laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

Two more excellent posts, Laura.

Since we now know the last two albums had their royalties transferred over to Dreamcorps with the last transfer taking place on April 8th it made me wonder about why Dr K was called.

Then all the crazyness with Tidal. I would love to see when and what other songs were transfered over.

.

Another thing that popped in my head this morning....Wouldn't investigators check Prince's schedule on his laptop/computer for that day (21st)? That would give some insight to whether or not he was planning to go on this invervention--I mean, at least a slight chance. I'm sure Prince kept a daily planner at his desk or maybe he used Outlook, or had an assistant who was doing his planning.....I don't know.

.

What is disturbing is that they did not conduct a search warrant right away, so any personal information Prince had in his private quarters, could have easily been tampered with.

sonshine said:

I'm copying and pasting my post about this from the other thread with emphasis on the need for ongoing debate in light of this report?!: No surprises. But I am surprised at the amount of debate that continues considering this re-inforces what has been stated from the beginning about his cause of death. Accidental overdose of fentanyl. Fentanyl was procured vis the black market from China. Zero proof Prince was otherwise ill. Kirk likely had knowlege of his struggle. No criminal charges likely, at least not serious. Minor charges possible if at all. No wrong doing on the part of several major players. Its as it always has been. Prince OD'd and should have been monitored more closely until real help was secured. A damn shame and a sad, tragic end to a magical life that stopped abruptly and much too soon. ❤ RIP Prince, your loss is still felt deeply here

leec1 said:

Cosign

NotACleverName said:

I have found some mixed reviews about RWW here - https://www.yelp.com/biz/...ill-valley - there are only 15 but the majority are favorable. A few are posted in 2017. Also, this review - https://addictionresource...ab-review/ - of the facility notes this: "....among the best rehabs for cutting edge, evidenced-based drug recovery. It uses pharmacology techniques to manage pain and withdrawal symptoms. It uses psychotherapy to build lasting anti-addiction behaviors and habits. Additional nutritional support is given to rebuild a healthy body and mind for long term relapse prevention". Found another article - https://www.statnews.com/...on-doctor/ - that is positive. Some info to note: "If I had someone in my family who needed to be treated, Howard is who I would call,” said Dr. Corey Waller, an addiction specialist from Grand Rapids, Mich., who has known Kornfeld for years. “If Prince could have seen him, he would have gotten the best medical advice there is.” Howard Kornfeld has a strong reputation among addiction specialists. I would imagine everyone has different experiences and if one were looking for fault (and praise, too), it could be found.

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Yes, I have read the reviews. Not everyone will write about their experiences.

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Did you hear about what happened to Steven Adler (Guns n Roses), while under the care of Dr. Kornfeld?

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https://nypost.com/2017/0...s-drummer/

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The book includes a list of 63 prescriptions her son was prescribed in one month, including Prozac, Valium amd Antabuse — used to treat alcoholism — and lithium, for bipolar disorder.

.

cloveringold85 said:

What I think is of no consequence; however, I do believe this scenario (outpatient/home based) is the ONLY treatment plan he would ever slightly consider. Hence, the reason he was not admitted to Hazelton. While individual state laws and policies are changing, an adult cannot be forced to undergo treatment of any kind.

I feel associates/friends and the like did the best they could under the circumstances. I would imagine they were absolutely worried sick about Prince. I also believe Prince was going to deal with the situation his way and was willing to accept whatever fate had intended.

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

Yes, they are an Outpatient clinic; however, Prince would have needed "intensive treatment" with his addiction; therefore, he would have had to remain on-site with supervision, 24/7. I don't think Prince's case was a simple one, where he could just be treated at his home/PP. Do you think he would need simple treatment?

What I think is of no consequence; however, I do believe this scenario (outpatient/home based) is the ONLY treatment plan he would ever slightly consider. Hence, the reason he was not admitted to Hazelton. While individual state laws and policies are changing, an adult cannot be forced to undergo treatment of any kind. I feel associates/friends and the like did the best they could under the circumstances. I would imagine they were absolutely worried sick about Prince. I also believe Prince was going to deal with the situation his way and was willing to accept whatever fate had intended.

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I respect your opinion.

cloveringold85 said:

Well, here's the thing....if Dr. Kornfeld and/or the facility were operating in a manner that was dangerous to the patients, I would imagine there would be legal ramifications. Patients have rights concerning treatment that does not uphold certain laws. If any of these dissatisfied patients were to report their experiences to the applicable state Medical Board, there would be an investigation. If the claims were founded, the state could suspend/revoke Dr. Kornfeld's license and/or shut down the facility. Neither of these have happened.

cloveringold85 said:

Thank you, Clover.

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

Yes, I have read the reviews. Not everyone will write about their experiences. Did you hear about what happened to Steven Adler (Guns n Roses), while under the care of Dr. Kornfeld? https://nypost.com/2017/0...s-drummer/ The book includes a list of 63 prescriptions her son was prescribed in one month, including Prozac, Valium amd Antabuse — used to treat alcoholism — and lithium, for bipolar disorder.

Well, here's the thing....if Dr. Kornfeld and/or the facility were operating in a manner that was dangerous to the patients, I would imagine there would be legal ramifications. Patients have rights concerning treatment that does not uphold certain laws. If any of these dissatisfied patients were to report their experiences to the applicable state Medical Board, there would be an investigation. If the claims were founded, the state could suspend/revoke Dr. Kornfeld's license and/or shut down the facility. Neither of these have happened.

.

That is very true. There would have to be several people to complain before any action would be taken.

Here's Howard Kornfeld's medical license info from Califonia:

https://search.dca.ca.gov...1dbbc2795d

It shows a current license with no public-record actions against him (such as malpractice judgments/settlements, hospital disciplinary actions or legal convictions)

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It also lists board certifications in pain medicine, addiction psychiatry, and emergency medicine

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

Yes, I have read the reviews. Not everyone will write about their experiences. Did you hear about what happened to Steven Adler (Guns n Roses), while under the care of Dr. Kornfeld? https://nypost.com/2017/0...s-drummer/ The book includes a list of 63 prescriptions her son was prescribed in one month, including Prozac, Valium amd Antabuse — used to treat alcoholism — and lithium, for bipolar disorder.

Well, here's the thing....if Dr. Kornfeld and/or the facility were operating in a manner that was dangerous to the patients, I would imagine there would be legal ramifications. Patients have rights concerning treatment that does not uphold certain laws. If any of these dissatisfied patients were to report their experiences to the applicable state Medical Board, there would be an investigation. If the claims were founded, the state could suspend/revoke Dr. Kornfeld's license and/or shut down the facility. Neither of these have happened.

[Edited 1/31/18 17:13pm]

I don't need to see Dr. Kornfeld's medical license/certifications; it won't change my opinion of him.

I hear you -- i wasn't so much trying to argue that he's a stellar doctor (I don't really know anything about his outcomes either way), just that the standard public info available about him doesn't shed light on any particular bad practices. If there was something disrepeputable about him, I'm not sure how Prince's associates would have found that info, especially in the very short time in which he was pulled into the situation (less than a day)

cloveringold85 said:

I don't need to see Dr. Kornfeld's medical license/certifications; it won't change my opinion of him.

disch said:

He wasn't "pulled" into the situation, he chose to take a critical high profile case that he could not attend to immediately. He never should have accepted prince as a client, he should have guided princes people to a doctor that could have been there immediately. Had a recommended addiction specialist seen prince the day the call was made to kornfeld, kornfeld could actually have taken credit for getting the ball rolling in the right direction. But because he irresponsibly decided to take princes case, the ball never rolled anywhere, game over...thanks kornfeld...

I agree with that -- if there was someone local who kornfeld could have recommended, he should have done that. I don't know if I would say that would have prevented Prince's death -- it all depends on what Prince agreed to or not -- but in retrospect it would have been better.

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My guess is that after he received the treatment and withdrawal prescriptions at the hospital on April 20, Prince must have convinced those around him that the situation was under contol and he would be OK until the next morning.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

disch said:

I hear you -- i wasn't so much trying to argue that he's a stellar doctor (I don't really know anything about his outcomes either way), just that the standard public info available about him doesn't shed light on any particular bad practices. If there was something disrepeputable about him, I'm not sure how Prince's associates would have found that info, especially in the very short time in which he was pulled into the situation (less than a day)

He wasn't "pulled" into the situation, he chose to take a critical high profile case that he could not attend to immediately. He never should have accepted prince as a client, he should have guided princes people to a doctor that could have been there immediately. Had a recommended addiction specialist seen prince the day the call was made to kornfeld, kornfeld could actually have taken credit for getting the ball rolling in the right direction. But because he irresponsibly decided to take princes case, the ball never rolled anywhere, game over...thanks kornfeld...

sonshine said:

If the horse was alive would it be o.k. To beat it? Or just don't beat the dead ones?

This madness will never end!!!!! Poor Prince. People still re-hashing the very private, personal events of 4/21/16. Does anyone here ever talk about anything else Prince-related? I do appreciate those of you who attempt valiantly to be the voice of reason and common sense. God bless you. Yet i wish these threads would go away forever.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

These emoticons are fun, no?

:bomb:

Oops sorry, not sorry for going off-topic. :-D

Carry on. If you must.

sonshine said:

This madness will never end!!!!! Poor Prince. People still re-hashing the very private, personal events of 4/21/16. Does anyone here ever talk about anything else Prince-related? I do appreciate those of you who attempt valiantly to be the voice of reason and common sense. God bless you. Yet i wish these threads would go away forever.

And I say that as one of the enthusiastic horsebeaters. No actual new facts have come out about this in nearly a year, and unless/until some few facts come to light, we're all just recycling the same conversations.

Menes said:

OperatingThetan said:

luvsexy4all said: Was he? Or was he protecting Prince's privacy? Kirk was Prince's close friend for decades; his best man at his first wedding in '96. It's very likely he was also involved in trying to get Prince legitimate help. After all, it was Kirk who drove Prince to the hospital and accompanied him to the pharmacy on the last day of his life. Whatever, I for one will not be assuming a man is guilty of murder without evidence. Prince lived the way he chose based on very unfortunate circumstances in his last year. To suggest Prince didn't know the risks after overdosing and nearly dying just 5 days before simply isn't credible. Prince had just seen a hospital doctor, had legitimate prescribed medication and knew professional help was arriving just hours later the next morning, yet STILL took medication from an illegally obtained stash. I'm very smpathetic to Prince's circumstances but still feel the majority of the responsibility is likely Prince's own

The mind of an addict , specifically, one addicted for many years, is fraught with things unimaginable to a person who has a normal brain. This is a brain disease that has modified perceptions and thought processes in regards to wrong/right, moral/immoral , life/death.

The convenience of being a pathological liar, master manipulator and arbitrator of all things "self" ,is merely a by-product of mutated cells that are receptive to constant bombardment for reward.The incessant paradigm of someone addicted to drugs, is usually coupled with one rule that is adhered to. That rule is to get high to sustain every psychological and physical trigger throughout the day. Prince's reward system is no different in that regard. Death and destruction are usually the only path of escape once the addiction begins to override all things rational.

He used just about everyone around him to facilitate this disease, most of them being unknown participants. Prince is merely a victim of his own consequences. It matters not if he thought he was "self'medicating". His actions are in line with a person who has decided to let his addiction govern his actions.

BRILLIANT...people have to remember that the addicts' brain is DIFFERENT than a 'normal' brain. Addiction is a disease that changes the physical structure and function of the brain. On the outside, he still looked like Prince.On the inside, he had become someone else. The question in this moment is, can those of us whose very lives were lived with Prince in the background 24/7 be gracious and compassionate enough to be able to love both of him?

sonshine said:

Prince up in heaven right now looking down on all of us like:

sonshine said:

This madness will never end!!!!! Poor Prince. People still re-hashing the very private, personal events of 4/21/16. Does anyone here ever talk about anything else Prince-related? I do appreciate those of you who attempt valiantly to be the voice of reason and common sense. God bless you. Yet i wish these threads would go away forever.

Sonshine, you continually keep coming into these threads that cause you so much distress to berate others who want to continue to talk about this. Why are you STILL doing this? You use this to signify something about people who want to talk about this, yet you are apparently blind to the effect of your own actions.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Agree 100%, lovesymbol. Unbelievably sad and unprofessional.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

OperatingThetan said:

luvsexy4all said: Was he? Or was he protecting Prince's privacy? Kirk was Prince's close friend for decades; his best man at his first wedding in '96. It's very likely he was also involved in trying to get Prince legitimate help. After all, it was Kirk who drove Prince to the hospital and accompanied him to the pharmacy on the last day of his life. Whatever, I for one will not be assuming a man is guilty of murder without evidence. Prince lived the way he chose based on very unfortunate circumstances in his last year. To suggest Prince didn't know the risks after overdosing and nearly dying just 5 days before simply isn't credible. Prince had just seen a hospital doctor, had legitimate prescribed medication and knew professional help was arriving just hours later the next morning, yet STILL took medication from an illegally obtained stash. I'm very smpathetic to Prince's circumstances but still feel the majority of the responsibility is likely Prince's own

Very good questions that I can honestly say, I do not know the answers to. Because on top of EVERYTHING Prince EVER was and did, for damn near 40 years. In the span of two weeks time-- he suddenly became just another drug addicted junkie musician-- that succumbed to the detriment of his own vices. While all those that actually were, would, should, and could have been there-- FOR Prince-- when it mattered MOST of all...WERE NOT!

Two weeks, people! Two motherfucking weeks!!! Of this entire gigantic clusterfuck; that part somehow, seems feasible and really just doesn't bother y'all in any way?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Very good questions that I can honestly say, I do not know the answers to. Because on top of EVERYTHING Prince EVER was and did, for damn near 40 years. In the span of two weeks time-- he suddenly became just another drug addicted junkie musician-- that succumbed to the detriment of his own vices. While all those that actually were, would, should, and could have been there-- FOR Prince-- when it mattered MOST of all...WERE NOT!

Two weeks, people! Two motherfucking weeks!!! Of this entire gigantic clusterfuck; that part somehow, seems feasible and really just doesn't bother y'all in any way?

bothers the hell out of me.

There have been complaints about him in the public not official and unfortunatly this happens with doctors patients are unhappy but they do not take their complaints to the state board. There is bad info out about his center and he did conduct himself in a unprofessional manner concerning Prince.

disch said:

I hear you -- i wasn't so much trying to argue that he's a stellar doctor (I don't really know anything about his outcomes either way), just that the standard public info available about him doesn't shed light on any particular bad practices. If there was something disrepeputable about him, I'm not sure how Prince's associates would have found that info, especially in the very short time in which he was pulled into the situation (less than a day)

cloveringold85 said:

I don't need to see Dr. Kornfeld's medical license/certifications; it won't change my opinion of him.

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

Since we now know the last two albums had their royalties transferred over to Dreamcorps with the last transfer taking place on April 8th it made me wonder about why Dr K was called.

Then all the crazyness with Tidal. I would love to see when and what other songs were transfered over.

.

Another thing that popped in my head this morning....Wouldn't investigators check Prince's schedule on his laptop/computer for that day (21st)? That would give some insight to whether or not he was planning to go on this invervention--I mean, at least a slight chance. I'm sure Prince kept a daily planner at his desk or maybe he used Outlook, or had an assistant who was doing his planning.....I don't know.

.

What is disturbing is that they did not conduct a search warrant right away, so any personal information Prince had in his private quarters, could have easily been tampered with.

According to Harry Belefonte he was suppose to meet with Prince later that week. I once again doubt he was going to California to rehab. We do know that someone moved his laptop when the police came back to get it from the search warrants.

[Edited 2/1/18 6:51am]

Can you link to the complaints? I know about Guns N Roses one -- where did you find about the other complaints?

laurarichardson said:

There have been complaints about him in the public not official and unfortunatly this happens with doctors patients are unhappy but they do not take their complaints to the state board. There is bad info out about his center and he did conduct himself in a unprofessional manner concerning Prince.

disch said:

I hear you -- i wasn't so much trying to argue that he's a stellar doctor (I don't really know anything about his outcomes either way), just that the standard public info available about him doesn't shed light on any particular bad practices. If there was something disrepeputable about him, I'm not sure how Prince's associates would have found that info, especially in the very short time in which he was pulled into the situation (less than a day)

But according to you, Prince intentionally ended his life on April 21, due to his terminal cancer. So it make sense that he would have a meeting on his schedule with Belafonte for a day when he expected to be dead, but not after he went to rehab?

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(and I'm still not understanding the relevance of what rehab treatment he had or hadn't agreed to on April 20. It's very common that addicts don't want certain treatment, and then they get persuaded during an intervention. In fact, that's pretty similar to what Kornfeld's lawyer said in May 2016: "“The hope was to get him stabilized in Minnesota and convince him to come to Recovery Without Walls in Mill Valley.")

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Another thing that popped in my head this morning....Wouldn't investigators check Prince's schedule on his laptop/computer for that day (21st)? That would give some insight to whether or not he was planning to go on this invervention--I mean, at least a slight chance. I'm sure Prince kept a daily planner at his desk or maybe he used Outlook, or had an assistant who was doing his planning.....I don't know.

.

What is disturbing is that they did not conduct a search warrant right away, so any personal information Prince had in his private quarters, could have easily been tampered with.

According to Harry Belefonte he was suppose to meet with Prince later that week. I once again doubt he was going to California to rehab. We do know that someone moved his laptop when the police came back to get it from the search warrants.

[Edited 2/1/18 6:51am]

If he decided to end his life on that day. Do you think he would have called Harry and said "Hey dude I am killing myself tonight and I cannot not make the meeting this week.?

Do you think just maybe that meeting was planned the week or so before? Don't you think it is strange that he was suppose to be packing his bags and going to Califorinia if he had a meeting set up with some Holistic healing center and Harry who is based out of NY>

Maybe he decided that day to take his life you know at 1:00 in the morning. He certainly did not clear his calander for rehab or even show up in the lobby to meet Andrew.

Don't you think not clearing the schudule makes it appear that things are just going along as they normally due which would not alarm anyone.

In fact if they were going to stablize him why not do it at the hospital since it was already checked in the day before.

You keep forgetting Prince choose to leave that hospital with access to legit meds.

disch said:

But according to you, Prince intentionally ended his life on April 21, due to his terminal cancer. So it make sense that he would have a meeting on his schedule with Belafonte for a day when he expected to be dead, but not after he went to rehab?

-

(and I'm still not understanding the relevance of what rehab treatment he had or hadn't agreed to on April 20. It's very common that addicts don't want certain treatment, and then they get persuaded during an intervention. In fact, that's pretty similar to what Kornfeld's lawyer said in May 2016: "“The hope was to get him stabilized in Minnesota and convince him to come to Recovery Without Walls in Mill Valley.")

laurarichardson said:

According to Harry Belefonte he was suppose to meet with Prince later that week. I once again doubt he was going to California to rehab. We do know that someone moved his laptop when the police came back to get it from the search warrants.

[Edited 2/1/18 6:51am]