rdhull said:

Don't like it. no. The live versions are so betta.

Where the fuck is Wednesday? Dammit.

donnyenglish said:

rdhull said:

G Spot os meandeing. And "ordinary." These other jams are not normal traditional songs in the sense of the music and structure. The essence of what vintage Prince music was about. I dont get the love but like they say we all have different tastes.

Wow. I think G Spot is brilliant and funky. That sparse bass line drives it. To each his own. If I were to be critical, it sounds very "80's" but otherwise is one of the better circulating bootleg songs. Not top 10, but top 20. Roadhouse Garden, Destiny and the studio version of Electric Intercourse would not make my top 20. The live version of Electric Intercourse is probably in my top 5. The studio version actually wouldn't make my top 50. Sounds really hokie. [Edited 5/13/17 8:03am]

I think the differences in what some folks like is that some were fans pre ATWIAD and some came after. Some of us were drawn to that 1999 electro synth fried non traditional rnb stuff. Like new wave soul if you will.

2freaky4church1 said:

Where the fuck is Wednesday? Dammit.

^^^^^ THIS x100. It's the only track that's really missing here. I do hope the rest of these vault items are from the vault. There seems to be a lot of disagreement as to the source of "Moonbeam Levels", and while studio versions of "Electric Intercourse" and "Our Destiny/R.G." have never circulated ... I just hope it's as good of quality as possible. But "Wednesday" missing is a huge error on WB's part. One song, but still. They could have consulted any of The Revolution, or even Albert Magnoli (does he still have tapes of those 100 songs?) to know about "Wednesday" or otherwise. I'm still happy about the tracklist in general. Nothing is going to be perfect as everyone wants it, but this is pretty good overall.

SoulAlive said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I'm enjoying the paired tracks. Sound is a bit harsh on OD, but glad to have this. Listened to it on headphones all the way up & the overall sound still held well even though the recording is flawed.

After listening to OD a few for times the crashing cymbols have grown on me. The vocals do fade out a bit, but beggers can't be choosy right? Well, here they very much can be lol.

Very much enjoy the build up of the OD & the segue into RG which acompanies it well imo.

Can't wait until this set is finally realeased.

rdhull said:

Cosmic Day is one of the most overrated unreleased songs in his repetoire..tied with that Big Tall Wall crap ppl used to die for.

fur sure ..they both suck

It's nice.

Prefer the the rockiness of the rehearsals and live performances.

I'm really missing BrownMark's groovybass segue into RHG and I also prefer the tone of Wendy's guitar playing the main riff rather than keys in this release. But I still like it.

GuyBros said:

paulludvig said:

GuyBros said:

It's nice.

Prefer the the rockiness of the rehearsals and live performances.

I'm really missing BrownMark's groovybass segue into RHG and I also prefer the tone of Wendy's guitar playing the main riff rather than keys in this release. But I still like it.

'The tone of Wendy's guitar playing'.

man U love licking Wendy's feet don't you lol

paulludvig said:

GuyBros said:

It's nice.

Prefer the the rockiness of the rehearsals and live performances.

I'm really missing BrownMark's groovybass segue into RHG and I also prefer the tone of Wendy's guitar playing the main riff rather than keys in this release. But I still like it.

'The tone of Wendy's guitar playing'.

Yeah, it's Wendy on guitar for most of the releases, and that's her guitar rig and tone. And I prefer it as well as Brownmark's bass segue into Roadhouse Garden.

The softer version on the recording with, presumably, Lisa's keys (or Matt's), is nice. But yeah, prefer the version with that specific guitar tone and playing verses that keyboard riff.

Why?

Do you take issue with the fact that it's Wendy's playing or Brownmarks playing in those live boots? Because there's actual video proof.

Or perhaps I can offer you some cause girl, you THIRSTY!

[Edited 5/13/17 18:56pm]

soladeo1 said:

Evidently it's out on iTunes in certain Asian countries and maybe OzLand???

If you've heard it, TELL US ABOUT IT!!!

Who is singing the Our Destiny part? Lisa?

Anything sound new or different or unexpected??

How does it sound MASTERED???

Not wanting to go all Daily Mail about it but Wendy and Lisa have always given me the right horn, which as we all know is the giant trumpet device that causes boats to not run aground in misty weathers.

coldasice said:

Yes I made the newbie post. It was only due to influx of craziness since P died. For example...these McDonald's questions and stuff of that sort are just silly. This Roadhouse Garden question is totally valid, but "How did Prince smell?"Really. That type of thing is what I was talking about. This forum used to be interesting and about the music. The other thing I notice is a new other will post an article from years ago that we've seen millions of times, however don't annoy anybody & I'm happy to answer any I know the answer to. Anyway I can't wait to hear Roadhouse Garden I was hoping Our Destiny would be the duet version or just P, still cool though. Sorry for sounding drab about new members I'm really not a dick, sorry.

Since the forum is titled "Prince: Music and More;" seems like a question that would fall under the "more" category

TheEnglishGent said:

coldasice said:

Yes I made the newbie post. It was only due to influx of craziness since P died. For example...these McDonald's questions and stuff of that sort are just silly. This Roadhouse Garden question is totally valid, but "How did Prince smell?"Really. That type of thing is what I was talking about. This forum used to be interesting and about the music. The other thing I notice is a new other will post an article from years ago that we've seen millions of times, however don't annoy anybody & I'm happy to answer any I know the answer to. Anyway I can't wait to hear Roadhouse Garden I was hoping Our Destiny would be the duet version or just P, still cool though. Sorry for sounding drab about new members I'm really not a dick, sorry.

This forum has always had shit like, 'how did Prince smell'. There may be more newbies now, so those sort of things may be suddenly more common but we've always had crap like Prince's feet, http://prince.org/msg/7/29698, has Prince ever dated a fat chick, http://prince.org/msg/7/388000 and thousands of other meaningless threads about nonsense. The place goes down hill once we're a couple of months past a new release and it's a slow news time.

Oh, and let's not forget the classic sand dollar incident, although I couldn't find a link.

In my humble opinon this is what I believe made Prince so unique; that his fan base and the specific things which draw them to him, was/is as diverse as Prince's music. Interesting that some may find that type of question "silly"; but I find it very interesting and telling that on CBS This Morning, Dave Chappelle recounted this about his sister upon attending her first Prince concert where Prince ended up going her a guitar pick that said Love God: "and she had been in the front row and said "I love you", and he very pointedly was like, "I love you too" and my sister was a bigger girl, she was chubby. And this meant the world to her, that he would pay that kind of attention". Although he wanted us to focus on the music, some of us couldn't and can't because whatever he thought, he was more than the music.

KingSausage said:

Just don't click on the shitty threads. Let everyone have their fun.

This. The org is many, many things all at once. Pick the strata that work for you.

KingSausage said:

Just don't click on the shitty threads. Let everyone have their fun.

Be careful using logic so carelessly, you might be hurting the brains of those around you...

djThunderfunk said:

These outtakes really put me back in that '83-84 era.

The vocals, music...

I like all decades Prince but it's nice 2 get that Purple feeling once again with some songs I didn't hear before. (and I heard some bootlegs through the years)

GuyBros said:

It's nice.

Prefer the the rockiness of the rehearsals and live performances.

I'm really missing BrownMark's groovybass segue into RHG and I also prefer the tone of Wendy's guitar playing the main riff rather than keys in this release. But I still like it.

Agree but this is what makes Prince's music so interesting for me. The studio takes and the live takes are always so different.

[Edited 5/14/17 11:13am]

Great to have both songs in studio versions.

The live version of "Our Destiny" is superior to the studio version here, largely due to Prince's vocals being much more compelling than Lisa's. I love Lisa, but seldom am I blown away by her lead vocals. No exception here. I will say this is a difficult song to sing with a huge range and definitely not in her wheelhouse - other songs suit her much better.

It's a good song and from that era where even the merely "good" tracks have all kinds of great ideas worked into them so it's a joy to hear this.

The studio version of "Roadhouse Garden" here is miles better than the live version from that same birthday live show in '84. The live version was much more muscular funk - nothing wrong with that per se, but I find the juxtaposition of the hard, driving drums and the delicate key lines and Prince's ragged, almost wistful singing to be so much more memorable.

I love the missing bass - like so many of the bassless tracks from this era, it lends a lot of harmonic ambiguity that makes "decoding" by the listener more challenging. It's like an impressionist painting where the viewer has to spend time making out exactly what the artist intended to reveal, rather than standard portraiture which is much more easily interpreted.

Prince's vocals here sound overworked or possibly suffering from a cold. It gives them an edge that is perfect. Love his vocal phrasing choices, too - I wouldn't change a note. Brilliant vocal performance. Unlike the live take, which doesn't go anywhere, this touches something. I really like the track overall.

I'd love to have better quality but am frankly OK with the fidelity issues. Viewed through the lens of this being a release along the lines of "Dirty Mind" or Dylan's "The Basement Tapes" where the rough quality is a feature, not a bug, then it's really no problem.

madhouseman said:

Our Destiny and Roadhouse Garden are basically the way they were recorded in May and June of 1984, with Lisa's vocals recorded on September 27, 1984 (the following day, Jill Jones also recorded her vocals for the track). As far as I can tell in the quick listen I've given to them, they are pretty much identical to what was done in 1984, with the exception of the edit, which came at a later date.

The were recorded as two seperate tracks, although they were performed together for their live premiere on June 7, 1984.

The difference in quality may stem from them being recorded at different times on different systems. Both were started at the warehouse which was not always the best place to record (Roadhouse Garden being among the first in the new warehouse), but Our Destiny was overdubbed at Sunset Sound, which could have altered the sound of the recording. I also don't know the sources of these originals that were used, but they were not meant to be blended, as you can tell from the change in quality.

Regarding some who have a problem with these being issued on the PR re-release, these were started 2 months after When Doves Cry and only days after Possessed was being edited for use in the movie, so it is still well within the range of the Purple Rain era. In fact, other tracks that are part of this CD reissue were recorded much later in 1984 (after the album and film had been released). Dance Electric was recorded on August 17, 1984, God (vocal) on August 19, 1984, and the extended version of I Would Die 4 U was recorded on October 25, 1984.

It could be argued that Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden should be placed on a deluxe version of ATWIAD, but by May/June 1984, only 2 tracks for that album had been recorded: Pop Life (February ’84) and ‘Raspberry Beret’ (April ’84). ‘Paisley Park’ (March ’84) was the title of an instrumental which had nothing in common with the song that would eventually share the name, so at this stage.

Personally, I would have saved these for a release of the Roadhouse Garden album that Prince had mentioned multiple times, but historically, they are arguably in the proper place chronologically.

I hope that helps explain this a little bit.

Many thanks for the info, super useful as always.

I have to say I share Revolution81's skepticism about the 2 songs having been segued into one another, as such, by Prince: while this worked remarkably well on stage, this studio versions mashup sounds like something that was done in 2 minutes on Audacity.

On the other hand, I fail to see why WB would have bothered doing such an amateurish job to segue the songs at all cost when they work perfectly separately: it simply wouldn't make sense.

Do you have any info regarding whether the tracks were segued into one another at the time, and if so by whom (Prince? W&L?)

imprimis said:

rdhull said:

bam

.

Respectfully going to have to disagree strongly here. RHG uses CMI Fairlight, which he hadn't been acquainted with prior to April 1985. OD featured a Katayama/Coleman/etc string arrangement, but Clare Fischer's work is one of the most prominent features of the version featured here (and one of the identifiable signatures of P's Parade and post-Parade era work). That he referred these embellishments to the personnel he used on the Purple Rain album should be a strong indication that no substantial working relationship with Fischer had yet been formed (he referred 'Screams of Passion' in the Fall of '84 or Winter/Spring of '85, more likely the latter, as a test case).

.

Both songs, naturally, follow the same skeletal structure and length of the June 7 1984 First Avenue show, and retain most of Linn/Bobby Z drum track from that mobile studio-recorded performance, as well as most of Matt Fink's DX7 work (train whistle, etc), and a small amount of P's original lead vocals for RHG (in the background, or as pretend 'ad libs').

.

From the sound of the original live performance, which forms an absolute 'de minimus' basis of these studio reworked versions, taken from the standpoint of 1984-era Prince, one would expect something more along the lines of what was done with 'I Would Die 4 U' as the intended result. It is difficult to imagine that P would have envisioned or preordained these fortuitous and peculiar '85-'86-era sound changes so far ahead of time, and yet not significantly reflect those changes in other released work recorded around this time (much of what would become ATWIAD, 'The Dance of Electric', 100 MPH, etc), nor approximated (within the limits of the technology) in the unpolished live performance itself. If one wanted to say that he was already anticipating these very specific changes, it would require an unusually charitable, literary-critic-esque argument of his evolving artistry. I'm interested in the reality here, not a Village Voice pop cultural study. (This is a general statement, and not directed at madhouseman, whose work we should all appreciate)

.

It also concerns me that an 'instrumental version of WDC' may reflect confusion by the interviewees with 'Traffic Jam'; WDC most likely was conceived as an elaboration of and improvement on the same ideas (and follows a similar structure and production technique) to 'Traffic Jam', recorded only days earlier, for prospective use during the train chase/outtake montage sequence (which scene/montage happens to begin with a traffic pileup), at the request of the director.

.

The talk about different versions on this forum is rather silly (when it doesn't refer to an outtake known to exist), as a virtually infinite number of lengths and mixes could be assembled from the basic tracks of such complex studio efforts as WDC, incorporating many tapes' and channels' worth of different/alternate or unused vocal takes or instrumental parts. This would be true of a large portion of his 1980s studio work. Probably everything but his simplest and most down-to-earth (or most heavily programmed/sequenced) songs could be extended or cut 1,000 different ways, using nothing but what was recorded during the original session(s).

.

[Edited 5/12/17 16:57pm]

Interesting discussion. Madhouseman and Imprimis, you seem to have reached very different conclusions about the genesis of the released track. What do you base your assumptions on? It seems that perhaps Madhouseman's ideas are based on documents and witness accounts, while imprimis's conclusions are based on analysis of production technique and the equipment used. Is that correct?

Would have been nice to have Traffic Jam officially out, we have a pretty good version thats out anyway, but having The Dance Electric full version on it ( and the track Love And Sex I have been dying to hear) is at least fine enough. Traffic Jam is at least in good enough quality for loud listens.

paulludvig said:

.[Edited 5/12/17 16:57pm]

Interesting discussion. Madhouseman and Imprimis, you seem to have reached very different conclusions about the genesis of the released track. What do you base your assumptions on? It seems that perhaps Madhouseman's ideas are based on documents and witness accounts, while imprimis's conclusions are based on analysis of production technique and the equipment used. Is that correct?

.
With the additional information madhouseman has provided, which has never previously been widely available, it seems the orchestration on 'Our Destiny' is Lisa Coleman and mostly hired session players, rather than Clare Fischer. However, 'Roadhouse Garden' features production methods that would not have been part of a 1984 Prince's toolkit. This is presumably the version as it was last worked on in 1986 (and perhaps best reflected in the leak that occurred last year); there are suspicions that the W&L vocals may have been added much later (1997-99, or even recently), or were 'reintegrated' due to being from a different source and take (a copy of a multitrack in W&L's own possession) from the version of RHG decided to include on this set (or a digital or tape of the parts of tracks they were e-mailing/snailmailing to complete these songs, from sometime in the late 1990s to mid 2000's).

.

[Edited 5/15/17 9:39am]