rogifan said:

Dibblekins said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVK-VYWmokU

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Lots of great stories in here re P and MJ - but the implication about P trying to manage pain is from 22.18 onwards.

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I think I've read it elsewhere too - but I can't swear to it.

Thanks for this. This is the interview I mentioned in my other post. From that comment it's still hard to tell if Tavis knew or is just coming to a logical conclusion. Was he that close to Prince?

In all truth, was anyone that close to P? I'd say it sounds as though Tavis was someone who did, potentially, have some knowledge of P's psyche and habits...That certainly seemed to be the implication from that interview, anyway.

rogifan said:

Dibblekins said:

Tavis Smiley (sp?) said in his radio interview (it's on YT) that P had been taking pain meds for years. (I think!?! Now you've got me doubting myself, lol)!

Haha. I'm still trying to find this interview with Tavis. Their was one he did where he was really animated about anyone in the media trying to paint P a junkie and then he mentioned the hip pain P was supposedly detailing with. But in that interview he never specifically said he knew P was using painkillers. I took his comments as more of an assumption (based on him knowing P wasn't in to drugs and that he had hip problems). But perhaps there is a different interview where he does say this? One other person I forgot to mention was one of the founders of Sounds of Blackness who also went on record about drugs and said no smoking, alcohol or drugs were allowed at Paisley Park. However long P was using painkillers it sure seems he kept it hidden from most people and it must not have altered his behavior much, if at all, otherwise there's no way he would have been able to keep it secret. In the past few months I've watched s lot of interviews and concert footage from the last 10-15 years and I haven't come across anything yet where P didn't seem totally on the ball, totally with it, amazing singing and playing. Even Lenny Kravitz commented in a radio interview (the day P died) about what great shape P was in, how his playing was as good as ever, how his voice never moved, etc. I don't know a lot about these painkillers as thankfully I haven't had to use them. Is it possible to use them for a period of time without any discernible side effects (unlike say, alcohol or drugs like heroin, meth etc.)? My dad was an alcoholic who would try and hide it by mixing the alcohol into soda or tomato juice, but we knew instantly when he had been drinking so it really was impossible to hide. Is it different with certain painkillers?

Sorry - I missed this post!

.

Yes, absolutely it's possible to appear PERFECTLY normal whilst on pain-killers.

.

Most people start out with needing to manage their pain - and so take something as (apparently) innocuous as paracetamol / tylenol (but, as I pointed out before, even these on the 'recommended daily dose' can start to affect the liver)...

.

Over time, the pain starts to break through and so a person might move on to something more powerful - Percocet or Tramadol, perhaps. The body gets used to it, and whilst at the outset, the patient might exhibit drowsiness, it doesn't take long to acclimatise. So, yes, one still appears perfectly normal and functional.

.

However, as time goes by, the same thing happens; the body gets used to those pain meds and they stop having much effect on the nerve signals which communicate pain sensations to the brain; the pain once again starts to break through - so something even more potent is required...Maybe morphine...Then up to Fentanyl...And all of the time, your liver has been silently struggling more and more, until the damage is done, and it's irreversible.

.

You're quite right - we can't be sure he was taking pain meds to manage anything - but to go STRAIGHT to Fentanyl seems implausible (to me anyway, based upon the experiences of my organisation's members). But, yes, it is all speculation...I'll admit; I'm selfish and I want, desperately, to understand how P ended up like this. I don't want loads of gory details - just the bare bones would do!

Dibblekins said:

Dibblekins said:

Jennifer Matesa, an author and blogger who was addicted to Fentanyl after being on other painkilling medications for years, said he had to have progressed from "lower level" opiates over a very long time up to Fentanyl. She said it took her a year to get off of Fentanyl, and it was excruciatingly hard. Everyone should have compassion for Prince and what he was going through.

rogifan said:

Dibblekins said:

Tavis Smiley (sp?) said in his radio interview (it's on YT) that P had been taking pain meds for years. (I think!?! Now you've got me doubting myself, lol)!

Haha. I'm still trying to find this interview with Tavis. Their was one he did where he was really animated about anyone in the media trying to paint P a junkie and then he mentioned the hip pain P was supposedly detailing with. But in that interview he never specifically said he knew P was using painkillers. I took his comments as more of an assumption (based on him knowing P wasn't in to drugs and that he had hip problems). But perhaps there is a different interview where he does say this? One other person I forgot to mention was one of the founders of Sounds of Blackness who also went on record about drugs and said no smoking, alcohol or drugs were allowed at Paisley Park. However long P was using painkillers it sure seems he kept it hidden from most people and it must not have altered his behavior much, if at all, otherwise there's no way he would have been able to keep it secret. In the past few months I've watched s lot of interviews and concert footage from the last 10-15 years and I haven't come across anything yet where P didn't seem totally on the ball, totally with it, amazing singing and playing. Even Lenny Kravitz commented in a radio interview (the day P died) about what great shape P was in, how his playing was as good as ever, how his voice never moved, etc. I don't know a lot about these painkillers as thankfully I haven't had to use them. Is it possible to use them for a period of time without any discernible side effects (unlike say, alcohol or drugs like heroin, meth etc.)? My dad was an alcoholic who would try and hide it by mixing the alcohol into soda or tomato juice, but we knew instantly when he had been drinking so it really was impossible to hide. Is it different with certain painkillers?

This is what does not add up. I've known people who abused drugs and unless you are one of their drug buddies, they won't let you see them do it. But eventhough you don't see them do drugs, you will figure it out before long because there will be behavior changes, appearance changes, speech slurred, hyperactivity, excessive fatigue, work performance issues, etc. If P had been abusing drugs in the usual sense, people around him would have noticed something. As it stands, no one has come out and said that there were any signs of drug use. The only symptom that something was wrong was P's rapid aging compared to how he was aging until a couple of years ago.

I've repeated before that Dr. Drew believes that P died from a "medical misadventure" rather than out right drug abuse/addiction. Dr. Drew said that if P was a drug addict, it would have been obvious with him in and out of rehab, or missed performances and such, but he only started having problems recently.

I know that it was the pain pills that killed him, but I still think that there was some other issue going on.

tmo1965 said:

rogifan said:

Dibblekins said: Haha. I'm still trying to find this interview with Tavis. Their was one he did where he was really animated about anyone in the media trying to paint P a junkie and then he mentioned the hip pain P was supposedly detailing with. But in that interview he never specifically said he knew P was using painkillers. I took his comments as more of an assumption (based on him knowing P wasn't in to drugs and that he had hip problems). But perhaps there is a different interview where he does say this? One other person I forgot to mention was one of the founders of Sounds of Blackness who also went on record about drugs and said no smoking, alcohol or drugs were allowed at Paisley Park. However long P was using painkillers it sure seems he kept it hidden from most people and it must not have altered his behavior much, if at all, otherwise there's no way he would have been able to keep it secret. In the past few months I've watched s lot of interviews and concert footage from the last 10-15 years and I haven't come across anything yet where P didn't seem totally on the ball, totally with it, amazing singing and playing. Even Lenny Kravitz commented in a radio interview (the day P died) about what great shape P was in, how his playing was as good as ever, how his voice never moved, etc. I don't know a lot about these painkillers as thankfully I haven't had to use them. Is it possible to use them for a period of time without any discernible side effects (unlike say, alcohol or drugs like heroin, meth etc.)? My dad was an alcoholic who would try and hide it by mixing the alcohol into soda or tomato juice, but we knew instantly when he had been drinking so it really was impossible to hide. Is it different with certain painkillers?

This is what does not add up. I've known people who abused drugs and unless you are one of their drug buddies, they won't let you see them do it. But eventhough you don't see them do drugs, you will figure it out before long because there will be behavior changes, appearance changes, speech slurred, hyperactivity, excessive fatigue, work performance issues, etc. If P had been abusing drugs in the usual sense, people around him would have noticed something. As it stands, no one has come out and said that there were any signs of drug use. The only symptom that something was wrong was P's rapid aging compared to how he was aging until a couple of years ago.

I've repeated before that Dr. Drew believes that P died from a "medical misadventure" rather than out right drug abuse/addiction. Dr. Drew said that if P was a drug addict, it would have been obvious with him in and out of rehab, or missed performances and such, but he only started having problems recently.

I know that it was the pain pills that killed him, but I still think that there was some other issue going on.

There is a key distinction to be made between drug 'abuse' / addiction - and being dependent on pain medication to lead a normal life though.

.

P clearly wasn't using anything to get 'high' - because he never appeared high! He just appeared normal / functional - which leads me to think that if he was taking pain medications, he was taking them purely to manage a pain condition - and had become dependent on an increasingly high dose / potency to do that.

Militant said:

Whether it was liver damage, or anything else, I've felt since 4/21 that there was something else going on and that P knew his time was limited. Why start writing the book? Why start doing just the piano shows? Why the unusal amount of candor - talking about the past so much, talking about Vanity, starting the PP show with the Batman theme, the first song he learned to play... Why reconnect with Jill, Susan Moonsie, Brenda, Apollonia in January? Why write a song like "Way Back Home" and explore the themes of "Art Official Age", the affirmations etc?

I just simply cannot imagine, say, 2006 Prince doing any of those things. He never even went to funerals of members of his own family - including his own mother! and yet this year he went to Vanity's funeral, a person who he hadn't seen in over two decades?

Could it be that his lack of motivation to address the painkiller addiction was because it was ultimately going to be pointless and he didn't have long left anyway? Maybe.

Was there an article or something that says he reconnected with Jill, Susan Moonsie, Brenda, Apollonia? I know that P was in the Oakland area during the time of Denise's funeral, but I had not heard that he attended the service.

Dibblekins said:

rogifan said:

Dibblekins said: Thanks for this. This is the interview I mentioned in my other post. From that comment it's still hard to tell if Tavis knew or is just coming to a logical conclusion. Was he that close to Prince?

In all truth, was anyone that close to P? I'd say it sounds as though Tavis was someone who did, potentially, have some knowledge of P's psyche and habits...That certainly seemed to be the implication from that interview, anyway.

I've noticed a lot of Travis/Prince YT have vanished, I think one of the ones he said explicitly he knew P was taking painkiller just not something that strong was one of the ones that disappeared. Too much is going on right now I suppose. But in other interviews you can pick up that Travis let Prince just talk for as long as he wanted about whatever he wanted without a whole lot of side commentary or judgement. So I can see how Prince may have shared things with Travis he didn't share with others. Plus I can see how they could have motivated each other. Interesting dynamic.

tmo1965 said:

Was there an article or something that says he reconnected with Jill, Susan Moonsie, Brenda, Apollonia? I know that P was in the Oakland area during the time of Denise's funeral, but I had not heard that he attended the service.

I read online that he did attend Denise's memorial in California but left early because people were bugging him for autographs or something like that.

morningsong said:

Dibblekins said:

In all truth, was anyone that close to P? I'd say it sounds as though Tavis was someone who did, potentially, have some knowledge of P's psyche and habits...That certainly seemed to be the implication from that interview, anyway.

I've noticed a lot of Travis/Prince YT have vanished, I think one of the ones he said explicitly he knew P was taking painkiller just not something that strong was one of the ones that disappeared. Too much is going on right now I suppose. But in other interviews you can pick up that Travis let Prince just talk for as long as he wanted about whatever he wanted without a whole lot of side commentary or judgement. So I can see how Prince may have shared things with Travis he didn't share with others. Plus I can see how they could have motivated each other. Interesting dynamic.

Militant said:

Whether it was liver damage, or anything else, I've felt since 4/21 that there was something else going on and that P knew his time was limited. Why start writing the book? Why start doing just the piano shows? Why the unusal amount of candor - talking about the past so much, talking about Vanity, starting the PP show with the Batman theme, the first song he learned to play... Why reconnect with Jill, Susan Moonsie, Brenda, Apollonia in January? Why write a song like "Way Back Home" and explore the themes of "Art Official Age", the affirmations etc?

I just simply cannot imagine, say, 2006 Prince doing any of those things. He never even went to funerals of members of his own family - including his own mother! and yet this year he went to Vanity's funeral, a person who he hadn't seen in over two decades?

Could it be that his lack of motivation to address the painkiller addiction was because it was ultimately going to be pointless and he didn't have long left anyway? Maybe.

Dibblekins said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Something with the Fentanyl does not add up to me. I have wondered if someone else slipped it to him? On the plane Judith mentioned she never saw him take anything, he ate then had the blank stare...could this drug have been put in his food? On Apr 20 we don't know what he did ...maybe something similar happen then he was dropped off.

So far, there has been no mention anywhere else (to my knowledge) irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:11pm]

Mumio said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Something with the Fentanyl does not add up to me. I have wondered if someone else slipped it to him? On the plane Judith mentioned she never saw him take anything, he ate then had the blank stare...could this drug have been put in his food? On Apr 20 we don't know what he did ...maybe something similar happen then he was dropped off.

So far, there had been no mention anywhere else irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

Early news reports stated the sheriff investigation found prescription painkillers in his home. Which is why the DEA got and is still involved.


I think people are smashing up all of what Judith said as though it all took place in only moments, I'm sure they were on the plane for a little while, and though there may not be much privacy I 'm sure there's some, like in the restroom, where someone doesn't know every single thing you're doing of every single moment.

morningsong said:

Mumio said:

So far, there had been no mention anywhere else irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

Early news reports stated the sheriff investigation found prescription painkillers in his home. Which is why the DEA got and is still involved.


I think people are smashing up all of what Judith said as though it all took place in only moments, I'm sure they were on the plane for a little while, and though there may not be much privacy I 'm sure there's some, like in the restroom, where someone doesn't know every single thing you're doing of every single moment.

Hi morningsong My response to Purplediamonds1 is written that way because her comment about his "blank stare" sounds like she thought the plane od was due to Fentanyl...we don't know that at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:23pm]

Mumio said:

morningsong said:

Early news reports stated the sheriff investigation found prescription painkillers in his home. Which is why the DEA got and is still involved.


I think people are smashing up all of what Judith said as though it all took place in only moments, I'm sure they were on the plane for a little while, and though there may not be much privacy I 'm sure there's some, like in the restroom, where someone doesn't know every single thing you're doing of every single moment.

Hi morningsong My response to Purplediamonds1 is written that way because her comment about his "blank stare" sounds like she thought the plane od was due to Fentanyl...we don't know that at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:23pm]

Yeah, I know Dr. Drew made comment it could have been a seizure. Or maybe not. The Moline Hospital isn't saying a word, I noticed.

Dibblekins said:

I think Prince had a couple of close friends, particlualry Kirk Johnson. I do not believe he had anything to do with Prince's death. I believe he may have the most knowledge of Prince's personal life.

It seems pain pills are hooking a lot of people. I think a lot of people take them for the right reasons, but just get hooked. That is scary. Pain meds really worry me. My heart goes out to those who really need them to mangage pain. I am not judging or criticizing anyone.

I think Prince may have just gotten in over his head. He took the meds as prescribed and needed. Prince was in good health. He was a tiny dude. I think due to his size, his eating habits, his threshold for pain may be lower. Over time, the body slows. This man worked non-stop for decades. I mean worked exahustively. Bands had a hard time keeping up.

I think he pushed and pushed. It caught up with him, not in a bad way. Just how things work. His pain from his hips maybe increased. It could be a combination, his small frame, increased pain and meds level.

I do not think Kirk or Prince's family will talk and release intitimate details about Prince. Too much respect.

I am trying to process this like all of us. Prince did seem to be making mends to those in his past. We are trying to make sense of this. Everything is under a microscope. We are second guessing everything Prince did. Not in a bad way.

I do not believe those who were close will divulge anything. At times, it seems like a nightmare to me. I am amazed by Prince, his artistry, his philanthropy, etc. His passing was quick. It is hard to process. Literally, here one day and gone the next.

I am resolved that we will never know if there was any underlying issues in Prince's health. He was a mystery alive and his death continues in the same facade.

Dibblekins said:

rogifan said:

Dibblekins said: Haha. I'm still trying to find this interview with Tavis. Their was one he did where he was really animated about anyone in the media trying to paint P a junkie and then he mentioned the hip pain P was supposedly detailing with. But in that interview he never specifically said he knew P was using painkillers. I took his comments as more of an assumption (based on him knowing P wasn't in to drugs and that he had hip problems). But perhaps there is a different interview where he does say this? One other person I forgot to mention was one of the founders of Sounds of Blackness who also went on record about drugs and said no smoking, alcohol or drugs were allowed at Paisley Park. However long P was using painkillers it sure seems he kept it hidden from most people and it must not have altered his behavior much, if at all, otherwise there's no way he would have been able to keep it secret. In the past few months I've watched s lot of interviews and concert footage from the last 10-15 years and I haven't come across anything yet where P didn't seem totally on the ball, totally with it, amazing singing and playing. Even Lenny Kravitz commented in a radio interview (the day P died) about what great shape P was in, how his playing was as good as ever, how his voice never moved, etc. I don't know a lot about these painkillers as thankfully I haven't had to use them. Is it possible to use them for a period of time without any discernible side effects (unlike say, alcohol or drugs like heroin, meth etc.)? My dad was an alcoholic who would try and hide it by mixing the alcohol into soda or tomato juice, but we knew instantly when he had been drinking so it really was impossible to hide. Is it different with certain painkillers?

Sorry - I missed this post!

.

Yes, absolutely it's possible to appear PERFECTLY normal whilst on pain-killers.

.

Most people start out with needing to manage their pain - and so take something as (apparently) innocuous as paracetamol / tylenol (but, as I pointed out before, even these on the 'recommended daily dose' can start to affect the liver)...

.

Over time, the pain starts to break through and so a person might move on to something more powerful - Percocet or Tramadol, perhaps. The body gets used to it, and whilst at the outset, the patient might exhibit drowsiness, it doesn't take long to acclimatise. So, yes, one still appears perfectly normal and functional.

.

However, as time goes by, the same thing happens; the body gets used to those pain meds and they stop having much effect on the nerve signals which communicate pain sensations to the brain; the pain once again starts to break through - so something even more potent is required...Maybe morphine...Then up to Fentanyl...And all of the time, your liver has been silently struggling more and more, until the damage is done, and it's irreversible.

.

You're quite right - we can't be sure he was taking pain meds to manage anything - but to go STRAIGHT to Fentanyl seems implausible (to me anyway, based upon the experiences of my organisation's members). But, yes, it is all speculation...I'll admit; I'm selfish and I want, desperately, to understand how P ended up like this. I don't want loads of gory details - just the bare bones would do!

i'd agree, serious illness not withstanding, like cancer.

http://kstp.com/news/prin...d/4204272/

Mumio said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Mumio said:

So far, there has been no mention anywhere else (to my knowledge) irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:11pm]

Yes you are correct, agree with you. in one of the posts someone mentioned he received a save shot that night of the plane incident.. we really don't know why The Fentanyl is listed as the cause of death only. That is why I still think he may not have knowingly taken it.

I read it was two save shots ...But,many said thats not unusual in those types of situations.

strawberrylova123 said:

Dibblekins said:

There is a key distinction to be made between drug 'abuse' / addiction - and being dependent on pain medication to lead a normal life though.

.

P clearly wasn't using anything to get 'high' - because he never appeared high! He just appeared normal / functional - which leads me to think that if he was taking pain medications, he was taking them purely to manage a pain condition - and had become dependent on an increasingly high dose / potency to do that.

I honestly believe that prince also had an underlying heart condition, remember the 1996 incident and matt fink told him he had heart Murmurs.

A heart murmur does not = a heart condition. I've had a heart murmur that I was born with and there is nothing wrong with my heart. It's been checked several times over the years.

destinyc1 said:

http://kstp.com/news/prin...d/4204272/

I'm curious why is this held up as legitimate? Not one other new source has even bothered to mention this. It's been out long enough for any of the bigger more prominent news outlets to lend some of their credibilty to it, yet not one touches it. That right there makes me put this on a back burner and not even worth mentioning.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:20pm]

morningsong said:

destinyc1 said:

http://kstp.com/news/prin...d/4204272/

I'm curious why is this held up as legitimate? Not one other new source has even bothered to mention this. It's been out long enough for any of the bigger more prominent news outlets to lend some of their credibilty to it, yet not one touches it. That right there makes me put this on a back burner and not even worth mentioning.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:20pm]

I'm starting to wonder actually how long prince had been on these pills.Remember his bro came straight out and said 25 years.His drug dealer said 30/35 but,that he DR D didnt hook him.But,way,way before the report came out the dealer named fen as a drug p used.When everyone else was talking about the other pills.I never believed the guy took an advil.But,then again where did this clean living thing start at ?Did prince say this or did others.At mj memorial the biggest laugh was when magic said michael you eat kfc.....just like the nurse who named the meds mj was on.The drug dealer said prince spent 40,000 every 6 months.This can be verified....Stage freight was said to be the reason.It helps them cope.Stopping cold turkey would of really did him in.He needed to be in the hospital or rehab as we all know.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:44pm]

Mumio said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Something with the Fentanyl does not add up to me. I have wondered if someone else slipped it to him? On the plane Judith mentioned she never saw him take anything, he ate then had the blank stare...could this drug have been put in his food? On Apr 20 we don't know what he did ...maybe something similar happen then he was dropped off.

So far, there has been no mention anywhere else (to my knowledge) irt the investigation that Fentanyl was found on nor around Prince anywhere except as the direct cause of his death (when they found his body). We have no reason to believe Fentanyl had anything to do with the plane overdose at this point.

[Edited 8/8/16 12:11pm]

I think we do have reason to believe that Fentanyl was involved with the plane incident. P died from a Fentanyl OD less than 6 days later, so there is a high probability that Fentanyl was the reason for the that also. It was stated in some of the original reports that pain meds were found in Prince's possession when he was found.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:46pm]

destinyc1 said:

morningsong said:

I'm curious why is this held up as legitimate? Not one other new source has even bothered to mention this. It's been out long enough for any of the bigger more prominent news outlets to lend some of their credibilty to it, yet not one touches it. That right there makes me put this on a back burner and not even worth mentioning.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:20pm]

I'm starting to wonder actually how long prince had been on these pills.Remember his bro came straight out and said 25 years.His drug dealer said 30/35 but,that he DR D didnt hook him.But,way,way before the report came out the dealer named fen as a drug p used.When everyone else was talking about the other pills.I never believed the guy took an advil.But,then again where did this clean living thing start at ?Did prince say this or did others.At mj memorial the biggest laugh was when magic said michael you eat kfc.....just like the nurse who named the meds mj was on.The drug dealer said prince spent 40,000 every 6 months.This can be verified....Stage freight was said to be the reason.It helps them cope.Stopping cold turkey would of really did him in.He needed to be in the hospital or rehab as we all know.

[Edited 8/8/16 13:44pm]

So you are taking tabloid articles as truth? I see. I have no further comments an any of this stuff.

http://perezhilton.com/20...6jplFsrLIU TMZ AND THESE TABS HAVE BEEN ON THE MONEY IN MANY CASES.What people dont understand is that celebs and friends rat on each other at times.Now if im related to jo smoo they tend to print the story and say close friend or associate.Now they lie on family at times to get a check mind you.And celebs know there are leaks so they tell false stories to the ones they think are leaking.