I do not remember the specific tabloid paper or magazine, but it referred to the blind item, but did not specifically mention Prince. I saw the headline while standing in the cashier's line, read the article, and because of the description of the celebrity, immediately thought they were speaking of Prince. I was hoping he would not see the publication while he was in Walgreen's. It may be of interest, also, that, in some groups of Yoruba (an african religion but followers, of course, in the Caribbean islands, and elsewhere), clothing is put on the deceased backward so its soul can find it’s way back to the earth to be reborn. Encyclopedia of African Religion, Volume 1 (Page 277) (https://books.google.com/...mp;f=false

This last item was posted sometime ago, but it may have been lost. I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work on the investigative and related threads.

che777x said:

I do not remember the specific tabloid paper or magazine, but it referred to the blind item, but did not specifically mention Prince. I saw the headline while standing in the cashier's line, read the article, and because of the description of the celebrity, immediately thought they were speaking of Prince. I was hoping he would not see the publication while he was in Walgreen's. It may be of interest, also, that, in some groups of Yoruba (an african religion but followers, of course, in the Caribbean islands, and elsewhere), clothing is put on the deceased backward so its soul can find it’s way back to the earth to be reborn. Encyclopedia of African Religion, Volume 1 (Page 277) (https://books.google.com/...mp;f=false

This last item was posted sometime ago, but it may have been lost. I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work on the investigative and related threads.

I just read a new Bruce Lee bio, interestingly, he was found naked by his mistress and his film partner, the producer dressed him and most likely thought of staging a different place of death because of the scandal of dying in a mistresses apt would cause. I immediately thought of Prince, what if someone found him, what if meron found him, dressed him haphazardly, maybe tried to move him, abandoned him in the elevator, suffice to say, there are a million things that we can't know about that night, it's too bad a better forenisic team wasn't around.

PeteSilas said:

che777x said:

I do not remember the specific tabloid paper or magazine, but it referred to the blind item, but did not specifically mention Prince. I saw the headline while standing in the cashier's line, read the article, and because of the description of the celebrity, immediately thought they were speaking of Prince. I was hoping he would not see the publication while he was in Walgreen's. It may be of interest, also, that, in some groups of Yoruba (an african religion but followers, of course, in the Caribbean islands, and elsewhere), clothing is put on the deceased backward so its soul can find it’s way back to the earth to be reborn. Encyclopedia of African Religion, Volume 1 (Page 277) (https://books.google.com/...mp;f=false

This last item was posted sometime ago, but it may have been lost. I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work on the investigative and related threads.

I just read a new Bruce Lee bio, interestingly, he was found naked by his mistress and his film partner, the producer dressed him and most likely thought of staging a different place of death because of the scandal of dying in a mistresses apt would cause. I immediately thought of Prince, what if someone found him, what if meron found him, dressed him haphazardly, maybe tried to move him, abandoned him in the elevator, suffice to say, there are a million things that we can't know about that night, it's too bad a better forenisic team wasn't around.

He might have been moved, imo. In the report the first emergency person to arrive said Kirk took him to the elevator and Prince was inside, lying on his side, I believe. Then when Andrew gave a statement he said he saw that Prince was inside the elevator, lying on his back with his arms to the side. (this before the emergency person arrived). I'm pretty sure I read that discrepancy. Anyone can help me out?

Also, it pisses me off Tyka's stance in that RS article. Chris Cornell's wife created an organization to raise awareness for opioid abuse. Tom Petty's family spoke out against the dangers od opioid abuse, and then Tyka simply stated she's not worried that the police did not come up with an arrest for whoever gave Prince the fentanyl and that that would not bring her brother back. Seems kinda strange to me. It's like they just want the whole thing to go away.

PennyPurple said:

The UA that Dr. S did came back positive for Hydrocodone AND Hydromorphone.

Is it possible that only some of the Pills in the Aleve Bottle contained ONLY Hydrocodone AND Hydromorphone?

and some had Fentanyl cut with them ?

If they were being illigaly manufactured then the quantities of Fentany in each pill could have fluctuated

WOuld explain his feelings of being Antsy and going to the doctor.

ALso the half pills...He was either trying half doses or 1 1/2..

If some of the pills varied in strength, maybe on that day he took the ones that were

weaker ?

He wouldnt have known that some were stronger than others, and

he took an additional pill, instead of his usual half,

and that was one cut with a heap of Fentanyl ?

Or Perhaps he was hurting so bad, he took two, to drift away from it for a bit ?

MMJas said:

He might have been moved, imo. In the report the first emergency person to arrive said Kirk took him to the elevator and Prince was inside, lying on his side, I believe. Then when Andrew gave a statement he said he saw that Prince was inside the elevator, lying on his back with his arms to the side. (this before the emergency person arrived). I'm pretty sure I read that discrepancy. Anyone can help me out?

Also, it pisses me off Tyka's stance in that RS article. Chris Cornell's wife created an organization to raise awareness for opioid abuse. Tom Petty's family spoke out against the dangers od opioid abuse, and then Tyka simply stated she's not worried that the police did not come up with an arrest for whoever gave Prince the fentanyl and that that would not bring her brother back. Seems kinda strange to me. It's like they just want the whole thing to go away.

I read that article and it ticked me off too. His family isn't going to do a darn thing except collect the $$.

Lovejunky said:

PennyPurple said:

The UA that Dr. S did came back positive for Hydrocodone AND Hydromorphone.

Is it possible that only some of the Pills in the Aleve Bottle contained ONLY Hydrocodone AND Hydromorphone?

and some had Fentanyl cut with them ?

If they were being illigaly manufactured then the quantities of Fentany in each pill could have fluctuated

WOuld explain his feelings of being Antsy and going to the doctor.

ALso the half pills...He was either trying half doses or 1 1/2..

If some of the pills varied in strength, maybe on that day he took the ones that were

weaker ?

He wouldnt have known that some were stronger than others, and

he took an additional pill, instead of his usual half,

and that was one cut with a heap of Fentanyl ?

Or Perhaps he was hurting so bad, he took two, to drift away from it for a bit ?

I don't remember the morphone though, but anything could be in those darn pills.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Right. But is that the same room where the 853's were found?

15 white caps Watson 853 found in 2nd floor dressing room. East side of the building.

Bayer bottle with 64 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Aleve bottle with 20 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Wasn't there some 853s found in the hat room in a tissue. These where tested and contained fentayl as well.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

15 white caps Watson 853 found in 2nd floor dressing room. East side of the building.

Bayer bottle with 64 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Aleve bottle with 20 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Wasn't there some 853s found in the hat room in a tissue. These where tested and contained fentayl as well.

Those were the 15 found wrapped in tissue in the jewelry box.

Might I say the investigative team should have hired those of you who have reviewed all of the documents - you seem to be asking questions/have a different perspective than the people who actually were on site. I am very grateful for what you have done and are doing in Prince's honor.

1Sasha said:

Might I say the investigative team should have hired those of you who have reviewed all of the documents - you seem to be asking questions/have a different perspective than the people who actually were on site. I am very grateful for what you have done and are doing in Prince's honor.

I think they missed a few things. They should've gotten that computer that day.

Until we get Kirl's actions, it will be hard to determine somethings on what happened at PP at 9:00. We know Andrew and Meron were waiting in the production room, on the main floor. So, it is possible Kirk looked for Prince in the kitchen area, maybe the studios. I am speculating, but he more than likely checked upstairs. The route Kirk took is what is needed. It will solve alot of the time table and the elevator. But let's say Kirk searched the main(public) level first. He could have gone to the second floor either the steps by the entrance or thru the NPG music club. I am not sure how many staircases there are. He could have came back to Andrew and Meron via the staircase in front of Prince's office upstairs.

I would imagine that Kirk at this time was worried and scared. He gets Meron and instead of using th stairs, they go straight to the elevator.

Now, what we need to know is, when Kirk and Meron accessed the elevator, did the doors open or did they have to wait on the elevator to be called to the main level.

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

with all respect...but I had fent last year in a hospital and, let's just say, when it hits...you ain't moving...it was actually a bit terrifying to me...overwhelming...like being alive and dead at the same time...never again...

Good point about not moving. So in the plane he just went down. JH said she was looking at him then he just was out. Perhaps it was that quick in the elevator too.

Sorry to hear about your experience. But we must put this in context. Your fent was probably administered via IV. That would get in your system faster.

We do not know the pill structure, which would be hard to compute since they are not consistent in content. Prince took pills. That may take longer to disolve into the bloodstream.

However, I believe when the pills hit his bloodstream, he may have been in the elevator, not able to move, in a trance like state. That would explain the vomit/drool on the panel. As the fent continued to disolve, Prince passed from the od.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

In the reports, the testing of the pills were addressed. 1 pill from each container was tested (ie, Bayer, Aleve, tissue paper, etc). The detectives asked why some pills were tested more than once, and the answer was (paraphasing), they tested from each container and tested pills that were different in appearance from the same containers. So not all pills were tested.

PennyPurple said:

1Sasha said:

Might I say the investigative team should have hired those of you who have reviewed all of the documents - you seem to be asking questions/have a different perspective than the people who actually were on site. I am very grateful for what you have done and are doing in Prince's honor.

I think they missed a few things. They should've gotten that computer that day.

Actually, they missed a lot. Even the interviews were not controlled and key questions were not asked.The computer was just one of many things overlooked. They had to go back and swap the elevator.

Even if there was strong predication or reasonable doubt to charge someone, there are so many blunders that the case would be hard to defend.

It seems once they had the cause of death, the attention turned onto who supplied the pills.

Maybe we as fans are more interested on how this happened to Prince and his actions? That is not neccessarily a bad thing.

nelcp777 said:

Until we get Kirl's actions, it will be hard to determine somethings on what happened at PP at 9:00. We know Andrew and Meron were waiting in the production room, on the main floor. So, it is possible Kirk looked for Prince in the kitchen area, maybe the studios. I am speculating, but he more than likely checked upstairs. The route Kirk took is what is needed. It will solve alot of the time table and the elevator. But let's say Kirk searched the main(public) level first. He could have gone to the second floor either the steps by the entrance or thru the NPG music club. I am not sure how many staircases there are. He could have came back to Andrew and Meron via the staircase in front of Prince's office upstairs.

I would imagine that Kirk at this time was worried and scared. He gets Meron and instead of using th stairs, they go straight to the elevator.

Now, what we need to know is, when Kirk and Meron accessed the elevator, did the doors open or did they have to wait on the elevator to be called to the main level.

Great analogy!

I thought they tested more than 1 pill from each container.

nelcp777 said:

Menes said:

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

In the reports, the testing of the pills were addressed. 1 pill from each container was tested (ie, Bayer, Aleve, tissue paper, etc). The detectives asked why some pills were tested more than once, and the answer was (paraphasing), they tested from each container and tested pills that were different in appearance from the same containers. So not all pills were tested.

nelcp777 said:

Until we get Kirl's actions, it will be hard to determine somethings on what happened at PP at 9:00. We know Andrew and Meron were waiting in the production room, on the main floor. So, it is possible Kirk looked for Prince in the kitchen area, maybe the studios. I am speculating, but he more than likely checked upstairs. The route Kirk took is what is needed. It will solve alot of the time table and the elevator. But let's say Kirk searched the main(public) level first. He could have gone to the second floor either the steps by the entrance or thru the NPG music club. I am not sure how many staircases there are. He could have came back to Andrew and Meron via the staircase in front of Prince's office upstairs.

I would imagine that Kirk at this time was worried and scared. He gets Meron and instead of using th stairs, they go straight to the elevator.

Now, what we need to know is, when Kirk and Meron accessed the elevator, did the doors open or did they have to wait on the elevator to be called to the main level.

Exactly.

PeteSilas said:

che777x said:

I do not remember the specific tabloid paper or magazine, but it referred to the blind item, but did not specifically mention Prince. I saw the headline while standing in the cashier's line, read the article, and because of the description of the celebrity, immediately thought they were speaking of Prince. I was hoping he would not see the publication while he was in Walgreen's. It may be of interest, also, that, in some groups of Yoruba (an african religion but followers, of course, in the Caribbean islands, and elsewhere), clothing is put on the deceased backward so its soul can find it’s way back to the earth to be reborn. Encyclopedia of African Religion, Volume 1 (Page 277) (https://books.google.com/...mp;f=false

This last item was posted sometime ago, but it may have been lost. I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work on the investigative and related threads.

I just read a new Bruce Lee bio, interestingly, he was found naked by his mistress and his film partner, the producer dressed him and most likely thought of staging a different place of death because of the scandal of dying in a mistresses apt would cause. I immediately thought of Prince, what if someone found him, what if meron found him, dressed him haphazardly, maybe tried to move him, abandoned him in the elevator, suffice to say, there are a million things that we can't know about that night, it's too bad a better forenisic team wasn't around.

that might explain the cying video. i wish i could consult LR about the video.

This is from Vanity Fair Aug 21, 2016

Thus far, roughly 20 different bottles or pill containers had been analyzed. The anonymous official also said that a prescription bottle containing 10 oxycodone pills in someone else’s name was discovered on the property—though that name remains a mystery for the time being.

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

I just read a new Bruce Lee bio, interestingly, he was found naked by his mistress and his film partner, the producer dressed him and most likely thought of staging a different place of death because of the scandal of dying in a mistresses apt would cause. I immediately thought of Prince, what if someone found him, what if meron found him, dressed him haphazardly, maybe tried to move him, abandoned him in the elevator, suffice to say, there are a million things that we can't know about that night, it's too bad a better forenisic team wasn't around.

He might have been moved, imo. In the report the first emergency person to arrive said Kirk took him to the elevator and Prince was inside, lying on his side, I believe. Then when Andrew gave a statement he said he saw that Prince was inside the elevator, lying on his back with his arms to the side. (this before the emergency person arrived). I'm pretty sure I read that discrepancy. Anyone can help me out?

Also, it pisses me off Tyka's stance in that RS article. Chris Cornell's wife created an organization to raise awareness for opioid abuse. Tom Petty's family spoke out against the dangers od opioid abuse, and then Tyka simply stated she's not worried that the police did not come up with an arrest for whoever gave Prince the fentanyl and that that would not bring her brother back. Seems kinda strange to me. It's like they just want the whole thing to go away.

she has had her own struggles with drug abuse perhaps she feels not up to task to be the leader on such

an issue. it may be just all one can do to manage their own struggle. We are being judgy when

we ask her to do what someone else does. Good for Chris's wife and Petty's family.

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

ok that is something that i just don't understand would be that difficult when

i observe kids dressing dolls all the time, in no time flat. as a matter of fact the

dolls that are the stiffest are the easiest to put clothes on. just saying.

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

ya, but what if someone found him the night before? It sorta astounds me that after all these years, new info is coming out about Bruce Lee, so I'm just thinking of things a little more.

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

I agree. I do not believe he was moved or dressed. I also think, as I said before, Kirk was scared and worried when he did not find Prince at first.

PeteSilas said:

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

ya, but what if someone found him the night before? It sorta astounds me that after all these years, new info is coming out about Bruce Lee, so I'm just thinking of things a little more.

I hear you, but I just don't think Kirk could have kept it together. No offense to Kirk, but he does not seem that strong minded. I am not sure how I feel about Meron.

What irritates me is the line of questioning from the investigators. As far as we know, they did not ask Kirk his route when he first looked for Prince.

They did not ask Meron her or Kirk's actions from 8pm to 10:30 pm the night before. Not to mention, Kirk had his cell during his interview and that was a major interruption. Plus Phaedra was blowing up his phone during the interview.

PeteSilas said:

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

ya, but what if someone found him the night before? It sorta astounds me that after all these years, new info is coming out about Bruce Lee, so I'm just thinking of things a little more.

i kinda think dressing a dead body would bring me to tears too (meron video)

nelcp777 said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, but what if someone found him the night before? It sorta astounds me that after all these years, new info is coming out about Bruce Lee, so I'm just thinking of things a little more.

I hear you, but I just don't think Kirk could have kept it together. No offense to Kirk, but he does not seem that strong minded. I am not sure how I feel about Meron.

What irritates me is the line of questioning from the investigators. As far as we know, they did not ask Kirk his route when he first looked for Prince.

They did not ask Meron her or Kirk's actions from 8pm to 10:30 pm the night before. Not to mention, Kirk had his cell during his interview and that was a major interruption. Plus Phaedra was blowing up his phone during the interview.

and i totally think he could have kept it together to dress him and put him in order. Frankly

i must admit that i would dress anyone i loved if i arrived first before paramedics. (esp if they were not as they would like to have been viewed for example without their wig or partly naked) it would

have been automatic for me to preserve their dignity in that way. i just would have done it, i am

sure of it.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

There is no way they could've dressed him, with the Rigor in his arms.

I agree. I do not believe he was moved or dressed. I also think, as I said before, Kirk was scared and wowould YOU be thinking of or able to dress your still warm, dead, adored, world idol,rried when he did not find Prince at first.

not to mention the emotional state K and Meron would have been in...WHO here would have been able to contemplate dressing the still warm body of your beloved, world class idol boss who was dead at your feet?????Freaking out would have been the appropriate response IMO...not messing with the corpse. OK, Purple fam...I see you could have done it...

[Edited 6/25/18 12:24pm]

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, but what if someone found him the night before? It sorta astounds me that after all these years, new info is coming out about Bruce Lee, so I'm just thinking of things a little more.

i kinda think dressing a dead body would bring me to tears too (meron video)

that's what i'm conjecturing. not as if i know though. in bruce lees case, the mistress was in a puddle on the floor while his film partner put on his clothes, realizing he was already dead, as mentioned by this new author, he most likely thought of getting the body to a different place and in fact lied to the press about the place of death in the next few days.

imagine if they were covering up a suicidefrom three hours before. WOW. Who knows? I give up trying to figure it for now. the truth might take years to find out.

PeteSilas said:

purplefam99 said:

i kinda think dressing a dead body would bring me to tears too (meron video)

that's what i'm conjecturing. not as if i know though. in bruce lees case, the mistress was in a puddle on the floor while his film partner put on his clothes, realizing he was already dead, as mentioned by this new author, he most likely thought of getting the body to a different place and in fact lied to the press about the place of death in the next few days.