Bodhitheblackdog said:

paulludvig said:

Bodhi and Menes, are you the same person? You're at least equally pompous and self-satisfied.

[Edited 4/24/18 9:03am]

paulludvig said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Jesus, Menes...first you only save me a swig from that bottle of the good stuff...and now you've made me cry...for real. I am deeply grateful for your sweet words..but they are words of recognition of a kindred spirit for YOU have been an inspiration and solace to me. Just as no one here gets out alive and we are ALL flawed and suffering and trying to figure out how to survive this thing called life...I believe the best, and perhaps the quickest, path forward toward the light is the one marked truth and honesty....and compassion. All Day/All Night. Thank you for everything...it means a lot.

[Edited 4/24/18 8:24am]

Bodhi and Menes, are you the same person? You're at least equally pompous and self-satisfied.

Paulie Paulie Paulie, the empty vessel making a loud sound. Nonexistent wit and clever by half.

Mumio said:

paulludvig said:

Bodhi and Menes, are you the same person? You're at least equally pompous and self-satisfied.

[Edited 4/24/18 9:03am]

He took a page right out of your "same person" book. The dumbest thing I've seen all day.

Move on folks.

Menes said:

Mumio said:

He took a page right out of your "same person" book. The dumbest thing I've seen all day.

Maybe because the congratulatory circle jerk was getting tedious. YOU ARE ALL AWESOME!

MMJas said:

Btw, where is Zenarose?

Zena got tied up reviewing Mule's book in Tunisia. Passport was confiscated. Mule was transported out of the country to work the Marilyn Monroe murder case and left her at her immigration. Terrible set of circumstances.

MMJas said:

Btw, where is Zenarose?

No doubt standing on the sidelines, where a lot of us are. Waiting.

Mumio said:

MMJas said:

Btw, where is Zenarose?

No doubt standing on the sidelines, where a lot of us are. Waiting.

I find that a great place to be at. I might move back there soon.

luv4u said:

Move on folks.

So you circumsized my post yesterday for poking fun but you let Paul's turtle shell remain in tact for attacking me? What is that all about? You're an interesting moderator , Luv.

Menes said:

luv4u said:

Move on folks.

So you circumsized my post yesterday for poking fun but you let Paul's turtle shell remain in tact for attacking me? What is that all about? You're an interesting moderator , Luv.

It really sucks when someone reports you, eh?

luv4u said:

Menes said:

So you circumsized my post yesterday for poking fun but you let Paul's turtle shell remain in tact for attacking me? What is that all about? You're an interesting moderator , Luv.

It really sucks when someone reports you, eh?

No, it sucks when you can't be impartial and review things without choosing a side. Does Ben know that you do this?

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said:

That interview pissed me off

He's just an idiot.

jtfolden said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Another theory, pure conjecture but just came up - thre is a suspiciously long time gap from Kirk going to the airport and returning to PP with Andrew on the morning of 4/21. Are we sure they weren't already at PP, Andrew was 'experimenting' by trying to work on Prince but using drugs he wasn't licenced to give but it went wrong so to protect his name and reputation they made it out that he had OD'ed himself?

There's no evidence to base any of this on at all and really not that long of a gap after arrival. They know when AK arrived, when he checked into the airport, where they ate breakfast, etc... they know when Kirk and others tried calling PP, etc...

Also, ummm, they know which drugs Prince had taken and none of them were anything AK brought with him. They also have an estimated time of death, which was likely well before AK even landed in the airport. Also, Prince's last known contact with anyone in the world was at 10:03PM the night prior.

Remember that the police never spoke to the person who actually found the body, allegedgly it was Shaun Powell, a bodyguard, so without this info I don't really know how conclusions can be made about where he was, as when the police arrived he had already been moved by paramedics in order to resuscitate him.

[Edited 4/23/18 22:25pm]

So the info they received from the Fire Chief and paramedics (in addition to KJ, MB, and AK) are unreliable? Also, there was evidence in the elevator that what happened to Prince happened there.

If we take KJ's statement, Prince was a 'night-owl' (as we all know)...that being said, I find it odd to say the least that his last communication with anyone was at 10:03 p.m. 4/20/16...the exact time (10:00-10:30?) that KJ and Meron left PP??? Dude would send emails and what not on the daily till 1-3 a.m..

shednz said:

jtfolden said:

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

The push back from Prince is classic addict behaviour - deceit and denial. The bottle that did have mixed drugs had lidocaine and hydrocodone in the same vitamin bottle. No fentanyl in there. There were other pills that were the fentanyl/lidocaine mix around the place - e.g. in the tissue. It was the bayer bottle that he seemed to be clinging to. Yep, the county attorney argues that "Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him" and that's what'll go in the history books, but my reading of the evidence argues that he did know what he was taking. I couldn't guess whether this was "addiction rules over risk" behaviour, or he was doing something more purposeful. Of course, my reading is coloured by my own experiences of 36 years of Prince famdom and my own experience with people with addictions, so it ain't gospel, it's just my reading and I don't have the legitimacy that the county attorney has. Prince is the only one who knew for sure. Oh, and Kirk probably has some idea. RIP. Back to the music.

question: these 15 pills were found in a tissue in a "jewelry box"(?) Anyone know if this is/was the same jewelry box that DR made for him that he had kept all this time? Just wondering...

precioux said:

jtfolden said:

So the info they received from the Fire Chief and paramedics (in addition to KJ, MB, and AK) are unreliable? Also, there was evidence in the elevator that what happened to Prince happened there.

If we take KJ's statement, Prince was a 'night-owl' (as we all know)...that being said, I find it odd to say the least that his last communication with anyone was at 10:03 p.m. 4/20/16...the exact time (10:00-10:30?) that KJ and Meron left PP??? Dude would send emails and what not on the daily till 1-3 a.m..

That's why I think maybe they should've have checked on him before they left.

precioux said:

jtfolden said:

So the info they received from the Fire Chief and paramedics (in addition to KJ, MB, and AK) are unreliable? Also, there was evidence in the elevator that what happened to Prince happened there.

If we take KJ's statement, Prince was a 'night-owl' (as we all know)...that being said, I find it odd to say the least that his last communication with anyone was at 10:03 p.m. 4/20/16...the exact time (10:00-10:30?) that KJ and Meron left PP??? Dude would send emails and what not on the daily till 1-3 a.m..

That is a very interesting conclusion, Precioux...

Is there a copy of the text KJ sent to Dr. S the eve of 4/20 at 11:12 pm?

ghoststory said:

"Come back Prizefight,comback"

If you still drop by here prizefight it would great to hear your thoughts in light of the current release of information.

I don't post often but I remember reading Prizefights thoughts when she/he posted and thinking he or she knows and is bang on

I will add before it was common knowledge Prizefight knew Prince had a hip replacement at the Mayo Clinic in late 2009.

When I lived in the States i met some associates Prince's name came up in conversation. One of the groups family members was there.

We were innocently giggling about stories of his designer purple PJ's and the staff calling him Princeypoo.

It does't feel so innocent now as it could well of been the start of a horrid addiction.

COSIGN!!!!

Ok ... Dr. S [in reference to the valim script] said he had a convo w/Prince about KJ being a long time patient and not wanting to violate trust. He then said Prince asked what the medications were. Dr. S. told him. Dr. S said it was Kirk's preference not to have the valium and Kirk wanted the valium to be administered in a supervised setting. Dr. S said it was his responsibility to be a good doctor and not substitute one problem for another. Prince said, "understood. I will use the other two prescriptions first." Very odd interaction

[Edited 4/24/18 10:15am]

Rebeljuice said:

bondno9 said:

Andif he did come out and admit having issues .. how do you think people would have treated him? With compassion? or disdain? You admit being "pissed" off ... how do you think he would have received that type of attitude on a larger scale from fans? Probably as a form of judgment.

It seems to me that fentanyl was his drug of choice and he chose that over reaching out for help until it was too late - the same story that many an addict, past and present has opted to take part in. Addiction does not discriminate against any sector of society. Fame and fortune do not give you a free pass. The final judgement is that he was an addict who overdosed, and that judgement far outweighs any judgement he may have received had he held his hands up and asked for help.*

If he had asked for help no doubt the reaction would have been all over the place with the KKOOL club on one side and the Bart club on the other, and everything else inbetween - judgmental, critical, praise, love, hope, disdain, horror, scepticism, disbelief, humour.... The whole shebang. But once he came back with a new album, all that would have been forgotten and we would all be arguing over the new music instead... Brilliant, genius, shit, sell out, best ever, worst ever, he was better when he was high, never been this good, boring, mediocre, funky, too long, too short etc etc...

The point being, whatever the judgement he received from his fans and the media would have been temporary. This final judgement that hangs over him now is permanent.

Most importantly though, he would have been alive today and that surely has to be better than any sticks and stones that were thrown at him for wanting to stay alive.

Unfortunetely for him he surrounded himself with people that didn't have the balls to tell it to his face. And he didn't have the balls to face the temporary shame he would have felt owning up.*

*I say all this as a recovering heroin addict who has been clean for 25 years. It takes balls, big fucking balls to own up to the problem, and caring family and friends with big enough balls to call time out on your bullshit. Prince didnt have them and neither did his "friends" and family.

:

WOW! and congradulations on your 25 years....(and on your big balls!!!)

jtfolden said:

shednz said:

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

I haven't read all of the reports yet. So did they get DNA samples from Kirk, Meron, Judith, and Dr. S? I believe Kirk told the investigators that he went through Prince's bag in the hospital, so he would have some plausible deniability there, but it would be interesting to see who the other DNA belonged to.

I don't believe they got dna samples from these people. I didn't see a mention of that -- and frankly, considering how little they agreed to talk to the cops, i doubt they would have given up their dna voluntarily.

tmo1965 said:

jtfolden said:

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

I haven't read all of the reports yet. So did they get DNA samples from Kirk, Meron, Judith, and Dr. S? I believe Kirk told the investigators that he went through Prince's bag in the hospital, so he would have some plausible deniability there, but it would be interesting to see who the other DNA belonged to.

Dibblekins said:

DD55 said:

Hummmm, interesting take on it. Irony, did he realize he had one of the biggest moochers on his payroll?

.

There is so much to this story that we don't know with regards to LG and CK.

.

Why isn't anyone suggesting CK and P knew of each others' drug use? They had to have!

.

I admit I never liked the LG and thought he was manipulative and evil, ever since that Larry King interview in 1999, when the first thing LG said on National TV to LK was to congratulate LK on the birth of his son. Clearly putting P in an uncomfortable spot. Then LG went on and presented himself as the star and P was lucky to have him around.....I didn't see the Sinbad Cross episode until after P passed... sheeesh, I have to stop talking

.

~DD55

.

.
It's a legitimate quotation - taken from Prince's 2004 Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame induction speech.
.
Just put 'Prince Induction Speech' into YT, and you'll find it.

.

Wow, even more poignant then, thanks for clarifying.

DD55 said:

cindyt said:

pricetag said:

Surprised there wasn't more of a spotlight on the Weltons. Something always felt a little off about them--especially the God schtick. Usually, that's what happens, the stronger the faith in God, the bigger the hypocrisy. Also, how does Josh---a guy who tags along with his wife (and, let's face it, an unremarkable talent), get to become the center of things until the point at which he ends up producing a Prince album? Perhaps there's more to it. Two things about the aftermath: their police interview smacks of non-compliance. Their best friend and mentor has died but they want to cut things short because they have another appt. And, of course, the alleged paper shredding. Ask why it's being done first. Then why he's the one doing it.

it's called hiding behind God. (have no idea if thats what happened here but i grew up in church) How would they not know...how would anyone not know..if someone had a pill addiction that bad. every single person in this whole group has to be looked at with skepticism due to the fact that somewhere in this circle was probably the supplier...*and of course I think it was kirk johnson, but you never know...also the chauffeur included...and past associates...and everyone who knew...and anyone in the little town of chanhassen...Prince was not his own supplier. Do you think?

To take that one more step....

.

Why is LG getting a pass here? It’s possible that he supplied P with the drugs, maybe to control him, make P dependent on him so P could try to resurrect his sorry a$$ career. What about Chaka? LG is the one who basically told Mani years ago she did’t know what she was talking about when she express concern that her HUSBAND was using drugs, and told her not do anything.

.

Something’s wrong with this whole picture… the whole JW cult thing, LG so holy, P like a puppy following LG and LG 'hipping' P to the Truth. All just weird. P was never the same guy once he got hooked up with LG. The swear jar, the Jahova talk… P was living his life a lie by trying to be something he wasn’t , it was crushing his real personality, people change but don’t make a 180 like that, and that had to take a toll on him emotionally.

.

Come on? LG’s the biggest moocher of them all. You might say to an extent he basically broke up both of P’s marriages… all to keep him in line in the ‘church’ and selfishly to promote LG himself….LG boxed P into a corner with regards to how he was 'supposed' to run his life. The first thing a brainwasher does is make the subject chnage his daily life. That is what LG did and P was trapped.

.

I think Josh and Hannah brought religion from a different viewpoint and P probably welcomed that.

.

Hope I don’t get snipped, don’t mean to offend anyone…. but I have to let it out. ~DD55

I hope no one minds but I brought this over from the last thread because it was locked before I could respond.

DD55, you hit the nail right on the head with this, for me. I've said pretty much the same things for YEARS. Ever since Prince met Larry, he became such an entirely different person that it was hard not to notice but most contributed it to some "spritual healing" LG provided, that Prince needed after the loss of his first child with Mayte. But it never felt that way to me, at all. It always felt controlling and oppressive and I could never understand why Prince went along with it for so long. And I have wondered out loud more than a few times if there could have possibly been some sort of pharmaceutical reason that Prince to me, was easily being so clearly manipulated.

With everything that's happened, I still wonder and even more so now.

Something else that just occurred to me: besides the whole burden and stress of not wanting anyone to find out about his addiction, perhaps he also worried that he might hit a wrong note or something because of the pain he felt in his hands. (Remember him telling someone he could not play guitar and was concentrating on the piano? Perhaps he meant it literally) One thing is to stop wearing high heels and stop dancing as much, which kinda would also come gradually with age. Another thing altogether is forgetting lyrics and playing the wrong notes. Imagine the stress he must have felt that this could happen to him if he did not take the medication in order to be able to perform?

The more I think about this, the heavier it becomes.

disch said: