Menes said:

Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

Is this legitimate? I wouldn't put it past anyone around him to have taken it and rip it up. https://hollywoodlife-com...verdose%2F

no, no reputable site has posted that, so I think it's fake.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Yea, you step in, doors close, you engage, elevator ascends/descends. I really don't think he died instantaneously. Which begs the question... who came up with the metabolic rate that determined that he died instantaneously? Instant , is instant. He would have had to have taken the "pill"/pills in the elevator to support anything resembling the word"instant'. Not buying the instant business..

Why is there no mention of how many pills he actually took? There is a log of all the pills found but no official mention of how many pills were tested that had the quantative amount of fent in them. Specifically the 853'(?) Thoughts?

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

wait, i thought you didn't think it was a suicide.

PeteSilas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

wait, i thought you didn't think it was a suicide.

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

Just to add... It is entirely possible that the elevator never left the ground floor. Which would beg the question... why get in it? He obviously was laboring by the time he got in there so going back upstairs( whether for help or disorientation) would seem far fetched, unless of course...

This is why we probably need to find out the location of items in relation to the elevator.

I think the elevator never went up. Confused why he would chose to go back up if he was in distress. I know the doves are to your right as you exit the elevator on the the top floor. Any mention of them in relation to the other rooms.

This is interesting. Assuming he's on the first floor .. he starts feeling "good" ,jumps in the elevator but never makes it to where he was going( as in his private quarters)? Also, if he's on the first floor, that would mean that going up means nothing in terms of seeking help.

At this point, I have ruled out fear as the reason he went into that elevator after getting to the point of the infamous "nod". It's a feel good drug and fear is really not an emotional response closely associated with opiate use. What I haven't ruled out is ,intent. Entering into that elevator speaks volumes to me.

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

He traveled a lot so he had to be comfortable “feeding” other spots right? He had to have dosed somewhere on the plane. I hear what your saying about a place of peace and comfort but maybe he didn’t always dose like that? Still thinking.

Yes, I agree, he may have fed in other spots. I just think that PP was "the spot" wth the most privacy one could have.

We're on Part 11, even with the reposting of the coroner's report. Prince, please help us. Amen.

He was never far from his black bag, the bayer and aleve bottles were in the green bedroom on the night stand, then the pill in the sheet.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

has it ever been established in which direction the elevator was heading? also, with regard to functioning cognition: whether he was on the move to seek help, lay down in his bed, say goodby to Studio A...whatever...Prince was clearly EITHER playing Russian Roulette with his pills OR did.not.care.anymore.period.

If he valued his life, he would have checked into a lock-down rehab the day after Moline. Prince was a smart man, he knew his drugs and he knew his body and I believe he knew he was in big trouble physically and (in his mind, at least) big trouble re the Prince persona after the narcan shots.

He was checked out and then he checked out.In retrospect after Moline, it almost seems inevitable.

I'm combing thru it. Ive asked the same thing, re: direction elevator was headed. To engage the elevator, two buttons had to be pushed. Seems it is one to close the door and one to ascend/descend.

I think he took the pills and was heading down in the elevator.

PennyPurple said:

He was never far from his black bag, the bayer and aleve bottles were in the green bedroom on the night stand, then the pill in the sheet.

Were those the 853's or just the withdrawals stuff in that green room ? I'm going to have to really start digging down here. This is bugging me because I truly believe he did not go into that elevator in fear for his life.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

He was never far from his black bag, the bayer and aleve bottles were in the green bedroom on the night stand, then the pill in the sheet.

Were those the 853's or just the withdrawals stuff in that green room ? I'm going to have to really start digging down here. This is bugging me because I truly believe he did not go into that elevator in fear for his life.

The picture I posted earlier of the nightstand shows the aleve and bayer bottles on it, with a bottle of water.

We know he was upstairs because he threw his jacket that he was wearing on the floor.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:50pm]

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Were those the 853's or just the withdrawals stuff in that green room ? I'm going to have to really start digging down here. This is bugging me because I truly believe he did not go into that elevator in fear for his life.

The picture I posted earlier of the nightstand shows the aleve and bayer bottles on it, with a bottle of water.

We know he was upstairs because he threw his jacket that he was wearing on the floor.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:50pm]

Right. But is that the same room where the 853's were found?

PennyPurple said:

I think he took the pills and was heading down in the elevator.

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

The picture I posted earlier of the nightstand shows the aleve and bayer bottles on it, with a bottle of water.

We know he was upstairs because he threw his jacket that he was wearing on the floor.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:50pm]

Right. But is that the same room where the 853's were found?

15 white caps Watson 853 found in 2nd floor dressing room. East side of the building.

Bayer bottle with 64 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Aleve bottle with 20 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Right. But is that the same room where the 853's were found?

15 white caps Watson 853 found in 2nd floor dressing room. East side of the building.

Bayer bottle with 64 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Aleve bottle with 20 1/2 Watson 853 found on nightstand.

Ok. And the jacket was found in that same 2nd floor dressing room on the east side? Or just on the east side? You're phenomenal.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

I think he took the pills and was heading down in the elevator.

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

The vomit was found on the inside of the elevator door. So you are thinking he just waited in the elevator to die?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

I think he took the pills and was heading down in the elevator.

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

Allow me to throw a monkey wrench in here...we have no idea whose vomit it was or when it hit the elevator wall. Were there PP cleaning records indicating every time the kitchens, bathrooms or elevators were cleaned, with initials of the cleaner and time and date noted? (like at Wal Mart for example)...NO...PP was, shall we say, a bit neglected.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

The vomit was found on the inside of the elevator door. So you are thinking he just waited in the elevator to die?

OK. I am assuming it was his vomit. I'm pretty sure a sample was sent off , or no?

We are in PP so I am visualizing this. "Usage" on the east ( Please confirm where jacket was found), Elevator on the north side.

Was the door open or closed when Kirk found him?

The dressing room where the 15 pills were found is on the NE side of the building. #27

Document

Pages

Text

Zoom

p. 28

p. 29

p. 27

«

Page 28 of 214

»

Toggle Description Prince Investigation Files

These are the investigations files released by the Carver County Sheriff's office on the overdose death of Prince.

Original Document (PDF) »

Contributed by: News Documents, The New York Times

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

wait, i thought you didn't think it was a suicide.

Pete, I always thought it was an intentional act with the backwards clothes and elevator chosen specifically to convey at least one message...and maybe more. I have written extensively on this site about this and have called the elevator and the clothes his suicide note.My willingness to'reconsider' any toxicity analysis is just me trying to keep an open mind and it ain't easy.

[Edited 6/23/18 18:22pm]

you did? I thought you were on the totally hooked, accidental od bandwagon, i don't know, it's hard to keep folks straight sometimes. I only know you all carved me up like a thanksgiving turkey when i said it might be suicide.

The jacket was on the 2nd floor laying in the hallway with a black glove.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

The vomit was found on the inside of the elevator door. So you are thinking he just waited in the elevator to die?

OK. I am assuming it was his vomit. I'm pretty sure a sample was sent off , or no?

We are in PP so I am visualizing this. "Usage" on the east ( Please confirm where jacket was found), Elevator on the north side.

Was the door open or closed when Kirk found him?

Pills on the NE side. Elevator on North side.

I thought you said he threw a jacket down? Is that the same under armour jacket that he was wearing when they found him according to #10?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Well, if it is so ( he was headed down) , that would mean he had to engage the elevator and clearly was cognizant enough to perform the operation. I counted about 3 seconds ( for the elevator to engage) after the guy in the video pushes the button.

Now, its a fast drop from 2 to 1,(seconds) then the door opens( or does it)?... He cant make it out. Not even one step. Where was the vomit found?, All of this is occuring in a matter of seconds. Or is it?

Allow me to throw a monkey wrench in here...we have no idea whose vomit it was or when it hit the elevator wall. Were there PP cleaning records indicating every time the kitchens, bathrooms or elevators were cleaned, with initials of the cleaner and time and date noted? (like at Wal Mart for example)...NO...PP was, shall we say, a bit neglected.

That's true, but I think I read where the LE officer made a mental note to swab it because it was still moist, but he didn't until the next day or several days later when it had already dried.

Menes said:

Menes said:

OK. I am assuming it was his vomit. I'm pretty sure a sample was sent off , or no?

We are in PP so I am visualizing this. "Usage" on the east ( Please confirm where jacket was found), Elevator on the north side.

Was the door open or closed when Kirk found him?

Pills on the NE side. Elevator on North side.

I thought you said he threw a jacket down? Is that the same under armour jacket that he was wearing when they found him according to #10?

Check that in the reports. Im confused about the number of jackets here. Point #10

Menes said:

Menes said:

OK. I am assuming it was his vomit. I'm pretty sure a sample was sent off , or no?

We are in PP so I am visualizing this. "Usage" on the east ( Please confirm where jacket was found), Elevator on the north side.

Was the door open or closed when Kirk found him?

Pills on the NE side. Elevator on North side.

I thought you said he threw a jacket down? Is that the same under armour jacket that he was wearing when they found him according to #10?

No, I'm thinking it was the jacket that he was wearing on the 20th at Walgreens.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Pills on the NE side. Elevator on North side.

I thought you said he threw a jacket down? Is that the same under armour jacket that he was wearing when they found him according to #10?

No, I'm thinking it was the jacket that he was wearing on the 20th at Walgreens.

Confused . The jacket that was found on him in the elevator is the UA jacket. The other jacket (on the floor in hallway) was worn on the night before he overdosed or the same day as the overdose?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

No, I'm thinking it was the jacket that he was wearing on the 20th at Walgreens.

Confused . The jacket that was found on him in the elevator is the UA jacket. The other jacket (on the floor in hallway) was worn on the night before he overdosed or the same day as the overdose?

Looking at the photos from Dr. S office, the jacket did not look like the pullover he was wearing. He also had gloves on at Dr. S.. The jacket on the 20th looked like it had fringe on the sleeve shoulders.

Gloves, fringe, black pullover under jacket. The jacket doesn't look black here because of the lighting.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Confused . The jacket that was found on him in the elevator is the UA jacket. The other jacket (on the floor in hallway) was worn on the night before he overdosed or the same day as the overdose?

Looking at the photos from Dr. S office, the jacket did not look like the pullover he was wearing. He also had gloves on at Dr. S.. The jacket on the 20th looked like it had fringe on the sleeve shoulders.

Wow, Penny...you and Menes (BTW, he's MINE) are amazing!!!