RiotPaisley said:

PurpleSkipper58 said:

Most feminists are obessed with rape culture [Edited 6/9/16 20:39pm]

What does that mean?

Because well- they kind of are. Well third wave feminists anyway.

I'm sorry, but I as a female do not believe that there is a 'culture' that accepts rape and promotes it in the west. Rape is a punishable crime, that's why if you do rape and get caught- you face repercussions from both the legal system and society. Nobody looks at a convicted rapist and says 'what a hero'. They are disgusted. So the whole idea of a rape culture is obsolete to me.

Also- the reason why lots of people are doubtful of people (women especially) of when someone reports a rape is due to the amount of people reporting fake rapes to get back at exes or whatever. That's just something that happens. It's not some patriarchal conspiracy theory to knock women down. Just the repurcussions of immature individuals taking advantage of a system and society that tends to demonise men before women- which leads me on to my next point.

h4rm0ny said:

Women rapists don't get enough coverage because people think women can't rape and men in particular consider boys that are raped "lucky". It's sad.

Honestly- if you think that's bad- under British law women technically CANNOT rape. Biologically anyways, because rape is defined under British law as something along the lines of 'forceful unwanted penetration'. Yep. That's right. Women can only be punished for Sexual Assault in my country- and that fucking disgusts me.

.

Slightly off topic, but why re-record the entire thing? Why not just remove the section of the vocal track spoken part where rape is referenced and replace it with a guitar solo (awesome!) or something? (or nothing extra)?

.

You would still have the entire song, it would still be 'art', and wouldn't (really) change the song in any way.

.

Am I missing something?

.

.

EDIT: I know that's only something Prince can answer, but it seems like from this conversation that it was not plausable to do that; the whole thing needed to be re-recorded.

.

(When I first 'aquired' that version many moons ago, I 'edited' the song to do just that - except I cut out that section completely.)

[Edited 6/10/16 4:41am]

[Edited 6/10/16 4:44am]

This thread needs a trigger warning...

Come on. The track was written & recorded at a time when Prince was still trying to be shocking. I don't believe Prince truly condoned or promoted rape anymore than incest. Like Sister, Extraloveable is looking to cross a line and grab attention. Prince himself probably felt it was too much as he didn't release it at the time and when he finally did, he self-censored. No reason to get bent out of shape about lyrics that technically we're not supposed to have heard.

Angelsoncrack said:

Why re-record it? Just like he has done since forever.. he has been diving into his vault for songs that fit, according to him, in the new album he is assembling. And he then updates them to the sound he wants for that album. Just like Irresistible Bitch was rerecorded for release as a B side, raspberry beret was rerecorded for ATWIAD, Strange relationship and other songs were re-done for Sign of the times, Eye No for Lovesexy, half the Grafitti Bridge album, and so on and so forth.

He's always looked for ideas in his own vault. I have to say, in some ways I prefer the new version.

As to the "rape" part.. he's not that well read and liked to play with peoples fantasies (sexual or otherwise). Rape fantasies are well known and documented, which is why he used it, but quite sparingly actually. I guess he didn't feel comfortable with it either. He even removed it in rerecording. I read it as shorthand for "you are completely irresistible", used in an unthinking way.

As to the offensive part.. the entire Morris Day/The Time character is offensive to me. The movie Purple Rain as well.. large parts are quite misogynistic. His sense of humor is often very funny. But just as often it is quite offensive and sexist. (see the "song" rollerskate, for instance)

Extra Loveable is innocuous, as far as all that is concerned, imho.

QueenofCardboard said:

mtlfan said:

It's ridiculous how great Prince was in 1982. An album consisting of Extraloveable, Do Yourself a Favor, Turn It Up, Moonbeam Levels, etc., would blow most bands off the map, but he had better.

Those songs are all great, so please tell me what songs fall in the etc. category.

I feel like I'm missing something but you're asking the wrong person, I'm new to the bootlegs.

sonshine said:

I have to say I didn't find that lyric as jarring as the slap he gave Apollonia in PR when I re-watched it last week for the first time in years. I know it's apples and oranges, but that's just my take on it.

But actual rape would be far worse than a slap. My attempted rapist didn't hurt me much. I had cuts to the hand that grabbed the blade - but other than that nothing. However, I had decided he would have had to knock me unconscious to manage to rape me. I had plans to attack every soft target on him. I didn't need to in the end. We never got past the fight over the knife - he knew what I was aiming for with it. I would have coped better with a physical attack than him raping me. I would rather have died and I don't say that lightly. I knew I would fight him to my death.

However, I don't think P was considering rape, just being a prat. I see the lyrics and the Apollonia slap (especially followed by absolutely pathetic behaviour not fitting to any woman) as equally poor taste.

djThunderfunk said:

This thread needs a trigger warning...

Come on. The track was written & recorded at a time when Prince was still trying to be shocking. I don't believe Prince truly condoned or promoted rape anymore than incest. Like Sister, Extraloveable is looking to cross a line and grab attention. Prince himself probably felt it was too much as he didn't release it at the time and when he finally did, he self-censored. No reason to get bent out of shape about lyrics that technically we're not supposed to have heard.

You are absolutely right.

Are you a man or a woman?

I am a woman

We shouldn't be mad at Prince over this song. He is allowed to go wherever his creative process takes him. Don't they say that men think about sex every seven seconds?

But the question isn't "Was Prince wrong to write a seduction/date rape song?"

The question was "How do you women FEEL about the song?"

Perhaps the question should be, "How does the song make you (women) FEEL?"

The words, "Don't make me ..." are pure intimidation / blame the victim words. I think that Prince was probably the victim more often than he was the perpetrator, so he would have understood nuances of both sides of the situation. The song might have been cathartic to him in some ways.

The threat part is said in a scary tone of voice with scary music behind it. It scares me. What also creeps me out is that he wants her/me to get in the bathtub, which brings to my mind the beginning of the music video for the song 'When Doves Cry'. In the beginning of that music video he is naked in a bathtub and he gets up and holds out his hand as if he is inviting her/me into the bathtub with him. There was always something creepy about that part of the music video to me, even before I heard the song Extralovable.

[Edited 6/10/16 15:44pm]

QueenofCardboard said:

djThunderfunk said:

This thread needs a trigger warning...

Come on. The track was written & recorded at a time when Prince was still trying to be shocking. I don't believe Prince truly condoned or promoted rape anymore than incest. Like Sister, Extraloveable is looking to cross a line and grab attention. Prince himself probably felt it was too much as he didn't release it at the time and when he finally did, he self-censored. No reason to get bent out of shape about lyrics that technically we're not supposed to have heard.

Your are absolutely right.

Are you a man or a woman?

I am a woman

We shouldn't be mad at Prince over this song. He is allowed to go wherever his creative process takes him. Don't they say that men think about sex every seven seconds?

But the question isn't "Was Prince wrong to write a seduction/date rape song?"

The question was "How do you women FEEL about the song?"

Perhaps the question should be, "How does the song make you (women) FEEL?"

The words, "Don't make me ..." are pure intimidation / blame the victim words. I think that Prince was probably the victim more often than he was the perpetrator, so he would have understood the nuances of both sides of the situation. The song might have been cathartic to him in some ways.

The threat part is said in a scary tone of voice with scary music behind it. It scares me. What also creeps me out is that he wants her/me to get in the bathtub, which brings to my mind the beginning of the music video for the song 'When Doves Cry'. In the beginning of that music video he is naked in a bathtub and he gets up and holds out his hand as if he is inviting her/me into the bathtub with him. There was always something creepy about that part of the music video to me, even before I heard the song Extralovable.

I liked the start of the "When Doves Cry" video. What is creepy about it?

What do you think P was the victim of?

Anyhow, if P wanted to write a song that showed a callous disregard for the victims of such abuse that is up to him. Shame on him though. At least he had the sense not to release it.

The difference between it and Sister is that he was portrayed as the victim in Sister. Could you imagine it the other way around, if his sister brought out a song about abusing P! Songs should not have abusers bragging, its puerile.

How does it make me feel - disgusted and disappointed by the person who wrote it.

Just to be clear, it is not the line "I'm on the verge of rape" that offends me. It doesn't mean to me "I am going to rape you". It is a bit tactless for those listeners that have been through it so a poor choice of wording but not an issue.

It is this next bit that riles me:

"I'm sorry, but I'm just gonna have to rape you
Now are you going to get into the tub or do I have to drag you?
Don't make me drag you
I can be very cruel"

Words can not express my disgust for this.

sunset3121 said:

I liked the start of the "When Doves Cry" video. What is creepy about it?

What do you think P was the victim of?

Anyhow, if P wanted to write a song that showed a callous disregard for the victims of such abuse that is up to him. Shame on him though. At least he had the sense not to release it.

The difference between it and Sister is that he was portrayed as the victim in Sister. Could you imagine it the other way around, if his sister brought out a song about abusing P! Songs should not have abusers bragging, its puerile.

How does it make me feel - disgusted and disappointed by the person who wrote it.

I am not sure what it is that is creepy about the beginning of 'When Doves Cry'. Perhaps it is the eerie music before the rest of the music is layered on to it, or the slow motion of the video.

I think that Prince was a victim of child abuse. (physical, emotional and probably sexual)

QueenofCardboard said:

sunset3121 said:

I liked the start of the "When Doves Cry" video. What is creepy about it?

What do you think P was the victim of?

Anyhow, if P wanted to write a song that showed a callous disregard for the victims of such abuse that is up to him. Shame on him though. At least he had the sense not to release it.

The difference between it and Sister is that he was portrayed as the victim in Sister. Could you imagine it the other way around, if his sister brought out a song about abusing P! Songs should not have abusers bragging, its puerile.

How does it make me feel - disgusted and disappointed by the person who wrote it.

I am not sure what it is that is creepy about the beginning of 'When Doves Cry'. Perhaps it is the eerie music before the rest of the music is layered on to it, or the slow motion of the video.

I think that Prince was a victim of child abuse. (physical, emotional and probably sexual)

Physical and emotional without a doubt. Sexual - who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

RiotPaisley said:

roxy831 said:

The rape part is unacceptable to me, but for some strange reason, his references to his father bothered me even more. I get it, it's probably fictional, it is art, but still disturbing. Reality, his father didn't die until 2001. I couldn't see myself ever singing anything like that, but yes, totally my opinion. It just made me wonder how messed up his childhood was....(that's the Sociologist, Psychologist in me. Sorry guys).

I caught that too. Great writers are basically great liars.

Yes, they are...

QueenofCardboard said:

terrig said:

I love it...as is.

Its ART and shouldnt be changed....it's not literal, its metaphorical... hence the sounds.....

You are right. It is art. I wouldn't change it. I am glad he wrote it. There is no such thing as thought crime.

[Edited 6/9/16 21:15pm]

The song would be great if he wouldn't have put that rape part in. I feel squeamish every time he says that. However, you can tell that Prince's testosterone level had really gone down from the time between the first and last recording, lol. I LOVE the first version much better, but not for that terrible rape part.

sharonbell said:

QueenofCardboard said:

You are right. It is art. I wouldn't change it. I am glad he wrote it. There is no such thing as thought crime.

[Edited 6/9/16 21:15pm]

The song would be great if he wouldn't have put that rape part in. I feel squeamish every time he says that. However, you can tell that Prince's testosterone level had really gone down from the time between the first and last recording, lol. I LOVE the first version much better, but not for that terrible rape part.

Generally, I love P's work in the high testosterone era. It was a strange time to be messing with those lyrics though when Denise was around with all that she had been through.

QueenofCardboard said:

Are you a man or a woman?

I'm a man. When I was a teenager, a girl who was a "friend" and who knew I wasn't interested in her tried to take advantage of me when I was passed out drunk. Luckily whiskey-dick is a real thing. Between that and a mutual friend who caught and interrupted her, she was unsuccessful. I saw her 10-15 years later and she pretended not to remember. Yeah, right.

So, I get it where the thread is coming from, but...
Prince didn't rape anybody. He didn't attempt to rape anybody. He didn't even threaten to rape anybody. The character in the song did that. Tasteless? Maybe. That's a matter of opinion. Regardless, it's fiction. And, as the creator of this fiction, Prince chose not to release it in that form, so maybe, he too thought it was tasteless or even potentially offensive.

I'm just sayin', don't judge an artist for art that he chose not to share and in fact self censored when he did share. It's not a good look. In my not-so-humble opinion of course...

[Edited 6/11/16 19:30pm]

djThunderfunk said:

QueenofCardboard said:

You are absolutely right.

Are you a man or a woman?

I am a woman

We shouldn't be mad at Prince over this song. He is allowed to go wherever his creative process takes him. Don't they say that men think about sex every seven seconds?

But the question isn't "Was Prince wrong to write a seduction/date rape song?"

The question was "How do you women FEEL about the song?"

Perhaps the question should be, "How does the song make you (women) FEEL?"

The words, "Don't make me ..." are pure intimidation / blame the victim words. I think that Prince was probably the victim more often than he was the perpetrator, so he would have understood nuances of both sides of the situation. The song might have been cathartic to him in some ways.

The threat part is said in a scary tone of voice with scary music behind it. It scares me. What also creeps me out is that he wants her/me to get in the bathtub, which brings to my mind the beginning of the music video for the song 'When Doves Cry'. In the beginning of that music video he is naked in a bathtub and he gets up and holds out his hand as if he is inviting her/me into the bathtub with him. There was always something creepy about that part of the music video to me, even before I heard the song Extralovable.

I'm a man. When I was a teenager, a girl who was a "friend" and who knew I wasn't interested in her tried to take advantage of me when I was passed out drunk. Luckily whiskey-dick is a real thing. Between that and a mutual friend who caught and interrupted her, she was unsuccessful. I saw her 10-15 years later and she pretended not to remember. Yeah, right.

So, I get it where the thread is coming from, but...
Prince didn't rape anybody. He didn't attempt to rape anybody. He didn't even threaten to rape anybody. The character in the song did that. Tasteless? Maybe. That's a matter of opinion. Regardless, it's fiction. And, as the creator of this fiction, Prince chose not to release it in that form, so maybe, he too thought it was tasteless or even potentially offensive.

I'm just sayin', don't judge an artist for art that he chose not to share and in fact self censored when he did share. It's not a good look. In my not-so-humble opinion of course...

Hmm, I don't think your experience was quite the same as mine. Drunk men frequently try to take advantage of drunk women, sometimes even the other way around. I have even had a female friend come to try it on when I told everyone at a party that I was feeling a bit too drunk and was going to bed early - that suprised me (in my young mind to try to hit on a drunk women was a very male thing to do but clearly it is not. It did not even feel uncomfortable like it would have been if it had been a man because she could not have overpowered me - we were on and equal footing, just suprising. She was obviously hoping I was a little more loose). It's not uncommon. Women have to be careful of being out of control without friends around to protect them, that's their daily reality. It always made me very careful and I never drank to anywhere close to the passing out stage and would never separate from friends.

However violated you may feel from imagining her trying to do something that couldn't physically happen, I tell you it is not even close to being stone cold sober, in broad daylight (all 3 of the incidents were in broad daylight - I always kept myself safe when out at night) being dragged around by a stranger around twice your size who has a knife to your throat.

Perhaps to get a better picture of how this would feel you should instead imagine a heavyweight boxer (a guy twice your weight) grabbing you and dragging you around at knifepoint and trying to shove his bits into you. Without it happening, you still could not imagine it.

So yes, I do judge him for how he chose to express himself in his art. He will have at least been vaguely aware of the devastating physical and emotional consequences of rape and did not give a damn. And I don't give a damn if you think its a good look or not - you have not walked in my shoes and you clearly couldn't care less how myself or the women who have been through much worse than I have feel. To give you a clue, another member of my family did not come out of it alive. That was broad daylight too.

However, I would probably forgive P virutally anything. I still love him. We all make stupid decisions daily and it is only a song - just a stupid one.

[Edited 6/13/16 15:39pm]

djThunderfunk said:

This thread needs a trigger warning...

Come on. The track was written & recorded at a time when Prince was still trying to be shocking. I don't believe Prince truly condoned or promoted rape anymore than incest. Like Sister, Extraloveable is looking to cross a line and grab attention. Prince himself probably felt it was too much as he didn't release it at the time and when he finally did, he self-censored. No reason to get bent out of shape about lyrics that technically we're not supposed to have heard.

Yes, I think this is EXACTLY what happened. Even Prince said on Arsenio, back then around those young days like being 20, it was all about pushing the envelop. How much could he do for shock value.

As for the "Father" part, look, it was just a lyric. It wasn't actually about his real father. Some people seem to take things very literally when it comes to Prince and some of his lyrics and antics, especially from way back then.

And now you have made me extemely upset. I don't find my attacks upsetting (I think my attacker was an idiot - he could have used his weight against me anytime but instead spent his time arm wrestling me for the knife - which he was clearly not cut out to win from the off. He obviously was only able to bully little girls). However, her death really hurts and you have made me think about the way he killed her.

sunset3121 said:

djThunderfunk said:

I'm a man. When I was a teenager, a girl who was a "friend" and who knew I wasn't interested in her tried to take advantage of me when I was passed out drunk. Luckily whiskey-dick is a real thing. Between that and a mutual friend who caught and interrupted her, she was unsuccessful. I saw her 10-15 years later and she pretended not to remember. Yeah, right.

So, I get it where the thread is coming from, but...
Prince didn't rape anybody. He didn't attempt to rape anybody. He didn't even threaten to rape anybody. The character in the song did that. Tasteless? Maybe. That's a matter of opinion. Regardless, it's fiction. And, as the creator of this fiction, Prince chose not to release it in that form, so maybe, he too thought it was tasteless or even potentially offensive.

I'm just sayin', don't judge an artist for art that he chose not to share and in fact self censored when he did share. It's not a good look. In my not-so-humble opinion of course...

Hmm, I don't think your experience was quite the same as mine. Drunk men frequently try to take advantage of drunk women, sometimes even the other way around. I have even had a female friend come to try it on when I told everyone at a party that I was feeling a bit too drunk and was going to bed early - that suprised me (in my young mind to try to hit on a drunk women was a very male thing to do but clearly it is not. It did not even feel uncomfortable like it would have been if it had been a man because she could not have overpowered me - we were on and equal footing, just suprising. She was obviously hoping I was a little more loose). It's not uncommon. Women have to be careful of being out of control without friends around to protect them, that's their daily reality. It always made me very careful and I never drank to anywhere close to the passing out stage and would never separate from friends.

However violated you may feel from imagining her trying to do something that couldn't physically happen, I tell you it is not even close to being stone cold sober, in broad daylight (all 3 of the incidents were in broad daylight - I always kept myself safe when out at night) being dragged around by a stranger around twice your size who has a knife to your throat.

Perhaps to get a better picture of how this would feel you should instead imagine a heavyweight boxer (a guy twice your weight) grabbing you and dragging you around at knifepoint and trying to shove his bits into you. Without it happening, you still could not imagine it.

So yes, I do judge him for how he chose to express himself in his art. He will have at least been vaguely aware of the devastating physical and emotional consequences of rape and did not give a damn. And I don't give a damn if you think its a good look or not - you have not walked in my shoes and you clearly couldn't care less how myself or the women who have been through much worse than I have feel. To give you a clue, another member of my family did not come out of it alive. The guy set her body on fire afterwards. That was broad daylight too.

However, I would probably forgive P virutally anything. I still love him. We all make stupid decisions daily and it is only a song - just a stupid one.

It was not my intention to compare my own experiences to yours. Sorry if it came across that way.

It is my intention to defend Prince against any criticism against lyrics that remain unpublished. Cool?

sunset3121 said:

And now you have made me extemely upset. I don't find my attacks upsetting (I think my attacker was an idiot - he could have used his weight against me anytime but instead spent his time arm wrestling me for the knife - which he was clearly not cut out to win from the off. He obviously was only able to bully little girls). However, her death really hurts and you have made me think about the way he killed her.

I did no such thing. Perhaps this thread really does need the trigger warning I joked about above.

The world is not a "safe space". If you are triggered by this discussion or by any of the comments I have made then perhaps you should choose not to participate in a thread with a topic you find so upsetting. Sorry about your experiences but if you find any of my statements in this thread to be inflammatory then you are being too sensitive in my opinion.

djThunderfunk said:

sunset3121 said:

And now you have made me extemely upset. I don't find my attacks upsetting (I think my attacker was an idiot - he could have used his weight against me anytime but instead spent his time arm wrestling me for the knife - which he was clearly not cut out to win from the off. He obviously was only able to bully little girls). However, her death really hurts and you have made me think about the way he killed her.

I did no such thing. Perhaps this thread really does need the trigger warning I joked about above.

The world is not a "safe space". If you are triggered by this discussion or by any of the comments I have made then perhaps you should choose not to participate in a thread with a topic you find so upsetting. Sorry about your experiences but if you find any of my statements in this thread to be inflammatory then you are being too sensitive in my opinion.

I am not saying you meant to but comparing your experience to ours (which was violent and life threatening/deadly) made me think about it. Now I am in a lot of pain.

sunset3121 said:

djThunderfunk said:

I did no such thing. Perhaps this thread really does need the trigger warning I joked about above.

The world is not a "safe space". If you are triggered by this discussion or by any of the comments I have made then perhaps you should choose not to participate in a thread with a topic you find so upsetting. Sorry about your experiences but if you find any of my statements in this thread to be inflammatory then you are being too sensitive in my opinion.

I am not saying you meant to but comparing your experience to ours (which was violent and life threatening/deadly) made me think about it. Now I am in a lot of pain.

I did not compare experiences, that's just how you interpreted it.

QueenofCardboard asked if I was man or woman. When answering I chose to share my own admittedly mild experience but I did not compare that experience to your own. In fact I had not even addressed you or any of your comments at that time.

I did not make you think about anything nor am I the cause of your pain. By implying that even though I did not mean it I still did it you are suggesting that I have committed a micro-aggression against you and am responsible for your feelings. The truth is, I have committed no aggression and you are responsible for your own feelings.

Sorry, but I will not participate in politically correct self censorship out of a fear of offending people that are overly sensitive about any particular topic because I find the concept to be offensive in a free society and in conflict with freedom of speech and thought.

Back to topic on hand: I stand by my opinion that the lyrics do not represent Prince, but rather an artistic fictional situation that he wrote at a time when it was his goal to be shocking, provocative and yes even offensive. Since he chose to self-censor upon release and to leave those lyrics unpublished it is in my opinion unfair to criticize or condemn him as if by writing them he was promoting rape. Just. Sayin'!!

djThunderfunk said:

sunset3121 said:

I am not saying you meant to but comparing your experience to ours (which was violent and life threatening/deadly) made me think about it. Now I am in a lot of pain.

I did not compare experiences, that's just how you interpreted it.

QueenofCardboard asked if I was man or woman. When answering I chose to share my own admittedly mild experience but I did not compare that experience to your own. In fact I had not even addressed you or any of your comments at that time.

I did not make you think about anything nor am I the cause of your pain. By implying that even though I did not mean it I still did it you are suggesting that I have committed a micro-aggression against you and am responsible for your feelings. The truth is, I have committed no aggression and you are responsible for your own feelings.

Sorry, but I will not participate in politically correct self censorship out of a fear of offending people that are overly sensitive about any particular topic because I find the concept to be offensive in a free society and in conflict with freedom of speech and thought.

Back to topic on hand: I stand by my opinion that the lyrics do not represent Prince, but rather an artistic fictional situation that he wrote at a time when it was his goal to be shocking, provocative and yes even offensive. Since he chose to self-censor upon release and to leave those lyrics unpublished it is in my opinion unfair to criticize or condemn him as if by writing them he was promoting rape. Just. Sayin'!!

You gave your experience and then said so you get where the thread is coming from. This is wording about a man (physically stronger) dragging around, being cruel and raping a woman. You have no idea where it is coming from. Unless people have tried to violently rape you how would you know?

The thread asks women what they think about it - and so I gave my opinion - and you tell me I should not be on the thread!

What you said did make me think about it. I wasn't thinking about it until then. I was keeping to my own experience which is safer in my mind.

I don't believe in sensorship either. He could say what he likes and I can say that is vile, disgusting and infantile. After all, I have been through that and he and you have not. It is certainly not unfair to criticize it. If he puts it out there, I can say what I like about it. I think in the end though, he agreed with me. He grew up.

SELF DELETED

[Edited 6/11/16 11:24am]

[Edited 6/11/16 16:36pm]

[Edited 6/11/16 17:31pm]

sunset3121 said:

You gave your experience and then said so you get where the thread is coming from. This is wording about a man (physically stronger) dragging around, being cruel and raping a woman. You have no idea where it is coming from. Unless people have tried to violently rape you how would you know?

The thread asks women what they think about it - and so I gave my opinion - and you tell me I should not be on the thread!

What you said did make me think about it. I wasn't thinking about it until then. I was keeping to my own experience which is safer in my mind.

I don't believe in sensorship either. He could say what he likes and I can say that is vile, disgusting and infantile. After all, I have been through that and he and you have not. It is certainly not unfair to criticize it. If he puts it out there, I can say what I like about it. I think in the end though, he agreed with me. He grew up.

1. At least now I know what I said that set you off. Perhaps my wording about "getting it" was poor, but, really, I was not addressing you, your comments or comparing anything. When it comes to your specific situation, clearly, I don't "get it".

2. My suggestion regarding whether you should be on the thread or not was a response to the fact that you have obviously been "triggered" by the discussion. I logically concluded that if you are so sensitive then perhaps you should CHOOSE to avoid the thread.

3. I did not MAKE you THINK about anything. That's nonsense. I am not responsible for the thoughts in your head.

4. Prince did not "put it out there". If you have heard the original version of Extraloveable then you have listened to an unreleased bootleg. This goes back to my whole point for ever participating in this thread. The lyrics remain unpublished because he chose to self-censor, to judge him in this situation is completely unfounded.

[Edited 6/11/16 11:05am]

If the people who were affected by the lyrics all avoided the thread what would be the point of asking the question? I am also old enough to decide for myself what I engage in thank you.

You are right, you did not make me think about anything, just what you said triggered these thoughts. Your right, your choice of wording was poor.

If Prince was bothered about it getting out there it would have been with Wally.

QueenofCardboard said:

sunset3121 said:

I am not saying you meant to but comparing your experience to ours (which was violent and life threatening/deadly) made me think about it. Now I am in a lot of pain.

I am sorry. I am the one that started the thread, and I almost didn't start it because I was afraid something like this might happen. I am Very Very Sorry. We are all afraid that we might put our feet in our mouths and set you off. I am so sorry that you are in so much pain right now, and I feel like it is my fault. I should never have started this thread. I am sorry.

I only participated in the thread to make the point that Prince was not trying to promote rape with the lyrics, he was trying to be shocking and to offend, and since he himself self censored and the lyrics remain unpublished it is therefore unfair to judge him harshly for them.

I did not address anyone else's comments except in response.

Are we to be so sensitive to emotional issues others may have that we avoid whole topics? Of course we shouldn't. Should I not make the point above because it's insensitive to another's feelings? The world is not a safe space and neither is the org. It's the responsibility of the individual to avoid engaging in conversations they find too upsetting to handle.

Do we really want to all worry that we might accidently set off someone that is not capable of having a specific conversation. Is that where we're at? I say it's nonsense.

I'm sorry for the very real pain this person has experienced and for the emotional issues that have resulted. I'm not willing to limit what I say because I might set someone off.

The thread did not cause anything that you should be sorry for.

[Edited 6/11/16 19:34pm]

Rape culture doesn't exist because a society's reaction to it is one of obvious acceptance in the form of hand claps, pro-rape placards, or organized gatherings to discuss the positives of rape. No, rape culture exists with its denigration of the actual incident of rape. Referring to the Stanford case, the reporting of the rape and then ending such a story with the rapists swim times is an example. The comment from the father that his son shouldn't be punished for "20 minutes of action" is another. His light sentence because the judge didn't want to mess this kid's life up is yet another. And hearing newsreporters on major network television referring to the incident as sexual misconduct truly undermines the incident in yet another example of rape culture.

Anyway, the lyric does bother me. I love subersiveness in rock. I think he just went too far with this one.