I think when Charles is referring to justice he means who ever gave Prince this bad stuff.

said:

rogifan said:

The key word is controlled. And I would imagine the number of people being given this drug in a controlled setting is small.

What? They give it in hospitals all the time, that's a controlled setting, they give it to you when you are in hospice, that's a controlled setting. Every single day lot's of people are getting this drug in a controlled setting. Drs even prescribe this drug in patch form for the seriously ill patients and patients in chronic pain who are still at home.

laurarichardson said:

--Patches have malfunctioned and killed people. In addition, people who shot it have died within 3 minutes I read an article about that as well. If he was abusing Fentenyl he would not have been sitting on some stage playing a piano. [Edited 9/28/17 13:42pm]

-Chaka went into rehab after P's death for her addiction to Fentanyl.

She was on stage every night performing prior to admitting her problem.

PennyPurple said:

Ok maybe more cancer patients are getting it than I think. Still from what I’ve read there has been a clamp down on use of this drug no doubt because of how potent it is. But again my point is it’s a controlled setting. And for people who have some kind of terminal illness and are in severe pain.

24 pills is not that many. It wouldn't be hard for P to hid that many illegal pills in a 65,000 foot square facility. Those might have been in his little black bag, but people might have just assumed that P's pills were the prescription ones. Do you all recall the bodyguard Chris Gaither who stated that he used to pack P's suitcase and how all he ever saw were vitamin pills and aspirin? Either he was playing dumb or didn't know the truth? Why wasn't he ever investigated?If he was, we have not heard anything about it. Besides, if KJ knew P had those pills and was involved in procuring them wouldn't he have wanted to get rid of them?? It is possible P usually got the milder variety but made the mistake at some point or another of procuring the scarier stuff. People talk about P having everything in control etc. He was human; they make mistakes especially when pain and addiction are involved. And if P was trying at one point to procure pills on his own, he might have not known what he was doing. This dude had trouble operating a stove or retweeting for god's sake.

.

PennyPurple said:

One pill with the “Watson 385” stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug. Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/n...-fentanyl/

purplerabbithole said:

Lidocaine was found in pills? We know that for sure? i thought it was found in his body.

Why would people poisoning him care if he experienced burning pain?

There are other possibilities other than murder however. Maybe, P had an old stash of fentanyl-in-disguise and Kirk at some point or another convinced him to take milder pain medicine. Maybe KJ thought P only had the milder stuff and was okay for one more night (due to the recent scare) only to find out that P had horded some fentanyl (and P knew what it was but didn't care or realize it would kill him and the other stuff was just too mild to help him ) and then P took it without anyone else's notice. The reason I am clearing KJ a bit here is that the paper trail to himself with milder pills makes no sense if he knew or was facilitating P in his acquisition of fentanyl in disguise. It makes no sense to incriminate oneself and it makes no sense for P to have those milder drugs on his person if the stronger pills did the trick.

Also, murderers would probably get rid of the evidence especially if they have their names on P's other pills. Murderers wouldn't revive him on a plane the week before. Murders wouldn't return to the scene of the crime.

[Edited 9/28/17 17:03pm]

You might want to read the search warrants.

The pills were found in vitamin bottles.

There were close to 100 pills found.

purplerabbithole said:

24 pills is not that many. It wouldn't be hard for P to hid that many illegal pills in a 65,000 foot square facility. Those might have been in his little black bag, but people might have just assumed that P's pills were the prescription ones. Do you all recall the bodyguard Chris Gaither who stated that he used to pack P's suitcase and how all he ever saw were vitamin pills and aspirin? Either he was playing dumb or didn't know the truth? Why wasn't he ever investigated?If he was, we have not heard anything about it. Besides, if KJ knew P had those pills and was involved in procuring them wouldn't he have wanted to get rid of them?? It is possible P usually got the milder variety but made the mistake at some point or another of procuring the scarier stuff. People talk about P having everything in control etc. He was human; they make mistakes especially when pain and addiction are involved. And if P was trying at one point to procure pills on his own, he might have not known what he was doing. This dude had trouble operating a stove or retweeting for god's sake.

.

PennyPurple said:

One pill with the “Watson 385” stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug. Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/n...-fentanyl/

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

rogifan said:

PennyPurple said:

What? They give it in hospitals all the time, that's a controlled setting, they give it to you when you are in hospice, that's a controlled setting. Every single day lot's of people are getting this drug in a controlled setting. Drs even prescribe this drug in patch form for the seriously ill patients and patients in chronic pain who are still at home.

Ok maybe more cancer patients are getting it than I think. Still from what I’ve read there has been a clamp down on use of this drug no doubt because of how potent it is. But again my point is it’s a controlled setting. And for people who have some kind of terminal illness and are in severe pain.

No, you said, " I would imagine the number of people being given this drug in a controlled setting is small"

It's not so small, it has widespread use.

There has been a clamp down on all Narcs. When made legally, and used legally, it's a good one to be able to have.

The problem comes when it is produced illegally and used illegally.

I was talking about the illegal pills not the prescribed ones under kirk's name. I assumed that the 24 pills were just the unprescribed ones and the rest were the KJ ones.

Considering I currently have 25 hydrocodone in my house from a minor surgery in June and I never take pain pills, 100 seems kind of low for a rock star with chronic pain?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

You might want to read the search warrants.

The pills were found in vitamin bottles.

There were close to 100 pills found.

purplerabbithole said:

24 pills is not that many. It wouldn't be hard for P to hid that many illegal pills in a 65,000 foot square facility. Those might have been in his little black bag, but people might have just assumed that P's pills were the prescription ones. Do you all recall the bodyguard Chris Gaither who stated that he used to pack P's suitcase and how all he ever saw were vitamin pills and aspirin? Either he was playing dumb or didn't know the truth? Why wasn't he ever investigated?If he was, we have not heard anything about it. Besides, if KJ knew P had those pills and was involved in procuring them wouldn't he have wanted to get rid of them?? It is possible P usually got the milder variety but made the mistake at some point or another of procuring the scarier stuff. People talk about P having everything in control etc. He was human; they make mistakes especially when pain and addiction are involved. And if P was trying at one point to procure pills on his own, he might have not known what he was doing. This dude had trouble operating a stove or retweeting for god's sake.

.

[Edited 9/28/17 19:49pm]

None of us know what happened entirely. Yourself included.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Yes, that is true, very effective in it's intended uses...however legal fentanyl is not what killed prince, it was a street brewed fentanyl analogue which is much more dangerous than fentanyl used in hospitals

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

Yes, that is true, very effective in it's intended uses...however legal fentanyl is not what killed prince, it was a street brewed fentanyl analogue which is much more dangerous than fentanyl used in hospitals

Exactly.

And people have died from fentanyl overdoses when they thought they were taking hydrocodone or percocet all over the country. Hundreds of them just in California in 2016. I doubt any of these folks were killed in a criminal conspiracy other than the callous methods of heartless drug traffickers/dealers.

PennyPurple said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: Yes, that is true, very effective in it's intended uses...however legal fentanyl is not what killed prince, it was a street brewed fentanyl analogue which is much more dangerous than fentanyl used in hospitals

Exactly.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

Yes, that is true, very effective in it's intended uses...however legal fentanyl is not what killed prince, it was a street brewed fentanyl analogue which is much more dangerous than fentanyl used in hospitals

Not questioning your expertise, LoveSymbol, for which everyone here should be grateful...but how do we know it was street F.?(I wonder why he didn't have pharmaceutical grade F,he could have afforded it.?.). ... are there different markers that show up on the tox panel? Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.

They were all illegal.

The search warrants show that KJ was not in the Minnesota Registry for having any controlled scripts prescribed for him within the last year.

purplerabbithole said:

I was talking about the illegal pills not the prescribed ones under kirk's name. I assumed that the 24 pills were just the unprescribed ones and the rest were the KJ ones.

Considering I currently have 25 hydrocodone in my house from a minor surgery in June and I never take pain pills, 100 seems kind of low for a rock star with chronic pain?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

You might want to read the search warrants.

The pills were found in vitamin bottles.

There were close to 100 pills found.

[Edited 9/28/17 19:49pm]

If you want to get caught up in semantics,fine. But there is certainly a difference between pills that would otherwise be legal if they wree procured legally and street pills that are counterfit and dangerously unreliable and never legal..

P had chronic pain. Who could watch someone go through constant pain and just deny them relief with no other alternatives. Its a complicated matter and a conundrum.. That being said, nothing excuses someone getting dangerous black market pills for someone who has a dependency.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

They were all illegal.

The search warrants show that KJ was not in the Minnesota Registry for having any controlled scripts prescribed for him within the last year.

purplerabbithole said:

I was talking about the illegal pills not the prescribed ones under kirk's name. I assumed that the 24 pills were just the unprescribed ones and the rest were the KJ ones.

Considering I currently have 25 hydrocodone in my house from a minor surgery in June and I never take pain pills, 100 seems kind of low for a rock star with chronic pain?

[Edited 9/28/17 19:49pm]

[Edited 9/28/17 20:04pm]

purplerabbithole said:

If you want to get caught up in semantics,fine. But there is certainly a difference between pills that would otherwise be legal if they wree procured legally and street pills that are counterfit and dangerously unreliable and never legal..

P had chronic pain. Who could watch someone go through constant pain and just deny them relief with no other alternatives. Its a complicated matter and a conundrum.. That being said, nothing excuses someone getting dangerous black market pills for someone who has a dependency.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

They were all illegal.

The search warrants show that KJ was not in the Minnesota Registry for having any controlled scripts prescribed for him within the last year.

[Edited 9/28/17 20:04pm]

That's the core LIE at the heart of this ridiculous exercise designed entirely to absolve Prince for any responsibility for his addiction: THERE WERE ALTERNATIVES AVAILABLE TO RELIEVE HIS PAIN other than self-medicating to the point of addiction and death.

Ever hear of going to the appropriate physician and having a hip replacement?

No, Prince had to be in control of his own 'pain relief program'...we can all see how well that turned out.

Huh?

It has nothing to do with semantics.

It has everything to do with truth v. rumor

purplerabbithole said:

If you want to get caught up in semantics,fine. But there is certainly a difference between pills that would otherwise be legal if they wree procured legally and street pills that are counterfit and dangerously unreliable and never legal..

P had chronic pain. Who could watch someone go through constant pain and just deny them relief with no other alternatives. Its a complicated matter and a conundrum.. That being said, nothing excuses someone getting dangerous black market pills for someone who has a dependency.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

They were all illegal.

The search warrants show that KJ was not in the Minnesota Registry for having any controlled scripts prescribed for him within the last year.

[Edited 9/28/17 20:04pm]

I was not talking about Prince's reasons or culpability. I was talking about the complicated emotions of other people watching him in pain. But since you went there...

Yes, he could have used other alternatives. But surgery isn't a cure all for everything and who knows?==maybe he was still buying into the JW stuff. Prince put his body through hell. There is no way his hips were the only problem. Have a heart where Prince is concerned for a change. Even if he should have made better decisions where his own health was concerned, he had an addiction and pain, and both suck. My grandmother had a pill addiction due to her back pain and I don't recall there being a surgery for that. She was a prudish woman who didn't even drink. I don't think she started popping pills just for shits and giggles.

BAck to the enablers....Watching anyone go through withdrawal and/or physical pain is not easy regardless of how and why those things started. Of course, those folks were probably also worried about their jobs but doesn't mean they callously wanted him dead or didn't give a shit. Enabling is a complicated thing especially when pain (regardless of why it started or why it continued) is involved.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

purplerabbithole said:

If you want to get caught up in semantics,fine. But there is certainly a difference between pills that would otherwise be legal if they wree procured legally and street pills that are counterfit and dangerously unreliable and never legal..

P had chronic pain. Who could watch someone go through constant pain and just deny them relief with no other alternatives. Its a complicated matter and a conundrum.. That being said, nothing excuses someone getting dangerous black market pills for someone who has a dependency.

[Edited 9/28/17 20:04pm]

That's the core LIE at the heart of this ridiculous exercise designed entirely to absolve Prince for any responsibility for his addiction: THERE WERE ALTERNATIVES AVAILABLE TO RELIEVE HIS PAIN other than self-medicating to the point of addiction and death.

Ever hear of going to the appropriate physician and having a hip replacement?

No, Prince had to be in control of his own 'pain relief program'...we can all see how well that turned out.

What rumors? The pain pills under Kurt's name were not the ones I was originally talking about and they aren't as bad as the ones that killed him.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Huh?

It has nothing to do with semantics.

It has everything to do with truth v. rumor

purplerabbithole said:

If you want to get caught up in semantics,fine. But there is certainly a difference between pills that would otherwise be legal if they wree procured legally and street pills that are counterfit and dangerously unreliable and never legal..

P had chronic pain. Who could watch someone go through constant pain and just deny them relief with no other alternatives. Its a complicated matter and a conundrum.. That being said, nothing excuses someone getting dangerous black market pills for someone who has a dependency.

[Edited 9/28/17 20:04pm]

There were NO pain pills under Kirk's name.

purplerabbithole said:

What rumors? The pain pills under Kurt's name were not the ones I was originally talking about and they aren't as bad as the ones that killed him.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Huh?

It has nothing to do with semantics.

It has everything to do with truth v. rumor

I am confused. What the hell were the pills. They weren't all fentanyl laced cocktail street drugs.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

There were NO pain pills under Kirk's name.

purplerabbithole said:

What rumors? The pain pills under Kurt's name were not the ones I was originally talking about and they aren't as bad as the ones that killed him.

[Edited 9/28/17 20:53pm]

LMFAO there is nothing in the search warrant stating opiates were prescribed under Kirk's name.

purplerabbithole said:

The search warrants are not rumors.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

There were NO pain pills under Kirk's name.

I changed the question. What drugs did Prince have in his possession then?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

LMFAO there is nothing in the search warrant stating opiates were prescribed under Kirk's name.

purplerabbithole said:

The search warrants are not rumors.

chucktown1 said:

.
CO-SIGN.
It's not all that complicated.
.
He was prescribed opioids, got cut off or found it easier to get them through alternate means. He didn't realize that it was cheaper for the black market to load the pills with fentanyl.
One aeticle said only a few pills tested for that.
Gulping 4-6 of what he thought was hydro would be the massive overdose
He had pills "on him" when found. Not just in him. He had grabbed them from somewhere.
Were they handed to him on 4/20?
.

There was Oxycodone prescribed under Kirk's name on April 14, 2016.

Please refer to 1st search warrant of Sept. 19, page I-3 of the Application, 3rd paragraph.

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...dex-19.pdf

unless I can't see anymore cause it's too late. Going to bed. lol

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

LMFAO there is nothing in the search warrant stating opiates were prescribed under Kirk's name.

So let me get this right.So kurt did pick up oxycodone for Prince on April 14, 2016--the morning before his first overdose -- but he had no other medicine prescribed under his name within the year. But some of the bottles of other "medicine" were labeled as Kurt's drugs but contained street drugs that Prince somehow procured. The stuff they were picking up at the Walgreens (under whose prescription were those?)

So, at some point before mid 2015 and before Prince purchased the street drugs, Kurt was buying drugs under his name. By 2016, P was using those bottles to store his other drugs. If Kurt knew Prince was doing this, why didn't he get rid of the bottles after Prince died ? If Kirk knew Prince had that kind of stash on him, why did he even need to pick up oxycodone on April 14th--why would he need it? Maybe he didn't know entirely what was going on with Prince? And Prince had some point wore him down until he purchase that oxy. because his secret stash had been left at home. Kurt obviously knew that the oxycotin he had given Prince earlier on the 14th was the culprit in his first overdose. They went back to Paisley after narcon had wiped him clear. While Kurt looked for a pain/drug treatment and was leaving around pamphlets, Prince started withdrawal symptoms and was feeling pretty shitty (thus the reason Kurt was helping him get anti-anxiety medicine at the Walgreens.) Kurt could have took him home on the 20th thinking all he had was anti-anxiety pills and stuff he had gotten from the pharmacy.

Maybe, Kurt knew Prince had an off-and-on again drug problem--thus the reason he stopped letting him use his scribes, but didn't know how or where he had gotten the later drugs or the full extent of them. He must have buckled on April 14th. Or maybe Kurt knew somethimg about the hidden pills but didn't know where P was keeping them or the severity of them but assumed that P would not take any that night due to Prince's insisting on the anti-anxiety and nausea pills and the recent scare. Or maybe he was just an idiot (like P apparently) who thought oxycodone was no different that the shit P or whoever had purchased online and Kirk was just going along with whatever P told him even if he incriminates himself in the process.. I hope its not the later.

2004Fan said:

There was Oxycodone prescribed under Kirk's name on April 14, 2016.

Please refer to 1st search warrant of Sept. 19, page I-3 of the Application, 3rd paragraph.

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...dex-19.pdf

unless I can't see anymore cause it's too late. Going to bed. lol

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

LMFAO there is nothing in the search warrant stating opiates were prescribed under Kirk's name.

[Edited 9/29/17 4:13am]

[Edited 9/29/17 4:23am]

2004Fan said:

There was Oxycodone prescribed under Kirk's name on April 14, 2016.

Please refer to 1st search warrant of Sept. 19, page I-3 of the Application, 3rd paragraph.

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...dex-19.pdf

unless I can't see anymore cause it's too late. Going to bed. lol

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

LMFAO there is nothing in the search warrant stating opiates were prescribed under Kirk's name.

Dr. S also put out press release saying he never wrote Rxs for pain meds for Prince.

Why does everyone pretend this did not happen and was not mentioned in the media? Kirk was not cooperative with the police and actually went on a vacation the day Prince died.

Jill Jones even said he lied right to her face after the search warrent came out.

No one lies if they nothing to hide. See statement from Dr. S lawyer note that Dr. S is still practicing medience with no restriction on his license.

http://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-doctor-denies-prescribing-opioids-to-prince

Statement from Dr. Schulenberg's lawyer

"Dr. Schulenberg has been and remains committed to providing full transparency regarding his practice as it relates to the Prince investigation. Dr. Schulenberg has previously disclosed all information regarding his care and treatment of Prince to his former employer, law enforcement authorities and regulatory authorities in the course of his complete cooperation with the investigation of Prince’s death. There are no restrictions on Dr. Schulenberg’s medical license, and contrary to headlines and media reports published in the wake of today’s unsealing of search warrants relating to the investigation, Dr. Schulenberg never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.

According to the Dr. S that oxycodone was for Kirk not Prince.

purplerabbithole said:

So let me get this right.So kurt did pick up oxycodone for Prince on April 14, 2016--the morning before his first overdose -- but he had no other medicine prescribed under his name within the year. But some of the bottles of other "medicine" were labeled as Kurt's drugs but contained street drugs that Prince somehow procured. The stuff they were picking up at the Walgreens (under whose prescription were those?)

So, at some point before mid 2015 and before Prince purchased the street drugs, Kurt was buying drugs under his name. By 2016, P was using those bottles to store his other drugs. If Kurt knew Prince was doing this, why didn't he get rid of the bottles after Prince died ? If Kirk knew Prince had that kind of stash on him, why did he even need to pick up oxycodone on April 14th--why would he need it? Maybe he didn't know entirely what was going on with Prince? And Prince had some point wore him down until he purchase that oxy. because his secret stash had been left at home. Kurt obviously knew that the oxycotin he had given Prince earlier on the 14th was the culprit in his first overdose. They went back to Paisley after narcon had wiped him clear. While Kurt looked for a pain/drug treatment and was leaving around pamphlets, Prince started withdrawal symptoms and was feeling pretty shitty (thus the reason Kurt was helping him get anti-anxiety medicine at the Walgreens.) Kurt could have took him home on the 20th thinking all he had was anti-anxiety pills and stuff he had gotten from the pharmacy.

Maybe, Kurt knew Prince had an off-and-on again drug problem--thus the reason he stopped letting him use his scribes, but didn't know how or where he had gotten the later drugs or the full extent of them. He must have buckled on April 14th. Or maybe Kurt knew somethimg about the hidden pills but didn't know where P was keeping them or the severity of them but assumed that P would not take any that night due to Prince's insisting on the anti-anxiety and nausea pills and the recent scare. Or maybe he was just an idiot (like P apparently) who thought oxycodone was no different that the shit P or whoever had purchased online and Kirk was just going along with whatever P told him even if he incriminates himself in the process.. I hope its not the later.

2004Fan said:

There was Oxycodone prescribed under Kirk's name on April 14, 2016.

Please refer to 1st search warrant of Sept. 19, page I-3 of the Application, 3rd paragraph.

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...dex-19.pdf

unless I can't see anymore cause it's too late. Going to bed. lol

[Edited 9/29/17 4:13am]

[Edited 9/29/17 4:23am]

purplerabbithole said:

I changed the question. What drugs did Prince have in his possession then?

Read the link that I gave you, several posts up.

[Edited 9/29/17 4:30am]