You all do know that he had actually been seeing a doctor for opiate withdrawals for at least a few weeks before his death....and that's probably why he died.

CROWNS1 said:

You all do know that he had actually been seeing a doctor for opiate withdrawals for at least a few weeks before his death....and that's probably why he died.

.

That is a bit too simplistic.

Especially a doctor that is treating a patient for opiate withdrawals (i.e.: he was a slave to the chemicals!) should have explained in a very clear and detailled manner what the treatment involves, what the risks are, etc. I.e. what the body responds like during the treatment.

If all is in a normal situation, then the drug Prince took, if it was part of the treatment but I doubt that, was prescribed in a way so that he would not overdose.

There is no communication about a prescription being found. (thus not clearing the doctor(s) from suspicion)

Maybe someone can explain if the fentanyl can be part of a opiate withdrawal treatment?

If it can't then we know that Prince either was not being treated for opiate withdrawals yet or that he took 'extra' stuff for whatever reason. (hip, recreational cravings, etc)

Re all the HIV/AIDS talk I will just point out that Lala Escarzega denied it at the time the rumours started. I would imagine she is in a better position to know than those speculating. This thread has gone all the way left.

udo said:

morningsong said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

endiadj said:

RachB65 said:

morningsong said:

You know what? That's one constant that has not changed since he passed, that he had seen this Dr. for withdrawal symptoms. A few employees and associates have mentioned he had a flu for months which could also be really symptom for withdrawl. And people have overdosed on legitimate fentanyl presciptions. Worse case scenerio, a faulty patch. Google it, it has happened. There is not enough information to make any type of calls yet. Yep, this investigation is taking a very long time, so it's obviously not cut and dry. We still don't know the reasons why, so my guess is as good as yours. Red tape issues can hold up an investigation also.

Was that a serious question?? Of course Fentanyl would not b used for opiate withdrawal...And i do believe he was being treated for withdrawal, as stated by a doctor and P's associates...BUT if his addiction was deeply entrenched and the withdrawal did not include Suboxone than he was probably having a very hard time staying off the opiates..Hence the emergency call to a pain management and addiction specialist who uses Suboxone in his treatment regimen..Suboxone has proven to b VERY effective for opiate addiction and withdrawal..In fact, Prince's death is now pushing the medical community to make it easier to get Suboxone for addicts whereas right now its very restricted.... Also, its VERY possible that P didnt actually know he was taking fentanyl. There have been reports there is a huge problem in Minn. of pills being sold on the street as Percosets but are actually fentanyl...Perhaps thats what P thought he was taking, which would absolutely make his death accidental... [Edited 7/18/16 4:42am]

.

So in such case there would be no prescription and the overdose would be his own fault.

He obtained the stuff via his P.A('s).

He used the stuff, got at least one overdose before the fatal one but did not change his behaviour.

Even though he might have realised that he needed help getting off the stuff.

So he used it again and we know the rest.

How bad does your pain have to be in Minnestoa to get similar medications via regular channels? (doctor, etc)

So what does this, if true, show w.r.t. his supposed pain?

[Edited 7/18/16 6:22am]

udo said:

udo said:

laurarichardson said:

I;m just going to say if Prince was addicted - 'fault' doesnt exist. Addicts arent in control of themselves anymore.

And if he was an addict, he should not have been in control of his treatment - but who was his next of kin or the person having his medical proxy or POA? That person could have put him in treatment without his consent. I keep going back to Britney Spears ... in California she went in, I believe, on a 5150 - she was a danger to herself. Couldn't someone addicted to painkillers be a danger to himself?

udo said:

RachB65 said:

morningsong said: Was that a serious question?? Of course Fentanyl would not b used for opiate withdrawal...And i do believe he was being treated for withdrawal, as stated by a doctor and P's associates...BUT if his addiction was deeply entrenched and the withdrawal did not include Suboxone than he was probably having a very hard time staying off the opiates..Hence the emergency call to a pain management and addiction specialist who uses Suboxone in his treatment regimen..Suboxone has proven to b VERY effective for opiate addiction and withdrawal..In fact, Prince's death is now pushing the medical community to make it easier to get Suboxone for addicts whereas right now its very restricted.... Also, its VERY possible that P didnt actually know he was taking fentanyl. There have been reports there is a huge problem in Minn. of pills being sold on the street as Percosets but are actually fentanyl...Perhaps thats what P thought he was taking, which would absolutely make his death accidental... [Edited 7/18/16 4:42am]

.

So in such case there would be no prescription and the overdose would be his own fault.

He obtained the stuff via his P.A('s).

He used the stuff, got at least one overdose before the fatal one but did not change his behaviour.

Even though he might have realised that he needed help getting off the stuff.

So he used it again and we know the rest.

How bad does your pain have to be in Minnestoa to get similar medications via regular channels? (doctor, etc)

So what does this, if true, show w.r.t. his supposed pain?

[Edited 7/18/16 6:22am]

Why do you keep stating stuff as if it were facts? Even the stuff Rach said is just that person's opinion on what might have happened. I have a long list of scenrios myself. I just have sense enough to know they are my scenerios and have nothing to do with the truth.

You must have never been in an extreme pain situation. I've never had chronic pain, but I've had labor, (sidenote: they put fentanyl in epidurals), and when real pain hits all you care about is making it stop, reason goes the fuq all out the window, I know that. So no point in asking why would he do it if he was in that much pain. The equation comes down to "pill (or whatever) makes pain stop", and that's it. Nobody around these parts has any idea what pain it was, we are all just hypothesizing with the info we have.

We do know Prince had a very strong work ethic, I think that might explain a lot of why he didn't do certain things, he had work to do, if you know anyone with that kind of ethic, you may not agree with it but you sure understand perfectly well where it's coming from and to respect it. It sure isn't about recreation and just feeling good.

I had seen this article in the Star Tribune mid-June, while reading about Prince on the website....found it very interesting. The person overdosed the day before Prince did. I'm not saying there was a connection, but I found it interesting: http://minnesota.cbslocal...ose-death/

laurarichardson said:

endiadj said:

Why do fans keep trying to give him aids based on nothing? ya'll really want this man to have suffered in his years.

many of prince's ladies have waffled on relationship questions before his death, so this isn't a new thing. hell, he waffled. lol

[Edited 7/17/16 19:07pm]

-/- What women have waffled? Many women have come out and talked about their relationships with him. If he had AIDS, or HIV he would have had to disclose who slept with going back years. Women would have been suing and running to the media. He wound have been in the same stituation as Charlie Sheen. I do not see any women being hesitant about their relationship with him. Hell Sheile E has been talking about their long affair for over two years and is still talking about it. I am not saying he did not have any sexually transmitted disesases but you do have disclose who you slept with and it would be hard to keep it quiet especially now that he is no longer alive.

Just recently Andy. It seems she's gone back and forth. Do we know for sure if Bria was romantically involved? That singer Delilah (?), just recently, I'm talking about. Maybe just articles written about them dating, but have they come forward and said they weren't dating him?

Whatever tho... The cause of death was determined. None of the rest is my business, so I will stop gossiping about it. Does no one any good.

udo said:

CROWNS1 said:

You all do know that he had actually been seeing a doctor for opiate withdrawals for at least a few weeks before his death....and that's probably why he died.

.

That is a bit too simplistic.

Especially a doctor that is treating a patient for opiate withdrawals (i.e.: he was a slave to the chemicals!) should have explained in a very clear and detailled manner what the treatment involves, what the risks are, etc. I.e. what the body responds like during the treatment.

If all is in a normal situation, then the drug Prince took, if it was part of the treatment but I doubt that, was prescribed in a way so that he would not overdose.

There is no communication about a prescription being found. (thus not clearing the doctor(s) from suspicion)

Maybe someone can explain if the fentanyl can be part of a opiate withdrawal treatment?

If it can't then we know that Prince either was not being treated for opiate withdrawals yet or that he took 'extra' stuff for whatever reason. (hip, recreational cravings, etc)

People die from the simpliest things sometimes. Prince was not superhuman.

Whatever the relationship was with Judith, I hope Prince had someone to love and to love him before he passed. I hope he got to hear I love you from someone special in his life and I hope he got a chance to tell that someone that he loves her one last time.

From what I read, when someone is given a "save shot" (Narcan); it makes the person go through withdrawals. The fact of the matter is that Prince should have been in a hospital. Period!! He needed to be under a doctor's supervision and he needed help. I might sound blunt here, but Prince's doctor's FAILED him, miserably! You can say: "Where were his friends? Why was he all alone?", etc., etc., but the bottom line is when you have a patient who is in chronic pain, and you know their history of Percocet -- you don't go and give that person an even MORE potent drug like "Fentanyl". BTW, the doctor's are being investigated and it is still unclear WHERE Prince got the Fentanyl from or in which "form" he was taking it (pill or patch). Either way, this is not a drug that should be given to ANYONE, unsupervised. There is a long-list of unanswered questions on WHO and WHERE did Prince get the Fentanyl from. Why was that doctor's son there that morning Prince's lifeless body was found, and why was he there with a "backpack" of opiates (Percocet)? Was that supposed to help Prince?! Sounds more like they were trying to kill him! Rest in Peace, Prince -- you surely did not deserve this!

endiadj said:

Whatever the relationship was with Judith, I hope Prince had someone to love and to love him before he passed. I hope he got to hear I love you from someone special in his life and I hope he got a chance to tell that someone that he loves her one last time.

Me too.....it just breaks my heart to think that he was alone in his time of need. I know he is resting now in eternal peace. He was love by many, he knows this. God's love is everlasting.

cloveringold85 said:

sorry this has probably been answered somewhere, but could the fenantyl in whatever form have been left over from a prescription filled perhaps years ago for surgery, etc, and it was just something that P came across or remembered in a drawer or something and being unaware of its relative strength, just took to get through the night?

RachB65 said:

morningsong said:

Why do you keep stating stuff as if it were facts?

.

Read again.

'in such case' `would`, etc.

.

No such intent.

udo said:

cloveringold85 said:

From what I read, when someone is given a "save shot" (Narcan); it makes the person go through withdrawals. The fact of the matter is that Prince should have been in a hospital. Period!! He needed to be under a doctor's supervision and he needed help. I might sound blunt here, but Prince's doctor's FAILED him, miserably! You can say: "Where were his friends? Why was he all alone?", etc., etc., but the bottom line is when you have a patient who is in chronic pain, and you know their history of Percocet -- you don't go and give that person an even MORE potent drug like "Fentanyl". BTW, the doctor's are being investigated and it is still unclear WHERE Prince got the Fentanyl from or in which "form" he was taking it (pill or patch). Either way, this is not a drug that should be given to ANYONE, unsupervised. There is a long-list of unanswered questions on WHO and WHERE did Prince get the Fentanyl from. Why was that doctor's son there that morning Prince's lifeless body was found, and why was he there with a "backpack" of opiates (Percocet)? Was that supposed to help Prince?! Sounds more like they were trying to kill him! Rest in Peace, Prince -- you surely did not deserve this!

Two people in my family have used Fentanyl patches for years (one over 10 years) unsupervised after stepping up from precocet like medication. It is not unusual. No regular appointments or check ups occur. The drug is only a problem if it is abused.

We don't know how P got Fentanyl but he had a clean image. If he needed it for some serious pain then a doctor would have no reason to withhold it.

However, hip pain seems an unlikely reason to be given Fentanyl. He seemed to be moving very well after the probable op in 2010. I don't see how a doctor could look at that range of movement and think he needed Fentanyl for it. I have never known anyone with crippling hip problems be given Fentanyl never mind somone who can dance around - but practices differ, especially for the rich.

Narcan only lasts a couple of hours. The drug remaining in his system would have kicked in after that. IF he was a heavy user he would have had a terrible couple of hours after the narcan but after that, from the description of the night from JH, he did not go into full withdrawal (which would have been a terrible week). So the Narcan may have got him over the OD period (P could easily explain away taking too much that night without causing alarm) and then he would have been expected to maintain his regular dose.

Or it could be something else altogether. All we really know is he died of Fentanyl. We don't even know if it was an OD the week before. It didn't sound like one - not a Fentanyl OD anyway.

sunset3121 said:

cloveringold85 said:

From what I read, when someone is given a "save shot" (Narcan); it makes the person go through withdrawals. The fact of the matter is that Prince should have been in a hospital. Period!! He needed to be under a doctor's supervision and he needed help. I might sound blunt here, but Prince's doctor's FAILED him, miserably! You can say: "Where were his friends? Why was he all alone?", etc., etc., but the bottom line is when you have a patient who is in chronic pain, and you know their history of Percocet -- you don't go and give that person an even MORE potent drug like "Fentanyl". BTW, the doctor's are being investigated and it is still unclear WHERE Prince got the Fentanyl from or in which "form" he was taking it (pill or patch). Either way, this is not a drug that should be given to ANYONE, unsupervised. There is a long-list of unanswered questions on WHO and WHERE did Prince get the Fentanyl from. Why was that doctor's son there that morning Prince's lifeless body was found, and why was he there with a "backpack" of opiates (Percocet)? Was that supposed to help Prince?! Sounds more like they were trying to kill him! Rest in Peace, Prince -- you surely did not deserve this!

Two people in my family have used Fentanyl patches for years (one over 10 years) unsupervised after stepping up from precocet like medication. It is not unusual. No regular appointments or check ups occur. The drug is only a problem if it is abused.

We don't know how P got Fentanyl but he had a clean image. If he needed it for some serious pain then a doctor would have no reason to withhold it.

However, hip pain seems an unlikely reason to be given Fentanyl. He seemed to be moving very well after the probable op in 2010. I don't see how a doctor could look at that range of movement and think he needed Fentanyl for it. I have never known anyone with crippling hip problems be given Fentanyl never mind somone who can dance around - but practices differ, especially for the rich.

Narcan only lasts a couple of hours. The drug remaining in his system would have kicked in after that. IF he was a heavy user he would have had a terrible couple of hours after the narcan but after that, from the description of the night from JH, he did not go into full withdrawal (which would have been a terrible week). So the Narcan may have got him over the OD period (P could easily explain away taking too much that night without causing alarm) and then he would have been expected to maintain his regular dose.

Or it could be something else altogether. All we really know is he died of Fentanyl. We don't even know if it was an OD the week before. It didn't sound like one - not a Fentanyl OD anyway.

people keep saying this, but we only saw him for a few hours a day at a concert. these were not long concert tours either. the pain meds could work for that long and when he leaves the stage and we didn't see him, who knows how his body felt.

morningsong said:

udo said:

.

Read again.

'in such case' `would`, etc.

.

No such intent.

I highlighted what I was referring to.

.

Yes, my glasses are fine.

Does one in English have to repeat every hypthetical-making verb every time to be taken seriously?

Or does one have the freedom of a lively way of writing what is not my first language?

Or can one at least taste my intent en udnerstand that intent versus sifting through details?

.

Self medicating isn't good, but once someone reaches dependency point they need help. So nope can't shrug my shoulders and just say oh well. I really want to know how it got to this point.

.

Prince was a sane person when he died.

So he could decide to seek help.

Prince wa rich enough to have an entourage, perhaps a PA. Maybe they knew and wanted him to seek help.

From what is in the news 'his people' seeked help for Prince.

Yet he still took his stuff.

That is not shrugging. That is fact.

The reasons we can speculate about.

endiadj said:

sunset3121 said:

Two people in my family have used Fentanyl patches for years (one over 10 years) unsupervised after stepping up from precocet like medication. It is not unusual. No regular appointments or check ups occur. The drug is only a problem if it is abused.

We don't know how P got Fentanyl but he had a clean image. If he needed it for some serious pain then a doctor would have no reason to withhold it.

However, hip pain seems an unlikely reason to be given Fentanyl. He seemed to be moving very well after the probable op in 2010. I don't see how a doctor could look at that range of movement and think he needed Fentanyl for it. I have never known anyone with crippling hip problems be given Fentanyl never mind somone who can dance around - but practices differ, especially for the rich.

Narcan only lasts a couple of hours. The drug remaining in his system would have kicked in after that. IF he was a heavy user he would have had a terrible couple of hours after the narcan but after that, from the description of the night from JH, he did not go into full withdrawal (which would have been a terrible week). So the Narcan may have got him over the OD period (P could easily explain away taking too much that night without causing alarm) and then he would have been expected to maintain his regular dose.

Or it could be something else altogether. All we really know is he died of Fentanyl. We don't even know if it was an OD the week before. It didn't sound like one - not a Fentanyl OD anyway.

people keep saying this, but we only saw him for a few hours a day at a concert. these were not long concert tours either. the pain meds could work for that long and when he leaves the stage and we didn't see him, who knows how his body felt.

For years after the possible 2010 op he was moving his hips in ways that he could have avoided if they caused him pain - he didn't seem to be protecting the hip. The pain could have been recent but JH said there were no signs of pain and she saw him after the concerts, rehearsing into the "wee hours" etc. You know when somone is suffering the kind of pain that needs Fentanyl.

Judith ""I only know what everyone knows about his pain — I read about it,” she said. In person, “he was quick on his feet. Never said anything, that this is hurting, never a sign of struggle. That’s why it’s all very shocking.”"

sunset3121 said:

endiadj said:

people keep saying this, but we only saw him for a few hours a day at a concert. these were not long concert tours either. the pain meds could work for that long and when he leaves the stage and we didn't see him, who knows how his body felt.

For years after the possible 2010 op he was moving his hips in ways that he could have avoided if they caused him pain - he didn't seem to be protecting the hip. The pain could have been recent but JH said there were no signs of pain and she saw him after the concerts, rehearsing into the "wee hours" etc. You know when somone is suffering the kind of pain that needs Fentanyl.

Judith ""I only know what everyone knows about his pain — I read about it,” she said. In person, “he was quick on his feet. Never said anything, that this is hurting, never a sign of struggle. That’s why it’s all very shocking.”"

Exactly! It was shocking because Prince hid it well. Many of his associates said the same as JH. They heard about his pain. Many of them also said he never did drugs, drank, etc., so it was shocking to them to hear about him using pain killers. A few seemed to know tho. Tavis said he knew about Prince taking painkillers for some years now. I believe Lenny Kravitz when he said he knew immediately what went wrong after Prince's death. Pain meds will give you relief for a while to get through.

He was the consummate professional. He was going to put on a show because that's who he was, what he did. He was going to push himself to his limits, pain or no pain. He was going to hide his pain and deal with it his way. So, I'm not shocked what some people can hide from those around them and but then fall apart when alone.

[Edited 7/19/16 11:01am]

[Edited 7/19/16 11:12am]