rogifan said:

Marrk said:

I know right? I don't remember anything like that. A thread like that would blow up like crazy and run and run, Wish rogifan would post links to these threads he's looking at.

Here’s a couple http://prince.org/msg/7/388171 http://prince.org/msg/7/364089

Oh boy...

donnyenglish said:

I posted on here about my disappointment with Phase 1 like Prince stole something from me. I was really harsh, but not disrespectful. The last time I saw Prince was on January 23, 2016 at Paisley and he played lots of the Phase 1 album while he was the DJ and he also did the sample set. I actually started liking Phase 1 after that night and it goes to show that Prince was always three steps ahead of us. I now regret my posts and hope he did not read them. I acted like Prince owed me something and he somehow committed a crime by releasing an album that I thought was substandard at the time. Who am I to criticize the greatest artist of all time?

*

It's natural/normal that we will not like everything our favorite artist does. Prince, or anybody, being our favorite artist does not make him perfect nor does it mean that we will be insync with him at all times. I learned that lesson early with Around the World in a Day. When I first heard it, I had two very distinct reactions. One, I loved it. Two, I realized, "This dude is so creative and so daring that it's almost certain that one day he'll do something that I might not like. But, until then, I'mma just play this album again, and again, and again." So, for me, while there were, of course, songs here and there that didn't move me, it wasn't until Hit & Run: Phase 1 that I had an album that I disliked more songs than I like. Yet, having been prepared for that moment so many years ago, I could only think, "Oh, well, it was a long and fabulous ride." So, yeah, it's natural that there is stuff by our favorite artist that we will not like, but, like you said, that shouldn't be taken as a betrayal or personal affront as so many do.

rogifan said:

1725topp said:

*

First, thanks so much for your kind response to my comment. The only thing I'll add about folks, mostly African Americans, complaining about Prince not dating or showcasing dark skinned women throughout his career is that comes from centuries of African Americans seeing their image/bodies, history, and culture marginalized and lampooned by American media. Often, the history of African-American entertainers was a history/process of trying to make white owners and patrons/audiences feel comfortable with blackness. (Even Prince, himself, once stated in a Rolling Stone article that “Wendy makes me more acceptable. When I sneer, she smiles.”) As such, lighter skinned blacks, regardless of talent, were always more accepted/patronized than dark skinned blacks. That's not an opinion. Just do some research on the "Brown Paper Bag" Theory. Unfortunately, after centuries of living under white supremacy, many African Americans began to internalize this notion, which evolved into black self-hatred in which African Americans, themselves, perpetuated the "Brown Paper Bag" theory as a way to ingratiate themselves to the white power structure. Thus, whenever an African American who knows/understands this history sees someone like Prince who is obviously a product of the genius of the black community/black culture exclusively dating and highlighting lighter skinned women, they, for the sake of history and racial progress, must wonder, if not ask aloud, what is the reasoning for this. Is it because he just so happened to find women with whom he is intellectually, emotionally, and artistically compatible who also just happen to be of a lighter skin tone? Or, is it that he, himself, is color struck--which is merely a way of saying that he has embraced/accepted the European aesthetic of beauty--and dates these lighter skinned women as a way to make himself feel better about himself or merely as some sort of status/class symbol?

*

To be clear, I don't know if I've ever heard someone say that Prince doesn't have the right to date women of any complexion. However, when one understands the history of centuries of psychological warfare that African people have endured, especially in America, then one realizes that the question of Prince's dating tastes/patterns must be examined as a way to understand/measure where society is in this course/journey of race relations.

*

Finally, you should find a thread that was created when the "Black Sweat" video was released. There was a white member who basically called the model "ugly" as well as some other names. As such, we must ask ourselves, in light of that comment, how would Prince's white fans have reacted or embraced him had he dated mostly or exclusively dark skinned women? Of course, it's difficult to answer a hypothetical as we all feel/hope that the best of ourselves would be divulged in any situation. But, given the way many white fans reacted to The Rainbow Children, "We March," "Dear Mr. Man," many other songs, and when Prince stated during the Baltimore benefit concert that "The next time I come to Baltimore I want to play in a theatre owned by you and stay in a hotel owned by you," it is safe to say that a good number of Prince's white fans could only love him as long as he was their little racially ambiguous erotic nymph child. Yet, the moment that he, as an African-American man, began engaging issues specific to the African-American community, all hell broke loose. And, we have the threads on this site as proof.

*

Ultimately, all of us come to Prince for various reasons, and, at any moment/movement throughout Prince’s career, some of his fans have felt betrayed as when one white gay member of the org, Spinlight, who I greatly respect and like, said that he felt betrayed by “Dear Mr. Man” and the entire Rainbow Children album. While I understand his position, as an African-American man I also wonder why so many white fans had problems with or didn’t understand Prince’s need to address issues directly/specifically related to African Americans. As I said in my earlier post, even though The Rainbow Children is considered the racial linchpin, issues of race have always simmered just beneath the surface of Prince fandom.

Thanks again for the thoughtful response. I can’t really comment as I’m whiter than white (thanks to my Irish dad). But, I will say I’ve never felt that Prince purposely avoided working with people who had darker skin color. And I personally have no issue with him raising issues specific to the black community. In fact I’m glad he was trying to get people to channel their anger into something positive. I’d love to see more minority owned businesses and wealth. When they prosper everyone prospers. Perhaps I’m an anomaly amongst Prince’s white fans. I hope not. Also, I’ve seen posts here from people complaining he didn’t work with enough white people yet the last band he had was made up of 3 white women. All I can say is: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [Edited 9/2/17 18:05pm]

Yup to this! Rogifan, ye of brave steel heart to bring up the subject of hatefulness on the Org. I'm always happy to hear of your support of what Prince was doing with his career.

>

1725topp, I always enjoy your breakdown of situations in Prince-world.

>

It is clear that some people would come to the 'net on a mission to tear the man and his career to shreds for any number of reasons, I imagine. Some people are just mean-spirited and will do such things for sport--the anonymity of the face of the internet will lend to this act. Others could be dissapointed by some course of action by the artist that they would not agree upon, as though his life and career should soley be designed to gratify their very individualistic desires or those of the corporate entertainment world. He would never lay claim to their lives in the the way that some of them would try to do to him. Comments could be painful to read, and now that we know he came here often to look into our thoughts, I'd cringe if not for understanding that he was a man of strong faith, always conducted the acts that he believed in, and that such course sustained him beyond whatever material gains he might receive. I've been one to appreciate Prince's talent and skill from A to Z, to bring different approaches to his songcraft; musicality; stagecraft; recording techniques; calls for utopia, freak-flag flying, societal cohesiveness, and individuality. Most of these things I've enjoyed, as I am a fan of diversity. I've realized that a person as creative and envelope-pushing as he could make pathway turns that are unexpected and perhaps unsavory (once again--rare, because his heart was always in the right place as far as I could tell) but he always came through for me because he always put his heart and soul into what he was doing, and would always, eventually, reach back to make sure that friends, fans, and associates were all right. At any rate, at root I could always accept that his life and career were his own and detach at the appropriate moment. I guess that is why I eventually signed-on as a member and continue to check in at prince.org.

>

He repped his hometown to the end--at his last show I attended he was all about letting people understand that he was a man from Minneapolis. In the end, in his own mind, irregardless of his exceptional talets, he was never bigger than that. And that's pretty cool coming from a superstar, IMO!

[Edited 9/3/17 9:58am]

TrevorAyer said:

Eye am sure prince preferred honesty to ass kissing .. at his pay grade and fame level, honesty was a rarity

You were one of the biggest Prince trolls there ever was. And here you are on this thread with the audacity. If it were my site, Id ban you on general p, but I'm not. You were hateful and cruel just to get the negative attention a troll craves. As a grown man, you should be ashamed. But you're not, and that says a lot.

rdhull said:

TrevorAyer said:

Eye am sure prince preferred honesty to ass kissing .. at his pay grade and fame level, honesty was a rarity

You were one of the biggest Prince trolls there ever was. And here you are on this thread with the audacity. If it were my site, Id ban you on general p, but I'm not. You were hateful and cruel just to get the negative attention a troll craves. As a grown man, you should be ashamed. But you're not, and that says a lot.

*

Hey, rdhull and TrevorAyer, before y'all start going back and forth at each other, I just want to step in and say it sho' is nice that y'all 'bout to make it like ole times 'round here. Now, with that stated, LET"S GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLEEEEE! :^)

1725topp said:

Germanegro said:

rogifan said:

1725topp said: Thanks again for the thoughtful response. I can’t really comment as I’m whiter than white (thanks to my Irish dad). But, I will say I’ve never felt that Prince purposely avoided working with people who had darker skin color. And I personally have no issue with him raising issues specific to the black community. In fact I’m glad he was trying to get people to channel their anger into something positive. I’d love to see more minority owned businesses and wealth. When they prosper everyone prospers. Perhaps I’m an anomaly amongst Prince’s white fans. I hope not. Also, I’ve seen posts here from people complaining he didn’t work with enough white people yet the last band he had was made up of 3 white women. All I can say is: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [Edited 9/2/17 18:05pm]

Yup to this! Rogifan, ye of brave steel heart to bring up the subject of hatefulness on the Org. I'm always happy to hear of your support of what Prince was doing with his career.

>

1725topp, I always enjoy your breakdown of situations in Prince-world.

>

It is clear that some people would come to the 'net on a mission to tear the man and his career to shreds for any number of reasons, I imagine. Some people are just mean-spirited and will do such things for sport--the anonymity of the face of the internet will lend to this act. Others could be dissapointed by some course of action by the artist that they would not agree upon, as though his life and career should soley be designed to gratify their very individualistic desires or those of the corporate entertainment world. He would never lay claim to their lives in the the way that some of them would try to do to him. Comments could be painful to read, and now that we know he came here often to look into our thoughts, I'd cringe if not for understanding that he was a man of strong faith, always conducted the acts that he believed in, and that such course sustained him beyond whatever material gains he might receive. I've been one to appreciate Prince's talent and skill from A to Z, to bring different approaches to his songcraft; musicality; stagecraft; recording techniques; calls for utopia, freak-flag flying, societal cohesiveness, and individuality. Most of these things I've enjoyed, as I am a fan of diversity. I've realized that a person as creative and envelope-pushing as he could make pathway turns that are unexpected and perhaps unsavory (once again--rare, because his heart was always in the right place as far as I could tell) but he always came through for me because he always put his heart and soul into what he was doing, and would always, eventually, reach back to make sure that friends, fans, and associates were all right. At any rate, at root I could always accept that his life and career were his own and detach at the appropriate moment. I guess that is why I eventually signed-on as a member and continue to check in at prince.org.

>

He repped his hometown to the end--at his last show I attended he was all about letting people understand that he was a man from Minneapolis. In the end, in his own mind, irregardless of his exceptional talets, he was never bigger than that. And that's pretty cool coming from a superstar, IMO!

[Edited 9/3/17 9:58am]

*

Thanks for the kind words and Amen! Now, let's get out the way before rdhull and TrevorAyer start to movin' furniture all up in dis piece.

^^^^

It is coming!

1725topp said:

lemoncrush19 said:

sadly people seem to forget (or haven't learned at all) how to state an opinion without getting personal and mean as soon as someone else disagrees. that's a general phenomenon, not specifically on the org but this place may have a good tradition of thinking being mean was cool or something.

irl no one wants to say what they really think cuz they're scared of being judged and/or to come into conflict. but there couldn't be any conflict if no one would take opinions personal and judge others for their opinion!

online people feel safe and dump all the frustration, anger and disappointment they gathered for weeks in their own lives and didn't dare to speak out ... forgetting that there's always a living and breathing human being on the other end ... just because u can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. they are. with their own struggles and hurting and feelings. they are. but it's even more than this ... cuz sometimes I get the feeling some people don't forget but do it intentional ... actually trying to hurt somebody and looking for a fight about anything outside their own lives. do y'all feel better then?

this saddens me every day and everywhere. but especially around here cuz prince was all about love4oneanother and he showed us his entire life how to do without judging and labeling and beeing mean and ugly ... he deserved better at least from his fans who claim loving him ...

and yes prince was always open to constructive critisism but nothing mentioned here before and nothing about those posts the op was talking about (I guess cuz I won't mess up my mind with reading those old threads) falls into the category "constructive".

peace and be wild

Constructive criticism is totally different to what and still is being said about Prince on this org. Some of ya'll were very nasty when he was alive and some are still the same after his passing. I hope you all can rid yourself of any bitterness. The truth was bart was one of the best and most informative posters about Prince and his music but something changed and it turned to bitterness and mostly trolling in my opinion. 2016 we lost Prince , 2017 i lost my wife to cancer. People need to think before they say something they will regret

[Edited 9/3/17 15:18pm]

Guitarhero said:

Guitarhero said:

Constructive criticism is totally different to what and still is being said about Prince on this org. Some of ya'll were very nasty when he was alive and some are still the same after his passing. I hope you all can rid yourself of any bitterness. The truth was bart was one of the best and most informative posters about Prince and his music but something changed and it turned to bitterness and mostly trolling in my opinion. 2016 we lost Prince , 2017 i lost my wife to cancer. People need to think before they say something they will regret

[Edited 9/3/17 15:18pm]

*

I like what you said about Bart. In the beginning, I greatly anticipated his posts. Dude is a wealth of information when he wants to be. I hated seeing him change like he did. Yet, even now, when he wants to do so, he drops some fine jewels. And, ironically, it seems that we are saying of Bart what he has spent the last five years or more saying about Prince. Does that make us Bart-minions? :^)

anangellooksdown said:

Yes...and all he did was LOVE US in return.
With the exception of a few lawsuits.
AND he just kept being himself anyway.
He knew we would get it someday. All of it.

Purplebflogirl said:

We may never know for sure if he came to the org..Imho he probably did.The ones that know for sure have never confirmed it.. The owner of the org and perhaps moderators. They could tell by the IP Addy..If he or anyone at PP came on here..Which posts were clicked on etc..It's been over a year now..Why not share with us? There are so many secrets/ mysteries ..Why does knowing if he came here have to be one if them?

Its been reported by the owner and mods that Prince did come to the org. Often.

rdhull said:

Guitarhero said:

Constructive criticism is totally different to what and still is being said about Prince on this org. Some of ya'll were very nasty when he was alive and some are still the same after his passing. I hope you all can rid yourself of any bitterness. The truth was bart was one of the best and most informative posters about Prince and his music but something changed and it turned to bitterness and mostly trolling in my opinion. 2016 we lost Prince , 2017 i lost my wife to cancer. People need to think before they say something they will regret

[Edited 9/3/17 15:18pm]

Oh, damn, Guitarhero. I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your wife; you had said she was ill and I was pulling for you and her. That breaks my heart. I hope you have a good support system in your life. These losses are so hard. I hope you will continue to post and know that people on this board cared and were concerned even though we didn't know the issues. I've had several losses in the past couple of years, but not a spouse. Best wishes to you and my condolences.

xRachx said:

Maybe the aftershows disappeared cos P wasn't up to it as much. How many 50+ year olds could travel, sound check, rehearse, do a full show and then an after show. To expect the man to still be at the same pace as he was in his 20s is unbelievable. I don't think the lack of aftershows shows he wasn't feeling his new music at all.

Exactly

rogifan said:

daKotaGeNesis said:

I went through most of the post on here from 2009-2015 and was surprised by the stuff I read! I wonder if he was reading stuff on this forum before he died...

At least it’s not as bad as lipstick alley where people bagged on Prince for not having enough dark skinned band members or dating a dark skinned woman.

I looked at older threads also, and this was discussed here. And maybe this can help you understand a bit as to why this may have been a topic of discussion over on lipstick alley.

http://www.forharriet.com/2016/05/for-colored-girls-who-loved-prince.html#axzz4rgInWw9Q

Guitarhero said:

Constructive criticism is totally different to what and still is being said about Prince on this org. Some of ya'll were very nasty when he was alive and some are still the same after his passing. I hope you all can rid yourself of any bitterness. The truth was bart was one of the best and most informative posters about Prince and his music but something changed and it turned to bitterness and mostly trolling in my opinion. 2016 we lost Prince , 2017 i lost my wife to cancer. People need to think before they say something they will regret

[Edited 9/3/17 15:18pm]

So sorry for your loss.

EnDoRpHn said:

It's far worse than people saying he needed guitar lessons or that they disliked his albums. In the year before he died, I saw people hear talking about how his star had faded to the point that they wondered whether anyone would miss him when he was gone.

That's just sad. Why bother to post crap like that, especially when you know there's a big possibility the person will read it? Some people are increadibly insensitive. The internet has made way for a lot of bullying and dissing that would not take place face to face. In a way, it has brought out the worst in people. Good thing it also has good aspects to it...

1725topp said:

rdhull said:

You were one of the biggest Prince trolls there ever was. And here you are on this thread with the audacity. If it were my site, Id ban you on general p, but I'm not. You were hateful and cruel just to get the negative attention a troll craves. As a grown man, you should be ashamed. But you're not, and that says a lot.

*

Hey, rdhull and TrevorAyer, before y'all start going back and forth at each other, I just want to step in and say it sho' is nice that y'all 'bout to make it like ole times 'round here. Now, with that stated, LET"S GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLEEEEE! :^)

1725topp said:

People complained because they cared, people got offended by those who complained because they cared. Yeah people were and are overly nasty, and others were and are synchophantic nutjobs who don't listen to anyone else, so fucking what. World takes all sorts.