Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Looking at the photos from Dr. S office, the jacket did not look like the pullover he was wearing. He also had gloves on at Dr. S.. The jacket on the 20th looked like it had fringe on the sleeve shoulders.

Wow, Penny...you and Menes (BTW, he's MINE) are amazing!!!

You can't believe all of the tabs I have open right now.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Confused . The jacket that was found on him in the elevator is the UA jacket. The other jacket (on the floor in hallway) was worn on the night before he overdosed or the same day as the overdose?

Looking at the photos from Dr. S office, the jacket did not look like the pullover he was wearing. He also had gloves on at Dr. S.. The jacket on the 20th looked like it had fringe on the sleeve shoulders.

Yea, still a bit confusing. I am looking at change of clothes and when.

So far, there is a base(room) on the NE side that more than likely is where usage is occurring on this night/early morning.

The elevator is in close proximity to this particular room.

It is not clear if the elevator door is open or closed when KJ finds him. ( It makes a beeping sound when it automatically opens like most elevators do). No prompt needed. He would have been in there for about 4-5 seconds tops.

Cognizant and aware that he is in the elevator and prompts elevator to descend from floor 2 to 1.

Fear is not the catalyst that drives him to the elevator. There was no fear in Atlanta.

Vomiting is a key component in re: stage he's in during overdose. Still conscious?

So much more.

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

Perhaps when KJ left Andrew and Meron he called the elevator by pressing the key to go up stairs. Perhaps P entered the elevator to go down, never triggered it down it stayed up until KJ called/triggered it to. He then goes and gets Meron.

Could be Purplefam, that makes sense too.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

purplefam99 said:

Menes said: Perhaps when KJ left Andrew and Meron he called the elevator by pressing the key to go up stairs. Perhaps P entered the elevator to go down, never triggered it down it stayed up until KJ called/triggered it to. He then goes and gets Meron.

Could be Purplefam, that makes sense too.

That's why I want to know where did KJ find him and how long it took .

*Notice in the reports the position of the body. So within seconds he's vomiting , door automatically opens(3-5 seconds gap), but there seems to be no attempt to put one foot forward or is positioned in the direction of the door opening. Is this correct or no? If so, gonna have to quantify a lot of this in a smaller increment of time. Milliseconds I guess.

*Notice where the residual from the vomit lands? What position was he in at this time?

There's plenty to work with here.

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Wow, Penny...you and Menes (BTW, he's MINE) are amazing!!!

You can't believe all of the tabs I have open right now.

I thought you left me for that "friend"..

We gotta get a full scope of Wagner and Neslon's reports. Seems to be the hub for initial and accurate accounting.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Could be Purplefam, that makes sense too.

That's why I want to know where did KJ find him and how long it took .

*Notice in the reports the position of the body. So within seconds he's vomiting , door automatically opens(3-5 seconds gap), but there seems to be no attempt to put one foot forward or is positioned in the direction of the door opening. Is this correct or no? If so, gonna have to quantify a lot of this in a smaller increment of time. Milliseconds I guess.

*Notice where the residual from the vomit lands? What position was he in at this time?

There's plenty to work with here.

Hmm. Yes lot's more work.

It almost had to be projectile vomiting for it to hit the front of the elevator like that. I just figured it dripped down to the floor, are you thinking the vomit on the floor is where he was laying?

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

That's why I want to know where did KJ find him and how long it took .

*Notice in the reports the position of the body. So within seconds he's vomiting , door automatically opens(3-5 seconds gap), but there seems to be no attempt to put one foot forward or is positioned in the direction of the door opening. Is this correct or no? If so, gonna have to quantify a lot of this in a smaller increment of time. Milliseconds I guess.

*Notice where the residual from the vomit lands? What position was he in at this time?

There's plenty to work with here.

Hmm. Yes lot's more work.

It almost had to be projectile vomiting for it to hit the front of the elevator like that. I just figured it dripped down to the floor, are you thinking the vomit on the floor is where he was laying?

I'm thinking two differnt positions. (1) Standing /kneeling (2) Prone.

Menes said:

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Hmm. Yes lot's more work.

It almost had to be projectile vomiting for it to hit the front of the elevator like that. I just figured it dripped down to the floor, are you thinking the vomit on the floor is where he was laying?

I'm thinking two differnt positions. (1) Standing /kneeling (2) Prone.

It was under the hand rail on the wall, so he's up (unless he heaved a good one from on his back). Not sure how low the hand rail is but if we get that, we can find trajectory. I think he was still conscious when the elevator stopped. Why he didnt get off, well... or even more so, why did he go in there, is up for discussion.

kmama07 said:

Menes said:

That's why I want to know where did KJ find him and how long it took .

*Notice in the reports the position of the body. So within seconds he's vomiting , door automatically opens(3-5 seconds gap), but there seems to be no attempt to put one foot forward or is positioned in the direction of the door opening. Is this correct or no? If so, gonna have to quantify a lot of this in a smaller increment of time. Milliseconds I guess.

*Notice where the residual from the vomit lands? What position was he in at this time?

There's plenty to work with here.

AND nothing in report or autopsy indicated any signs of aspiration so that wouldnt have kept him from moving himself at some point if he could have

Ah ok. I was wondering about that too. Are you thinking still conscious?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Hmm. Yes lot's more work.

It almost had to be projectile vomiting for it to hit the front of the elevator like that. I just figured it dripped down to the floor, are you thinking the vomit on the floor is where he was laying?

I'm thinking two differnt positions. (1) Standing /kneeling (2) Prone.

Oh, I see, that makes sense.

Menes said:

2004Fan said:

Menes said:

I'm thinking two differnt positions. (1) Standing /kneeling (2) Prone.

I have always had the impression that at 1 point in the elevator, he rested his head near the panel, vomited in this position, felt sicker, lost conciousness and fell on his left side on the carpet. Just a feeling I have after seeing the pictures.

Key point you mention here >>>lost consciousness. This is establishing timeline prior to overdose. Again, we have about 3-5 seconds in that elevator before it hits floor 1 , unless it never moved from floor 2. Within that time frame ( if it is descending), there seems to be no indication that he tried to get out once it stopped. The door had to have opened unless it needed a prompt ( which would be odd). If he's still conscious, I can't understand why there was not an attempt made( per the positioning) if he was trying to get to point b within that same 3-5 seconds. I see no evidence of this. Is not the positioning off?

2004Fan said:

Menes said:

I'm thinking two differnt positions. (1) Standing /kneeling (2) Prone.

I have always had the impression that at 1 point in the elevator, he rested his head near the panel, vomited in this position, felt sicker, lost conciousness and fell on his left side on the carpet. Just a feeling I have after seeing the pictures.

With the way the rug was bunched up under him when they pulled him out, could it be that he fell side to side instead of front to back?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

wait, i thought you didn't think it was a suicide.

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

Yea, that hat business. Where was he going with a knit cap on at that time ? I can make concessions for the socks and so forth, but the hat... What is the purpose ? My ideas aligns with yours regarding such a thing.

kmama07 said:

Menes said:

That's why I want to know where did KJ find him and how long it took .

*Notice in the reports the position of the body. So within seconds he's vomiting , door automatically opens(3-5 seconds gap), but there seems to be no attempt to put one foot forward or is positioned in the direction of the door opening. Is this correct or no? If so, gonna have to quantify a lot of this in a smaller increment of time. Milliseconds I guess.

*Notice where the residual from the vomit lands? What position was he in at this time?

There's plenty to work with here.

AND nothing in report or autopsy indicated any signs of aspiration so that wouldnt have kept him from moving himself at some point if he could have

with all respect...but I had fent last year in a hospital and, let's just say, when it hits...you ain't moving...it was actually a bit terrifying to me...overwhelming...like being alive and dead at the same time...never again...

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

Yea, that hat business. Where was he going with a knit cap on at that time ? I can make concessions for the socks and so forth, but the hat... What is the purpose ? My ideas aligns with yours regarding such a thing.

I never really had any problems with the hat/beanie. For the last 2 years, we have seen a lot of pictures of P wearing a beanie. He even wore one to perform; White House June 2015 and St Barts December 2015. I think he even wore one to sleep. I remember reading somewhere that he slept with a head rag/wrap or something. I cannot remember where I read this though.

PennyPurple said:

2004Fan said:

Menes said: I have always had the impression that at 1 point in the elevator, he rested his head near the panel, vomited in this position, felt sicker, lost conciousness and fell on his left side on the carpet. Just a feeling I have after seeing the pictures.

With the way the rug was bunched up under him when they pulled him out, could it be that he fell side to side instead of front to back?

I believe he fell on his side (3/4) not directly on his back. The EMTs most probably slid him towards the elevator door with a little turn and the carpet just came with him.

[Edited 6/23/18 22:05pm]

WARNING: Remember folks: NO POSTING OF ANY PRINCE DEATH SCENE PICS, BLURRED OR NOT BLURRED.

Anyone posting such will be dealt with severely.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

Yea, that hat business. Where was he going with a knit cap on at that time ? I can make concessions for the socks and so forth, but the hat... What is the purpose ? My ideas aligns with yours regarding such a thing.

I remember pointing that out before. He had no shoes on, but he had the beanie inside?

Where were the shoes/boots found, in the pics, btw? We've seen the jacket and glove. Strange that he did not take the beanie off as well. If he took the jacket off it means it was warm inside enough.

Also, the beanie looks tidy in his head. If he fell/slid, wouldn't the beanie come off, a little at least?

Re Prince's comment to JH about sleeping a lot lately, or more than usual, and nearly falling sleep on stage at some point, and dreamig a lot, etc, which was very unusual for him (the sleep), and the dozing off on the plane, etc:

Was reading that Rolling Stone interview (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/music-fentanyl-opioid-crisis-drug-killed-prince-tom-petty-w521674) and came across this comment, which suddenly made a lot of sense:

*

"On tour in Florida a few years ago, singer-songwriter Todd Snider was looking for OxyContin to help with shoulder and back pain. The dealer didn’t have any, but did give him a fentanyl patch and lollipop. Snider immediately felt the difference. “All the other drugs wake me up,” he says, “but this one knocked me out.” He vowed to never use it again. “I really did get lucky,” he says. “I dodged that one.”

Perhaps Prince WAS taking fentanyl already for a while, but in small doses, and did not know it, cause they were illegal drugs laced with the substance.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Looking at the photos from Dr. S office, the jacket did not look like the pullover he was wearing. He also had gloves on at Dr. S.. The jacket on the 20th looked like it had fringe on the sleeve shoulders.

Yea, still a bit confusing. I am looking at change of clothes and when.

So far, there is a base(room) on the NE side that more than likely is where usage is occurring on this night/early morning.

The elevator is in close proximity to this particular room.

It is not clear if the elevator door is open or closed when KJ finds him. ( It makes a beeping sound when it automatically opens like most elevators do). No prompt needed. He would have been in there for about 4-5 seconds tops.

Cognizant and aware that he is in the elevator and prompts elevator to descend from floor 2 to 1.

Fear is not the catalyst that drives him to the elevator. There was no fear in Atlanta.

Vomiting is a key component in re: stage he's in during overdose. Still conscious?

So much more.

Yes, seems like he was consuming more than his body could handle as the chef mentioned Prince said he was vomiting and one of the Dr's visits IIRC he also mentioned vomiting. Perhaps he had on the lighter black jacket under the fringed jacket...seems he was cold ALL the time which with the weight loss would happen.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

Menes said: AND nothing in report or autopsy indicated any signs of aspiration so that wouldnt have kept him from moving himself at some point if he could have

with all respect...but I had fent last year in a hospital and, let's just say, when it hits...you ain't moving...it was actually a bit terrifying to me...overwhelming...like being alive and dead at the same time...never again...

Sorry for your experience. I did too to relax me pre-surgery for a nerve block near the spine...I was high in seconds and I loved it. i was told by the nurse "it looks like it worked"

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

Yea, that hat business. Where was he going with a knit cap on at that time ? I can make concessions for the socks and so forth, but the hat... What is the purpose ? My ideas aligns with yours regarding such a thing.

I don't ever think he took the hat off after he got home. Probably kicked the shoes off next to the bed. We know he was e-mailing and the last email went out, I think at 10:04pm.

[Edited 6/24/18 7:26am]

The UA that Dr. S did came back positive for Hydrocodone AND Hydromorphone.