ThatWhiteDude said:

Menes said:

When you write that it is similar to MJ's case? What do you mean?

Prince's doctor left his job after Prince's death, claiming he didn't prescribe him Pain Killers. That is as suspisous as Murray running away after MJ was deceased.

Leaving your job because of such a high level of scrutiny, does not equate to involuntary manslaughter regardless of how suspicious it appears to you. There is no evidence that if the doctor prescribed pain killers for Prince ,it was those that killed him. Until he's convicted, there is no reason to link him to Prince's death.

We do know that Murray has been convicted in the death of MJ.

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I NEVER said he knew he was dying in two years because of pills. What he told her could also mean that he could retire now that he done everything that's possible!!

But she was not bringing it up to discuss his retirement she was discussing his death. You need to go back and watch the interview she said she was not prepared for his death despite knowing two years ahead.

So what? What she siad what he told doesn't mean that he prepared her. So that means he didn't really tell her that he dies, but she was prepared for two years? Makes sense!! TOTALLY.

Menes said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Prince's doctor left his job after Prince's death, claiming he didn't prescribe him Pain Killers. That is as suspisous as Murray running away after MJ was deceased.

Leaving your job because of such a high level of scrutiny, does not equate to involuntary manslaughter regardless of how suspicious it appears to you. There is no evidence that if the doctor prescribed pain killers for Prince ,it was those that killed him. Until he's convicted, there is no reason to link him to Prince's death.

We do know that Murray has been convicted in the death of MJ.

So? There's no real evidence for suicide too, but some people here are 100% sure that he killed himself.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Menes said:

Leaving your job because of such a high level of scrutiny, does not equate to involuntary manslaughter regardless of how suspicious it appears to you. There is no evidence that if the doctor prescribed pain killers for Prince ,it was those that killed him. Until he's convicted, there is no reason to link him to Prince's death.

We do know that Murray has been convicted in the death of MJ.

So? There's no real evidence for suicide too, but some people here are 100% sure that he killed himself.

I don’t know about everyone else but for me, I wouldn’t say 100% sure, but strongly leaning in that direction in my opinion.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Menes said:

Leaving your job because of such a high level of scrutiny, does not equate to involuntary manslaughter regardless of how suspicious it appears to you. There is no evidence that if the doctor prescribed pain killers for Prince ,it was those that killed him. Until he's convicted, there is no reason to link him to Prince's death.

We do know that Murray has been convicted in the death of MJ.

So? There's no real evidence for suicide too, but some people here are 100% sure that he killed himself.

I don't know what "real' evidence means. I don't know who the "some people" are that are 100% sure of what transpired. That is an absolute statement and you would have to tell me who they are. There is circumstantial evidence for a number of opinions on the board. You would have to figure that out on your own time.

With your ferver and quest for the truth, I am sure you will.

You know what I want? His family should just make it public that Prince got murdered ( Traditionally or not, depends on what you believe), had AIDS, cancer, Alzheimers, and committed suicide, all at the same time. So everybody will be satisified, regarding on what version they believe in.

I'm tired of this discussions.

[Edited 10/22/17 20:11pm]

ThatWhiteDude said:

You know what I want? His family should just make it public that Prince got murdered ( Traditionally or not, depends on what you believe), had AIDS, cancer, Alzheimers, and committed suicide, all at the same time. So everybody will be satisified, regarding on what version they believe in.

I'm tired of this discussions.

[Edited 10/22/17 20:11pm]

Take a breather . We will be here when you return to the discussion.

Menes said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

You know what I want? His family should just make it public that Prince got murdered ( Traditionally or not, depends on what you believe), had AIDS, cancer, Alzheimers, and committed suicide, all at the same time. So everybody will be satisified, regarding on what version they believe in.

I'm tired of this discussions.

[Edited 10/22/17 20:11pm]

Take a breather . We will be here when you return to the discussion.

Menes said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Maybe he didn't know what was wrong with the pills? Or maybe he was addicted and just didn't care.

Whether he knew what was in the batch of pills, or which pill would be the final pill he took, remains unsubstantiated . What we do know is that he was well aware of what hapened to him prior. It is not as if there was a sudden disapperance of all cognitive skills or the inability to recall the event.

Quantifying the severity of his addiction/dependence is subjective, but his actions pursuant to overdosing is not in dispute.

i agree with you Menes.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Menes said:

Take a breather . We will be here when you return to the discussion.

DD55 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

So? There's no real evidence for suicide too, but some people here are 100% sure that he killed himself.

I don’t know about everyone else but for me, I wouldn’t say 100% sure, but strongly leaning in that direction in my opinion.

It's a much more plausible conclusion than that of Warner Bros. or any other entity wanting to off the man for increased profits.

or that of the U.S. Government conspiring with some Russian Oligarch to ship a special shipment of fentanyl into Minnesota in order to silence Prince from revealing highy classified documents related to racial warfare after his concert for Freddy Gray.

or exposing the "real" meaning of chemtrails as it relates to population control.

or exposing the "new world order".

or exposing the "illuminati".

or revealing the number of the beast and its correlation to the Catholic church ( as in the Pope).

or that God raptured him up prior to the start of armageddon. Transformed of course.

or that of the Juarez cartel who got word that expanding Mid-West operational routes to Channhassen was about to be exposed after the DEA had place Prince under surveillance.

or of Kirk, (who I certainly believe knew what was going on, and was indeed covering up) sabotaging Prince's meds and planting it all.

or that the M.E. mislead us because the family directed her to do so. Tyka is no joke round them parts.

and lest we forget, the numerologists who have deciphered every number ever associated with him (3,6,7, 40,57,20,16,etc.), who, without fail, (and a trusty enigma coding machine) , confirmed the date and time of death as if it were prophesied in days of old. Where are these guys when I need some power ball numbers?

Jesus, I'm not sure I got the chance to say enough and time is short.


You remember the "pentito" , the one who claimed to love him so much she was coerced into putting pen to paper in order to disparage him in the name of LOVE? We need to make a conspiracy list for the reason she wrote the book and see how that goes.

We should call it " LOVE since when"?


Imagine that. She conspired to disparage the name of the only man she ever loved , in the name of LOVE! This is some real shit here.


Then there was the JUDAS GOAT, who snarled and snorted like a rural wart hog and herded many of minions into discussing many chapters of the book of LOVE.


One can only dream of a thread about the conspiracy to hijack an entire forum in order to discuss the inner workings of how a pentito defines her love.


I summise that this has got to be some new form of Sicilian cosa nostra code unknown to the Sicilian mafia itself. I mean, I know Sicilian Mafia members often relay messages via a non verbal form of communication, but this sort of stab in the back shit by a S/O when you're dead is beyond the pale.

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said: But she was not bringing it up to discuss his retirement she was discussing his death. You need to go back and watch the interview she said she was not prepared for his death despite knowing two years ahead.

So what? What she siad what he told doesn't mean that he prepared her. So that means he didn't really tell her that he dies, but she was prepared for two years? Makes sense!! TOTALLY.

Kowing the social stigma and Prince's claims of a totally clean life, I very much doubt that the family would allow his death to be associated with drug usage/abuse/dependency if he had indeed a terminal ilness. Prince would have hated the thought that people might think him an addict, some sort of failure in society's eyes.

It's gonna be ages before this stigma ceases. In Portugal they treat drug addiction as an ilness.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/04/18/524380027/in-portugal-drug-use-is-treated-as-a-medical-issue-not-a-crime

http://www.economist.com/node/14309861

Menes said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

MMJas said:

"It wasn't hard at all," Nelson said about coming to grips with Prince's death. "It was a two-word phone call: 'He's gone.' And I knew who he meant. I hung up the phone. An employee of Prince called. I have been preparing for two years, so I knew that it was coming."

According to Nelson, Prince hinted to her that his life was winding down.

MMJas said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

So what? What she siad what he told doesn't mean that he prepared her. So that means he didn't really tell her that he dies, but she was prepared for two years? Makes sense!! TOTALLY.

Kowing the social stigma and Prince's claims of a totally clean life, I very much doubt that the family would allow his death to be associated with drug usage/abuse/dependency if he had indeed a terminal ilness. Prince would have hated the thought that people might think him an addict, some sort of failure in society's eyes.

It's gonna be ages before this stigma ceases. In Portugal they treat drug addiction as an ilness.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/04/18/524380027/in-portugal-drug-use-is-treated-as-a-medical-issue-not-a-crime

http://www.economist.com/node/14309861

YOU SUMMED THIS UP PERFECTLY...SORRY FOR SHOUTING. Thank you for your elegant logic.

Menes said:

DD55 said:

I don’t know about everyone else but for me, I wouldn’t say 100% sure, but strongly leaning in that direction in my opinion.

It's a much more plausible conclusion than that of Warner Bros. or any other entity wanting to off the man for increased profits.

or that of the U.S. Government conspiring with some Russian Oligarch to ship a special shipment of fentanyl into Minnesota in order to silence Prince from revealing highy classified documents related to racial warfare after his concert for Freddy Gray.

or exposing the "real" meaning of chemtrails as it relates to population control.

or exposing the "new world order".

or exposing the "illuminati".

or revealing the number of the beast and its correlation to the Catholic church ( as in the Pope).

or that God raptured him up prior to the start of armageddon. Transformed of course.

or that of the Juarez cartel who got word that expanding Mid-West operational routes to Channhassen was about to be exposed after the DEA had place Prince under surveillance.

or of Kirk, (who I certainly believe knew what was going on, and was indeed covering up) sabotaging Prince's meds and planting it all.

or that the M.E. mislead us because the family directed her to do so. Tyka is no joke round them parts.

and lest we forget, the numerologists who have deciphered every number ever associated with him (3,6,7, 40,57,20,16,etc.), who, without fail, (and a trusty enigma coding machine) , confirmed the date and time of death as if it were prophesied in days of old. Where are these guys when I need some power ball numbers?

NOW WE'RE HAVING FUN!!!!! THANK YOU

PennyPurple said:

"It wasn't hard at all," Nelson said about coming to grips with Prince's death. "It was a two-word phone call: 'He's gone.' And I knew who he meant. I hung up the phone. An employee of Prince called. I have been preparing for two years, so I knew that it was coming."

According to Nelson, Prince hinted to her that his life was winding down.

"He said it a couple of years ago: 'I've done everything that I've come to do,'" she recalled. "I was crushed for about two years."

"I've had two years to deal with it, but there's a lot of people that have only had from April to now, so I guess I would say give it another year and a half and maybe you'll be where I'm at," she said. "I'm sorry that you're hurting."

http://www.etonline.com/n..._two_years

She knew it was coming.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

MMJas said:

Kowing the social stigma and Prince's claims of a totally clean life, I very much doubt that the family would allow his death to be associated with drug usage/abuse/dependency if he had indeed a terminal ilness. Prince would have hated the thought that people might think him an addict, some sort of failure in society's eyes.

It's gonna be ages before this stigma ceases. In Portugal they treat drug addiction as an ilness.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/04/18/524380027/in-portugal-drug-use-is-treated-as-a-medical-issue-not-a-crime

http://www.economist.com/node/14309861

YOU SUMMED THIS UP PERFECTLY...SORRY FOR SHOUTING. Thank you for your elegant logic.

Sigh, his family cannot stop the ME decision from being known or the police investigation. They are not saying anything at all about his use of drugs or other reasons he might have been using drugs because they do not want the can of worms to be opened any futher.

Also they may have been instructed by the police to be quiet.

I find it very illogical that people on this board think that Prince was using pain pills for years and it had no effect on his liver whatsoever and he was the picture of health.

We know he used pain pills for pain per Tavis Smiley and loads of other people. Why would any sane person not think this would destroy his organs? If he had liver damage he would have had to withdrawal from the meds immediatly and liver damage is very painful from what I am told.

I had an cyst that pushed on my pancrese and I was ready to run my head into a wall so if it was anything to do with liver damage he was going to have problems.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's assessing probability that matters soooo...

Occam's razor

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally.

By referring to Hickam's Dictum, it seems you're trying to give cover to the idea probability isn't important. It can go take a hike! But that isn't how most people think. And it isn't how the ME/autopsist thinks. Her job was NOT to find out what killed P in old age, by assuming there were multiple disease states in his body, but to ascertain what killed him in middle age, unexpectedly. Occam's Razor is therefore relevant. Basically, drugs were at play and what killed him. Not an underlying illness. That was her conclusion.

Therefore, if you're using Hickam's Dictum as a means for determining likelihood of other illnesses, you need to cough up the evidence. And that means evidence, not guesswork, hearsay, conjecture. So when someone dies for example, and it's seemingly a mystery why, you don't accumulate 'evidence' to support a pre-determined conclusion. You keep an open mind. Here, with Prince, we have a lot of lacking evidence. That doesn't entitle one to contrive gaps, to fill in as they wish.

And just so you know, many people in middle age have damaged organs, it's been determined through autopsies of car crash victims. Younger people, in said scenario, only have damaged liver. But let me guess, you probably take the glib viewpoint, namely that people are either diseased with something, or they're perfectly well. The reality is, there's a LOT of ill health in between. But i digress.

It's the Conspiracy Theorists who tend to completely gloss over or avoid nuance. Which isn't the behaviour of rationalists, who are concerned with being objective and establishing truth.

Why do you insist that the simplest answer is always the truth? I thought you were the most flexible reasonable person on the org? No? Do you know how prince died? I am assuming the answer is no, so who are you to insist that your theories are correct? It doesn't matter what percentage of correctness you assign to your critical thinking, because just like everyone else...you do not know...but you are very very good at insulting anyone that dares to have differing ideas...hopefully you will never have a rare illness and have the Occam's razor theory applied to your diagnosis...that would suck

Did you actually read my post? There was nothing 'simplistic' in what i was saying. The ME's main job was to determine, first of all, whether P died as a result of underlying health issue/terminal illness VS dying of self-administered substances/acute toxicity.

Because there were no underlying health issues that could have brought about early death, 'Hickam's Dictum' has about as much relevance here as Monty Pythons' Bigus Dickus!?

I think you're reading too much into these latin terms and trying to escape a good argument by arguing about semantics instead.

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

YOU SUMMED THIS UP PERFECTLY...SORRY FOR SHOUTING. Thank you for your elegant logic.

Sigh, his family cannot stop the ME decision from being known or the police investigation. They are not saying anything at all about his use of drugs or other reasons he might have been using drugs because they do not want the can of worms to be opened any futher.

Also they may have been instructed by the police to be quiet.

I find it very illogical that people on this board think that Prince was using pain pills for years and it had no effect on his liver whatsoever and he was the picture of health.

We know he used pain pills for pain per Tavis Smiley and loads of other people. Why would any sane person not think this would destroy his organs? If he had liver damage he would have had to withdrawal from the meds immediatly and liver damage is very painful from what I am told.

I had an cyst that pushed on my pancrese and I was ready to run my head into a wall so if it was anything to do with liver damage he was going to have problems.

No fuckin way!

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

Here is a "gubment" study link to a comparative study of suicide , accidental and undetermined cause of death classification.


1.Of particular interest may be : The free hand ME"s are given across the region to determine suicide; See Abstract.


2.Scroll down to "Method" -subsection- Ascertainment. Sentence #3 and onward: This may be of interest as it covers scope or in part , methods used to determine suicide. It could have been applied to Prince's death all the same depending on the interpretation of said investigators and ME involved in his death.


Comparative Analysis of Suicide, Accidental, and Undetermined ...

A good link. Quoted from above...

Interestingly, the suicide group had higher rates of acute pain prior to death (45 % vs. 20%, p= 0.0001) compared with the combined groups, but the undetermined/accidental deaths had higher rates of chronic pain (70% vs. 49%, p= 0.0001).

You could assume the reasoning then, suicide isn't necessarily a compulsively driven act, that it can be impulsive, more than people might think, and that pain is a big motivating factor.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Menes said:

Here is a "gubment" study link to a comparative study of suicide , accidental and undetermined cause of death classification.


1.Of particular interest may be : The free hand ME"s are given across the region to determine suicide; See Abstract.


2.Scroll down to "Method" -subsection- Ascertainment. Sentence #3 and onward: This may be of interest as it covers scope or in part , methods used to determine suicide. It could have been applied to Prince's death all the same depending on the interpretation of said investigators and ME involved in his death.


Comparative Analysis of Suicide, Accidental, and Undetermined ...

A good link. Quoted from above...

Interestingly, the suicide group had higher rates of acute pain prior to death (45 % vs. 20%, p= 0.0001) compared with the combined groups, but the undetermined/accidental deaths had higher rates of chronic pain (70% vs. 49%, p= 0.0001).

You could assume the reasoning then, suicide isn't necessarily a compulsively driven act, that it can be impulsive, more than people might think, and that pain is a big motivating factor.

Correct. Pain, coupled with guilt and shame, can disrupt any rational thought processes in an instant, of which the most seasoned M.E., would not be able to quanitfy with any particular guideline(s) set forth and governed by the state. As quick as that light bulb is turned on ( the impulse), is as quickly as the light could go out.

What's even more disconserting is that some are hardwired that way and cannot function without this inherent impulsive behavior. Even if it means being destructive.

He would've been a great study for Operant conditioning and hardwired behavior.

fortuneandserendipity said: