laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

Here, Here!

Once again, the harmonious voices of reason, logic and wisdom, soar gracefully over the noise of the rabble

paisleypearl said:

CooperC62057 said:

CooperC62057 said:

paisleypearl said:

Clearly there were some health issues rearing their heads...
.

Check out this interview from 2011, the 7.55 point onwards:
.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1520894974819813
.

oliviacamron said:

CooperC62057 said:

LR, I understand your position and I respect that, I truly do. I almost wish that you are able to prove that there were coexisting illness or anything else besides opiate addiction. I wish opiate addiction didn't even exist! However, you are reading me wrong. I never said anything about P giving up or being willing to die for drugs - I am referring to a conversation that could have occurred during an overdose or scare in that Tyka or other family members may have implored him to seek help. It would not have been outside the realm of possibility for him to not have recognized the seriousness of the problem or to have felt that he could handle it on his own. It happens. I could then see them desperately stressing that continued use of these pills could cause his death to which he may have replied that he was going to be fine - and if not, he had done what he had set out in life to do. I have had these conversations, LR. They happen. Hours and hours and hours of conversation with people that are smart, people that want to live. And you know what? They are in recovery - they are being treated - the dependence on opiates is not as simple as just walking away. There is a real, true, physical dependence. His doctor was delivering test results? You continue to reject that those tests could have been results that would show his system clean of opiates so that he could successfully begin the treatment with suboxone that was being brought to him. And don't tell me that no one was licensed to administer it - they weren't worried about that until after P was found dead - they were going to administer it - P would have just needed to put it on his tongue and let it dissolve - no magic science to that. I'll just agree to disagree with you.

“- I am referring to a conversation that could have occurred during an overdose or scare in that Tyka or other family members may have implored him to seek help. It would not have been outside the realm of possibility for him to not have recognized the seriousness of the problem or to have felt that he could handle it on his own. “

If he did not realize he had a problem why was he seeing Dr. S? Why has it been known to the public since he died that he was seeing Dr. S for withdrawals something that people do when they are trying to step down off of these meds. This information has never been hidden from the public.

You have no idea if a conversation took place with his family or if he just decided to do it himself. I am not even sure if consulting with his family means anything at all.

Tyka said she knew two years ago he was going to die and she still was not ready to accept it. She did not say anything about any conversations about his drug use and how he was fine with it because he had accomplished everything he needed. ( evidently he was not fine with since he was seeking help) Her response was a direct questions about coping with his death.

Maybe he was waiting for test to see if he was clear of opiates but would it really take a day to figure that out. People get drug test from urine and hair all the time. In fact the unnamed source has stated that all of the junk in those pills was ingested in the last 24 hours so bringing test results from the day before to take the suboxone would not have been very useful.

I and many others only believe no one was license to give him suboxone because the media stated this. Hazleton is right down the street from Paisley Park I am sure someone there had suboxone if that was his only issue.

Do you really think a kid who is not a doctor should be bringing drugs across state lines to administer to any patient? Do you think what Dr. K was doing was ethical or legal? I don’t think Prince knew what he was really taking and I think those test were going to inform him about a lot of things going bad with his health. I don’t know if he got bad stuff from someone on purpose or if someone just screwed up but somethings about this case make no sense whatsoever and anyone who thinks this is just some guy screwed up on drugs is looking at this thru the eyes of TMZ. Have you listed to Andrian Crutchfiled’s interview on the podcast?

Dibblekins said:

Clearly there were some health issues rearing their heads...
.

Check out this interview from 2011, the 7.55 point onwards:
.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1520894974819813
.

Yes, Vertigo can be a symptom of autoimmune diseases of which there are many. Many of which are painful, incurable, long term and will take you out of this world eventually. We just don’t know what he was dealing with. I do not believe for one minute he was taking pain pills for kicks and grins. I think he had pain and we just do not know the cause. I find it interesting that so many addiction experts do not seem interested in what caused the use of pain pills in the first place. If he no longer used pain meds and still had pain would he not still be in pain? What would have been an alternative to pain meds? Could it be true he was going to a holistic healing center later that day because he had actual pain?

I will not even get started on Eplispy. Does anyone think that Live Nation gave out free tickets without the direction of Prince ( Mr. Charitiy) Why would he want people from the Eplispy group to have free tickets? Maybe because he had or was still dealing with it.

CooperC62057 said:

laurarichardson said:

Well I think you are wrong. The question she was asked was how long did she think it would take to get over his death. She said she knew for two years and she still was not ready.

Her answer in the context of being on strung out on drugs enough so he had given up and was prepared to die from them does not make sense see he was seeing Dr. S for withdrawals which would mean he was in the process of getting off of them. He also seems to have been able to travel and work putting damm hard for someone hooked on pain pills so bad he was ready to die.

In addtion, he had given up why no will and why no seculsion and withdrawal from people?

Listen to Adrian and many other people who worked with him have said. I beleive he was using pain pills but I do not think he started to abuse them until he started to really have some pain. You do not have a doctor bring you test results unless something is really wrong and the Carver County report from 2014 and 2015 said a male was taken to the hospital for dehydration even Prince cannot force the EMTs to forge the records. He went to the hosptial for dehyrdation those two times not rehab.

I am not saying he was never in a rehab or never took pain meds.

LR, I understand your position and I respect that, I truly do. I almost wish that you are able to prove that there were coexisting illness or anything else besides opiate addiction. I wish opiate addiction didn't even exist! However, you are reading me wrong. I never said anything about P giving up or being willing to die for drugs - I am referring to a conversation that could have occurred during an overdose or scare in that Tyka or other family members may have implored him to seek help. It would not have been outside the realm of possibility for him to not have recognized the seriousness of the problem or to have felt that he could handle it on his own. It happens. I could then see them desperately stressing that continued use of these pills could cause his death to which he may have replied that he was going to be fine - and if not, he had done what he had set out in life to do. I have had these conversations, LR. They happen. Hours and hours and hours of conversation with people that are smart, people that want to live. And you know what? They are in recovery - they are being treated - the dependence on opiates is not as simple as just walking away. There is a real, true, physical dependence. His doctor was delivering test results? You continue to reject that those tests could have been results that would show his system clean of opiates so that he could successfully begin the treatment with suboxone that was being brought to him. And don't tell me that no one was licensed to administer it - they weren't worried about that until after P was found dead - they were going to administer it - P would have just needed to put it on his tongue and let it dissolve - no magic science to that. I'll just agree to disagree with you.

You have strong points and sound logic. Thanks for this. I am inclinded to agree with you and your thoughts.

The thing about secrets, paisleypearl, is that there was always — and still is — a mega-mega vested interest in projecting a mythically-perfect image and protecting brand Prince — The Pop Star^®.

The machine behind brand Prince^® was no more likely in the past to divulge it's brand secrets, than brand Coca Cola^® would reveal it's "secret recipe" — no pun intended ; د )

Not good for business, ya see!

So anybody holding their breaths for — "the whole story" — will be living the rest of their lives permenently on tenterhooks — waiting in vain for the other shoe to drop — but never getting any resolution.

The sister predicted from the time of her Entertainment Tonight interview last month, that eighteen months remained for peoples to come to terms with the reality that it took her two years to come to terms with.

Myself, I predict eighteen plus years for the vast majority of people — if ever.

Woo-Hoo-o-o-o! Somebody's been biz-ZA-Y-Y-Y! Ha-Ha-a-a-a!

And there is so much money to be made by protecting the brand.

phatphuk said:

paisleypearl said:

It's frustrating when folks say we don't know the whole story, and that they have never seen him use drugs. Am I the only one who has seen the video of the first time he played Purple Rain at 1st Ave when he came out on stage sweating profusely and had such trouble with a runny nose? I grew up when he did when coke was everywhere, and I've seen coke users aplenty.

Anybody holding onto secrets just so as not to feel the wrath of His fans is not doing anything noble by pretending to Honor His Wishes Of Privacy. His death could open a dialogue about prescription addiction, and that it isn't all about the junkie with a needle hanging out of his arm, or the woman with black meth teeth.

The thing about secrets, paisleypearl, is that there was always — and still is — a mega-mega vested interest in projecting a mythically-perfect image and protecting brand Prince — The Pop Star^®.

The machine behind brand Prince^® was no more likely in the past to divulge it's brand secrets, than brand Coca Cola^® would reveal it's "secret recipe" — no pun intended ; د )

Not good for business, ya see!

So anybody holding their breaths for — "the whole story" — will be living the rest of their lives permenently on tenterhooks — waiting in vain for the other shoe to drop — but never getting any resolution.

The sister predicted from the time of her Entertainment Tonight interview last month, that eighteen months remained for peoples to come to terms with the reality that it took her two years to come to terms with.

Myself, I predict eighteen plus years for the vast majority of people — if ever.

Woo-Hoo-o-o-o! Somebody's been biz-ZA-Y-Y-Y! Ha-Ha-a-a-a!

There will be no 18 years of waiting. If someone is brought to trial from the criminal investigation the entire file will be open to the public. In addition,some people like Mr. Crutchfield are already telling what they know and some people are just are not interested in what they have to say because it does not fit the narravtive that some people want.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

phatphuk said:

paisleypearl said:

I agree, Paisley. Just give us the facts. The legacy is intact. It always will be. A person would have had to be blind to not have seen the deterioration.

1) Maybe he did not have a drug problem two years ago and the conversation he had with Tyka has something to do with his health? Maybe the conversation he had with Apples in 2014 about jubilant Judases in his house had something to do with his health? Maybe a half a dozen people saying we do not know the whole story is some comment on his health. Remember chronic pain is a health issue.

2) “And you're right, I DONT know if any such conversation took place between Tyka and Prince and if you bother to read what I actually wrote instead of being on the defensive, you would see that I say it "could" have”

Then why bring it up at all? It is you bringing in some situation of an intervention that we have no way of knowing took place. It is a fantasy situation.

3) “I have never, ever said that P was taking these meds for the joy of it. I've always believed they began for pain relief. “

I did not state that you made any statement about him being a recreational drug user but you seem to have left out any information about his being in pain which, is happening a lot on this board. Being in pain is a health issue.

You also like most people don’t seem to have answer to what a person would do if they got off pain meds and still had pain?

4) “What boggles my mind is that you believe that he was totally clean prior to the fatal overdose, that he was in withdrawal. If that were the case, why would he even need to go? “

Well it should boggle your mind because I never said he was totally clean prior to his overdose on meds that were mislabeled and have already been established that these drugs were not in his system prior to the last 24 hours.

The truth of the matter is people don’t go under a doctor’s care for withdrawals if they do not want to get off of drugs. Being in withdrawals would mean you are withdrawing or do you think it means something else?

From what I have read patients who do these outpatient withdrawal treatments often are trying to step down there pain pill use. He could have been using the something to step down from whatever he wanted to get off of.

We do not know what P was on in Atlanta or when that plane landed in Moline. The only way to know would be to look at his medical file from the hospital. (Evidently the ME does not think it was Fentanyl because they are saying he was not a long time user and it was not in his system before the 24 hours)

We do know from Andrew’s conversation with him before he went to Atlanta that he was planning on seeing his doctor when he got back and we know he told the promoter in Atlanta the same thing because he wanted to hold off on announcing additional concerts. He was keeping in touch with Dr. S and I believe it was to monitor his progress with the withdrawals.

We don’t know what he is was doing between Saturday and Wednesday as far as drugs or legitmate Rx’s. Shit we do not even know where a so-called “gravely ill’ person went to for most of the day only returning to Paisley Park at 8:00 that night.

I would love it if you would answer may questions and stop with this defensive nonsense. There is nothing defensive about asking questions.

You also need to listen to the podcast because Mr. Crutchfield has a lot of knowledge about drug use and he did spend time working with Prince from November 2015 to February 2016. Right in the time frame that things start to change in his appearance. All total Andrew worked with Prince for four years.

How many people do you think are capable of looking someone in the face for years and not notice that they are on something?

What are the chances that dozens of people did not notice. Do you realize that estates cannot sue for defamation? That the tabs have been looking for dirt from 7 months ago and all we see his old news and nothing about drugs. Does any of this make sense to you?

CooperC62057 said:

laurarichardson said:

“- I am referring to a conversation that could have occurred during an overdose or scare in that Tyka or other family members may have implored him to seek help. It would not have been outside the realm of possibility for him to not have recognized the seriousness of the problem or to have felt that he could handle it on his own. “

If he did not realize he had a problem why was he seeing Dr. S? Why has it been known to the public since he died that he was seeing Dr. S for withdrawals something that people do when they are trying to step down off of these meds. This information has never been hidden from the public.

You have no idea if a conversation took place with his family or if he just decided to do it himself. I am not even sure if consulting with his family means anything at all.

Tyka said she knew two years ago he was going to die and she still was not ready to accept it. She did not say anything about any conversations about his drug use and how he was fine with it because he had accomplished everything he needed. ( evidently he was not fine with since he was seeking help) Her response was a direct questions about coping with his death.

Maybe he was waiting for test to see if he was clear of opiates but would it really take a day to figure that out. People get drug test from urine and hair all the time. In fact the unnamed source has stated that all of the junk in those pills was ingested in the last 24 hours so bringing test results from the day before to take the suboxone would not have been very useful.

I and many others only believe no one was license to give him suboxone because the media stated this. Hazleton is right down the street from Paisley Park I am sure someone there had suboxone if that was his only issue.

Do you really think a kid who is not a doctor should be bringing drugs across state lines to administer to any patient? Do you think what Dr. K was doing was ethical or legal? I don’t think Prince knew what he was really taking and I think those test were going to inform him about a lot of things going bad with his health. I don’t know if he got bad stuff from someone on purpose or if someone just screwed up but somethings about this case make no sense whatsoever and anyone who thinks this is just some guy screwed up on drugs is looking at this thru the eyes of TMZ. Have you listed to Andrian Crutchfiled’s interview on the podcast?

First of all, when I mentioned that perhaps he didn't feel he had a problem, I wasn't referring to the days or weeks before he passed. I was referring to perhaps 2 years prior. And you're right, I DONT know if any such conversation took place between Tyka and Prince and if you bother to read what I actually wrote instead of being on the defensive, you would see that I say it "could" have. Unless YOU were personally there, you don't know either. And if you were taking time to really read what other people have to say, you'd also know that I have never, ever said that P was taking these meds for the joy of it. I've always believed they began for pain relief. What boggles my mind is that you believe that he was totally clean prior to the fatal overdose, that he was in withdrawal. If that were the case, why would he even need to go? As for Adrien Crutchfield and the podcast, I'll listen when I have a chance and try to be objective but I don't expect him to say anything different - P wasn't actively out there telling folks he was taking pain meds. [Edited 11/22/16 9:29am]

1) Maybe he did not have a drug problem two years ago and the conversation he had with Tyka has something to do with his health? Maybe the conversation he had with Apples in 2014 about jubilant Judases in his house had something to do with his health? Maybe a half a dozen people saying we do not know the whole story is some comment on his health. Remember chronic pain is a health issue.

2) “And you're right, I DONT know if any such conversation took place between Tyka and Prince and if you bother to read what I actually wrote instead of being on the defensive, you would see that I say it "could" have”

Then why bring it up at all? It is you bringing in some situation of an intervention that we have no way of knowing took place. It is a fantasy situation.

3) “I have never, ever said that P was taking these meds for the joy of it. I've always believed they began for pain relief. “

I did not state that you made any statement about him being a recreational drug user but you seem to have left out any information about his being in pain which, is happening a lot on this board. Being in pain is a health issue.

You also like most people don’t seem to have answer to what a person would do if they got off pain meds and still had pain?

4) “What boggles my mind is that you believe that he was totally clean prior to the fatal overdose, that he was in withdrawal. If that were the case, why would he even need to go? “

Well it should boggle your mind because I never said he was totally clean prior to his overdose on meds that were mislabeled and have already been established that these drugs were not in his system prior to the last 24 hours.

The truth of the matter is people don’t go under a doctor’s care for withdrawals if they do not want to get off of drugs. Being in withdrawals would mean you are withdrawing or do you think it means something else?

From what I have read patients who do these outpatient withdrawal treatments often are trying to step down there pain pill use. He could have been using the something to step down from whatever he wanted to get off of.

We do not know what P was on in Atlanta or when that plane landed in Moline. The only way to know would be to look at his medical file from the hospital. (Evidently the ME does not think it was Fentanyl because they are saying he was not a long time user and it was not in his system before the 24 hours)

We do know from Andrew’s conversation with him before he went to Atlanta that he was planning on seeing his doctor when he got back and we know he told the promoter in Atlanta the same thing because he wanted to hold off on announcing additional concerts. He was keeping in touch with Dr. S and I believe it was to monitor his progress with the withdrawals.

We don’t know what he is was doing between Saturday and Wednesday as far as drugs or legitmate Rx’s. Shit we do not even know where a so-called “gravely ill’ person went to for most of the day only returning to Paisley Park at 8:00 that night.

I would love it if you would answer may questions and stop with this defensive nonsense. There is nothing defensive about asking questions.

You also need to listen to the podcast because Mr. Crutchfield has a lot of knowledge about drug use and he did spend time working with Prince from November 2015 to February 2016. Right in the time frame that things start to change in his appearance. All total Andrew worked with Prince for four years.

How many people do you think are capable of looking someone in the face for years and not notice that they are on something?

What are the chances that dozens of people did not notice. Do you realize that estates cannot sue for defamation? That the tabs have been looking for dirt from 7 months ago and all we see his old news and nothing about drugs. Does any of this make sense to you?

Thanks CooperC62057

For a weekend hobby project, it turned out even better — {and easier to implement} — than I ever hoped : د )

I still get a minor annoying little glint of my "Foe Listers'" noise when their posts are quoted inside my "White Listers'" posts. But the next revision will even annihilate their embedded quoted posts, out of the posts of my "White Listers" — such as from yours, TopazGirl's, paisleypearl's and others.

I mean it sincerely, when I say I can't thanks my Foes enough, for giving me the idea for this app! Oh! The irony! How sweet it is! ; د )

They have all clammed up. There must be dozens of people who know what was going on - either they knew at the time or learned after April 21 - and not a peep from anyone.

1Sasha said:

I agree, Paisley. Just give us the facts. The legacy is intact. It always will be. A person would have had to be blind to not have seen the deterioration.

There are a great many people out there who would NOT be able to accept the truth. They've all been very busy coming up with their own versions of the truth.

And there is so much money to be made by protecting the brand.

But I am also willing to acknowledge that it really IS about protecting his legacy....because people are judgemental about many many things. It's really all about the person and his musical genius and what he left for us.

They have all clammed up. There must be dozens of people who know what was going on - either they knew at the time or learned after April 21 - and not a peep from anyone.

Because they read what people are saying on the Prince FB groups and pages, and they see what's being said here. The writing is on the wall and they can see it.

1Sasha said:

They have all clammed up. There must be dozens of people who know what was going on - either they knew at the time or learned after April 21 - and not a peep from anyone.

A PRIME example of this is Lenny Kravitz. I adore Lenny and know he was very close to P. On the day of P's death, Lenny was interviewed and said something along the line that he figured this would happen....what I find curious is the fact that the ones that said even as little as that much either didn't participate in any sort of tribute or weren't invited to by the family..I have no clue which way that fell, or if it's mere coincidence....but I highly doubt it.

Mumio said:

And there is so much money to be made by protecting the brand.

But I am also willing to acknowledge that it really IS about protecting his legacy....because people are judgemental about many many things. It's really all about the person and his musical genius and what he left for us.

I agree with you. The silence is to protect Prince's legacy in my opinion. Which really I do not understand. If Prince was suffering from opiod dependency (regardless of whether it was from initial prescriptions or recreational), the family could use this to strenghen his legacy by adding another cause to rally against.

I do not see how this could hurt Prince's legacy. His genuis can not be argued amongst fans both hardcore and casual and Prince's peers.

If anything, his struggles could help fight this growing epidimic this country is facing. Just my 2 cents.

precioux said:

1Sasha said:

They have all clammed up. There must be dozens of people who know what was going on - either they knew at the time or learned after April 21 - and not a peep from anyone.

A PRIME example of this is Lenny Kravitz. I adore Lenny and know he was very close to P. On the day of P's death, Lenny was interviewed and said something along the line that he figured this would happen....what I find curious is the fact that the ones that said even as little as that much either didn't participate in any sort of tribute or weren't invited to by the family..I have no clue which way that fell, or if it's mere coincidence....but I highly doubt it.

I doubt it too. Lenny Kravitz may have had to get it off his chest. People deal with things differently. Prince's inner camp will maintain their silence. They have all along in the past.

I do not think it is coincidence either, but Manuela made remarks in regards to Charlie Sheen comparison with Prince and she was still invited.

The family has kept this tightly sealed. I believe over time, some will talk. I do not see Kirk or Meron talking, nor Tyka.