nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

deerpath said: -- John Nelson had a will and Duane was not included and the sibs made sure to let the court know he was not related to John. John never adopted Duane so I don't see how the girls could inherit anything from Prince as the have no legal or blood tie to him.

According to the Heirs arguemnet that was filed today, John L's will was never signed, it was only a draft. They are arguing that since it was only a draft, it has no legal bearing since it was not witnessed or signed.

The Heirs are also arguing that there is no biological or adoptive legal procedure to John L. They are saying behaviour alone is not legal standing. Plus, Brianna and VN have already admitted there is not any biological or adoptive procedures in their submissions and claims.

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

tmo1965 said:

nelcp777 said:

PRN & Mani's divorce (Star Tribune case attached.)

http://pa.courts.state.mn...fault.aspx

the case number (27-FA-06-3597)


PRNs Probate Case

http://www.mncourts.gov/I...elson.aspx




That filing was fast. I just checked earlier this morning and it wasn't there. I'll have to look at that later myself.

I saw the information in your post, morningsong, so I signed up for emails in the probate case. I have to say, when the confirmation of my subscription came through in my email, I felt like I was violating Prince's privacy. I have never felt that before. I have been asking for the autopsy report over and over and over again. But this ... I don't know. Maybe seeing "Prince Rogers Nelson, Deceased" caught me off guard for some reason.

tmo1965 said:

nelcp777 said:

According to the Heirs arguemnet that was filed today, John L's will was never signed, it was only a draft. They are arguing that since it was only a draft, it has no legal bearing since it was not witnessed or signed.

The Heirs are also arguing that there is no biological or adoptive legal procedure to John L. They are saying behaviour alone is not legal standing. Plus, Brianna and VN have already admitted there is not any biological or adoptive procedures in their submissions and claims.

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

You are correct, in the draft will, Duane was listed as a son. And I will agree, there appeared to be some sort of fatherly-son relationship. The Heirs are claiming John L never supported Duane financially. In addition, they are claiming John L was not part of Duane's younger years. I do not know anybody. I have no clue why John L would put his name on the BC. Perhaps it was out of love for Vivian (the mother) or to make her not look bad (all her children on BCs have 1 father, not 2). I do not know. It is puzzling a little.

According to the Heirs arguement, Duane's father is not John L and they even listed a name. I am agreement with many orgers, just do a DNA test. If there is a match on the paternal side, then solved. If not, remove Simmons, Brianna and VN and proceed with the estate closing.

The Heirs claims that the obituary is heresay and nothing legal. I guess I can understand to a point, as the orbituary does not have to necessary contain factual information.

I agree that back in the day, the BC and death certificates would be evidentary enough (I am not a lawyer at all), but it is appearant the Heirs are trying to fight this, and in an expeditious mannner.

As far as the brother relationship, the Heirs are saying that does not matter. The law of decendents are based on paternal and maternal relationships. Since Vivian is not the mother of Prince, Duane, would be ruled out if John L is not the father. That is the headache.

If the courts rule in the favor of Brianna, VN and Simmons, then that will set a precedent that behavioral relationships are legal.

That would create massive claims. Not just for Prince's estate, but for the masses. Just think, your child has a friend, you treat that friend as though it is your child while the child is in your presence. When you pass, do you feel that child should have a cut of your estate?

I ask that only for conversation reasons, not trying to be facetious or a jerk.

tmo1965 said:

nelcp777 said:

According to the Heirs arguemnet that was filed today, John L's will was never signed, it was only a draft. They are arguing that since it was only a draft, it has no legal bearing since it was not witnessed or signed.

The Heirs are also arguing that there is no biological or adoptive legal procedure to John L. They are saying behaviour alone is not legal standing. Plus, Brianna and VN have already admitted there is not any biological or adoptive procedures in their submissions and claims.

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

Within the court documents Duane's biological father is named, so yes, everyone knows who he is and it wasn't John L.

1Sasha said:

I saw the information in your post, morningsong, so I signed up for emails in the probate case. I have to say, when the confirmation of my subscription came through in my email, I felt like I was violating Prince's privacy. I have never felt that before. I have been asking for the autopsy report over and over and over again. But this ... I don't know. Maybe seeing "Prince Rogers Nelson, Deceased" caught me off guard for some reason.

I haven't subscibed to the emails and I won't be. I feel the need to know why and if I going to get any satisfying answers I have to read some of this stuff for myself, which is why I'm hanging out here, otherwise I wouldn't normally be doing this at all.

Wasn't Prince executor of his father's estate? And part of the decision that Duane Sr. was not family? Duane was alive at the time so it had to have been a bit tough. If Prince did not consider Duane a relative then, why would he be now?

If I have the story in order and not missing something.

laurarichardson said:

tmo1965 said:

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

-- Back on the estate 2 or 3 I thought John did not have a will someone came on and said he did and it was found in Prince's belongings. Duane received nothing from John's estate and the sibs did not list him as a sibling. The burden of proof should be DNA testing. Anyone can have their name slapped on a birth certificate. If the they don't order a DNA test this opens the flood gates for anyone who is treated like a relative to inherit money. [Edited 10/18/16 11:04am]

That was me that said that about John L's will because it was attached as an Exhibit to a filed document. The siblings attorneys are stating it was not signed. I will need to go back and look.

Just looked at the Exhibits:

The 1986 will was signed by John L.

The 1989 will was not signed by John.

http://www.startribune.co...397465871/

luv4u said:

http://www.startribune.co...397465871/

.

oh dear, what a mess!!

morningsong said:

tmo1965 said:

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

Within the court documents Duane's biological father is named, so yes, everyone knows who he is and it wasn't John L.

Duane's alleged father is named in these proceedings, but that man's name appears no where in other official documents as Duane's father. In legal proceedings, official documents, such as a birth and death certificate carry more weight than 2nd and 3rd hand information.

nelcp777 said:

tmo1965 said:

John L's will was never signed, but in the draft, he did list Duane as a son. I find this whole situation to be quite interesting. John's other kids are now saying that there was no real relationship at all between Duane and their father, but there obviously was some sort of fatherly relationship there. Until recently, Tyka and Prince both claimed Duane as their brother and in Duane's obituary, John L was listed as Duane's father. John L is also listed on Duane's birth certificate and death certificate. Given all of these facts, I have to wonder whether John L was really Duane's natural father. Is it possible that John L believed that Duane might be his son, and that's why he treated Duane like a son? How do they know for sure that John L was not Duane's father? Has any dna tests ever been done?

I'm by no means a lawyer, but based on what I've read, the "clear and convincing evidence" standard could mean that the birth and death certificates, as well as obituary listings, and the draft will meets the burden of proof. Before the days of dna tests, these types of documents were all that the courts had to prove paternity.

You are correct, in the draft will, Duane was listed as a son. And I will agree, there appeared to be some sort of fatherly-son relationship. The Heirs are claiming John L never supported Duane financially. In addition, they are claiming John L was not part of Duane's younger years. I do not know anybody. I have no clue why John L would put his name on the BC. Perhaps it was out of love for Vivian (the mother) or to make her not look bad (all her children on BCs have 1 father, not 2). I do not know. It is puzzling a little.

According to the Heirs arguement, Duane's father is not John L and they even listed a name. I am agreement with many orgers, just do a DNA test. If there is a match on the paternal side, then solved. If not, remove Simmons, Brianna and VN and proceed with the estate closing.

The Heirs claims that the obituary is heresay and nothing legal. I guess I can understand to a point, as the orbituary does not have to necessary contain factual information.

I agree that back in the day, the BC and death certificates would be evidentary enough (I am not a lawyer at all), but it is appearant the Heirs are trying to fight this, and in an expeditious mannner.

As far as the brother relationship, the Heirs are saying that does not matter. The law of decendents are based on paternal and maternal relationships. Since Vivian is not the mother of Prince, Duane, would be ruled out if John L is not the father. That is the headache.

If the courts rule in the favor of Brianna, VN and Simmons, then that will set a precedent that behavioral relationships are legal.

That would create massive claims. Not just for Prince's estate, but for the masses. Just think, your child has a friend, you treat that friend as though it is your child while the child is in your presence. When you pass, do you feel that child should have a cut of your estate?

I ask that only for conversation reasons, not trying to be facetious or a jerk.

My name would not be on my child's friend's birth certificate either. In court, it does not matter whether or not a parent acted as a parent to the child. Unfortunately, there are lots of parents who are not involved in their kids' lives, but those kids can, and do, inherit from these absent parents. What counts are official documents and the law. For example, if any of John L's other children were born while John L was married to their mother, but he is known not to be the biological father, according to the law, he is the father (I know this from personal experience). The fact that he is not the biological father does not matter in court, so that child would have to be counted as an heir in this case. I know this is not the situation with Duane.

Likewise, in a court of law, the fact that John L's name is on official documents as Duane's father may be enough to declare Duane's offspring as heirs of Prince, even without a dna test.

morningsong said:

PRN & Mani's divorce (Star Tribune case attached.)

http://pa.courts.state.mn...fault.aspx

the case number (27-FA-06-3597)


PRNs Probate Case

http://www.mncourts.gov/I...elson.aspx




That filing was fast. I just checked earlier this morning and it wasn't there. I'll have to look at that later myself.

What does it say? Live outside the US, can't access it. Thanks in advance.

I have no idea how credible this Dixon guy, but does this not bother you guys??

"First of all, Mr. Dixon and Tyka Nelson both agree that Prince knew he was dying years ago. Prince filed this document three (3) months prior to his death in preparation for his death."

"TYKA NELSON INTERVIEW — OCTOBER 5, 2016

Tyka Nelson shocked the world with information that Mr. Dixon have been saying since the beginning of this Probate Matter. While everyone was mourning for Prince, Tyka Nelson, was preparing forPrince’s death for two years. More importantly, Tyka stated that she “mourned” for two years before Prince’s death even happened. When asked about it Tyka says the following: “I knew that it was coming,” she revealed. “He said it a couple of years ago. ‘I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do.’ I was crushed for about two years.”

"The question is, what did Prince do two years ago that can be construed as everything he came to do? Two years ago Prince gained back the master recordings from Warner Bros. Records, and executed an Exclusive Songwriter Agreement with NPG Music Publishing, LLC for all of his purported intellectual properties including collaborative works with others."

http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/MemoRodneyHDixon_10-17-16.pdf

Can somebody explain to me who this Dixon bloke is? Just a quick summary.

[Edited 10/18/16 17:20pm]

MMJas said:

I have no idea how credible this Dixon guy, but does this not bother you guys??

"First of all, Mr. Dixon and Tyka Nelson both agree that Prince knew he was dying years ago. Prince filed this document three (3) months prior to his death in preparation for his death."

"TYKA NELSON INTERVIEW — OCTOBER 5, 2016

Tyka Nelson shocked the world with information that Mr. Dixon have been saying since the beginning of this Probate Matter. While everyone was mourning for Prince, Tyka Nelson, was preparing forPrince’s death for two years. More importantly, Tyka stated that she “mourned” for two years before Prince’s death even happened. When asked about it Tyka says the following: “I knew that it was coming,” she revealed. “He said it a couple of years ago. ‘I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do.’ I was crushed for about two years.”

"The question is, what did Prince do two years ago that can be construed as everything he came to do? Two years ago Prince gained back the master recordings from Warner Bros. Records, and executed an Exclusive Songwriter Agreement with NPG Music Publishing, LLC for all of his purported intellectual properties including collaborative works with others."

http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/MemoRodneyHDixon_10-17-16.pdf

Can somebody explain to me who this Dixon bloke is? Just a quick summary.

[Edited 10/18/16 17:20pm]

In answer to your question concerning P and Mani divorce, we won't hear anything until 11/14/16.

Concerning the question about Dixon, He hasn't mentioned Tyka in his filings proir to this one.

Bremer has asked the Judge to deem his claim as frivolous. He has been doing this for years and

has been dismissed. Pretty much a fruit loop.

tmo1965 said:

zenarose said:

MMJas said:

I have no idea how credible this Dixon guy, but does this not bother you guys??

"First of all, Mr. Dixon and Tyka Nelson both agree that Prince knew he was dying years ago. Prince filed this document three (3) months prior to his death in preparation for his death."

"TYKA NELSON INTERVIEW — OCTOBER 5, 2016

Tyka Nelson shocked the world with information that Mr. Dixon have been saying since the beginning of this Probate Matter. While everyone was mourning for Prince, Tyka Nelson, was preparing forPrince’s death for two years. More importantly, Tyka stated that she “mourned” for two years before Prince’s death even happened. When asked about it Tyka says the following: “I knew that it was coming,” she revealed. “He said it a couple of years ago. ‘I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do.’ I was crushed for about two years.”

"The question is, what did Prince do two years ago that can be construed as everything he came to do? Two years ago Prince gained back the master recordings from Warner Bros. Records, and executed an Exclusive Songwriter Agreement with NPG Music Publishing, LLC for all of his purported intellectual properties including collaborative works with others."

http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/MemoRodneyHDixon_10-17-16.pdf

Can somebody explain to me who this Dixon bloke is? Just a quick summary.

[Edited 10/18/16 17:20pm]

In answer to your question concerning P and Mani divorce, we won't hear anything until 11/14/16.

Concerning the question about Dixon, He hasn't mentioned Tyka in his filings proir to this one.

Bremer has asked the Judge to deem his claim as frivolous. He has been doing this for years and

has been dismissed. Pretty much a fruit loop.

Thanks.

Concerning Dixon: isn't it expensive to keep going at it like this? Jeez!

MMJas said:

zenarose said:

In answer to your question concerning P and Mani divorce, we won't hear anything until 11/14/16.

Concerning the question about Dixon, He hasn't mentioned Tyka in his filings proir to this one.

Bremer has asked the Judge to deem his claim as frivolous. He has been doing this for years and

has been dismissed. Pretty much a fruit loop.

Thanks.

Concerning Dixon: isn't it expensive to keep going at it like this? Jeez!

I'm sure it's costing a chunk!! But I believe his brother is an attorney. ( not positive)

MMJas said:

I have no idea how credible this Dixon guy, but does this not bother you guys??

"First of all, Mr. Dixon and Tyka Nelson both agree that Prince knew he was dying years ago. Prince filed this document three (3) months prior to his death in preparation for his death."

"TYKA NELSON INTERVIEW — OCTOBER 5, 2016

Tyka Nelson shocked the world with information that Mr. Dixon have been saying since the beginning of this Probate Matter. While everyone was mourning for Prince, Tyka Nelson, was preparing forPrince’s death for two years. More importantly, Tyka stated that she “mourned” for two years before Prince’s death even happened. When asked about it Tyka says the following: “I knew that it was coming,” she revealed. “He said it a couple of years ago. ‘I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do.’ I was crushed for about two years.”

"The question is, what did Prince do two years ago that can be construed as everything he came to do? Two years ago Prince gained back the master recordings from Warner Bros. Records, and executed an Exclusive Songwriter Agreement with NPG Music Publishing, LLC for all of his purported intellectual properties including collaborative works with others."

http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/MemoRodneyHDixon_10-17-16.pdf

Can somebody explain to me who this Dixon bloke is? Just a quick summary.

[Edited 10/18/16 17:20pm]

It's quite the story, isn't it? I'm reading through it still.

tmo1965 said:

morningsong said:

Within the court documents Duane's biological father is named, so yes, everyone knows who he is and it wasn't John L.

Duane's alleged father is named in these proceedings, but that man's name appears no where in other official documents as Duane's father. In legal proceedings, official documents, such as a birth and death certificate carry more weight than 2nd and 3rd hand information

John L was not married to Vivian at the time of Duane's birth, and just because his name appears to be on the birth certificate does not mean he is the legal father. Paternity would have to be established in a court of law prior to John L's passing for him to be Duane's legal father.

Vee0319 said:

tmo1965 said:

My name would not be on my child's friend's birth certificate either. In court, it does not matter whether or not a parent acted as a parent to the child. Unfortunately, there are lots of parents who are not involved in their kids' lives, but those kids can, and do, inherit from these absent parents. What counts are official documents and the law. For example, if any of John L's other children were born while John L was married to their mother, but he is known not to be the biological father, according to the law, he is the father (I know this from personal experience). The fact that he is not the biological father does not matter in court, so that child would have to be counted as an heir in this case. I know this is not the situation with Duane.

Likewise, in a court of law, the fact that John L's name is on official documents as Duane's father may be enough to declare Duane's offspring as heirs of Prince, even without a dna test.

I am so cynical that I went back into the documents to see if the font for John's name on Duane's birth certificate looked different in any way from the rest of the typing on the document. It looks the same but does not seem to be in bold type like the rest of it. However I have a new question for any one at all that may be from Minnesota. I noticed that there is an additional form that was signed by VN's parents (Duane Jr. and Jeannine Halloran). It seems to be supplemental to the birth certificate called the Minnesota Voluntary Recognition of Parentage. Is this form standard practice for all birth certificates or just for unmarried parents? the form seems to be what makes the parentage legal. The reason I ask is the form for Duane Sr. was not included with the Birth Certificate submission so who knows if John L signed it. But the birth certificate should not matter cause the Gil's already stated they are not related to John L. Ugh! [Edited 10/18/16 18:30pm]

The Parentage Form is for unmarried parents. It is relatively new in the legal world (within the past 20 years) so this form was not available at the time of Duane's birth. It is an acknowledgement of paternity. However, since the parents are not married you still have to be recognized in a Court of Law that you are the legal father.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PRINCE_ESTATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The Associated Press is also reporting on the desire of Tyka and the 5 half-siblings to have the claims of heirship by Brianna and Victoria Nelson dismissed by Judge Eide. A hearing is set for Friday.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

OMG, this is all so

Interesting that John L. (P's dad) also didn't have a will or any estate plan.

I signed up for email notifications about the estate.

MMJas said:

MMJas said:

zenarose said: