morningsong said:

Its hard to go either way because if he took FEN and almost died on the plane and fought to come back.Would he of turned around and took it again?Also where did he get the FEN ?

rogifan said:

So wait, now he's been abusing painkillers for 25-30 years? Goodness how on earth then did he live as long as he did? Honestly all one can do is laugh at some of this ridiculousness.

Can you believe it. not just painkillers but Fentanyl since 1984 because of stage fright? Now this U stuff has been thrown in the mix. You should just keep a running tab for your own amusement.

destinyc1 said:

Actually,no i cant .But,thats what he died of.

Has anyone else seen this? It may be old news.......

http://kstp.com/news/prince-received-out-patient-treatment-bank-trustee-drills-princes-vault-open/4119830/

by Jay Kolls KSTP 5

"Multiple sources close to the death investigation of Prince told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the musician entered an out-patient treatment program.

Sources said Prince was seeing a doctor to help him deal with his chronic hip pain and that part of the out-patient treatment included efforts, by Prince, to move away from using medication prescribed to treat his severe pain. They did not say Prince’s treatment program automatically means he was addicted to controlled substances.

Sources said many people seek out-patient therapy to make sure they do not become addicted to prescribed painkillers and other types of medication and others will seek help when they think they might have symptoms indicating they are starting to become dependent on the drugs and are seeking counseling to help them slowly move away from the medications."

This seems to support the facts as we know them:

Prince had chronic hip pain. Probably knees and ankles, too.

He was being treated on an out-patient program.

He had LEGAL, prescribed pain medication.

This could explain what a lot of his close friends knew.

But it still doesn't explain the mystery of the Fentanyl.

Please don't shoot me.....this came to my Facebook. Thought I would share.

destinyc1 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Mumio said: Yes you are correct, agree with you. in one of the posts someone mentioned he received a save shot that night of the plane incident.. we really don't know why The Fentanyl is listed as the cause of death only. That is why I still think he may not have knowingly taken it.

I read it was two save shots ...But,many said thats not unusual in those types of situations.

That is true...it's dependent on how he responded. Narcan won't be harmful unless there is an allergic reaction. A side effect is vomiting if given concurrent doses too quickly. The goal is to bring back the respiratory drive, if it doesn't happen quickly another dose is given. I've heard of up to 6 2mg Narcan doses given just to get them breathing on their own again.

It's interesting, but I'm not sure we can draw too many conclusions one way or the other. This article is mostly speculating about things can be true about people seeking treatment, but doesn't have much factual info about Prince's specific situation, other than anonymous sources saying he entered an out-patient treatment in part to "move away from prescribed medication to treat his severe pain." I feel like we could draw any number of conclusions from this (which was published just a week after his death, before the revelation about fentanyl), but it would all be basically speculating at this point.

zoso1978 said:

Has anyone else seen this? It may be old news.......

http://kstp.com/news/prince-received-out-patient-treatment-bank-trustee-drills-princes-vault-open/4119830/

by Jay Kolls KSTP 5

"Multiple sources close to the death investigation of Prince told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the musician entered an out-patient treatment program.

Sources said Prince was seeing a doctor to help him deal with his chronic hip pain and that part of the out-patient treatment included efforts, by Prince, to move away from using medication prescribed to treat his severe pain. They did not say Prince’s treatment program automatically means he was addicted to controlled substances.

Sources said many people seek out-patient therapy to make sure they do not become addicted to prescribed painkillers and other types of medication and others will seek help when they think they might have symptoms indicating they are starting to become dependent on the drugs and are seeking counseling to help them slowly move away from the medications."

This seems to support the facts as we know them:

Prince had chronic hip pain. Probably knees and ankles, too.

He was being treated on an out-patient program.

He had LEGAL, prescribed pain medication.

This could explain what a lot of his close friends knew.

But it still doesn't explain the mystery of the Fentanyl.

Please don't shoot me.....this came to my Facebook. Thought I would share.

I give up.

tmo1965 said:

Mumio said:

So far, there has been no mention anywhere else (to my knowledge) irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:11pm]

I think we do have reason to believe that Fentanyl was involved with the plane incident. P died from a Fentanyl OD less than 6 days later, so there is a high probability that Fentanyl was the reason for the that also. It was stated in some of the original reports that pain meds were found in Prince's possession when he was found.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:46pm]

There is still no reason to believe it was Fentanyl vs percocet, oxy, hydrocodone, etc... The thing is that people who are on Fentanyl have almost always run the gamut of lesser opioids first (it's protocol) and that is why the Fentanyl comes into play, because the lesser opioids are not working any more.

Until they tell us about any other drugs involved (and I have no idea if they will or won't after the DEA investigation concludes), we just don't know for sure.

[Edited 8/8/16 15:13pm]

Back toward the original question...

I wonder if the a change in his appearance starting a few years ago was intentional on his part, because he was trying to cultivate a more natural look. The hair, of course, but maybe he stopped getting certain facial treatments (botox, etc) that were making him look "younger" (or "fresher" or whatever). Maybe he was using less/different makeup. Looking at photos, it's hard for me to tell what was intentional image change vs. a health condition.

tmo1965 said:

Was there an article or something that says he reconnected with Jill, Susan Moonsie, Brenda, Apollonia? I know that P was in the Oakland area during the time of Denise's funeral, but I had not heard that he attended the service.

Both Jill and Apples talked about it on Facebook. Apples said it was lovely to see Jill and Susan showing Prince pictures of their children.

morningsong said:

rogifan said:

morningsong said:

Can you believe it. not just painkillers but Fentanyl since 1984 because of stage fright? Now this U stuff has been thrown in the mix. You should just keep a running tab for your own amusement.

Prince up in heaven right now [img:$uid]http://p931z2nb6eo1jytzj2ufrzyoiz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/04/prince-no.gif[/img:$uid] [Edited 8/8/16 16:04pm]

Prince too busy doing other things than to be worried about the foolishness here.

morningsong said:

PeteSilas said:

jenjens222 said:

I was thinking this earlier. I notice the change in early 2014. He looks so damn fine with his baby afro in 2013 . He was obviously an older man, but he looked healthy and still had that light in his eyes. Something changed big time. I feel like we'll never have answers

we'll get answers, no way anyone can keep a secret these days with all this internet stuff. anyway, looking back two things keep bothering me, the songs breakdown/way back home, and the way he looked on Arsenio. In both cases I just shut it out of my mind but the signs were clear that he very well may have been on his way out. Problem was, he was great and maintaining a facade so it made it easy to deny.

I agree that the answers will come eventually, probably not all of the answers, but some of them. I have been of the belief that the time frame may be a couple of years. I think that some of the answers will come out as estate proceedings progress. I am specifically thinking of content that might be in the vault that has not been released yet. Also, I think that some of those people who were close to him may disclose more in the months or years to come, but the loss is still too fresh right now for that disclosure to happen.

--

However, with the recent development of the Star Tribune trying to have access to his divorce proceedings, some information may come out sooner than expected if the Star Tribune wins its case.

It has interesting of late becuse human curiosity keeps me checking on the org to see if any new bits of information come up...

I am trying not to read into the Tablioids much.. from what I can see I think the physical decline statrted pretty much around 2013.

balmliove said:

Well it may be a coincidence, but in August 2014 Denise Matthews posted her last on IG. It was a picture of Prince and she titled it "dangerously. It may be a coincidence or could have meant something else.

Yeah that was kind of creepy given everything.

morningsong said:

nursev said:

I mean have u asked yourself lately where it really all turned bad for Prince? I think it's been since about 2012/2013 cuz you could see a change in him physically. Mentally I think after he second divorce he changed...something was just different about him Its still truly amazing that he was such a great performer while obviously dealing with something

I wonder if the entire format of the Piano & A Microphone Tour was a clue that he was not well. I never saw him live (unfortunately), but my understanding is that he almost always had a band and background singers when he went on tour. He loved playing the guitar. But the band, background singers, and guitar were not a part of the P&M Tour. So this begs the question of why weren't the other elements there?

--

My own inference (in response to the question) is that Prince may have done the format of the P&M Tour because it's all he could handle. The P&M Tour format is a lot simpler and a lot easier to manage than a tour with more people and more moving parts.

--

Rehearsals are a lot more complex when there are more people, instruments, and special effects. Prince not only would be playing with these people, but would have to deal with drama from things that may occur (arguments, people running late, injuries). He has to critique the other performers. It's simpler when it's just Prince and however many people it would take to do the set-up before and after the show and the sound engineering during the show. He's mainly critiquing himself.

--

Travel is more complicated when there are more people and more equipment. It's simpler when there are fewer people and less equipment. There are fewer things that could go wrong.

--

Performances are obviously simpler because just playing the piano is a lot less physically demanding than dancing, playing the guitar, and playing the piano.

Dibblekins said:

PeteSilas said:

do pills cause cirhossis?

Yes, hun - they can do.
.

Here is the post I made in the other thread:
.

My personal suspicion is that he started taking pain relief to deal with problems with his hips and knees sustained over years of frenetic dancing (some of his moves are suggestive of someone with hypermobility) and that this led to liver damage (cirrhosis).

.

I've been thinking about the following factors:

.

* I noticed he was starting to get a slightly yellowish hue to his skin which is indicative of liver problems;
.

*the low red blood cell count mentioned (another symptom of liver disease);

.

*the loss of appetite;

.

*the stomach problems / nausea reported by the chef;

.

*the weight loss;

.

*the lapse into unconsciousness on the 'plane (referred to in patients with liver damage as 'stupor');

.

*the fact that he was wearing clothes that completely covered him from head to toe (bruising is another symptom);

.

*the fact that the doctor was coming round on the morning of his death with blood test results (possibly to confirm end-stage liver disease - the maximum score on which indicates about 90 days left of life);

.

*P's hints in his songs and performances that he didn't have long left (cirrhosis is ultimately fatal, without, usually, a liver transplant);

.

*the fact that JWs won't allow organ transplants (a liver transplant being, really, the only potential solution - EDIT: another poster on here confirmed that JW teachings on this have changed and that organ transplants are now not prohibited but left up to the individual's conscience);

.

*the fact that the cause of death was cited as being Fentanyl toxicity - cirrhosis slows the liver’s ability to filter medications from the blood. When this slowdown occurs, medications act longer than expected and build up in the body;
.

* the fact that the family seem content to allow his cause of death to be listed purely as accidental Fentanyl overdose - because, actually, if liver damage makes one more susceptible to toxicity then, yes, the Fentanyl could WELL be the actual cause of death (perhaps any liver damage wasn't - yet - at the point of being fatal).
.

I'm posting what I consider to be a very informative site on the topic:
https://www.niddk.nih.gov...facts.aspx

.

Please be kind - it IS only my speculation...It just seems to make sense to me, given the absence of anything more from those 'in the know'.

[Edited 8/7/16 15:34pm]

I agree. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist but I too wondered about the yellowish appearance and full covered clothes. This makes perfect sense along with the spark in his eyes being gone. True we will never know, and it will not bring him back but things like this give me some type of closure, even if in my own mind.

LyraB said:

I agree about the look in his eyes more recently.

Yes, he continued to be as gracious, charming and humble as ever and smiled in all the right places when receiving awards, but those eyes........

This picture breaks my heart.

You all love posting this picture.


Imma look, I can't help it.


*hangs head in shame*

NinaB said:

I've been thinking about this too. Thing is you can be dealing with things on the inside for a number of yrs b4 they become really noticeable on the outside. Also P was pretty & as far as we know lived a healthy life, & had funds 4 the best of everything. I just hope he wasn't in chronic pain or illness or struggling with pain relief for too long.

I think it is fair to ask if Prince was also dealing with a lot of emotional pain. He also dealt with a lot of trauma in his life.

* He dealt with abandonment issues in childhood.

* His son died as an infant, he and Mayte suffered a miscarriage, and Prince never had any other children.

* He went through the divorce with Mani in 2006 that he did not want.

* His parents died in the early 2000s.

* A couple of his siblings died, I think in the last 10 years.

* His contemporaries MJ and Whitney died in the last 7 years.

* Denise (Vanity) died in 2016.

I hesitate to bring up this subject because it is so touchy, but I think that it did have an impact on him even later in life. Prince clearly wanted children, and I think that if a person wants children, that desire doesn't go away until it is satisfied. Prince was SO looking forward to having a family in his late 30s, but because he and Mayte lost 2 babies, in his 50s, he had this huge musical legacy and millions of fans, but no children. I think people don't want to talk about this because it is such a sad subject, but it just makes so much sense that the pain of losing a child still had an impact on him into his late 50s.

--

I know a couple of people who lost infants. A good family friend lost her infant son about 20-25 years ago to SIDS. It is still painful for her to talk about to this day. However, she has 4 other children (2 who are older than the son who died and 2 who are younger).

--

My grandmother (God rest her soul) lost her only biological child, Margaret, when Margaret was a newborn. My gma was born in the early 20s and her daughter Margaret was born in the late 1930s/early 1940s. I believe that she was born premature and in those days, being a premie was often a death sentence. My gma died in 2006, when she was 83. Till the end of her life, she still carried her daughter's social security card in her wallet. My grandma and grandpa adopted my mother and my sister and I, her two grandchildren, brought her great joy. But she never forgot her daughter Margaret.

--

I share these stories because I don't think that the pain of losing a child just goes away. Even with grief counseling, it stays with the person. There is even a scientific research study called Long-Term Effects of the Death of a Child on Parents’ Adjustment in Midlife (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841012/). The study's abstract says the following: "The death of a child is a traumatic event that can have long-term effects on the lives of parents. This study examined bereaved parents of deceased children (infancy to age 34) and comparison parents with similar backgrounds (n = 428 per group) identified in the Wisconsin Longitudinal Study. An average of 18.05 years following the death, when parents were age 53, bereaved parents reported more depressive symptoms, poorer well-being, and more health problems and were more likely to have experienced a depressive episode and marital disruption than were comparison parents. Recovery from grief was associated with having a sense of life purpose and having additional children but was unrelated to the cause of death or the amount of time since the death."

--

I think that just like the physical pain caught up with Prince, so did the emotional pain from all of the traumas he experienced, especially the loss of Ahmir.

RainbowGranny said:

tmo1965 said:

It was reported after his death that he attended service at the Kingdom Hall only a few weeks before he passed. They even had a service for him and if he was not in good standing with JWs they would have never held a service for him.

Thanks for answering.

Do you have a source regarding this service for P at the Kingdom Hall?