Mumio said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

But this all happened so quickly, within a week (the plane incident, hospital, his death), and he was seeking treatment. That's why docs were flying out to see him. They just got there a few hours too late. This "WB wanted him dead/killed him" is so much nonsense.

endiadj said:

But this all happened so quickly, within a week (the plane incident, hospital, his death), and he was seeking treatment. That's why docs were flying out to see him. They just got there a few hours too late. This "WB wanted him dead/killed him" is so much nonsense.

Look throught photos over the past two years, then the past 6 months. He was ILL. Yet, J.Hill said he was fine.

Everyone was saying he was fine. Who in his circle that we've heard from said he wasn't? Others like Damaris (said he had a cold/flu), his hairstylist, etc., his chef said he wasn't eating well and had the flu, I think. Judith wasn't with him all the time also. Didn't she say she spent maybe two weeks out of each month in Minn. with him. The only person who was possibly around him all the time was Kirk.

endiadj said:

Everyone was saying he was fine. Who in his circle that we've heard from said he wasn't? Others like Damaris (said he had a cold/flu), his hairstylist, etc., his chef said he wasn't eating well and had the flu, I think. Judith wasn't with him all the time also. Didn't she say she spent maybe two weeks out of each month in Minn. with him. The only person who was possibly around him all the time was Kirk.

If Judith was spending two weeks each month in MN she would notice the changes in P when she came back two weeks later. It is usually the people you see on a daily basis who do not notice subtle changes.

I saw a post by the chef's wife who stated they were lied to by Prince's inner circle about him having the flu for several months.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

endiadj said:

Everyone was saying he was fine. Who in his circle that we've heard from said he wasn't? Others like Damaris (said he had a cold/flu), his hairstylist, etc., his chef said he wasn't eating well and had the flu, I think. Judith wasn't with him all the time also. Didn't she say she spent maybe two weeks out of each month in Minn. with him. The only person who was possibly around him all the time was Kirk.

If Judith was spending two weeks each month in MN she would notice the changes in P when she came back two weeks later. It is usually the people you see on a daily basis who do not notice subtle changes.

I saw a post by the chef's wife who stated they were lied to by Prince's inner circle about him having the flu for several months.

Opioid withdrawal does produce flu like symptoms, so they weren't lying. Damaris said he had the flu also. She was just with him at a basketball game in March, I believe. She said she hadn't noticed anything wrong either.

Maybe it wasn't two weeks in/two weeks out. Maybe it was a few days here and there that added up to two weeks a month. Some of you are bound and determined to try and make this young woman responsible for his death. Pitiful.

I think it would be harder to hide a problem from someone you see everyday because you have to keep up the charade everyday. Whereas with someone you see now and then you can put on a brave face for a few days.

nursev said:

Mintchip said:

coming back to earth - hindsight is 20/20, but I regret Judith Hill, Kirky J, and the technicians on the ground didn't leak info of Prince's overdose to the press. It would have humiliated him (and, I suppose, threaten their relationship), but maybe been enough to change what happened on 4/21.

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It's the magical thinking - I don't have a problem, what you just saw didn't happen, everything's fine - that allows the addiction to thrive, and kill. It's actually the addiction that forms the thoughts in the first place.

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MY (tiny) CONSPIRACY THEORY: TMZ knew. They knew he was addicted, they knew it wasn't a flu, they probably even knew about the shot. They didn't report, either from legality, or money.

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Either that, or Judith Hill is a member of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad.

agreed...maybe he wouldve gotten help earlier if someone cared enough to say something.

Agree with NurseV and mintchip, If someone had cared enough to say something. It's not magical thinking it's addictive thinking. mintchip you hit the nail on the head. The brain gets hijacked. I don't think it was a conspiracy but certainly at least one other person knew, and for a while.

Addictions are horrifying and complicated. It would appear that P had approached the point of willingness to begin recovery. It was simply too late. Those from the rooms will be familiar with the quote that “you’re not done dancing with the gorilla until the gorilla is done dancing”. Fentanyl is like two to three gorillas. Professional break dancing gorillas who know how to anticipate your every move. My heart breaks for anyone struggling with this addiction.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

endiadj said:

Everyone was saying he was fine. Who in his circle that we've heard from said he wasn't? Others like Damaris (said he had a cold/flu), his hairstylist, etc., his chef said he wasn't eating well and had the flu, I think. Judith wasn't with him all the time also. Didn't she say she spent maybe two weeks out of each month in Minn. with him. The only person who was possibly around him all the time was Kirk.

If Judith was spending two weeks each month in MN she would notice the changes in P when she came back two weeks later. It is usually the people you see on a daily basis who do not notice subtle changes.

I saw a post by the chef's wife who stated they were lied to by Prince's inner circle about him having the flu for several months.

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Do you remember where you saw that post by Juell Roberts?

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laurarichardson said:

tmo1965 said:

I'm sure that Judith believed in P, but at the end of the day, she had a contract with Sony. Now, since P is gone, she has burnt her bridges and may not get another deal. I wish her well, but letting Prince produce her cd was a mistake.

--- Judith had a deal with Jolene Cherry who in turn lost her deal with Sony. Judith had sued Jolene Cherry for breach of contract she sat around for two years doing nothing and watched as Mrs.Cherry leaked stories that Judith was a supporter of Kim Jong II !!! All of this stuff was in the media Sony and Cherry are crazy and I don't think Judith made a mistake getting away from that women.

I stand corrected. I was basing my comment on an article that I read which stated that Prince "Poached" Judith from Sony and that Sony was suing him.

tmo1965 said:

laurarichardson said:

tmo1965 said: --- Judith had a deal with Jolene Cherry who in turn lost her deal with Sony. Judith had sued Jolene Cherry for breach of contract she sat around for two years doing nothing and watched as Mrs.Cherry leaked stories that Judith was a supporter of Kim Jong II !!! All of this stuff was in the media Sony and Cherry are crazy and I don't think Judith made a mistake getting away from that women.

I stand corrected. I was basing my comment on an article that I read which stated that Prince "Poached" Judith from Sony and that Sony was suing him.

Yes, Sony sued Prince in March 2015 for producing Judith's album.

KRTREE said:

nursev said:

agreed...maybe he wouldve gotten help earlier if someone cared enough to say something.

Agree with NurseV and mintchip, If someone had cared enough to say something. It's not magical thinking it's addictive thinking. mintchip you hit the nail on the head. The brain gets hijacked. I don't think it was a conspiracy but certainly at least one other person knew, and for a while.

Addictions are horrifying and complicated. It would appear that P had approached the point of willingness to begin recovery. It was simply too late. Those from the rooms will be familiar with the quote that “you’re not done dancing with the gorilla until the gorilla is done dancing”. Fentanyl is like two to three gorillas. Professional break dancing gorillas who know how to anticipate your every move. My heart breaks for anyone struggling with this addiction.

I don't know. I have some experience with addiction with a family member, and there is little you can do if they don't want to get help or don't feel the need. It's not that you don't care, and often the help you want to give just makes it worse, especially if you're trying to force a strong-willed person, in particular (as my family member is), to get help.

Anyway, it almost seems like Prince was dependent and functional until the last few weeks, and then only beginning to be non-functional. At that stage you still trust the person when they promise you something (like that they're not going to take anything). It takes a LONG time to realize that you can't trust them. I also think that most people don't now just how dangerous fentanyl can be. Even in the case of my family member, I never got a straight answer on what prescription pain meds he was taking. Anyway, I think we're only getting part of the story and we really don't know what he told them to do. In hindsight I'm sure several people are kicking themselves.

I do think that it's a problem that Prince did not have anyone in his life who did't depend on him in some way (at least that we know of).

[Edited 7/13/16 8:07am]

I hope he had people around him who had genuine concern for the man and not the artist they were dependent on

BTW I don't think Kiran is jealous at all, I think she is just being protective and lets face it, we're only defaulting to jealousy because she is a woman being critical of another woman.

LuxLove said:

BTW I don't think Kiran is jealous at all, I think she is just being protective and lets face it, we're only defaulting to jealousy because she is a woman being critical of another woman.

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Kiran might have a business interest: she must remain professional to keep her business attractive to other (possible) customers.

Agree with teach49: there is little you can do if they don't want to get help or don't feel the need and that is where the willingness has come in. To me it looks like P had become willing given the calls to the addiction specialist. But what do I know?

KRTREE said:

rainbowchild said:

KRTREE said:

Agree with teach49: there is little you can do if they don't want to get help or don't feel the need and that is where the willingness has come in. To me it looks like P had become willing given the calls to the addiction specialist. But what do I know?

He got the "intervention" he needed but it came a day too late. I doubt we'll get over that fact soon including the people who was close to him-- especially to Judith Hill seeing what happened to him the week before his death; she probably feels some guilt for not seeking help sooner for him (including flying back to L.A. so soon after what happened; she could have stayed with Prince at PP until he got the help he needed).

She couldn't have stayed if Prince didn't want her to, same with Kirk or anyone else. I know Judith left cause she had a charity concert to perform. Prince probably made her go. We'll never know though, but he was alone for hours and hours that night for a reason and it probably wasn't cause those close to him didn't want to be around. It was probably cause he told them he was all right, don't worry, and they knew help would be there the next morning. sigh

KRTREE said:

Agree with teach49: there is little you can do if they don't want to get help or don't feel the need and that is where the willingness has come in. To me it looks like P had become willing given the calls to the addiction specialist. But what do I know?

I agree there appears to be willingness on his part. That's a dangerous place to be for him and confusing for those around him, although if it's the first time for you then you really don't know that. You just think to yourself. he knows he has problem and is getting help and there's plan in place. Unless you have experience with this sort of thing, you don't realize that he won't be able NOT to take something if it's available in the meantime. And, even if you are there, he still might manage to take something. It's nearly impossible to make an adult pee with the door open (and yes, my family member took things while people were home with him).

It's just so sad all around. I'm sure that his friends and loved ones feel awful. There's no judgement from me. I've been there.

teach49 said:

KRTREE said:

Agree with teach49: there is little you can do if they don't want to get help or don't feel the need and that is where the willingness has come in. To me it looks like P had become willing given the calls to the addiction specialist. But what do I know?

I agree there appears to be willingness on his part. That's a dangerous place to be for him and confusing for those around him, although if it's the first time for you then you really don't know that. You just think to yourself. he knows he has problem and is getting help and there's plan in place. Unless you have experience with this sort of thing, you don't realize that he won't be able NOT to take something if it's available in the meantime. And, even if you are there, he still might manage to take something. It's nearly impossible to make an adult pee with the door open (and yes, my family member took things while people were home with him).

It's just so sad all around. I'm sure that his friends and loved ones feel awful. There's no judgement from me. I've been there.

And the "pee with the door open" is a slight exaggeration. The point is that you cannot watch someone 24/7. At some point, you turn away or nodd off. He should have been in a hospital. Sigh.

Teach49, looks like we both have intimate knowledge of addiction. I partied like it was 1999 Until 1999, about 20 years! Been clean and sober since. A close girlfriend or mine died from Fentanyl two years ago. Took her 10 years and two stints at rehab but she eventually succumbed to it. It was just too easy to get and too hard quit. I wish more people knew, like you and I know, addiction is a mental illness. What folks need is help and not vilification and condemnation. Because there are millions of addicts walking the streets today, at your job, in their cars, everywhere. Not asking for help because of the stigma of drug addiction. Maybe this a yet another gift Prince will give to the world. A shift in perception around this pervasive issue.

KRTREE said:

A close girlfriend or mine died from Fentanyl two years ago. Took her 10 years and two stints at rehab but she eventually succumbed to it. It was just too easy to get and too hard quit.

Exactly. This is another reason why so much of the commentary here is frustrating. We don't know if Prince even would have agreed to the assistance the Kornfeld's would have offered. Or if it would have been right for him, or been successful. We don't know what might have happened prior (a Strib commenter implied there had been numerous previous overdoses over a longer time period).

All the wailing and blaming over what Judith or others should have done instead, or sooner, or differently, that help was just hours too late... it all denies and obfuscates so much of what we do know about dependency and addiction, and how little we know about what was really going on with Prince.

KRTREE said:

Teach49, looks like we both have intimate knowledge of addiction. I partied like it was 1999 Until 1999, about 20 years! Been clean and sober since. A close girlfriend or mine died from Fentanyl two years ago. Took her 10 years and two stints at rehab but she eventually succumbed to it. It was just too easy to get and too hard quit. I wish more people knew, like you and I know, addiction is a mental illness. What folks need is help and not vilification and condemnation. Because there are millions of addicts walking the streets today, at your job, in their cars, everywhere. Not asking for help because of the stigma of drug addiction. Maybe this a yet another gift Prince will give to the world. A shift in perception around this pervasive issue.

I am so sorry for your loss. That is so hard because there's so little that you can do when you're a friend. It was our fear for my nephew, who somehow survived three almost fatal overdoses (that his doctors said should have been fatal). He has been clean for about 10 years now, but the trauma to his body is great, and at 31 he is not in as good a shape as my 81 y/o father, believe it or not, and the doctors, even with his history, do encourage him to use pain medications because he is so often in great pain. It's scary to even think about because he would not survive the trauma of addiction and withdrawal again. It's so wonderful that you've been clean and sober for so long! It is heartening, as difficult as I'm sure it was for you to get well. And I know that it is difficult. (not sure why the font changed!)

I agree with everything you said about the stigma and it being a mental health issue. It's quite possible that the stigma affected the decisions Prince was making about his treatment, too, and that is so heartbreaking. There is so much we don't know about his situation. He and those close to him believed addiction was the most pressing issue, whatever other health problems he may have had. This may have all started because of hip and joint pain so that he could keep performing, and I know that pain is hard to bear, especially for a dancer like him (many of the dancers I know who perform into their 50s have had hip replacements...). In the end, though, the dependency/addiction was the most pressing problem and it can kill. I will say this: he did not look well...but addiction can make you look that sick. Not saying there wasn't more going on -- we don't know -- but it can absolutley make you look like that.

Still don't know much....but lots of speculation. I read where by law information can be released in 30 years in MN. I highly doubt I will still be on this earth then.

AA1slot said:

Still don't know much....but lots of speculation. I read where by law information can be released in 30 years in MN. I highly doubt I will still be on this earth then.

Prince's information would be so far down on my list of concerns at that point, heck if I even still remember at that point. Not even to mention being alive at that point. That sucks.

avajane said:

ACharmed1 said:

I know this is off topic but who was the girl on stage with P and 3EG at the Manchester (2014 I think)show? Penguin chick looks a lot like the girl on stage.

I believe that's Delilah, a UK singer. As far as the "Penguin girl" I actually do believe her and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's just that her incessant rambling on twitter of all places is inappropriate, distasteful and just plain tacky especially because Prince was such a private person. I understand it's her way of venting but surely there are more practical and dignified ways to do it. She should try writing him a letter each day and keeping the letter to herself as a keepsake. Trust me you can express far more in a letter with coherent paragraphs than you can in short tweets.

I believe that was Marissa Jack.

laurarichardson said:

Imagine if you will a woman in an intimate relationship with a celebrity.

There is a rumor that the celebrity has AIDS.

No one is quite sure if the woman has had an intimate relationship with that celebrity.

No one knows if the rumor is true (just a "rumor", remember).

Now, the celebrity is reported in a medical emergency and the word gets out.

She doesn't publicly provide details, nor does anyone else from the celebrity's camp.

They all hope and expect that he will get better out of the public eye.

The celebrity unexpectedly dies a week later. No one knows the cause of death. She doesn't offer any information publicly, not even her presence during the medical emergency a week earlier.

She starts thinking. Did she contract HIV? She better go get tested.

But what if the celebrity didn't have HIV? She doesn't know as she only heard rumors and the authorities are not yet releasing any details that would hint at HIV or anything at all.

Should she wait and get tested later? Hell no. She needs to get tested right away. If the test indicated HIV, she needs to get in charge of that situation right away. If she gets a negative result, then she can be relieved.

She takes the HIV test. If it was negative, they tell her that she is not out of the clear, as the HIV may not be detectable until a later date even though she may have been exposed to HIV some time ago.

The celebrity's autopsy results are publicly released. She looks to see if HIV, AIDS, or anything of the sort is mentioned. Are the rumors true? Or false? Drats, the public autopsy results don't answer that question, but merely indicate the presence of one drug responsible for the death, but no mention of any viral infection or the presence of other medication in the tissues, such as drugs for the treatment of immune system problems.

What does she do?

The authorities are investigating the prescription drug situation and the events of the medical emergency the week prior. They know she was present at the time. Others are going to whisper to the authorities. The public will eventually know of her being on the scene.

She agrees to be interviewed AFTER the autopsy results are publicized, so her story can match what little is known from the autopsy results. The story that she will have to relate to her family, friends, current and future partners, must be considered.

When the interviewer asks as to the nature of her relationship with the celebrity, she waffles. She doesn't confirm what may seem like an intimate relationship. If somehow it publicly comes out that there was a chance of HIV transmission, her acknowledgment of an intimate relationship will be a topic for her future relationships. If she knew for a fact that HIV was not a factor, she could perhaps be forthcoming with information as to a romantic relationship. If HIV is later determined to be a factor, maybe she can later publicly deny a romantic relationship with that celebrity.

She is waiting on the time to take the follow-up HIV test. If she eventually is cleared, whatever the status of the rumor, she can relax and avoid an uncomfortable conversation with her partner or future partners. If the rumor is later confirmed, but her follow-up test remains negative, she can tell her partner that she was never intimate with the celebrity. If the rumor is confirmed or at least if she does indeed have HIV, she can seek treatment confidentially.

She's covered either way, personally. She is doing what most anyone would do with the same situation and the same resources available.

morningsong said:

Given that she isn't the only young lady there'd be whispers about I'd say that's a very weak arguement. And another in a long attempt of threads to put Prince and AIDS together. Imagine a young woman worried about her damned career and the possiblity she put too many of her eggs in one basket makes a hellava lot more sense.

Morningsong, if you would read my post with a more neutral slant, you may detect that I am not trying to connect anyone with AIDS. I am referring to what may happen to a person when they hear a rumor. The connection does not need to be there in my scenario and I thought that I made that clear without having to post an all caps disclaimer.

Why do fans keep trying to give him aids based on nothing? ya'll really want this man to have suffered in his years.

many of prince's ladies have waffled on relationship questions before his death, so this isn't a new thing. hell, he waffled. lol

[Edited 7/17/16 19:07pm]