PeteSilas said:

i got banned defending prince about five years ago, that's when i said fuck this place. I still don't understand why some of his "fans" are here, honestly, there are many more artists out there if you don't like his stuff.

There is NO way you just got banned for "defending" Prince. Come off it. What did you actually do that got you banned?




I tend to take a raised eyebrow approach to most things on the org but I stick around because a) Prince is great (duh) and b) there's always been a wide variety of folk from different backgrounds on here. Being that i'm a white guy from Europe I like to hear about how Prince was received in various different communities in America in the 70's, 80's etc.

For example, I've seen people stating straight out that no black people in America liked prince after the 1999 album because he was a sellout. While i'll take it with a pinch of salt obviously, its interesting to me to hear people talk about their experiences back in the day, i'd rather ask them to explain than start lecturing at them.

I feel I've learnt about a lot of music from people on here, stuff I'm not gonna get reading the likes of Greil Marcus (who is great) or old copies of NME and Smash Hits (also great).

Sorry a bit of a ramble there but I guess my point is that i'd rather embrace the weirdness of the org, even when it's driving me mad with Andy Allo threads or whatever, than try and tell everyone who doesn't have my exact opinion to shut up.

fen said:

that's interesting, the way i remember it, Prince was seen as someone who was consciously trying to crossover, and as someone who was just plain wierd. that's the way i remember it during the early years. I have heard that after 1999 came out and the first single from the title hit, as the tour was underway, there were mainly black audiences, then little red corvette came out and the audiences got whiter. the impression i got, which is certainly not universal, was that by the time purple rain hit, lots of people of all different persuasions jumped onboard, but then prince did a lot of radical things in the next few years which alienated lots of the PR fans, but..., his black audience, seemed to me anyway, were kind of ashamed of him and just thought of his as a wierdo by 1990 or so, i recall comedian tommy davidson doing an impression of prince but not before announcing that it would be prince, the audience said "awww' like they were disgusted, i also heard the rumour that graffiti bridge was premiered in a black theater in NY and the audience shouted gay slurs at the screen, i don't think they knew he was there, but he ran out. in the 90's he alienated just about everyone and lots of people just wrote him off as a lost cause but then by the time of musicology it just seems like he was firmly accepted as a part of black musical tradition by black people, which is how it should have been. I really think he was generally very well loved by black people by the time of his death, no better proof than the atlanta show just a few days before he passed.

jaawwnn said:

PeteSilas said:

i got banned defending prince about five years ago, that's when i said fuck this place. I still don't understand why some of his "fans" are here, honestly, there are many more artists out there if you don't like his stuff.

There is NO way you just got banned for "defending" Prince. Come off it. What did you actually do that got you banned?




I tend to take a raised eyebrow approach to most things on the org but I stick around because a) Prince is great (duh) and b) there's always been a wide variety of folk from different backgrounds on here. Being that i'm a white guy from Europe I like to hear about how Prince was received in various different communities in America in the 70's, 80's etc.

For example, I've seen people stating straight out that no black people in America liked prince after the 1999 album because he was a sellout. While i'll take it with a pinch of salt obviously, its interesting to me to hear people talk about their experiences back in the day, i'd rather ask them to explain than start lecturing at them.

I feel I've learnt about a lot of music from people on here, stuff I'm not gonna get reading the likes of Greil Marcus (who is great) or old copies of NME and Smash Hits (also great).

Sorry a bit of a ramble there but I guess my point is that i'd rather embrace the weirdness of the org, even when it's driving me mad with Andy Allo threads or whatever, than try and tell everyone who doesn't have my exact opinion to shut up.

lemoncrush19 said:

fen said:

Lemoncrush19’s statement that a general nastiness is common in online discussions is true to an extent, but equally I’m a member of online communities in which I haven't seen a genuine spat in almost 10 years (literally). Considering that we’re all gathered around a shared interest, it’s quite spiky around here.

[Edited 9/4/17 17:20pm]

hmmm ... u start a discussion based on my post by only stating YOUR INTERPRETATION of my comment ... well I didn't say that! would be nice to either reply to my full post giving others the chance to see what I actually said. or leave it alone. that's where misunderstanding gets started ... peace & be wild

Fair point, forgive me if it was a misinterpretation of what you said. Here's the statement that I was referring to:

“sadly people seem to forget (or haven't learned at all) how to state an opinion without getting personal and mean as soon as someone else disagrees. that's a general phenomenon, not specifically on the org”

I only mentioned it because it strikes me as an accurate explanation of why things so quickly descend.

oh, and i didn't see the part where you were questioning me, i'll answer that, some guy here, was bitching about Prince wearing glitters on his eyes, i thought it was a trivial thing to bitch about, silly really, so, noting the guys screen name, intimating that he was gay i said "i thought you gay guys liked glitters" and that was it. i can even find the thing for you if it means that much so i don't have to come off anything. this place has always been overmodded, but it bugs me when people can sling mud and talk shit about someone else but they can't take it. I just said fuck this place after that, and i promise you, if prince had never died, i'd have never come back, when i didn, it was to rub some of these peoples noses in the vile crap they spewed over the years because i hoped they felt guilty.

jaawwnn said:

PeteSilas said:

i got banned defending prince about five years ago, that's when i said fuck this place. I still don't understand why some of his "fans" are here, honestly, there are many more artists out there if you don't like his stuff.

There is NO way you just got banned for "defending" Prince. Come off it. What did you actually do that got you banned?




I tend to take a raised eyebrow approach to most things on the org but I stick around because a) Prince is great (duh) and b) there's always been a wide variety of folk from different backgrounds on here. Being that i'm a white guy from Europe I like to hear about how Prince was received in various different communities in America in the 70's, 80's etc.

For example, I've seen people stating straight out that no black people in America liked prince after the 1999 album because he was a sellout. While i'll take it with a pinch of salt obviously, its interesting to me to hear people talk about their experiences back in the day, i'd rather ask them to explain than start lecturing at them.

I feel I've learnt about a lot of music from people on here, stuff I'm not gonna get reading the likes of Greil Marcus (who is great) or old copies of NME and Smash Hits (also great).

Sorry a bit of a ramble there but I guess my point is that i'd rather embrace the weirdness of the org, even when it's driving me mad with Andy Allo threads or whatever, than try and tell everyone who doesn't have my exact opinion to shut up.

PeteSilas said:

that's interesting, the way i remember it, Prince was seen as someone who was consciously trying to crossover, and as someone who was just plain wierd. that's the way i remember it during the early years. I have heard that after 1999 came out and the first single from the title hit, as the tour was underway, there were mainly black audiences, then little red corvette came out and the audiences got whiter. the impression i got, which is certainly not universal, was that by the time purple rain hit, lots of people of all different persuasions jumped onboard, but then prince did a lot of radical things in the next few years which alienated lots of the PR fans, but..., his black audience, seemed to me anyway, were kind of ashamed of him and just thought of his as a wierdo by 1990 or so, i recall comedian tommy davidson doing an impression of prince but not before announcing that it would be prince, the audience said "awww' like they were disgusted, i also heard the rumour that graffiti bridge was premiered in a black theater in NY and the audience shouted gay slurs at the screen, i don't think they knew he was there, but he ran out. in the 90's he alienated just about everyone and lots of people just wrote him off as a lost cause but then by the time of musicology it just seems like he was firmly accepted as a part of black musical tradition by black people, which is how it should have been. I really think he was generally very well loved by black people by the time of his death, no better proof than the atlanta show just a few days before he passed.

Cool yeah, that reads as the fairly accepted story, just the occasional person comes on and makes massive declarations to the contrary about bits of it, it's always a fun read imho and I assume whereever they're from whatever they're saying is probably true.

As for the banning, seems a bit of an extreme reaction to what you did alright.

So this is why you are here?

PeteSilas said:

oh, and i didn't see the part where you were questioning me, i'll answer that, some guy here, was bitching about Prince wearing glitters on his eyes, i thought it was a trivial thing to bitch about, silly really, so, noting the guys screen name, intimating that he was gay i said "i thought you gay guys liked glitters" and that was it. i can even find the thing for you if it means that much so i don't have to come off anything. this place has always been overmodded, but it bugs me when people can sling mud and talk shit about someone else but they can't take it. I just said fuck this place after that, and i promise you, if prince had never died, i'd have never come back, when i didn, it was to rub some of these peoples noses in the vile crap they spewed over the years because i hoped they felt guilty.

jaawwnn said:

There is NO way you just got banned for "defending" Prince. Come off it. What did you actually do that got you banned?




I tend to take a raised eyebrow approach to most things on the org but I stick around because a) Prince is great (duh) and b) there's always been a wide variety of folk from different backgrounds on here. Being that i'm a white guy from Europe I like to hear about how Prince was received in various different communities in America in the 70's, 80's etc.

For example, I've seen people stating straight out that no black people in America liked prince after the 1999 album because he was a sellout. While i'll take it with a pinch of salt obviously, its interesting to me to hear people talk about their experiences back in the day, i'd rather ask them to explain than start lecturing at them.

I feel I've learnt about a lot of music from people on here, stuff I'm not gonna get reading the likes of Greil Marcus (who is great) or old copies of NME and Smash Hits (also great).

Sorry a bit of a ramble there but I guess my point is that i'd rather embrace the weirdness of the org, even when it's driving me mad with Andy Allo threads or whatever, than try and tell everyone who doesn't have my exact opinion to shut up.

purplerabbithole said:

I look at fan pages this way. There are plenty of naysayers of any artist on the internet. Why did the hate have to come here? His hair, makeup, height,clothes, girlfriends, interview techniques, his favorite fucking color?--should those things garner the same amount of discussion than the lyrics of "In a large room with no light"?

Constructive Criticism (about his work and even to some extent about the distribution of his work and his public image) to some extent is understandable. But even constructive criticism too frequently is really not what a fan page should be about. The best way to constructively criticize (IMO) is discussing what he did right more often than what he did wrong . (It would certainly resemble the family he was talking about rather than the fanatics). If Prince wanted attention for his newer work, he would have make it good enough to garner a great deal of respectful discussion on his board--I would think that that would be better than anything he did musically getting disparate knee-jerk reactions ranging from hyperbolic adulation to off the chain hatred. Accepting that the man was human and wasn't going to hit it out of the park every time and then deciding to pick out what he has succeeded at and pointing out why it was a success rather than a failure wouldn't that had been more beneficial to Prince himself than constantly hearing what people didn't like. Its not like he could go back in time and throw it out.. (When fans discuss the works of Spielberg, you know they don't spend equal time dissing on Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull than they do admiring Schindler's list. Spielberg could learn about his mistakes simply by recognizing which works of his get discussed with thoughtful analysis and which get dismissed rather quickly as mistakes and get little attention in later discussion.

Some of the silliest things divided people on here. I am a big fan of that New Girl episode and decided to read up on the initial reaction to the episode. the public and the critics generally liked his work on the show calling him charming and dryly funny. I came on here and looked up old reactions to the show and about half the reactions to him were negative in some way or another (or at least lukewarm.."well, he wasn't horrible" kind of stuff.) P playing a likable love guru version of himself complete with self parody still rubbed some people the wrong way and they made fun of his makeup and his getting older. GOOD grief. Would it have killed some people to just say he did just fine?

[Edited 9/4/17 19:27pm]

But a lot of us here did like the New Girl episode.

A lot did like it. NO doubt. But I was suprised that a half of dozen people mentioned his appearance and still had to state his acting was subpar. It kind of suprised me because I didn't see anything wrong with his believability or line delivery during that show (Maybe, I exagerrated a bit but it doesn't change the fact that it was only here where I read that much criticism.)

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

I look at fan pages this way. There are plenty of naysayers of any artist on the internet. Why did the hate have to come here? His hair, makeup, height,clothes, girlfriends, interview techniques, his favorite fucking color?--should those things garner the same amount of discussion than the lyrics of "In a large room with no light"?

Constructive Criticism (about his work and even to some extent about the distribution of his work and his public image) to some extent is understandable. But even constructive criticism too frequently is really not what a fan page should be about. The best way to constructively criticize (IMO) is discussing what he did right more often than what he did wrong . (It would certainly resemble the family he was talking about rather than the fanatics). If Prince wanted attention for his newer work, he would have make it good enough to garner a great deal of respectful discussion on his board--I would think that that would be better than anything he did musically getting disparate knee-jerk reactions ranging from hyperbolic adulation to off the chain hatred. Accepting that the man was human and wasn't going to hit it out of the park every time and then deciding to pick out what he has succeeded at and pointing out why it was a success rather than a failure wouldn't that had been more beneficial to Prince himself than constantly hearing what people didn't like. Its not like he could go back in time and throw it out.. (When fans discuss the works of Spielberg, you know they don't spend equal time dissing on Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull than they do admiring Schindler's list. Spielberg could learn about his mistakes simply by recognizing which works of his get discussed with thoughtful analysis and which get dismissed rather quickly as mistakes and get little attention in later discussion.

Some of the silliest things divided people on here. I am a big fan of that New Girl episode and decided to read up on the initial reaction to the episode. the public and the critics generally liked his work on the show calling him charming and dryly funny. I came on here and looked up old reactions to the show and about half the reactions to him were negative in some way or another (or at least lukewarm.."well, he wasn't horrible" kind of stuff.) P playing a likable love guru version of himself complete with self parody still rubbed some people the wrong way and they made fun of his makeup and his getting older. GOOD grief. Would it have killed some people to just say he did just fine?

[Edited 9/4/17 19:27pm]

But a lot of us here did like the New Girl episode.

[Edited 9/5/17 5:58am]

fen said:

purplerabbithole said:

A lot did like it. NO doubt. But I was suprised that a half of dozen people mentioned his appearance and still had to state his acting was subpar. It kind of suprised me because I didn't see anything wrong with his believability or line delivery during that show.

Look, people bitched about everything, and other people complimented everything.

I'm often surprised myself digging through old threads how many people hated Musicology (the song) when it came out, saying it was a lame re-thread and completely inspirationless. I think it's a total classic and always have, even before I was Prince fan. So be it. Why not just read KCool posts if you're offended by every negative comment that's ever been posted on here?

lemoncrush19 said:

fen said:

Fair point, forgive me if it was a misinterpretation of what you said. Here's the statement that I was referring to:

“sadly people seem to forget (or haven't learned at all) how to state an opinion without getting personal and mean as soon as someone else disagrees. that's a general phenomenon, not specifically on the org”

I only mentioned it because it strikes me as an accurate explanation of why things so quickly descend.

np and nothing to forgive ... I'm just trying to be pretty careful with words ... and for me the meaning of what I said and what u quoted is slightly different

No, you're right. I was abbreviating, but it wasn't 100% accurate.

purplerabbithole said:

A lot did like it. NO doubt. But I was suprised that a half of dozen people mentioned his appearance and still had to state his acting was subpar. It kind of suprised me because I didn't see anything wrong with his believability or line delivery during that show (Maybe, I exagerrated a bit but it doesn't change the fact that it was only here where I read that much criticism.)

OldFriends4Sale said:

But a lot of us here did like the New Girl episode.

[Edited 9/5/17 5:58am]

The thing is he was not in that episode because of his acting skills, but because of who he was. And it was Prince being playful, funny, showing he could laugh at himself, more laid back, more human. I for one loved the fact he did it, even though I'm not even a fan of the show. He was in it because of who he was and it was wonderful.Bitching about his acting, his makeup and how old he looked was rude and totally unecessary, imo...

*

This just reminded me of a recent show of the band The Cult in which someone screams at Ian Astbury to play some song and he replies: "(Insert name of the song)is dead. You should have been there when I was doing that, and wearing makeup and prancing about. We have moved on. So should you."

[Edited 9/5/17 6:20am]

I am not offended by every negative comment. But acting criticism where that show was concerned made no sense to me. Also, one guy was trolling like crazy on those threads about New Girl.

I like Musicology but I don't love it. I love the album overall though. Different opinions are not what most people are referring to when they talk about the hate on this board. I hate the song "My Name is Prince" but I wouldn't make the hyperbolic statement that that song proves that Prince had become a talentless hack and narcissistic sociopath. (I am not saying that anyone specifically stated that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had.) Obviously, there is difference between disliking some of his work and turning that dislike into a reason to hate the man behind it and to make hyperbolic generalizations.. Also, I think my time is better spent talking about how much I love 7 or Damn U and And God Created Women from the same album--- so, much more posting on my part would be about what I like.

jaawwnn said:

purplerabbithole said:

A lot did like it. NO doubt. But I was suprised that a half of dozen people mentioned his appearance and still had to state his acting was subpar. It kind of suprised me because I didn't see anything wrong with his believability or line delivery during that show.

Look, people bitched about everything, and other people complimented everything.

I'm often surprised myself digging through old threads how many people hated Musicology (the song) when it came out, saying it was a lame re-thread and completely inspirationless. I think it's a total classic and always have, even before I was Prince fan. So be it. Why not just read KCool posts if you're offended by every negative comment that's ever been posted on here?

[Edited 9/5/17 6:23am]

[Edited 9/5/17 6:31am]

Yeah, I agree, we should spend more time talking about what we like or at least being critical in a good sense.

And yet here we are, you bitching about people bitching about Prince, and me bitching about you bitching about people bitching about Prince

I hear ya...

jaawwnn said:

Yeah, I agree, we should spend more time talking about what we like or at least being critical in a good sense.

And yet here we are, you bitching about people bitching about Prince, and me bitching about you bitching about people bitching about Prince

jaawwnn said:

Yeah, I agree, we should spend more time talking about what we like or at least being critical in a good sense.

And yet here we are, you bitching about people bitching about Prince, and me bitching about you bitching about people bitching about Prince

yeah folks have different ways to use their lifetime

MMJas said:

But to hide behind a keyboard and spat out stuff about his appearance, getting older, playing the same songs live,

.

Same old songs is a matter of verifyable fact.

There is nothing rude, ever, about stating verifiable facts.

He plaid a lot of songs over 20 years old.

Implication of stating that is: we did not like that too much after a few shows.

How hard can it be to grasp that?

.

Other perspective on same issue:
Why release new albums that do not sell too much when he only plaid old stuff anyway?

The vault could have been bigger, fuller...

Give P a break on that one. He can't win on that issues. Too many new or deep cut songs, casual fans and lazy critics complain. Too many old or really well known songs, diehards have a fit. I must say in my limited knowledge of his concerts (a full year of scoping youtube for live clips), he seems to have done quite a few songs live.

udo said:

MMJas said:

But to hide behind a keyboard and spat out stuff about his appearance, getting older, playing the same songs live,

.

Same old songs is a matter of verifyable fact.

There is nothing rude, ever, about stating verifiable facts.

He plaid a lot of songs over 20 years old.

Implication of stating that is: we did not like that too much after a few shows.

How hard can it be to grasp that?

.

Other perspective on same issue:
Why release new albums that do not sell too much when he only plaid old stuff anyway?

The vault could have been bigger, fuller...

[Edited 9/5/17 8:00am]

udo said:

MMJas said:

But to hide behind a keyboard and spat out stuff about his appearance, getting older, playing the same songs live,

.

Same old songs is a matter of verifyable fact.

There is nothing rude, ever, about stating verifiable facts.

He plaid a lot of songs over 20 years old.

Implication of stating that is: we did not like that too much after a few shows.

How hard can it be to grasp that?

.

Other perspective on same issue:
Why release new albums that do not sell too much when he only plaid old stuff anyway?

The vault could have been bigger, fuller...

I understand what you're saying, in fact the complaining about him only playing the same songs live is the complaint that less bothers me.

Perhaps playing the same songs live was the only way to guarantee a full house. Prince was off the internet, not on youtube and not on streaming services, many young folks had (and still have) no idea who he was, which was a damn shame.

rogifan said:

How could anyone be critical of the new girl episode? It was perfect for what it was.

I don't know about New Girl (never seen it), but the Muppets thing made me feel as though I'd fallen into a parallel universe.

Well, everbody has an opinion. Sometimes the hardcore fans would express their concerns (okay bitch about it) that Prince used sampler sets or just played hits. So, Prince's answer to all that was The Live Out Loud Tour. Small venues equal more freedom to play more obscure songs. Win, Win. Thank you Prince.

PeteSilas said:

oh, and i didn't see the part where you were questioning me, i'll answer that, some guy here, was bitching about Prince wearing glitters on his eyes, i thought it was a trivial thing to bitch about, silly really, so, noting the guys screen name, intimating that he was gay i said "i thought you gay guys liked glitters" and that was it. i can even find the thing for you if it means that much so i don't have to come off anything. this place has always been overmodded, but it bugs me when people can sling mud and talk shit about someone else but they can't take it. I just said fuck this place after that, and i promise you, if prince had never died, i'd have never come back, when i didn, it was to rub some of these peoples noses in the vile crap they spewed over the years because i hoped they felt guilty.

I think your post was interpreted as homophobic is all. I once had a comment skipped because I used the word "homo" for W&L, which in French has absolutely no negative connotation (it's just short for homosexual) but I learned on that day that in English it was pretty pejorative. Mods won't tolerate discrimination, which I guess is pretty normal for any board.

kewlschool said:

Well, everbody has an opinion. Sometimes the hardcore fans would express their concerns (okay bitch about it) that Prince used sampler sets or just played hits. So, Prince's answer to all that was The Live Out Loud Tour. Small venues equal more freedom to play more obscure songs. Win, Win. Thank you Prince.

He played Portugal and he played Bambi. That's good enough for me.

kewlschool said:

Well, everbody has an opinion. Sometimes the hardcore fans would express their concerns (okay bitch about it) that Prince used sampler sets or just played hits. So, Prince's answer to all that was The Live Out Loud Tour. Small venues equal more freedom to play more obscure songs. Win, Win. Thank you Prince.

Playing the hits was really something that made me lose interest in his live performances for the last 20 years (save the ONA and LOL and Piano tours and the occasional one-off performance where he'd play rarer or newer material), but I realized that you don't fill arenas so easily by playing obscure songs or the whole 20ten album. I nevertheless voiced my opinion about the fact that I, as a hardcore fan, wasn't interested in those greatest hits shows, or the sound of the Vegas-like big band he used the last few years alongside 3EG for that matter, but I tried to do it respectfully, realizing that the shows weren't bad, they were just somewhat boring for me because there wasn't anything new or challenging in it for me. But Prince wasn't filling those arenas with thousands of clones of me, so you know... Even he once said that he'd rather tour the newest album each year, but it wasn't what the crowd wanted so (for once) he wasn't going to be obstinate. Actually this is one of the very few cases where Prince compromised with what audiences and the system wanted, and he got bashed for that just as much as every other time when he wouldn't

kewlschool said:

NorthC said: