rogifan said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

A little off topic, but I remember you saying you passed by P.Park today and saw 10 cars in the parking lot and usually there are only 2. Do you have more intel on what is happening there today?

Nope. Though someone else said they saw on Twitter that Londell was there. So I'm guessing more business stuff. Honestly I wish I was seeing 10 cars there every day. Just for piece of mind that stuff is happening. Whether it's the estate or this tribute concert, just something.

Ok, yeah I am with ya on that one!

The social phobia and stage fright mentioned in the article are often synonymous with perfectionism and being sensitive to subtle energies (he had out of body experiences sometimes while performing for christ sake!), both attributes that apply to Prince. Proves nothing but it's perfectly plausible he used things in the past.

I don't believe there's a hollywood celebrity or rock star in his/her 20's who hasn't at least experimented.

rogifan said:

Focus on when your could really notice the change in his appearance and that was recent - within the last year to 18 months. Something happened to cause that change and I'm sorry but I'm not buying it was the pills alone or he just woke up one day and decided he was going to start popping pills. As I said before look at his appearance and demeanor from say, Musicology right up to when he grew the big 'fro and started wearing less makeup. Outside of the normal aging process, which we all go through, there was no noticeable change. I could post lots of photos where he looked beautiful and healthy as ever. Even when he first started growing out the 'fro he still looked great and healthy. Seems to me either the use of pills was more recent or something else was going on and perhaps why he got into the pills in the first place.

I agree with you 100% about the change, but 'm not sure it means that. The pain was by all accounts quite a longstanding issue, and so could the pain management have been. There is something about Tavis S's comments about that conversation they had on the roof in Montreux after MJ's passing that made me think that one of the things that really freaked P was the parallel dependency issue...it may be the case that the rapid deterioration was the result of a cumulative effect..he was battering his body, both with the performing and what he was doing to keep on performing, and at a certain point his body stopped being able to take it...as ppl have said, longterm painkiller use will do nasty stuff to you...

kmama07 said:

sonshin de said:

Someone should have been with him. Someone who could administer Narcan if necessary. That was my first thought after we knew how he died, and t keeps coming back to that. People knew he was in crisis. He od'd days before. Especially if someone with knowledge of that was also someone who was helping him get pills they for sure should have had a safety net in place. [Edited 8/22/16 22:52pm]

Like everyone here, I am deeply saddened by his passing and troubled by the news of drug use /possible abuse /dependency, etc. However, what happened to the concept of personal accountability for one's actions? Yes, he was in crisis and shouldn't have been left alone. Yes, no one should have been pounding the pavement for him to supply him with illegal prescriptions drugs. However, no matter who it was or even if he/she /they would have decided to stop helping to procure the drugs, he would have found someone else who would. It's the nature of the beast/addiction. Having been an addict (and now 14 yrs sober) I can say this from experience. I was fully functioning, great job, family, money, etc., but if anyone or anything stood in my way of obtaining what I thought I needed ... They /it were cut off and out replaced by "yes men". This included doctors. Everyone has a price and he certainly could afford it. Before anyone comes down on me... I AM NOT SAYING HE WAS A JUNKIE LOSER... BLAH BLAH BLAH. I am saying he was human, and like me (and others like me), I don't believe he chose to become dependant /addicted. However, once he did, it was hard to shake the addiction. And unfortunately he lost the battle. Again, through his own choices. Breaks my heart.

1st congrats on your sobriety, I've been sober for over 20 now

2nd - we don't know if Prince was an addict or dependent on opiates, so let's not assume. I am sure you must be familiar with the saying that labeling a person an addict/alcoholic does not make it so.

Yes, some of his behavior seems as if it could be addiction. It also could be physical dependence (much different) as well as being tired of suffering from constant pain.

Sadly, there seems to be no way to know for sure.

I'd also like to mention that addiction is a mental illness in the same 'class' as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, MPD, etc. As such, it is darn near impossible for an addict/alcoholic to make 'sane' decisions while they are under the influence and just as someone with Bipolar does not realize they're acting manic, it is the same for an addict.

I'd strongly suggest that anyone who is interested in this subject (addiction is a mental illness) educate themselves about it.

IMHO, it is time for society to come out of the dark ages of believing that it is a moral issue, a choice, or similar lines of thought.

Also happy to post some links if anyone wants them.

Peace.

Was he murdered?

herb4 said:

Christ on a cracker. Fuck this insane bullshit. I'm taking a break.

You frantic phone posters who write shit I can't even read or parse, the cryptic drive by types, the ones claiming to know inside shit, the "just say 'no" and "All drugs are bad" people, the ones so invested in thier hero that to admit he had a drug problem is tentamount to blasphemy, and the rest who refuse to believe the facts that almost entirely and logically explain about 95% of what really happened have worn me right the fuck out.

Even if they catch the person who sold him the hot pills, half of you maniacs won't believe it anyway and will likely claim that whoever they wind up prosecuting is just a fall guy used to cover up for law enforcement, doctors and the "real murderer".

Too many of you have lost your motherfucking minds over this. I'm sad he's gone too but i mean god damn. I used to think that arguing over whether MPLSound was good or not was tiring but, god damn, these last two threads have been absolutely off the chain with nonsensical bullshit.

But remember this, laurarichardson would have you believe Prince on a drug like fentanyl would have wound up like Johnny Depp from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Or something similar.

It's so much bullshit in so many people's necks it's incredible.

jayseajay said:

rogifan said:

Focus on when your could really notice the change in his appearance and that was recent - within the last year to 18 months. Something happened to cause that change and I'm sorry but I'm not buying it was the pills alone or he just woke up one day and decided he was going to start popping pills. As I said before look at his appearance and demeanor from say, Musicology right up to when he grew the big 'fro and started wearing less makeup. Outside of the normal aging process, which we all go through, there was no noticeable change. I could post lots of photos where he looked beautiful and healthy as ever. Even when he first started growing out the 'fro he still looked great and healthy. Seems to me either the use of pills was more recent or something else was going on and perhaps why he got into the pills in the first place.

I agree with you 100% about the change, but 'm not sure it means that. The pain was by all accounts quite a longstanding issue, and so could the pain management have been. There is something about Tavis S's comments about that conversation they had on the roof in Montreux after MJ's passing that made me think that one of the things that really freaked P was the parallel dependency issue...it may be the case that the rapid deterioration was the result of a cumulative effect..he was battering his body, both with the performing and what he was doing to keep on performing, and at a certain point his body stopped being able to take it...as ppl have said, longterm painkiller use will do nasty stuff to you...

i have been thinking about the way he looked in the last few years, in addition to being thin, no thinner than a few other times in his life imo, his face looked different. back in the day and all through his career, he sometimes dressed more like a woman than a man, but he still was viral and masculine, very much so, to the point that pretty much every female that ever saw him lusted for him. he would have on full make up and heels and a belly shirt with a chain around his hips, but he soemhow was still all man and happy to advertise it. i feel like that is the part that disappeared in the last few years, even though he had the natural hair and eyebrows, the bone structure of his face looked more feminine, and he completely stopped with the awesome tailored suits in favor of stretchy sparkly matching loungewear. i don't think those changes have anything to do with age, i know lots of men that are in the 50's and are still very masculine in their demeanor and appearance. to me his entire persona was now femalish. not sure if anyone else see's this, but i wonder if he had some type of facial surgery that may have led to a drug problem?

rkayla said:

morningsong said:

morningsong said: Fentanyl is cheeap, cheaper than most other substances. I've read dealers have been know to brag about ods because it shows how powerful their product is.

I saw this same Billboard article and did feel some vindication for Prince. It proves what we've all been saying from the start. HE WASN'T AN ADDICT. He also hasn't been the only one to die from a Fentanyl overdose when they thought they were taking a weaker pain medication. The more I'm learning about this whole situation the more awful it is. If you suffer from chronic pain, you get to a point where you're willing to try something from one of the million online pharmacies out there. There were a few times when I came close to purchasing something online for severe migraines but I was too afraid that I wouldn't get what I was paying for. I believe I read either in the Billboard article or another article that when he was tested in Moline there was no fentanyl in his system but it was an overdose of something else (I believe it was Percocet but since I can't remember the source...don't quote me on that). My heart keeps breaking with every new story because it's so obvious that it wasn't his time and this should have never happened.

I don't understand how you're reading this. He wasn't addicted to fentanyl, but he ended up taking fentanyl because he was addicted to hydrocodone/oxycodone. Someone who doesn't have a serious opiate dependency doesn't end up taking unregulated street pain pills that have been laced with a whole load of evil shit. Prince was addicted to opiates. That's not a judgement, and it's not a weakness, and it's not a moral failing. It happened, because he was managing pain, and he became dependent. And all this quibbling about the difference between dependency and addiction is actually BS that only needs to be entertained because people have a moral problem with the idea of addiction, and think that if we call it dependecy that makes it palatable. It doesn't matter, a dependency is an addiction and an addiction is a dependency in that you have to take the drugs otherwise you go into withdrawal and that feels like absolute hell. We don't need to pussyfoot around the fact he had an addiction in order to feel absolute undying compassion for him.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:02pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Was he murdered?

No.

NinaB said:

I call bullshit on social anxiety/phobia.

It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Have these people ever looked at his tour schedule?? Ppl with stage fright do not design their lives to be on stage 150 nights a year, they do not play 2 and sometimes 3 gigs in a night, and they don't look like they are in their absolute favourite place on earth while they're doing it. It's such utter bollocks.

jayseajay said:

jayseajay said:

NinaB said:

I call bullshit on social anxiety/phobia.

i do to, everyone got some excuse these days, we went through millions of years without having add, restless foot syndrome, social anxiety drugs no one needs em. I used to be shy when i was young, i got over it without all that shit. And Prince? I never thought he would do those kinds of drugs. I remember hearing Trent Reznor whining about having that syndrome and saying it made him not want to make music or something, bullshit. D'angelo had some bullshit excuse too. Prince, alone, drugs or no drugs still brought his a game, and if you hate his albums, he still brought his a game live.

fortuneandserendipity said:

The social phobia and stage fright mentioned in the article are often synonymous with perfectionism and being sensitive to subtle energies (he had out of body experiences sometimes while performing for christ sake!), both attributes that apply to Prince. Proves nothing but it's perfectly plausible he used things in the past.

I don't believe there's a hollywood celebrity or rock star in his/her 20's who hasn't at least experimented.

Prince loved performaing, you don't do after shows and encores if you hate it. the man loved and lived for being on stage. the only time he may have been that bad off was when he was a rookie performer, which is normal.

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

The social phobia and stage fright mentioned in the article are often synonymous with perfectionism and being sensitive to subtle energies (he had out of body experiences sometimes while performing for christ sake!), both attributes that apply to Prince. Proves nothing but it's perfectly plausible he used things in the past.

I don't believe there's a hollywood celebrity or rock star in his/her 20's who hasn't at least experimented.

--- Who the fuck outside of the stupid daily mail ever said Prince had stage frieht!!! He did after shows he did not even have to do. Does that make sense to you? To do additional shows when you have stage fright. Will being high off your ass make you a better performer? Why do you think the tabloids don't ever talk to Morris Day or Andre Cymone people who performed with him from junior high. Because they know they are going to get called on their bullshit.

Did you not read what Chris Moon said about his first recording session? Do you also not realise many performers are afflicted with stage fright? Don't you think it may have been a possibility. I only said he was a perfectionist and sensitive to subtle energies. But I also believe those attributes are not neurotypical, and talented artists like Prince perceive the world and people very differently. You do realise that Beatles and Bob Dylan were often high when performing. And they did it purposely to play better.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

I don't understand how you're reading this. He wasn't addicted to fentanyl, but he ended up taking fentanyl because he was addicted to hydrocodone/oxycodone. Someone who doesn't have a serious opiate dependency doesn't end up taking unregulated street pain pills that have been laced with a whole load of evil shit. Prince was addicted to opiates. That's not a judgement, and it's not a weakness, and it's not a moral failing. It happened, because he was managing pain, and he became dependent. And all this quibbling about the difference between dependency and addiction is actually BS that only needs to be entertained because people have a moral problem with the idea of addiction, and think that if we call it dependecy that makes it palatable. It doesn't matter, a dependency is an addiction and an addiction is a dependency in that you have to take the drugs otherwise you go into withdrawal and that feels like absolute hell. We don't need to pussyfoot around the fact he had an addiction in order to feel absolute undying compassion for him.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:02pm]

-- They are reading it the correct way. The media tried to make him out to be some rock star druggie and pull down his character. Now everyone is starting to see the real picture about pain meds and addiction. Prince was openly against drugs if you do not see him being painted as a druggie by the media as a problem you are missing something. It can help a lot of people in pain if these fake pills get taken off the streets and if we start look at other ways to manage pain. I mean people who sprain ankles are being Fentynal!! Does that really seem okay.

It really depends what media you read. Most of the broadsheet reporting has been incredibly respectful and straightforward about it. And I wasn't responding to the question of what whatever muchraking tabloid papers are saying about him being a druggie or otherwise, I was responding to the statement 'HE WAS NOT AN ADDICT.' He was an addict. The point I was making was about ppl not being able to accept that because they have moral judgments about what being an addict means. And no, the way pain pills have been being described in th US is not okay, and the results of it are horrifying, and the fact it claimed the life of someone so irreplacable makes me want to murder whatever Big Pharma ass decided to start pushing opiates like candy.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

I don't understand how you're reading this. He wasn't addicted to fentanyl, but he ended up taking fentanyl because he was addicted to hydrocodone/oxycodone. Someone who doesn't have a serious opiate dependency doesn't end up taking unregulated street pain pills that have been laced with a whole load of evil shit. Prince was addicted to opiates. That's not a judgement, and it's not a weakness, and it's not a moral failing. It happened, because he was managing pain, and he became dependent. And all this quibbling about the difference between dependency and addiction is actually BS that only needs to be entertained because people have a moral problem with the idea of addiction, and think that if we call it dependecy that makes it palatable. It doesn't matter, a dependency is an addiction and an addiction is a dependency in that you have to take the drugs otherwise you go into withdrawal and that feels like absolute hell. We don't need to pussyfoot around the fact he had an addiction in order to feel absolute undying compassion for him.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:02pm]

-- They are reading it the correct way. The media tried to make him out to be some rock star druggie and pull down his character. Now everyone is starting to see the real picture about pain meds and addiction. Prince was openly against drugs if you do not see him being painted as a druggie by the media as a problem you are missing something. It can help a lot of people in pain if these fake pills get taken off the streets and if we start look at other ways to manage pain. I mean people who sprain ankles are being Fentynal!! Does that really seem okay.

well, don't take the shit, i've pissed off a few doctors in the past, they are just people.

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said: --- Who the fuck outside of the stupid daily mail ever said Prince had stage frieht!!! He did after shows he did not even have to do. Does that make sense to you? To do additional shows when you have stage fright. Will being high off your ass make you a better performer? Why do you think the tabloids don't ever talk to Morris Day or Andre Cymone people who performed with him from junior high. Because they know they are going to get called on their bullshit.

Did you not read what Chris Moon said about his first recording session? Do you also not realise many performers are afflicted with stage fright? Don't you think it may have been a possibility. I only said he was a perfectionist and sensitive to subtle energies. But I also believe those attributes are not neurotypical, and talented artists like Prince perceive the world and people very differently. You do realise that Beatles and Bob Dylan were often high when performing. And they did it purposely to play better.

Yeah, I know what Chris Moon said. And then he got on stage and realized he did the most convincing impersonation of a rock god ever seen by humankind and got over it. And yes, P was likely very very sensitive, and I think he probably had social anxiety, but that is totally a different thing from performance...I have social anxiety, and if you put me in a room with 10 ppl I don't know I will skulk in the corner with a drink and the one person I know. But I can stand in front of 200 people and give a lecture no problem.

PeteSilas said:

jayseajay said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

It really depends what media you read. Most of the broadsheet reporting has been incredibly respectful and straightforward about it. And I wasn't responding to the question of what whatever muchraking tabloid papers are saying about him being a druggie or otherwise, I was responding to the statement 'HE WAS NOT AN ADDICT.' He was an addict. The point I was making was about ppl not being able to accept that because they have moral judgments about what being an addict means. And no, the way pain pills have been being described in th US is not okay, and the results of it are horrifying, and the fact it claimed the life of someone so irreplacable makes me want to murder whatever Big Pharma ass decided to start pushing opiates like candy.

-- We agree on big Pharma and the tide has changed with the mainstream media. I am sorry but I most people see a difference between someone deciding to get hooked on drugs for kicks because there are a lot of people who like getting high for fun. On the other side you people who no choice but to take meds that get them hooked and also can cause early death due to the side effects of the meds. Big difference.

Yes and no. An awful lot of ppl who take drugs for fun never get addicted to them, like ppl who drink for fun. If you get addicted to recreational drugs its usually because there is an underying issue of an emotional sort, and that deserves compassion, and if you get addicted to opiates you started taking for pain management and develop a physical dependecy, that also deserves compassion. What I'm taking issue with is the people seeing a big difference between the 'good' people with dependencies and the 'bad' people with addictions. Anyone with a serious drug problem has something going on with them that deserves compassion. P deserves it, and so does everyone else. And the fact that ppl have fucked up judgmental ideas about addiction doesn't mean we should ignore the glaring evidence that Prince had an addiction and he lost his life because of it and its an utter utter tragedy.

fortuneandserendipity said:

jayseajay said:

NinaB said:

NinaB said: