that's a great point, i thought they had to at least be exaggerated and/or Prince was very strict with his work boundaries (which we know is true because he wouldn't take calls from Mayte). His father taught him that women were a distraction for a musician and I'm sure he knew this firsthand. His dad supposedly called Jill Jones "Delilah" because Prince would hang out and watch movies with her. It must have been somewhat playful because Jill loved John Nelson.

purplerabbithole said:

I didn't say he wasn't at least half the time a man whore. I said it wasn't every waking minute of his life or as much when he was older. Why is that such a naive notion. Is Susan Rogers yet another person you don't believe-- when she said stories about his womanizing were exagerrated because he was usually too busy working. I guess women who enjoy their reps as side pieces (nice way of putting it, I know) like Robin are easier to believe.

Warren Beatty (the ultimate man whore) settled down.

laurarichardson said:

Because he was a man whore and you spend too much time trying to psycho analze it all. He did what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it and he knew exactly what he was doing. As women will spend too much time trying to figure this stuff out when men are good at letting us know exactly what they are about usually from the getty up. We just do not want to see it and you do not want to see it despite the evidence being overwhelming.

Did you not read some of the things Vanity's brother-law said about Prince bringing Vanity too his hometown and she finding out Kim was hanging at his house? Did you not hear what Jill Jones said about finding out about Susan when got to town? Or Prince going into his bedroom with Susan and her look alike sister right infront of Vanity's face? Or years later when Vanity hooked back up with him but left because Kim Bassinger kept calling. Or Robyn Power discussing the two of them doing the do while Kim was knocking on the front door and he made her hide in a closet.

Do you realize the entire page of this post could bea filled with these stories over and over again?. It was not Aspergers or Bi-Polar disorder that was making him be a manwhore.

[Edited 9/24/17 17:23pm]

[Edited 9/24/17 19:43pm]

We have every indication ( from Mayte ) that he ran around on her. Mikki White said while he was dating M2 he was flying other women into Paisley Park. He was already seeing other women before he got married. Some orgers have got to stop not seeing what is obvious.

He focused on his work and put women second ( not really taking the time to have good long relationships ) because the work came first. It is unfortuantly the perfect enviromment and set up for being a man ho. He may not have set out to be a man ho but if you put your work first and do not take the time to develop a relationship what do you think is going to happen?

This type of stuff is also a part of the Rock n Roll lifestyle. You should listen to some of the stuff Andre Cymone has said about how they were when they got out on the road and away from Minneapolis.

PeteSilas said:

that's a great point, i thought they had to at least be exaggerated and/or Prince was very strict with his work boundaries (which we know is true because he wouldn't take calls from Mayte). His father taught him that women were a distraction for a musician and I'm sure he knew this firsthand. His dad supposedly called Jill Jones "Delilah" because Prince would hang out and watch movies with her. It must have been somewhat playful because Jill loved John Nelson.

purplerabbithole said:

I didn't say he wasn't at least half the time a man whore. I said it wasn't every waking minute of his life or as much when he was older. Why is that such a naive notion. Is Susan Rogers yet another person you don't believe-- when she said stories about his womanizing were exagerrated because he was usually too busy working. I guess women who enjoy their reps as side pieces (nice way of putting it, I know) like Robin are easier to believe.

Warren Beatty (the ultimate man whore) settled down.

[Edited 9/24/17 19:43pm]

[Edited 9/25/17 4:20am]

PeteSilas said:

he lived the rockstar life which for a man generally means playing the field for as long as you can. Only exceptions i know of are Bruce Springsteen who seemed to not go overboard with the womanizing and gay guys like Little Richard, who, was actually bisexual and his closest lover, Lee Angel said had a psychic connection with, she used to say she'd scream at him if he thought of other women. One time she got pissed because Richard had a thought of burning Lee with something. Anyway, most of the rockers are horrible womanizers, underage virtual pederasts, most of them.

Thank you for your realism.

PeteSilas said:

laurarichardson said:

We have every indication ( from Mayte ) that he ran around on her. Mikki White said while he was dating M2 he was flying other women into Paisley Park. He was already seeing other women before he got married. Some orgers have got to stop not seeing what is obvious.

He focused on his work and put women second ( not really taking the time to have good long relationships ) because the work came first. It is unfortuantly the perfect enviromment and set up for being a man ho. He may not have set out to be a man ho but if you put your work first and do not take the time to develop a relationship what do you think is going to happen?

This type of stuff is also a part of the Rock n Roll lifestyle. You should listen to some of the stuff Andre Cymone has said about how they were when they got out on the road and away from Minneapolis.

PeteSilas said:

that's a great point, i thought they had to at least be exaggerated and/or Prince was very strict with his work boundaries (which we know is true because he wouldn't take calls from Mayte). His father taught him that women were a distraction for a musician and I'm sure he knew this firsthand. His dad supposedly called Jill Jones "Delilah" because Prince would hang out and watch movies with her. It must have been somewhat playful because Jill loved John Nelson.

[Edited 9/25/17 4:20am]

co-sign, ...and it's actually quite sad. Waking up most of the days of your life lying next to someone you don't care if you ever see again; having intense sexual experiences with strangers; having a woman in your life you think you can love and care about deeply..and throwing that relationship over for a mindless fuck with a stranger passing through your life., allowing yourself to be caught up in others' fantasies of fame/power (m2) and exploitation (the ones who balled him for what he could do for them) ..Ultimately: Rx for depression, loneliness, dying without the sustained intimacy that makes life so rich and meaningful.

[Edited 9/25/17 6:55am]

said:

purplerabbithole said:

Damn, Laura, why do you so consistently make him out to be the world's biggest man whore? LOL.

He probably had those double standards because he knows that the women will get benefits from associations with him and expected loyalty in exchange... He might have figured that since women supposedly can't divorce sex from emotions like men can, a female's betrayal is a more emotional/personal one etc. I am not saying those notions are fair or correct, but we don't know if his views evolved or changed where those notions were concerned. His post Mayte relationships are a bit hazy and unclear. We really don't have any proof or even public statements from lovers claiming he cheated--other than that Mikki White (who he didn't date) and a few assumptions due to proteges he seemed tight with. People might say once a dog always a dog, but Prince didn't used to worry about cussing and probably didn't pop pills constantly back in the day either. He also didn't discourage female bandmates from showing too much skin while employing their husbands at PP in the 80's and 90's unlike the 3rdeyegirl 2000's period. He also in the 80's didn't 'date' a JW who used to post on facebook her belief in celibacy. People change--sometimes for the best; sometimes for the worse. I know you are going to say I am naive but having casual flirtations with women/public proteges doesn't alway constitute man-whoring.

Don't forget as well, women typically don't...

• ask men out
• pay for drinks
• organise dates
• initiate sex
• take responsibility for romance (whether it goes well or badly)
• buy romantic gifts for their partner (least not to the same extent)

What do you mean, I'm not chivalrous? Whatever, all of Prince's sins around women can be forgiven!

I think we're talking about a guy that lived a great part of his relationships through his songs.

What I mean by that is that he probably spent more time talking to his partners
through his songs than in real life. Or, at least, songs were the place for him where he could truly open up,
but I can figure the woman getting fed up after some time, and going: "This is all very pretty, but what about reality?".

And what about reality? How in hell can a life partner fit in this pace of living, no matter how hot or extraordinary you are?
It's already hard for someone famous to get normal relationships, but at least they take these things
called "pauses" or "vacations", which give a chance for real intimacy to grow.

It's pretty simple when you look at it.
Jill Jones was a fellow musician. So was Sheila E.
Vanity as well. Apollonia was cast.
Susannah just happened to be Wendy's sister, and I still wonder how you can spend hours
working with Wendy and then banging Susannah without having bizarre feelings about it.
Kim Basinger was brought in by Batman.
Mayte was introduced by her mother.
Manuela was working at Paisley Park.

It's hard to find a relationship that required a real effort from Prince to get into it.
With the Bambi eyes, the pose, the mystic, Prince adopts more of a seducee position than a seductor one.

We're talking about a guy that made the sound engineers leave the room
before singing. If he had this kind of intimacy problems with his job,
imagine his private life. A private life with very short time spans to grow.

Prince used his songs as escapisms from the real-life struggles that are part of any relationship.
Not that he personnally had the time to experience and know them.
He just was traumatized, like most of divorcee's children, by a particular depiction of how a couple works.
Or rather, doesn't. It boils down to: couple equals doom.
This is so stressful, that sex is welcomed as a great pacifier, which it is. And isn't.

He most probably was a good lover, if only from his unstoppable self-confidence.
But my guess is, he's been more of an "Electric Man" on stage than in real life.
He never took the time. Intimacy scared the shit out of him, for most of his life.

[Edited 9/25/17 8:39am]

bonatoc said:

I think we're talking about a guy that lived a great part of his relationships through his songs.

What I mean by that is that he probably spent more time talking to his partners
through his songs than in real life. Or, at least, songs were the place for him where he could truly open up,
but I can figure the woman getting fed up after some time, and going: "This is all very pretty, but what about reality?".

And what about reality? How in hell can a life partner fit in this pace of living, no matter how hot or extraordinary you are?
It's already hard for someone famous to get normal relationships, but at least they take these things
called "pauses" or "vacations", which give a chance for real intimacy to grow.

It's pretty simple when you look at it.
Jill Jones was a fellow musician. So was Sheila E.
Vanity as well. Apollonia was cast.
Susannah just happened to be Wendy's sister, and I still wonder how you can spend hours
working with Wendy and then banging Susannah without having bizarre feelings about it.
Kim Basinger was brought in by Batman.
Mayte was introduced by her mother.
Manuela was working at Paisley Park.

It's hard to find a relationship that required a real effort from Prince to get into it.
With the Bambi eyes, the pose, the mystic, Prince adopts more of a seducee position than a seductor one.

We're talking about a guy that made the sound engineers leave the room
before singing. If he had this kind of intimacy problems with his job,
imagine his private life. A private life with very short time spans to grow.

Prince used his songs as escapisms from the real-life struggles that are part of any relationship.
Not that he personnally had the time to experience and know them.
He just was traumatized, like most of divorcee's children, by a particular depiction of how a couple works.
Or rather, doesn't. It boils down to: couple equals doom.
This is so stressful, that sex is welcomed as a great pacifier, which it is. And isn't.

He most probably was a good lover, if only from his unstoppable self-confidence.
But my guess is, he's been more of an "Electric Man" on stage than in real life.
He never took the time. Intimacy scared the shit out of him, for most of his life.

[Edited 9/25/17 8:39am]

co-sign:..the myth of Prince as a great, all knowing, all feeling, all everything lover was bigger than the reality....deep love takes time...and Prince's interests were elsewhere. He never really gave LOVE the sustained attention it needs to become real and enduring.

bonatoc said:

bonatoc said:

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

Your right we can't exactly say, but I think private meant other people who weren't known that were plucked from obscurity, not necessarily deeper or more connected relationships. But again who knows.

When Jill said private she was talking about him keeping some of his women a way from the media and fans. The public knows very little about Kim Upshur and knew nothing of Mi Ling Stone. We do not know the depth of these relationship.

they also weren't performers though either were they, what would they want with the limelight. I'm still a bit surprised by how manuela has stayed out of the limelight, kind of unusual, most people love it. so, at least in that way, she's not exploitive.

PeteSilas said:

if he kept certain relationships away from the public..they mustve been exceptionally hurtful or bad

Not necessarily. The person involved might not have been in the business at all and didn't want to be bothered with all the commotion that would surely come with public exposure. I'm sure he had those kind of relationships, in Europe namely.

luvsexy4all said:

if he kept certain relationships away from the public..they mustve been exceptionally hurtful or bad

Exactly, dated that lady that was on the front of the Madhouse album and the public knew nothing about her until years later. She wanted to learn the music business and he got her a job at WB in the business office.

2004Fan said:

Not necessarily. The person involved might not have been in the business at all and didn't want to be bothered with all the commotion that would surely come with public exposure. I'm sure he had those kind of relationships, in Europe namely.

luvsexy4all said:

if he kept certain relationships away from the public..they mustve been exceptionally hurtful or bad

Maybe that is why Prince ocassionally shows love toward those at WB even why railing about the inherent corruption of record companies...LOL>

laurarichardson said:

Exactly, dated that lady that was on the front of the Madhouse album and the public knew nothing about her until years later. She wanted to learn the music business and he got her a job at WB in the business office.

2004Fan said:

Not necessarily. The person involved might not have been in the business at all and didn't want to be bothered with all the commotion that would surely come with public exposure. I'm sure he had those kind of relationships, in Europe namely.

He had issues with a few people at WB but he said later he did not hate anyone it was just time to move on. I thought later he explained the stituation better not so much at first.

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe that is why Prince ocassionally shows love toward those at WB even why railing about the inherent corruption of record companies...LOL>

laurarichardson said:

Exactly, dated that lady that was on the front of the Madhouse album and the public knew nothing about her until years later. She wanted to learn the music business and he got her a job at WB in the business office.

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

Beautifully stated. I have been thinking about the heartless stigma of addiction lately. I know people who are addicted to food (myself to some degree), people/kids who take medication for mood or emotional disorders, people who can't sleep without sleeping pills (my mom--she is also on anti-anxiety medication), , people who get drunk almost every weekend on beer, people addicted the internet, etc. My 80 year old grandmother (who was a very religious prudish woman who never cursed or watched rated R movies) years ago became addicted to oxycotin when her back pain was out of control and her doctor and my mom had to wing her off it.

But a rock star dies of a drug overdose, and he is a "JUNKIE" and had it coming. He is just some self-indulgent, spoiled hedonist, according to the same people popping a sleeping pill every night and putting their kids on ritalin . Rock stars have more stress, pain, and temptation so it stands to reason that the drugs will be more available and in some cases more tempting.But the fact they did more often does not make them worse than the rest of us.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

purplerabbithole said:

Beautifully stated. I have been thinking about the heartless stigma of addiction lately. I know people who are addicted to food (myself to some degree), people/kids who take medication for mood or emotional disorders, people who can't sleep without sleeping pills (my mom--she is also on anti-anxiety medication), , people who get drunk almost every weekend on beer, people addicted the internet, etc. My 80 year old grandmother (who was a very religious prudish woman who never cursed or watched rated R movies) years ago became addicted to oxycotin when her back pain was out of control and her doctor and my mom had to wing her off it.

But a rock star dies of a drug overdose, and he is a "JUNKIE" and had it coming. He is just some self-indulgent, spoiled hedonist, according to the same people popping a sleeping pill every night and putting their kids on ritalin . Rock stars have more stress, pain, and temptation so it stands to reason that the drugs will be more available and in some cases more tempting.But the fact they did more often does not make them worse than the rest of us.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

Welcome back, Bro, missed you and your voice of experience, reason and compassion.

i'm not arguing, just stating my opinion that he committed suicide, i don't think the staged looking place where he did it (elevator) was a coincidence and I don't think the od the previous week was coincidence. Lots of fans just want to play dumb, and that's fine for them, but that's not the way I want to see things. The fans that go "well, it was his business" fine, the fans that want to say "simple od" fine but I still think there is more to come down the pike and we should be preprared. It's not just the drugs, it's the suppossed depression he must have been in, it's intriguing how he covered that up, severe depression can cripple many people, like springsteen described it, sleeping 14 hours a day, not wanting to move etc.., Prince never did that and he sounded in fine spirits, aside from a few things he hinted at, during his last show. That's what makes me think it might have been a logical more than emotional decision to leave, some people do that you know. I lost a friend who could have been around longer had he opted for surgery, he just didn't want it, and he told me before "i'm ready to go" and it had nothing to do with depression or any of that.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

Suicide is a real possiblity and he may have nothing to do with addiction. Not happy or other health issues. Just decided he did not want to be around anymore. I do not believe in coincedences either it so happens the combo of drugs that killed him is now being used in Nevada as a death penalty drug.

PeteSilas said:

i'm not arguing, just stating my opinion that he committed suicide, i don't think the staged looking place where he did it (elevator) was a coincidence and I don't think the od the previous week was coincidence. Lots of fans just want to play dumb, and that's fine for them, but that's not the way I want to see things. The fans that go "well, it was his business" fine, the fans that want to say "simple od" fine but I still think there is more to come down the pike and we should be preprared. It's not just the drugs, it's the suppossed depression he must have been in, it's intriguing how he covered that up, severe depression can cripple many people, like springsteen described it, sleeping 14 hours a day, not wanting to move etc.., Prince never did that and he sounded in fine spirits, aside from a few things he hinted at, during his last show. That's what makes me think it might have been a logical more than emotional decision to leave, some people do that you know. I lost a friend who could have been around longer had he opted for surgery, he just didn't want it, and he told me before "i'm ready to go" and it had nothing to do with depression or any of that.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

One more time. If Prince were using these drugs without an Rx and continued to take them with the same dosage he would not have appeared to be high to anyone. Too many people who looked him in the face for many years are telling us he was not high. They cannot all be telling tall tales and trust me some tabloid has offered a lot of money to hear some drugged out stories. Over a year and a half later we have not heard one story.

--

I do not believe that Prince was abusing these drugs until the last months of his life. Just based on what we know and what we have seen. My thoughts are that he took those pills on purpose and killed himself or the following occured.

-------

1) I think for a long time he was taking pills without an Rx and managing them well but something happened back in January of 2016. Started taking too many or had some other health issues or just increased pain that made him hooked. (Whatever caused a change in his behavior with these meds we will never know)

2) I think he O.D on that plane because someone screwed up his pills then. He told the Atlanta promoter that he was going back to his doctor because he still was not feeling well and to hold off on announcing additional shows. I do not believe he would have mentioned this to her or to Adrien Cructchfield by phone a few days before if he knew he was just sick from addiction or had the same old joint pain.

3) I do not believe the man who had his underwear custom made was buying drugs from a random person on a street corner. I believe that someone in his inner circle was involved screwed up or maybe did it on purpose ( the combo that killed Prince is now used as a death penalty drug in Nevada. What are the chances ? ) and is going to get away with it because Prince did not have one good friend who wants to see justice done or the person responsible is the only person who knows what was going on.

It is not about some conspiracy. People do stupid stuff or mean shit everyday because they can.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

[Edited 9/28/17 6:03am]

laurarichardson said:

One more time. If Prince were using these drugs without an Rx and continued to take them with the same dosage he would not have appeared to be high to anyone. Too many people who looked him in the face for many years are telling us he was not high. They cannot all be telling tall tales and trust me some tabloid has offered a lot of money to hear some drugged out stories. Over a year and a half later we have not heard one story.

--

I do not believe that Prince was abusing these drugs until the last months of his life. Just based on what we know and what we have seen. My thoughts are that he took those pills on purpose and killed himself or the following occured.

-------

1) I think for a long time he was taking pills without an Rx and managing them well but something happened back in January of 2016. Started taking too many or had some other health issues or just increased pain that made him hooked. (Whatever caused a change in his behavior with these meds we will never know)

2) I think he O.D on that plane because someone screwed up his pills then. He told the Atlanta promoter that he was going back to his doctor because he still was not feeling well and to hold off on announcing additional shows. I do not believe he would have mentioned this to her or to Adrien Cructchfield by phone a few days before if he knew he was just sick from addiction or had the same old joint pain.

3) I do not believe the man who had his underwear custom made was buying drugs from a random person on a street corner. I believe that someone in his inner circle was involved screwed up or maybe did it on purpose ( the combo that killed Prince is now used as a death penalty drug in Nevada. What are the chances ? ) and is going to get away with it because Prince did not have one good friend who wants to see justice done or the person responsible is the only person who knows what was going on.

It is not about some conspiracy. People do stupid stuff or mean shit everyday because they can.

herb4 said:

I'll confess up front to not reading the thread.

A. Because I already know the arguments and the back and forth amongst the usual suspects

B. I don't have the time and

C. it's all been said.

But listen: As a chronic pain sufferer (arthritis in my hip and a bulging disc in my spine), a taker of pain killers and a recovering addict, I can tell you a few things, from both first as well as second hand experience:

- Chronic back or hip pain or anything relating to the CNS is no joke and the pain is quite real and opioid painkillers DO help. More than accupuncture, chiropractors, massage, physical therapy, cortisone injections, etc. At my worst, I could barely walk, my leg involuntarily bubbled like a David Cronenberg movie and sleep was impossible.

- I can't emphasize this enough: people who take these medicines AS PRESCRIBED are, for the most part, entirely functional and are not reduced to drooling incompetent retards, as has been so often posited by certain "experts". I promise you that ANYONE and EVERYONE here knows someone taking the same meds that Prince was prescribed. I flat out guarantee it. And, NO, the effects are not obvious. Prince using these medications in moderation would in NO WAY affect his productivity. They may have actually aided it since they redcue anxiety in some people.

It's not black and white. Junkies and straights. Functional and disfuntional. Addiction and pain cut across all social boundaries and the nature of both creeps up on you. Prince wasn't poisoned or clandestinley rubbed out. His problem escalated and he caught a "hot pill", most likely becasue of the way he operated in abject privacy and the manner in which he went about tending to his needs in his own way and by his own rules.

The fact that he was an addict, which seems very likely, in no way tarnishes his legacy, his talent or what he gave to us and shame on anyone who suggests as much. Some of my favorite artists and people were addicts (Hemmingway, Hunter Thompson, William Burroughs, Miles Davis, Stephen King, Carrie Fishser, George Carlin, Clapton, George Clinton, Bosch, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page...)

[Edited 9/28/17 6:03am]

Hey, LR, you plagerized my line about how he was a man who had his underwear made to spec...Ill let it go this time. The best observation is that sometimes people do mean, hurtful crazy things...because they can.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

One more time. If Prince were using these drugs without an Rx and continued to take them with the same dosage he would not have appeared to be high to anyone. Too many people who looked him in the face for many years are telling us he was not high. They cannot all be telling tall tales and trust me some tabloid has offered a lot of money to hear some drugged out stories. Over a year and a half later we have not heard one story.

--

I do not believe that Prince was abusing these drugs until the last months of his life. Just based on what we know and what we have seen. My thoughts are that he took those pills on purpose and killed himself or the following occured.

-------

1) I think for a long time he was taking pills without an Rx and managing them well but something happened back in January of 2016. Started taking too many or had some other health issues or just increased pain that made him hooked. (Whatever caused a change in his behavior with these meds we will never know)

2) I think he O.D on that plane because someone screwed up his pills then. He told the Atlanta promoter that he was going back to his doctor because he still was not feeling well and to hold off on announcing additional shows. I do not believe he would have mentioned this to her or to Adrien Cructchfield by phone a few days before if he knew he was just sick from addiction or had the same old joint pain.

3) I do not believe the man who had his underwear custom made was buying drugs from a random person on a street corner. I believe that someone in his inner circle was involved screwed up or maybe did it on purpose ( the combo that killed Prince is now used as a death penalty drug in Nevada. What are the chances ? ) and is going to get away with it because Prince did not have one good friend who wants to see justice done or the person responsible is the only person who knows what was going on.

It is not about some conspiracy. People do stupid stuff or mean shit everyday because they can.

[Edited 9/28/17 6:03am]

Hey, LR, you plagerized my line about how he was a man who had his underwear made to spec...Ill let it go this time. The best observation is that sometimes people do mean, hurtful crazy things...because they can.

I am sorry for plagerizing but the truth is a man that would have his underware custom made is not going to grab dope from any old person off the street corner. He was very particular and if he had been taking these drugs off the books for a while and managing it would have been someone he was comfortable with. It just makes sense to me. I also see too many people in his circle who had no trouble stepping up into his shoes, recording studio and music easily and quickly. Never underestimate jelousy and what it can make people do.

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Hey, LR, you plagerized my line about how he was a man who had his underwear made to spec...Ill let it go this time. The best observation is that sometimes people do mean, hurtful crazy things...because they can.

I am sorry for plagerizing but the truth is a man that would have his underware custom made is not going to grab dope from any old person off the street corner. He was very particular and if he had been taking these drugs off the books for a while and managing it would have been someone he was comfortable with. It just makes sense to me. I also see too many people in his circle who had no trouble stepping up into his shoes, recording studio and music easily and quickly. Never underestimate jelousy and what it can make people do.

I agree totally and that's why for months I have been reminding people that EVERYTHING in his life was made to order or carefully chosen/curated by him.INCLUDING HIS DRUGS. HE KNEW HIS DRUGS, HE KNEW WHAT HE LIKED AND WANTED AND NEEDED AND HE HAD THE MONEY AND KNOW HOW TO GET WHATEVER HE WANTED. His drug use was not random, it was something he CAREFULLY CONTROLLED like everything else in his life. And I believe he orchestrated and controlled the final scene.

Re JEALOUSY...I think that's something that should be explored more here. There are people in his 'inner circle' (hate that phrase) who deeply resented his controlling ways, his power and money and talent and they were just fine with his slo-mo suicide, his spiral down, the bones sticking out of his body and the adam's apple in grotesque relief...as long as the checks didn't bounce...they didn't give a rats' ass what he did to himself...and some, in his family, were just over him and everything that he was and they were not... they wanted him gone...and they wanted his money.

Get real, the homo sapien is the worlds' most dangerous animal..

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

I am sorry for plagerizing but the truth is a man that would have his underware custom made is not going to grab dope from any old person off the street corner. He was very particular and if he had been taking these drugs off the books for a while and managing it would have been someone he was comfortable with. It just makes sense to me. I also see too many people in his circle who had no trouble stepping up into his shoes, recording studio and music easily and quickly. Never underestimate jelousy and what it can make people do.

I agree totally and that's why for months I have been reminding people that EVERYTHING in his life was made to order or carefully chosen/curated by him.INCLUDING HIS DRUGS. HE KNEW HIS DRUGS, HE KNEW WHAT HE LIKED AND WANTED AND NEEDED AND HE HAD THE MONEY AND KNOW HOW TO GET WHATEVER HE WANTED. His drug use was not random, it was something he CAREFULLY CONTROLLED like everything else in his life. And I believe he orchestrated and controlled the final scene.

Re JEALOUSY...I think that's something that should be explored more here. There are people in his 'inner circle' (hate that phrase) who deeply resented his controlling ways, his power and money and talent and they were just fine with his slo-mo suicide, his spiral down, the bones sticking out of his body and the adam's apple in grotesque relief...as long as the checks didn't bounce...they didn't give a rats' ass what he did to himself...and some, in his family, were just over him and everything that he was and they were not... they wanted him gone...and they wanted his money.

Get real, the homo sapien is the worlds' most dangerous animal..

Co-sign Someone gets the ugly truth of it all.

The only person who has said they suspect something foul in the public is his cousin Charles ( who said his cousin would never have all his clothes inside out) and Adrian Crutchfield althought he is now in this stupid cover band so who knows how he feels now.