Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Jesus I meant it as a question. Yes, if a person does not want to go to an intervention it is a waste of time. It is great if they want to be at the intervention.

Jesus is currently unavailable due to a laundry list of shit Manuela and Mayte submitted to the heavenly hosts in order to prohibit Prince from entering into the holy of holies.

Jesus has time for fools for and babies.

What is your point? No one said he not struggling with drugs and no one said he did not die of an overdoes. Some of us believe other health issues were simultanoulsy taking place and we have no proof that he was on board with any sort of intervention.

Not really that complicated. In addition, what is shocking about being dependent on pain meds if you are in pain. Not sure what some of you would have him do otherwise.

leec1 said:

disch said:

I think with an intervention, the idea is to persuade someone to get help if they're resistent. I think if someone is totally on board and seeking treatment, they wouldn't require an intervention per se.

-

With Prince, I don't think we really know if he had specifically agreed to Dr. K's plan, or if he hadn't and the goal was to get him on board.

leec1 said:

Below are excerpts of 2 articles from the New York Times. I have trust in the New York Times (being a life long New Yorker and seeing their coverage of many events over the years).

I believe the New York Times when they indicate Prince decided to seek treatment.

I also believe that when they quote Dr. Johnson in the second article, who heads Minnesota's Opiod Work Group, that what is being stated is based on facts not supposition. Until I see verifiable evidence stating otherwise, then Prince was struggling with an addiction and the outcome was an overdose.

Prince’s Addiction and an Intervention Too Late The New York Times 5/6/16


Many of Prince’s closest friends, relatives and associates have declined to answer questions about his health. So it is unclear who contacted Dr. Kornfeld, but a person with knowledge of the situation said the musician had willingly sought treatment.

The New York Times Prince’s Death: One Year Later, Unsolved Mysteries
“Prince’s death has raised the profile of the opioid crisis even further,” said Dr. Chris Johnson, chairman of the Minnesota Department of Human Services Opioid Prescribing Work Group.

“Even though Prince’s final dose and exit was illicit,” Dr. Johnson said, “the reason he needed it was because of the years of prescriptions that got him on that path.”

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

Jesus is currently unavailable due to a laundry list of shit Manuela and Mayte submitted to the heavenly hosts in order to prohibit Prince from entering into the holy of holies.

Jesus has time for fools for and babies.

You need to come change me, I'm messy. Pick something up, like a book when you're on the way.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Jesus has time for fools for and babies.

You need to come change me, I'm messy. Pick something up, like a book when you're on the way.

We have entered the no troll zone.

laurarichardson said:

What is your point? No one said he not struggling with drugs and no one said he did not die of an overdoes. Some of us believe other health issues were simultanoulsy taking place and we have no proof that he was on board with any sort of intervention.

Not really that complicated. In addition, what is shocking about being dependent on pain meds if you are in pain. Not sure what some of you would have him do otherwise.

leec1 said:

leec1 said:

Below are excerpts of 2 articles from the New York Times. I have trust in the New York Times (being a life long New Yorker and seeing their coverage of many events over the years).

I believe the New York Times when they indicate Prince decided to seek treatment.

I also believe that when they quote Dr. Johnson in the second article, who heads Minnesota's Opiod Work Group, that what is being stated is based on facts not supposition. Until I see verifiable evidence stating otherwise, then Prince was struggling with an addiction and the outcome was an overdose.

Prince’s Addiction and an Intervention Too Late The New York Times 5/6/16


Many of Prince’s closest friends, relatives and associates have declined to answer questions about his health. So it is unclear who contacted Dr. Kornfeld, but a person with knowledge of the situation said the musician had willingly sought treatment.

The New York Times Prince’s Death: One Year Later, Unsolved Mysteries
“Prince’s death has raised the profile of the opioid crisis even further,” said Dr. Chris Johnson, chairman of the Minnesota Department of Human Services Opioid Prescribing Work Group.

“Even though Prince’s final dose and exit was illicit,” Dr. Johnson said, “the reason he needed it was because of the years of prescriptions that got him on that path.”

leec1 said:

My point is what is stated in the New York Times article that Prince was willing to seek treatment for addiction.

Until I see evidence such as: autopsy report, law enforcement data which states there was another illness, then I do not believe he had any other issues in addition to the addiction.

It would seem based on Dr. Johnson's statements that Prince's problem was addiction as nothing else is stated by this doctor. Due to the nature of Dr. Johnson's involvement as chairman of the Opiod Workgroup, should mean he has access to Prince's medical records.

leec1 said:

laurarichardson said:

What is your point? No one said he not struggling with drugs and no one said he did not die of an overdoes. Some of us believe other health issues were simultanoulsy taking place and we have no proof that he was on board with any sort of intervention.

Not really that complicated. In addition, what is shocking about being dependent on pain meds if you are in pain. Not sure what some of you would have him do otherwise.

leec1 said:

My point is what is stated in the New York Times article that Prince was willing to seek treatment for addiction.

Until I see evidence such as: autopsy report, law enforcement data which states there was another illness, then I do not believe he had any other issues in addition to the addiction.

It would seem based on Dr. Johnson's statements that Prince's problem was addiction as nothing else is stated by this doctor. Due to the nature of Dr. Johnson's involvement as chairman of the Opiod Workgroup, should mean he has access to Prince's medical records.

You have no proof that he would of have acesss to Prince's medical records and even if he did he is only going to discuss the facts concerning his death. There would be no reason for any official to discuss anything eles surrounding his health and since HIPPA covers patients after death for 50 years we will not be hearing about any other health issues he had from officials.

Now bring something else. I honestly hope some of you on are getting a paycheck for this.

Acutally, you did say he wasn't struggling with drugs. You said that although he may have developed an addiction, it wasn't a problem because he was using the drugs to keep himself comfortable in his final weeks before he ended his life due to his terminal cancer.

laurarichardson said:

What is your point? No one said he not struggling with drugs and no one said he did not die of an overdoes. Some of us believe other health issues were simultanoulsy taking place and we have no proof that he was on board with any sort of intervention.

Not really that complicated. In addition, what is shocking about being dependent on pain meds if you are in pain. Not sure what some of you would have him do otherwise.

leec1 said:

leec1 said:

Below are excerpts of 2 articles from the New York Times. I have trust in the New York Times (being a life long New Yorker and seeing their coverage of many events over the years).

I believe the New York Times when they indicate Prince decided to seek treatment.

I also believe that when they quote Dr. Johnson in the second article, who heads Minnesota's Opiod Work Group, that what is being stated is based on facts not supposition. Until I see verifiable evidence stating otherwise, then Prince was struggling with an addiction and the outcome was an overdose.

Prince’s Addiction and an Intervention Too Late The New York Times 5/6/16


Many of Prince’s closest friends, relatives and associates have declined to answer questions about his health. So it is unclear who contacted Dr. Kornfeld, but a person with knowledge of the situation said the musician had willingly sought treatment.

The New York Times Prince’s Death: One Year Later, Unsolved Mysteries
“Prince’s death has raised the profile of the opioid crisis even further,” said Dr. Chris Johnson, chairman of the Minnesota Department of Human Services Opioid Prescribing Work Group.

“Even though Prince’s final dose and exit was illicit,” Dr. Johnson said, “the reason he needed it was because of the years of prescriptions that got him on that path.”

I hope you get the help you need. Dude If I think he was dying and actually took enough drugs to kill a whale why would I see him as struggling in the early mornings of April 21st. If I believe he was doing at that time what he wanted to do.

I never said he was not using pain pills. I just think he decided that day enough was enough and he was not struggling anymore.

How many ways does this need to be explained and what is your real agenda? If you do not believe he was dying of cancer then so be it. What is it about this idea that is burning your butt cheecks?

Do you work for the family? Do you work for the estate? Or you a part of the secret keeping force?

Why do you care? It will all come out one day. For 30 years we had no idea he was as charitable as he was and that came out and since we do not have a lot of slanderous stories he was not a wild as we think either.

Nothing was as it appeared with him. You saw what he wanted you to see right to the end.

disch said:

Acutally, you did say he wasn't struggling with drugs. You said that although he may have developed an addiction, it wasn't a problem because he was using the drugs to keep himself comfortable in his final weeks before he ended his life due to his terminal cancer.

laurarichardson said:

What is your point? No one said he not struggling with drugs and no one said he did not die of an overdoes. Some of us believe other health issues were simultanoulsy taking place and we have no proof that he was on board with any sort of intervention.

Not really that complicated. In addition, what is shocking about being dependent on pain meds if you are in pain. Not sure what some of you would have him do otherwise.

dance4me3121 said:

purplefam99 said:

disch said:

I think Dr K was scheduled to arrive the next day, so it was really just about that one-day interval in between where they got Andrew involved, from what I know.

-

I think the thing that makes this hard is, we don't know what Prince was agreeing to, if anything. He could very well have refused to go to a local treatment center. Then what? I don't think there's any way that you can physically force a competent adult to get treatment if they don't want it (except maybe if they were arrested and court-ordered or something).

-

I'm not saying this was all some smooth, perfectly by-the-book operation. It would have been way better for sure if he had just gone to Hazelton or something. But you can only do what the patient will agree to, and then you might have to improvise around that, and bend the rules a little.

[Edited 1/30/18 18:06pm]

Well if Kornfeld’s practice name “ recovery without walls” means anything then it might suggest that Prince wanted Or was more willing to do a detox plan in PP. He probably wouldn’t want to go to Hazelton where he could not control his environment or the possible privacy invasion. But if without walls means you can do it without confinement then he may have been aware that help was coming and the presence of illicitly made drugs still in house was a temptation and unregulated Mess that night.

.

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it.

.

From Recovery Without Walls website:

.

While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement.

cloveringold85 said:

purplefam99 said:

disch said: Well if Kornfeld’s practice name “ recovery without walls” means anything then it might suggest that Prince wanted Or was more willing to do a detox plan in PP. He probably wouldn’t want to go to Hazelton where he could not control his environment or the possible privacy invasion. But if without walls means you can do it without confinement then he may have been aware that help was coming and the presence of illicitly made drugs still in house was a temptation and unregulated Mess that night.

.

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it.

.

From Recovery Without Walls website:

.

While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement.

I do not think he was going to that place and they have had some problems at that facility.

disch said:

I agree that sounds plausible Purple. He refused an in-patient program and perhaps agreed to even consider only an at-home program as offered by Dr K. I do think if he had wanted to be in an in-patient facility, he would have checked himself into one. I doubt the people around him were doing aything to prevent him from doing that.

purplefam99 said:

disch said: Well if Kornfeld’s practice name “ recovery without walls” means anything then it might suggest that Prince wanted Or was more willing to do a detox plan in PP. He probably wouldn’t want to go to Hazelton where he could not control his environment or the possible privacy invasion. But if without walls means you can do it without confinement then he may have been aware that help was coming and the presence of illicitly made drugs still in house was a temptation and unregulated Mess that night.

.

Dr. Kornfeld treats people in their home?

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Jesus I meant it as a question. Yes, if a person does not want to go to an intervention it is a waste of time. It is great if they want to be at the intervention.

Jesus is currently unavailable due to a laundry list of shit Manuela and Mayte submitted to the heavenly hosts in order to prohibit Prince from entering into the holy of holies.

.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it.

.

From Recovery Without Walls website:

.

While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement.

I do not think he was going to that place and they have had some problems at that facility.

.

Yes, I am well-aware of that. I stated that Dr. K has a terrible reputation, and some here (not you) just ignore that fact.

What I said in my Post #250:

.

I respect what you are saying. I'm not saying that Andrew & Dr. K. did not want to help Prince, but they did not follow the correct procedure, which raises a big red flag for me.

.

Personally-speaking; it does in fact matter to me if laws were broken because that shows ill-intent on Dr. Kornfeld and Andrew's part. Not only was it unethical and unprofessional what they did; it was also unlawful, and they knew this beforehand, so that makes it even worse, from where I see it.

.

Have you researched Dr. Kornfeld?recovery Without Walls? He has a terrible reputation and many of his patients said they almost died under his care. He loaded them up with dope and did not help them at all. You have to understand, we are talking about a facility that treats rocks stars and celebrities in Hollywood and they make millions of dollars, along with these pharmaceutical companies. There are some treatment centers do have a good reputation, but Recovery Without Walls is certainly not one of them.

.

NotACleverName said:

Judith Hill reveals in her NYT article - https://www.nytimes.com/2...plane.html - that Prince was on board with the idea and plan for professional help as it related to an addiction. Paragraph 26 she says this...."He was very cooperative the whole night," she says, "serious about getting help." Paragraph 27 she reveals intended cooperation....Prince came around to the notion that he needed help. As he promised, he began taking steps to heal himself. He underwent tests by Dr. Michael Schulenberg. (most likely the visit on 4/20)* Paragraph 28 she explains Prince's thought process why help was needed....."He did it because he was concerned and he wanted to do the right thing for his own body," Ms. Hill said. "And that's the part that breaks my heart, because he was trying. He was trying." Paragraph 29....Dr. Schulenberg arrived at PP w/the results of some tests, officials have said, just after Prince had been declared dead. (I believe this visit was planned as these test results were needed before any treatment was to begin)* What I'm curios about is why in the world would Prince not tell the treating doctor, at the hospital the night of the od, that it was not necessary to convince him of the benefits of staying in the hospital because he had terminal cancer and was medicating to ease his physical pain? Why placate JH with the promise to "heal himself" if he had terminal cancer? Why continue the charade of an addiction while withholding the fact he was going to die soon due to cancer? If there is anything that is nonsensical and mysterious to this entire situation it is the fact that Prince had terminal cancer and chose to perpetuate the addict notion rather than the cancer diagnosis. *MY personal thoughts - text not included in article

No one every said that an addiction to pain pills was a myth. Follow me.

1) He is using pain pills due to joint pain.

2) He is using too much and has now moved from depedency to addiction.

3) Somewhere along the way he gets either a cancer diagnois that is dire or a reccurance of cancer that he made of had before.

4) Not wanting to alarm the people around him and to keep things private. He does not mention one problem and only a few no about the pain pill issue.

5) There would be no point in staying in any hospital for cancer treatment if the cancer were terminal and if his plans are to end his life.

Many times when people are thinking of ending their life they appear calm and under control. They give things away and make admends with people. They have made up their mind.

Now all of these things are just my theories based on what I have read. I figure it some of you can give an analysis of a drug addict I can give my senerio. I cannot figure out why some of you do not understand what terminal means. No care needed.

cloveringold85 said:

What I said in my Post #250:

.

I respect what you are saying. I'm not saying that Andrew & Dr. K. did not want to help Prince, but they did not follow the correct procedure, which raises a big red flag for me.

.

Personally-speaking; it does in fact matter to me if laws were broken because that shows ill-intent on Dr. Kornfeld and Andrew's part. Not only was it unethical and unprofessional what they did; it was also unlawful, and they knew this beforehand, so that makes it even worse, from where I see it.

.

Have you researched Dr. Kornfeld?recovery Without Walls? He has a terrible reputation and many of his patients said they almost died under his care. He loaded them up with dope and did not help them at all. You have to understand, we are talking about a facility that treats rocks stars and celebrities in Hollywood and they make millions of dollars, along with these pharmaceutical companies. There are some treatment centers do have a good reputation, but Recovery Without Walls is certainly not one of them.

.

You and I have mentioned this before. Dr. K does not have a good rep. It made me question Pheadra's judgement if she called this person for help. I am not so sure things would have worked out if Prince had gone with these people and know Andrew should not have been in PP with those drugs.

The whole thing is shady as hell.

Two more excellent posts, Laura.

cloveringold85 said:

1Sasha said:

Two more excellent posts, Laura.

Since we now know the last two albums had their royalties transferred over to Dreamcorps with the last transfer taking place on April 8th it made me wonder about why Dr K was called.

Then all the crazyness with Tidal. I would love to see when and what other songs were transfered over.

I wonder if investigators found an order from China on Prince's laptop?

cloveringold85 said:

purplefam99 said:

disch said: Well if Kornfeld’s practice name “ recovery without walls” means anything then it might suggest that Prince wanted Or was more willing to do a detox plan in PP. He probably wouldn’t want to go to Hazelton where he could not control his environment or the possible privacy invasion. But if without walls means you can do it without confinement then he may have been aware that help was coming and the presence of illicitly made drugs still in house was a temptation and unregulated Mess that night.

.

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it.

.

From Recovery Without Walls website:

.

While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement.

he got the dr's son to fly to him. and the dr was coming on the 22nd. i don't think the standard rules about living on campus apply in this case. it would be like asking the/any president to go live on campus

for treatment. he was going to get the most outpatient he could get, which would be at PP. or none

at all IMO.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

I agree that sounds plausible Purple. He refused an in-patient program and perhaps agreed to even consider only an at-home program as offered by Dr K. I do think if he had wanted to be in an in-patient facility, he would have checked himself into one. I doubt the people around him were doing aything to prevent him from doing that.

.

Dr. Kornfeld treats people in their home?

he was coming on the 22nd sounds like a house call to me.

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it. From Recovery Without Walls website: While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement

Outpatient is noted (patients are lodged at a private residence or boutique hotel near the clinic). A patient is not contained at the facility as that would be categorized Inpatient (where one is admitted into the facility). Outpatient Rehab and Treatment Outpatient drug rehab is less restrictive than inpatient programs. Outpatient recovery programs usually require 10 to 12 hours a week spent visiting a local treatment center. These sessions focus on drug abuse education, individual and group counseling, and teaching addicted people how to cope without their drug. Outpatient drug rehab can be a good standalone option for someone with a mild addiction, or it can be part of a long-term treatment program. Sourced here - https://www.addictioncent...ent-rehab/

yes and if you are a famous person flying a dr. to your ultimate outpatient facility (PP) for

once a week maintainance is easy. and you can likely afford it. maybe Dr K, is not a great

dr but maybe he was the only one they got who agreed to fly out to PP to treat him in his own home.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

What I said in my Post #250:

.

I respect what you are saying. I'm not saying that Andrew & Dr. K. did not want to help Prince, but they did not follow the correct procedure, which raises a big red flag for me.

.

Personally-speaking; it does in fact matter to me if laws were broken because that shows ill-intent on Dr. Kornfeld and Andrew's part. Not only was it unethical and unprofessional what they did; it was also unlawful, and they knew this beforehand, so that makes it even worse, from where I see it.

.

Have you researched Dr. Kornfeld?recovery Without Walls? He has a terrible reputation and many of his patients said they almost died under his care. He loaded them up with dope and did not help them at all. You have to understand, we are talking about a facility that treats rocks stars and celebrities in Hollywood and they make millions of dollars, along with these pharmaceutical companies. There are some treatment centers do have a good reputation, but Recovery Without Walls is certainly not one of them.

.

You and I have mentioned this before. Dr. K does not have a good rep. It made me question Pheadra's judgement if she called this person for help. I am not so sure things would have worked out if Prince had gone with these people and know Andrew should not have been in PP with those drugs.

The whole thing is shady as hell.

.

This is why I have a hard time believing that Prince was on-board with this intervention.

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

From what I read about Recovery Without Walls is that you have to live on-campus. So, Prince would not have been able to have treatment at PP. No one can recover from addiction at home, unless Prince was going to have a team of addiction specialists at PP, 24/7, which I don't think is possible, and would not be private, as everyone would know about it. From Recovery Without Walls website: While Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic, when intensive treatment is advisable, patients are lodged in a comfortable private residence or a local boutique hotel near the clinic. Experienced Personal Recovery Assistants are utilized for up to 24-hour care for each individual patient and provide compassionate, nurturing attention and encouragement

Outpatient is noted (patients are lodged at a private residence or boutique hotel near the clinic). A patient is not contained at the facility as that would be categorized Inpatient (where one is admitted into the facility). Outpatient Rehab and Treatment Outpatient drug rehab is less restrictive than inpatient programs. Outpatient recovery programs usually require 10 to 12 hours a week spent visiting a local treatment center. These sessions focus on drug abuse education, individual and group counseling, and teaching addicted people how to cope without their drug. Outpatient drug rehab can be a good standalone option for someone with a mild addiction, or it can be part of a long-term treatment program. Sourced here - https://www.addictioncent...ent-rehab/

.

Yes, they are an Outpatient clinic; however, Prince would have needed "intensive treatment" with his addiction; therefore, he would have had to remain on-site with supervision, 24/7. I don't think Prince's case was a simple one, where he could just be treated at his home/PP. Do you think he would need simple treatment?