highcalonic said:

PurpleMedley122 said:

Listened to the official version and the bootleg of the two songs side by side, and there is no difference.

There is a difference on Roadhouse Garden. On the bootleg version i got, only Prince's vocals are in there. In the WB version, there's wendy's vocal on it and there some more production added (some delays and echoes on the voice for example).

You are right.

But the win feels empty when an official release is sourcing from subpar quality tapes. I'm not an audio engineer, and am well aware of the criticism of the Crystal Ball set, but to my novice ears the outtakes sounded great. I had no qualms about sound quality. The sound quality of some of these new outtakes is well below that standard, which was Prince's. If an unreleased song doesn't sound at least as good as what was on Crystal Ball, again, Prince's personal standard, I'm going to be disappointed. Material that is of lesser quality should come with a disclaimer, and be treated like a bootleg.

We're talkin' of "vault releases".

I have official "vault releases" by Hendrix, Miles Davis, Bowie and many others where the sound quality is far far far well below the standard, worst of many bootlegs I own.

BoraBora said:

aalloca said:

OUttakes are outtakes......

I am not sure what is going on this board. we go from crazy posts to splitting hairs on sifi.

more people are more concerned with with him being wrong or not in the know, than we are getting some cool shit from vault.

Perfect no.........

But hell my first copy of last heart had a skip, witness #1 sounded like a walkmen was used to record it.

Prince was difficult, his engineering of sound was not perfect, shit his last 10 albums were brickwalled and compressed to high hell.

All of a sudden everyone is a sound engineer with a $1milion dollar B&W abbey road setup.

try to enjoy the music. the emotion and feeling.

shit look at the beatles...... we had fake stereo, 87 cd's, anthology, and recently mono box set, and now deluxe sgt peppers...... love was done amazing by gilles martin but that was what 40 yrs later.

Unless you only use lossless 96/24 or 192hz sampling rates with pure analog signal path's let's not get nuts.

This generation listens to mp3/mp4 which are 1/3 to 1/4 the original information with beats headphones. let's keep it in perspective.

We got vault tracks...... last night I got a fng email that said our destiny/roadhouse gardent is ready to download. that's a big fng win for prince fans.

Indeed to all of this^^^^^

The Org is just being miserable as usual. Man...I dig a lot of y'all...But yeah....Sometimes I'm like FUCK this place....lol

[Edited 5/12/17 9:09am]

darkroman said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

BoraBora said:

We're talkin' of "vault releases".

I have official "vault releases" by Hendrix, Miles Davis, Bowie and many others where the sound quality is far far far well below the standard, worst of many bootlegs I own.

But my point is Prince had already set a standard for how his vault releases should sound, and that should be respected.

Well, to my ears "Little Red Corvette" is marred by sound issue but this didn't stop P to release it as it was.

But the question isn't if P would have release this according to the sound quality....

... the real question is: "If this is the best sound quality version available of a song, better let it in the vault without releasing and maybe released a musically worst tune only because of the sound quality?!?"

To be clear in what I'm sayin', gimme everyday the actual un-perfect "Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden" instead of a sonic marvellous "state of the art sound" "Poom Poom".

KeithyT said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

rdhull said: [Snip - luv4u] This is very clearly in awful quality.

Yes rd, what you putting in your ears?

Someone obvious jizzed in my ears and not on my face. I was cheated! Thats like they fucked me with no goodbye and no kiss. I need to be more discerning with whom I choose to lay with.

BoraBora said:

Okay. It sounds great on Karman and Bose. However, I can state that on another site if you will, someone we all know and love and respect regarding sound, prince, etc stated in no uncertain terms a while ago that all Prince turned in was the PR remaster. No extras. So yes, some of you are probably correct in assuming that Prnce did not submit a lot of the extra material if any. So like you guys are stating, where did the material come from then? Yes, it may be booted material updated or fixed blah blah blah. But Im just saying..to ME..they sound good. Now, I have some of the boots out there that were of the top quality that could be resourced, and some of them I obviously dont or have not heard. But either way it sounds aight to me but I also been cheated and have someones cum in my ears instead of my face so there's also that ...

I'm finally listening on headphones, and while I understand the audiophiles' complaints about the quality, I personally find it good enough to enjoy. If the complaint is that it doesn't sound much better than past bootleg versions, well... I think you've all been spoiled by some damn fine bootlegs And as I've said before, some of Prince's official 80's releases didn't sound a whole lot better than this, so I think you can all live with this.

There's a big audible difference between released recordings which haven't been subject to "perfect" engineering (Todd Rundgren's another one, Prince's teenage idol, who could never be accused of most of his albums being audiophile experiences) and something which is at best a third generation copy.

This is the point.

murph said:

aalloca said:

OUttakes are outtakes......

I am not sure what is going on this board. we go from crazy posts to splitting hairs on sifi.

more people are more concerned with with him being wrong or not in the know, than we are getting some cool shit from vault.

Perfect no.........

But hell my first copy of last heart had a skip, witness #1 sounded like a walkmen was used to record it.

Prince was difficult, his engineering of sound was not perfect, shit his last 10 albums were brickwalled and compressed to high hell.

All of a sudden everyone is a sound engineer with a $1milion dollar B&W abbey road setup.

try to enjoy the music. the emotion and feeling.

shit look at the beatles...... we had fake stereo, 87 cd's, anthology, and recently mono box set, and now deluxe sgt peppers...... love was done amazing by gilles martin but that was what 40 yrs later.

Unless you only use lossless 96/24 or 192hz sampling rates with pure analog signal path's let's not get nuts.

This generation listens to mp3/mp4 which are 1/3 to 1/4 the original information with beats headphones. let's keep it in perspective.

We got vault tracks...... last night I got a fng email that said our destiny/roadhouse gardent is ready to download. that's a big fng win for prince fans.

Indeed to all of this^^^^^

The Org is just being miserable as usual. Man...I dig a lot of y'all...But yeah....Sometimes I'm like FUCK this place....lol

[Edited 5/12/17 9:09am]

Murph said it right, I think. I believe that after the painfully slow recording of FOR YOU - where Prince obsessed over every single note and sound like a Young Obsessed Brian Wilson - he realized that this approach taxed his art of vitality and passion and power. From then on he recorded FAST and FURIOUS. I think Prince the album was recorded in a few weeks, right? And Dirty Mind was essentially a collection of demos recorded in his bedroom. As opposed to FOR YOU which was a 5-6 month slog. We all know that he recorded furiously, all the time, and would quickly drop songs and recordings and move on to new projects seemingly at the drop of a hat. It's not surprising that his unreleased Vault stuff is a little under-produced and half-baked - doesn't mean they aren't great songs, though, and super interesting in their own way!!!

Roadhouse Garden,

Oh no - not my taste of a song, so monotoneus, what a disappointment

However Electric Intercourse (Studio) is excellent.... I am waiting in eager for release on June 23.

No doubt I am gonna buy the PR Expanded box, already pre-ordered on amazon. co.uk..

Holy holy fuck me right on the floor.
I mean I'm floored.

So is this to be considered the first ever of all Clare Fischer / Prince collaborations?
Or quite?

bonatoc said:

Holy holy fuck me right on the floor.
I mean I'm floored.

So is this to be considered the first ever of all Clare Fischer / Prince collaborations?
Or quite?

Not sure, but I learned this today.

One of Fischer’s Prince arrangements was also used in a revised form for the movie “Batman.” Prince’s December 2005 single “Te Amo Corazon,” a mid-tempo Latin jazz track, featured string arrangements by Fischer.

so once again..this is bootleg sourced?

luvsexy4all said:

so once again..this is bootleg sourced?

There is something up with the sound, the treble is super pushed to the point that the S's are painful.

leadline said:

luvsexy4all said:

so once again..this is bootleg sourced?

There is something up with the sound, the treble is super pushed to the point that the S's are painful.

This is very true. I don't know if bootleg sourced or simply a high generation tape however a lot of the artifacts left in OD especially lead me to believe that this recording is most likely not from the master tape directly

ForceofNature said:

leadline said:

There is something up with the sound, the treble is super pushed to the point that the S's are painful.

This is very true. I don't know if bootleg sourced or simply a high generation tape however a lot of the artifacts left in OD especially lead me to believe that this recording is most likely not from the master tape directly

but isnt this supposed to be from WB vault???

Don't overlook the awful pasting together 'segue' from songs likely at different stages of production/completion, that were originally conceived as a suite, but may never have, in the end, been meant to be released together or as a couplet on one side of a record. These reworked versions both date from 1986 (and would be better fit for a general outtake compilation or SOTT Deluxe), and RHG may have some W&L vocals done ~1997-1999 or even more recently. The added W&L vocals (along with P's) are suspect, particularly their occupying mostly the right channel, as though these were added much later (posthumously, and partially using another source/take incompatible with this one) and integrated in a way to sound 'neat' but really a cheap effort to disguise that they don't have access to the original tapes (or couldn't be bothered) to mix these in properly.

.

[Edited 5/12/17 12:55pm]

i prefer the live versions. not a fan of the studio versions at all.

Someone tweet Wendy & Lisa and get some answers

leadline said:

Some of the sounds on RG reminds me of "It".

mbdtyler said:

I'm finally listening on headphones, and while I understand the audiophiles' complaints about the quality, I personally find it good enough to enjoy. If the complaint is that it doesn't sound much better than past bootleg versions, well... I think you've all been spoiled by some damn fine bootlegs And as I've said before, some of Prince's official 80's releases didn't sound a whole lot better than this, so I think you can all live with this.

Yep, so glad I am not an audiophile and am just able to really enjoy the music without analyzing the technical aspects so much. It was never Prince's technological savy that drew me to him in the first place!

Our Destiny and Roadhouse Garden are basically the way they were recorded in May and June of 1984, with Lisa's vocals recorded on September 27, 1984 (the following day, Jill Jones also recorded her vocals for the track). As far as I can tell in the quick listen I've given to them, they are pretty much identical to what was done in 1984, with the exception of the edit, which came at a later date.

The were recorded as two seperate tracks, although they were performed together for their live premiere on June 7, 1984.

The difference in quality may stem from them being recorded at different times on different systems. Both were started at the warehouse which was not always the best place to record (Roadhouse Garden being among the first in the new warehouse), but Our Destiny was overdubbed at Sunset Sound, which could have altered the sound of the recording. I also don't know the sources of these originals that were used, but they were not meant to be blended, as you can tell from the change in quality.

Regarding some who have a problem with these being issued on the PR re-release, these were started 2 months after When Doves Cry and only days after Possessed was being edited for use in the movie, so it is still well within the range of the Purple Rain era. In fact, other tracks that are part of this CD reissue were recorded much later in 1984 (after the album and film had been released). Dance Electric was recorded on August 17, 1984, God (vocal) on August 19, 1984, and the extended version of I Would Die 4 U was recorded on October 25, 1984.

It could be argued that Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden should be placed on a deluxe version of ATWIAD, but by May/June 1984, only 2 tracks for that album had been recorded: Pop Life (February ’84) and ‘Raspberry Beret’ (April ’84). ‘Paisley Park’ (March ’84) was the title of an instrumental which had nothing in common with the song that would eventually share the name, so at this stage.

Personally, I would have saved these for a release of the Roadhouse Garden album that Prince had mentioned multiple times, but historically, they are arguably in the proper place chronologically.

I hope that helps explain this a little bit.

madhouseman said:

madhouseman said:

Our Destiny and Roadhouse Garden are basically the way they were recorded in May and June of 1984, with Lisa's vocals recorded on September 27, 1984 (the following day, Jill Jones also recorded her vocals for the track). As far as I can tell in the quick listen I've given to them, they are pretty much identical to what was done in 1984, with the exception of the edit, which came at a later date.

The were recorded as two seperate tracks, although they were performed together for their live premiere on June 7, 1984.

The difference in quality may stem from them being recorded at different times on different systems. Both were started at the warehouse which was not always the best place to record (Roadhouse Garden being among the first in the new warehouse), but Our Destiny was overdubbed at Sunset Sound, which could have altered the sound of the recording. I also don't know the sources of these originals that were used, but they were not meant to be blended, as you can tell from the change in quality.

Regarding some who have a problem with these being issued on the PR re-release, these were started 2 months after When Doves Cry and only days after Possessed was being edited for use in the movie, so it is still well within the range of the Purple Rain era. In fact, other tracks that are part of this CD reissue were recorded much later in 1984 (after the album and film had been released). Dance Electric was recorded on August 17, 1984, God (vocal) on August 19, 1984, and the extended version of I Would Die 4 U was recorded on October 25, 1984.

It could be argued that Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden should be placed on a deluxe version of ATWIAD, but by May/June 1984, only 2 tracks for that album had been recorded: Pop Life (February ’84) and ‘Raspberry Beret’ (April ’84). ‘Paisley Park’ (March ’84) was the title of an instrumental which had nothing in common with the song that would eventually share the name, so at this stage.

Personally, I would have saved these for a release of the Roadhouse Garden album that Prince had mentioned multiple times, but historically, they are arguably in the proper place chronologically.

I hope that helps explain this a little bit.

Thanks for the detailed background information on these two outtakes.

madhouseman said: