pressing' a discontinued pill from 2012....unless the person 'hid the stash' for 6 years

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

We don't know there weren't any bruises w/o seeing the autopsy report, but they wouldn't have ruled it an accident if that was the case.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I have not heard of this "opioid brain" you speak of....what exactly is it? And, how is it diagnosed (either professionally or personally). Finally, how would one know they are having a conversation with someone suffering from opioid brain? In other words, can you share some of the specific signs and symptoms? Thanks in advance!

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said:

Which leads us to the next question that you had on where the hydromorphone came from.

S Hydrocodone, hydromorphone, clonidine and hydroxyzine should all have been detected. [b]

That was from the day before.

His autopsy showed perc's and vicodin in his urine and fent in his blood.

Are we all on the same page about the vomit? That he probably vomited before he took the fentanyl laced pill(s)?

If we are, then when got at least 1 thing settled.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said: S Hydrocodone, hydromorphone, clonidine and hydroxyzine should all have been detected. [b]

That was from the day before.

His autopsy showed perc's and vicodin in his urine and fent in his blood.

I think Penny was asking where the hydromorphone physically came from and Camileyum was suggesting the hydromorphone should've shown up in the test of the 'vomit'(?)

Camileyun said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

If P struggled there would have been bruises on his body.

We don't know there weren't any bruises w/o seeing the autopsy report, but they wouldn't have ruled it an accident if that was the case.

His hands and fingers were stiffening as a result of Rigor Mortis.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said: S Hydrocodone, hydromorphone, clonidine and hydroxyzine should all have been detected. [b]

That was from the day before.

His autopsy showed perc's and vicodin in his urine and fent in his blood.

..and his UA from less than 24 hours before showed hydrocodone and hydromorphone (very high levels!)- that's alot of opiates right there
....that said, I honestly don't think Prince was ever in detox/withdrawl mode...he COULDN'T have been according to the (Dr. S 4/20/16)UA and autopsy urine/blood results. He wouldn't have thrown up prior (in the elevator) due to withdrawl, only once the lethal amount was ingested and evidence of that was in his throat/airway. IMO

[Edited 7/26/18 22:02pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I'm saying these drugs should have been detected in his vomit if he came home from the Dr. and vomited, at least the meds Dr. S gave him that evening.

peggyon said:

Camileyun said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: We don't know there weren't any bruises w/o seeing the autopsy report, but they wouldn't have ruled it an accident if that was the case.

His hands and fingers were stiffening as a result of Rigor Mortis.

exactly

che777x said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

I agree with Facedowns post....it is based on evidence and I will always believe someone did this to P, intentionally.

I agree also. I'm wondering if he may have let someone in or if someone was already there. I was thinking that the stain on the carpet that KJ wanted cleaned up may be related to the vomit/watery substance in the elevator. Also, he does not look relaxed to me. If he was loaded down with Fentanyl, wouldn’t his hands and fingers be more relaxed? Would his left hand have settled into a fist-like position? He looks to have been in a defensive position. I just get the feeling that he struggled with someone.

His hands and fingers were stiffening as a result of Rigor Mortis

precioux said:

Hmmm...are you saying he wouldn't have been withdrawing because he had opiates in his system that day per Dr. S? Good point!
[b][Edited 7/26/18 22:05pm]

Camileyun said:

precioux said:

..and his UA from less than 24 hours before showed hydrocodone and hydromorphone (very high levels!)- that's alot of opiates right there
....that said, I honestly don't think Prince was ever in detox/withdrawl mode...he COULDN'T have been according to the UA/autopsy resltls. He wouldn't have thrown up prior (in the elevator) due to withdrawl, only once the lethal amount was ingested and evidence of that was in his throat/airway. IMO

Hmmm...are you saying he wouldn't have been withdrawing because he had opiates in his system that day per Dr. S? Good point! [Edited 7/26/18 22:05pm]

yes ma'am-through the roof levels

see my edited to clarify reply#230

[Edited 7/26/18 22:08pm]

PennyPurple said:

So we're assuming they only tested it for opiods and nothing else - sheesh, didn't these people ever watch CSI?

Do any of the pictures taken by the LE include the area where the stain was that KJ was so concerned about?

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said:

Are we all on the same page about the vomit? That he probably vomited before he took the fentanyl laced pill(s)?

If we are, then when got at least 1 thing settled.

So we're assuming they only tested it for opiods and nothing else - sheesh, didn't these people ever watch CSI?

I don't know if they tested it for anything else, but they were looking for narcs for sure.

precioux said:

It appears to me that he was trying to use any and everything in an attempt to recreate the same level of "relief" (for lack of a better word) that he got from the fentanyl....percs, vicodin, hydromorphone/dilaudid, etc. I think he was wary of, and knew the danger of, the disguised vicodin but was truly unaware of how deadly they were....because he did not have any fentanyl from Moline to the 20th, he was likely feeling frustrated (mild withdrawal) that he didn't feel his best. I think he knew exactly how to get back to normal.