jayseajay said:

NinaB said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Did you not read what Chris Moon said about his first recording session? Do you also not realise many performers are afflicted with stage fright? Don't you think it may have been a possibility. I only said he was a perfectionist and sensitive to subtle energies. But I also believe those attributes are not neurotypical, and talented artists like Prince perceive the world and people very differently. You do realise that Beatles and Bob Dylan were often high when performing. And they did it purposely to play better.

You talking about the 70's?! How long u been following P?

http://kstp.com/news/chris-moon-discovered-prince-18/4114009/

Sounds near enough stage fright to me, albeit very early on. There's also the american bandstand performance, where it's obvious in the interview afterwards.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

jayseajay said:

No.

You can't say that for sure It is full of foul play IMO

No, until the results of the investigation no one can say anything for sure. But I think if ppl closer to this than us thought there was foul play they would be making a hell of a lot more noise about it. Do you think Van Jones or Tavis Smiley or Wendy or Lisa or Sheila would be sitting around doing nothing if they thought P's death was seriously suspicious. There are bits of the puzzle missing, but we're getting them slowly. And every time we get a new piece it point the same way. The thing I was stuck on was how the fuck he ended up taking something as potent as fentanyl when all the talk was of a pill problem. We have an aswer to that now. It's a horrible devastating answer, but it's an answer.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Yes and no. An awful lot of ppl who take drugs for fun never get addicted to them, like ppl who drink for fun. If you get addicted to recreational drugs its usually because there is an underying issue of an emotional sort, and that deserves compassion, and if you get addicted to opiates you started taking for pain management and develop a physical dependecy, that also deserves compassion. What I'm taking issue with is the people seeing a big difference between the 'good' people with dependencies and the 'bad' people with addictions. Anyone with a serious drug problem has something going on with them that deserves compassion. P deserves it, and so does everyone else. And the fact that ppl have fucked up judgmental ideas about addiction doesn't mean we should ignore the glaring evidence that Prince had an addiction and he lost his life because of it and its an utter utter tragedy.

--We have to agree to disagree.

About what, whether compassion should be withheld from some people with drug addictions?

laurarichardson said:

NinaB said:

Some of the rubbish people have said! I can take it slightly better frm a noob. But some of y'all are long time hardcore collectors chattin a whole heap of shit! Need 2 lay off the projection & pay closer attention. Cha!

-- Unfortunatly, since Prince died we have a lot of people projecting their drugs issues and comparing themselves to Prince. That dude was the hardest working man in show business and anyone who thinks he did it stoned and frighten of the stage is delisional. He did by working hard and don't need drugs to accomplished your goals or be creative.

I've never been addicted to opiates personally. Only nicotine for a bit and maybe caffeine right now. James Brown was the hardest working man in show business btw and he took a truckload of shit. Maybe you're the one being delusional if you think drugs have never assisted great art.

jayseajay said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

jayseajay said: You can't say that for sure It is full of foul play IMO

No, until the results of the investigation no one can say anything for sure. But I think if ppl closer to this than us thought there was foul play they would be making a hell of a lot more noise about it. Do you think Van Jones or Tavis Smiley or Wendy or Lisa or Sheila would be sitting around doing nothing if they thought P's death was seriously suspicious. There are bits of the puzzle missing, but we're getting them slowly. And every time we get a new piece it point the same way. The thing I was stuck on was how the fuck he ended up taking something as potent as fentanyl when all the talk was of a pill problem. We have an aswer to that now. It's a horrible devastating answer, but it's an answer.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:56pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

What if they just hit a stone wall and just close the case?


I thought about that yesterday as I read about a case the DEA were working on where a man died, taking counterfeit meds, they raided his home found no evidence to connect anyone with, and that was that.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:57pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

NinaB said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

http://kstp.com/news/chris-moon-discovered-prince-18/4114009/

Sounds near enough stage fright to me, albeit very early on. There's also the american bandstand performance, where it's obvious in the interview afterwards.

Again! - you're talkin about the 70's!

there was an article about the american bandstand preformace that said he was actually pissed at dick clark because he had asked him why he stayed in minnesota before the preformace and prince thought that he was throughing some shade, so he said he was not going to answer dick clarks questions. so he was not scared, he was in control

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

jayseajay said:

No, until the results of the investigation no one can say anything for sure. But I think if ppl closer to this than us thought there was foul play they would be making a hell of a lot more noise about it. Do you think Van Jones or Tavis Smiley or Wendy or Lisa or Sheila would be sitting around doing nothing if they thought P's death was seriously suspicious. There are bits of the puzzle missing, but we're getting them slowly. And every time we get a new piece it point the same way. The thing I was stuck on was how the fuck he ended up taking something as potent as fentanyl when all the talk was of a pill problem. We have an aswer to that now. It's a horrible devastating answer, but it's an answer.

there was an article about the american bandstand preformace that said he was actually pissed at dick clark because he had asked him why he stayed in minnesota before the preformace and prince thought that he was throughing some shade, so he said he was not going to answer dick clarks questions. so he was not scared, he was in control

Yeah, I don't know about that. He looked totally oberwhelmed...but I can imagine him spinning some shit about it later to save face. I think he was nervous/shy at the beginning, why wouldn't he be...and then he realized he was epically good at it, and got an enormous kick out of it, and then he did it as much as he humanly could...

fortuneandserendipity said:

The social phobia and stage fright mentioned in the article are often synonymous with perfectionism and being sensitive to subtle energies (he had out of body experiences sometimes while performing for christ sake!), both attributes that apply to Prince. Proves nothing but it's perfectly plausible he used things in the past.

I don't believe there's a hollywood celebrity or rock star in his/her 20's who hasn't at least experimented.

Wait a minute--you believe a report from Daily Mail over the Associated Press!?

not to mention he preformed in almost no clothes back in the day not something a scared person would do, takes balls to show your balls

jayseajay said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

morningsong said:

What if they just hit a stone wall and just close the case?


I thought about that yesterday as I read about a case the DEA were working on where a man died, taking counterfeit meds, they raided his home found no evidence to connect anyone with, and that was that.

[Edited 8/23/16 17:57pm]

Yeah, the fact they say there is only someone working on it when they have something to work on worried me a bit...it means their leads are thin. But I don't think they'll give up easily. They know how important he was and is, and the Sheriff seemed like good people to me. I hope so...

NPR did a report on Here and Now today bout the fentanyl and my take away was that prince thought he was taking oxycotin or percocet.

http://www.wbur.org/herea...e-fentanyl

lwr001 said:

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

About what, whether compassion should be withheld from some people with drug addictions?

-- You can have compassion for people and get it real at the same time.

What does 'get it real' mean in this sentence?

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Yes and no. An awful lot of ppl who take drugs for fun never get addicted to them, like ppl who drink for fun. If you get addicted to recreational drugs its usually because there is an underying issue of an emotional sort, and that deserves compassion, and if you get addicted to opiates you started taking for pain management and develop a physical dependecy, that also deserves compassion. What I'm taking issue with is the people seeing a big difference between the 'good' people with dependencies and the 'bad' people with addictions. Anyone with a serious drug problem has something going on with them that deserves compassion. P deserves it, and so does everyone else. And the fact that ppl have fucked up judgmental ideas about addiction doesn't mean we should ignore the glaring evidence that Prince had an addiction and he lost his life because of it and its an utter utter tragedy.

--We have to agree to disagree.

I think there are two things at crosshairs here: 1) why someone starts taking the drug and 2) what it means physiologically to be addicted/dependent. Physiologically, why you start does not matter...addiction is addiction. But to some people it matters why someone starts. I can see why. If someone is in physical pain and needs pain medication and then becomes addicted, it's not like they were playing with fire. They didn't mean it and maybe didn't even like the fact that they ever had to take a drug at all. It does seem unfair to lump them in with those who were out for a party.

But I see the other side as well. When someone uses drugs recreationally and becomes addicted, how do you really know why they started? There is such a thing as deep emotional pain that can be excruciating to live with. You just don't know. I have a cousin who partied with her dad starting at 13. 13 years old...with her father! Yes, she was having fun and many would separate her from someone who got addicted for medical reasons if they ran into her on the street when she was homeless years later. But is that fair? Is it right? How do you know how or why someone starts in the first place? Most of the time, you don't. In the end, those who get addicted through "recreational" use don't get as much sympathy. I understand that and even feel it myself. And yet, I'm not sure it's really right or fair.

What bothers me about P's situation is that everything we know suggests he was addicted to vicodin, but not fentanyl, so I wish people would just accept that for now until we have evidence to the contrary. I think the "he was addicted to fentanyl for 30 years" story is as fantastical as the "he was killed my someone who slipped him the wrong pill on purpose" story.

He was addicted most likely to Tylenol with codeine. It appears he took something that was labeled as such, but it was fentanyl instead and it killed him. We don't know how he got it. That's what they are investigating.

We just don't know.

[Edited 8/23/16 18:09pm]

lazycrockett said:

lwr001 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

not to mention he preformed in almost no clothes back in the day not something a scared person would do, takes balls to show your balls

Or drugs...I kid.

We have ore evidence about the size of his balls than we do about drug use stretching back to the early eighties. Just sayin.

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

Superconductor said:

This thread is totally insane!!!! What drugs are you guys on??!! Yeah why go for the most plausible explanation that our musical hero had a drug dependence problem and got reckless and accidentally overdosed when one can make up harebrained illuminati and other crazy shit like someone slipped him a pill, satan did it because the shirt was on backwards etc. So someone force fed Prince painmeds for months to make him addicted and then finished him off and hid the pills in his dressing room in a vitamin bottle?

not everyone is jumping on the illuminati bandwagon, it is a very mysterious death though.

.

No it's not. He OD-ed on prescription pain meds.

.

A pain/addiction clinic in California was contacted for help which shows that he had an ongoing problem.

.

Case closed.

[Edited 8/23/16 18:08pm]

lwr001 said:

jayseajay said:

Morgaine said:

lwr001 said:

lazycrockett said:

NPR did a report on Here and Now today bout the fentanyl and my take away was that prince thought he was taking oxycotin or percocet.

http://www.wbur.org/herea...e-fentanyl

And those are two of the most addictive meds you can take

Correct but they are by no way as strong as fentanyl. The easiest line to draw is that Prince for what ever reason, addicted or not, thought he was taking something he had taken before or was taking at the time. I would think that if he knew it was something 100 times more potent than what he was use to someone would have been around. He took the pill, got in bed realized or awoke that something was fucking wrong grabbed his clothes to get help and got in the elevator and passed out.

[Edited 8/23/16 18:10pm]

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

Yeah, I don't know about that. He looked totally oberwhelmed...but I can imagine him spinning some shit about it later to save face. I think he was nervous/shy at the beginning, why wouldn't he be...and then he realized he was epically good at it, and got an enormous kick out of it, and then he did it as much as he humanly could...

-- You must be new. Prince told the whole band in the green room if Dick ask you a question do answer him. He was fucking with Dick Clark. This story came from Dez Dickenson. You and Daily Fail no nothing about P history.

yes i am new, thanks for the correction and the kind words