babynoz said:

McD said:

A Prince fan can only follow the music. Not his mental plane. Which was full of broken bottles and hypocrisy. This is someone who started to break up words and act according to their component parts. Who believed in fairy tales and chemtrails. Watch that shameful Tavis Smiley 2009 interview. Ignore if you can how good he looks and how well he speaks. He might be as far in appearance from the last decade of Bobby Fischer, but his mindless, racist ranting is just as bad. And Smiley is horrifyingly complicit in the whole thing. The moment he ignores a plethora of barking mad and offensive BS to say *his* fans need to know why the man espousing theocratic order isn't a supporter of Obama truly beggars belief. The tragedy for Prince is he had too many Tavis Smileys in his life and not enough Kevin Smiths.

I'm looking forward to the day when people like you stop trying to speak for others...

Prince's mental journey was unique. And not in a good way. Hypocrisy reigned supreme. So, if I'm not speaking for everyone, you've gone through periods of the following then? And technically, you would not only have to follow this, but in the same order as Prince, to follow his mental journey. Anyhow...

.

- would not have a blood tranfusion, even at risk to life

- regretted attending any Prince concert pre-1993

- regretted the content of pre-JW Prince albums, refusing to listen to certain songs any more

- refused to sign your name to any kind of contract, whether for a job, a house, or a phone

- refused to be in any situation where you had a MANager, as you were already a MAN or a woMAN

- believed an airborne chemical conspiracy was causing violence in the (handpicked) streets of America and tried to convince everyone you know of the truth of this

- refused to vote, believing the leader of the JW was the rightful ruler of America, and refused to play the game until that prophesied date

- disapproved of homosexuality, and, indeed, homosexuals. Refused to work with them

.

This is just a taster. Yes, I have taken the liberty of saying you didn't follow Prince into these mental states as and when he was in them. Or even at the convenience of your own chronology. If you are claiming you saw sense in all of the above, never mind FOLLOWED it, by all means say so.

McD said:

babynoz said:

I'm looking forward to the day when people like you stop trying to speak for others...

Prince's mental journey was unique. And not in a good way. Hypocrisy reigned supreme. So, if I'm not speaking for everyone, you've gone through periods of the following then? And technically, you would not only have to follow this, but in the same order as Prince, to follow his mental journey. Anyhow...

.

- would not have a blood tranfusion, even at risk to life

- regretted attending any Prince concert pre-1993

- regretted the content of pre-JW Prince albums, refusing to listen to certain songs any more

- refused to sign your name to any kind of contract, whether for a job, a house, or a phone

- refused to be in any situation where you had a MANager, as you were already a MAN or a woMAN

- believed an airborne chemical conspiracy was causing violence in the (handpicked) streets of America and tried to convince everyone you know of the truth of this

- refused to vote, believing the leader of the JW was the rightful ruler of America, and refused to play the game until that prophesied date

- disapproved of homosexuality, and, indeed, homosexuals. Refused to work with them

.

This is just a taster. Yes, I have taken the liberty of saying you didn't follow Prince into these mental states as and when he was in them. Or even at the convenience of your own chronology. If you are claiming you saw sense in all of the above, never mind FOLLOWED it, by all means say so.

That's a pretty stupid analysis. Being able to follow his train of thought does not mean being in agreement with everything he says and does. I think the term you are looking for is obey.

Prince was about a whole lot more than JW doctrine but most of it appears to have gone over your head.

Therefore unlike you I am able to follow his mental plane and I reiterate that I AM in agreement with MOST, not ALL of his views.

I made a thread sharing the L4OA essays that an npgmc music club member sent me several years ago, so I do find a lot of value in the ideas he shared. I never said that I obeyed his every word.

You will never have any insight into people if you lack the ability to understand their vision from their perspective. You should take the liberty to learn that skill instead of taking liberties to speak for other people.

emesem said:

I find alot of what he wrote here and presumably truely believed at the time is dangeriously authoritarian and narrow minded. This is the beggining of the "theocratic order" that saw its full bloom in TRC. When Prince talks about us all becomming "one" and the "freedom not to choose", its about taking away free will and diversity of opinion. Prince's ideal is everyone believe the same, thinking the same, doing the same. All submissive to what he calls "God". (Sound like the Taliban or ISIS too you?).

There is really nothing authoritarian in the OP.

You can't take a line from a song and extrapolate conclusions. He wrote a song called "Call the law" - that doesn't mean Prince was a police informant.

The "Theocratic order" he mentions on TRC - Has any woman stated that Prince saw her as anything less than an equal?

Very dangerous and this sort of thinking comes out of fear, lack of self confidence and inablity to live in the "grey". This is mind that has closed off all desire to percieve or judge for itself but rather one that has given up, ceded all choice and just wants to be lead because they are tired of thinking or do not want the responsiblity of choice.

A lot of what he said in the one-song speech is or at least was in theory, kind of backed up by our understanding of quantum mechanics (at the time) ie everything being connected...

I've no doubt he was (in a way) fearful of where music was going. He grew up listening to the people we call LEGEND. Songs about having fun, dancing etc. By the mid-90s suddenly music was about male posturing, guns, drugs, & violence. People were going to clubs and dancing to songs about killing people. Gunshot sounds were used as percussion.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a very interesting song... However there is no fear mongering or any sign he had given up. Just someone studying the bible and bringing it to his music. Sprinkled with a bit of controversy to get the fans talking.

As far as religion in general, he plagiarized the bible on "God"... so it's nothing he hasn't been saying his whole career.

NorthC said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, the older I get the more this race breaks ol pete's heart. But gotta be somewhere you can go. gotta be.

Still trying to find your way back home? Me too...

Well, i'll say this, the more i see and the older I get, the next world is not something i fear much, like prince, it's almost welcome. That's not to say I am not thankful to be alive, life is still wonderful.

PeteSilas said:

Prince was correct about the influence of the things going in your senses. It goes way past tv, it goes to the people you allow around you. Some people bring you up, some bring you down. You do have a choice about those things.

Quoted for emphasis,

babynoz said:

AnonymousFan said:

babynoz said:

I believed that before Prince said it and still do. I avoid media that contains excess violence and gore.

I love Prince's stream of consciousness/non linear way of thinking. It resonates with me because I have similar thoughts.

If the OP is a linear thinker like most people are then a lot of the way Prince expresses himself won't make sense to them. The week he passed, I posted some of his L4OA essays that give a lot of insight into his thought processes but there was little interest in them, so I stopped.

I was on that thread. Will you please post some more of his essays?

New ones were posted today.

PeteSilas said:

NorthC said:

PeteSilas said:

Well, i'll say this, the more i see and the older I get, the next world is not something i fear much, like prince, it's almost welcome. That's not to say I am not thankful to be alive, life is still wonderful.

You know, you don't have to die to enter the next world. You mentioned animism, or shamanism, in another post and the whole concept of shamanism is that one can travel from one world, or reality, or state of consciousness, to another in one's mind. I always figured that's what Way Back Home and other songs on AOA are about. That's my interpretation anyway.

ya, but i'm too citified i'm out of touch with my roots, all i can do is read and listen to the elders. the world isn't the same either, sometimes i wonder if the earth itself is afraid of us now and won't help us or do anything like it used to. Animals that used to communicate with us, powers we used to have, gone.

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

McD said:

babynoz said:

That's a pretty stupid analysis. Being able to follow his train of thought does not mean being in agreement with everything he says and does. I think the term you are looking for is obey.

Prince was about a whole lot more than JW doctrine but most of it appears to have gone over your head.

Therefore unlike you I am able to follow his mental plane and I reiterate that I AM in agreement with MOST, not ALL of his views.

I made a thread sharing the L4OA essays that an npgmc music club member sent me several years ago, so I do find a lot of value in the ideas he shared. I never said that I obeyed his every word.

You will never have any insight into people if you lack the ability to understand their vision from their perspective. You should take the liberty to learn that skill instead of taking liberties to speak for other people.

Everything you've just said also applies to 'following' Hitler. In fact, even more so, since his behaviour was more predictable and he stuck to his own script far more rigidly. My point was, many celebrities have a known and long documented, sometimes changing, worldview. Be it Madonna, Bill Maher, George Clooney, Bruce Springsteen or whoever. You could theoretically be with these people every step of the way. Prince? No. It's too much of an insane ride. I mean who goes from being way ahead of the curve on the gay issue, to becoming an old bigot? Who goes from being a contract enforcer and signing $100m contracts themselves (pushing his managemeant very hard to get it) to then say they are a slave because of it? Prince treated people poorly, but as a once-in-a-century talent, they put up with it longer than they otherwise would have. Not only was Prince pretty nuts, he pretty much was never called on it. Would it have made a difference? I'm not sure. But who were all these white people leaving Paisley Park convinced about chemtrails, per his claims to Tavis Smiley? I'm guessing there wasn't a single one. And all the religious coverage on UK television he claimed to witness, way more than in the US, he said?? He was completely delusional. I'd even go as far to say the UK has waaaay less than 1% of the USA's coverage on that issue. But should WE call him on it? Absolutely. If Prince wasn't - music aside - an almost comical figure, he might have been dangerous. He opened an album just a dozen years ago giving shocking advice on how you should treat your immune system, giving the impression he was quoting biology. He wasn't. He was trying to turn concertgoers to his theocratic desire. If there is any danger in people being influenced by Prince 'the thinker', and you're telling me there is, then it's important to call BS where it's due. And in the last interview with him I've come across (Ebony), he was again ranting on religion, telling us that one of the benefits the faithful would reap is living longer than the non believers.

My only point to you was to speak for yourself. Unlike you I'm not trying to force my understanding of Prince on other people.

You are the same guy who insisted that we all "follow" TMZ as the only source of news regarding Prince, right? You never learned how to have an opinion without being opinionated. Moreso than Prince, even.

There's a name for people who resort to "Hitler" analogies in a debate,

https://en.wikipedia.org/...dwin's_law

NorthC said:

^There's certain plant spirits that can help, like the ayahuasca, the San Pedro and the peyote. They helped me get back in touch with myself and the earth. Of course the Prince songs aren't about that, but what he describes in songs like Way Back Home is very much like what I experienced with those plants: entering another, higher state of mind. Once again, my own interpretation. [Edited 5/25/16 14:37pm]

i think his third eye ideas are about that, some people on here thought he may have been using dmt recently. I'm wary of drugs, i know that my people used things like peyote etc.., but we aren't the same either. I always point out how tobacco used to be for only sacred purposes, now it's just for coping with stress. People can't do what they used to do and not find themselves in trouble.

McD said:

babynoz said:

That's a pretty stupid analysis. Being able to follow his train of thought does not mean being in agreement with everything he says and does. I think the term you are looking for is obey.

Prince was about a whole lot more than JW doctrine but most of it appears to have gone over your head.

Therefore unlike you I am able to follow his mental plane and I reiterate that I AM in agreement with MOST, not ALL of his views.

I made a thread sharing the L4OA essays that an npgmc music club member sent me several years ago, so I do find a lot of value in the ideas he shared. I never said that I obeyed his every word.

You will never have any insight into people if you lack the ability to understand their vision from their perspective. You should take the liberty to learn that skill instead of taking liberties to speak for other people.

Everything you've just said also applies to 'following' Hitler. In fact, even more so, since his behaviour was more predictable and he stuck to his own script far more rigidly. My point was, many celebrities have a known and long documented, sometimes changing, worldview. Be it Madonna, Bill Maher, George Clooney, Bruce Springsteen or whoever. You could theoretically be with these people every step of the way. Prince? No. It's too much of an insane ride. I mean who goes from being way ahead of the curve on the gay issue, to becoming an old bigot? Who goes from being a contract enforcer and signing $100m contracts themselves (pushing his managemeant very hard to get it) to then say they are a slave because of it? Prince treated people poorly, but as a once-in-a-century talent, they put up with it longer than they otherwise would have. Not only was Prince pretty nuts, he pretty much was never called on it. Would it have made a difference? I'm not sure. But who were all these white people leaving Paisley Park convinced about chemtrails, per his claims to Tavis Smiley? I'm guessing there wasn't a single one. And all the religious coverage on UK television he claimed to witness, way more than in the US, he said?? He was completely delusional. I'd even go as far to say the UK has waaaay less than 1% of the USA's coverage on that issue. But should WE call him on it? Absolutely. If Prince wasn't - music aside - an almost comical figure, he might have been dangerous. He opened an album just a dozen years ago giving shocking advice on how you should treat your immune system, giving the impression he was quoting biology. He wasn't. He was trying to turn concertgoers to his theocratic desire. If there is any danger in people being influenced by Prince 'the thinker', and you're telling me there is, then it's important to call BS where it's due. And in the last interview with him I've come across (Ebony), he was again ranting on religion, telling us that one of the benefits the faithful would reap is living longer than the non believers.

you're taking any of it farther than I would. Springsteen and elvis had ideals that they really didn't mean either, if you get angry at them because of it, it just tells me you haven't grown up. there is a local writer, charles cross who i spoke to about bruce, he never (or rarely) has a good word to say about him. bruce's "fans" or critics call him a hypocrite too. If you raise the bar too high there is no man fit to be a hero, i've studied many great ones and they fuckup and embarass themselves badly.

also, Prince's white fans won't want to hear this but he was a black man and most black men think alot more suspiciously about the world around them, always have. I think they take it too far a lot of the time but I also try to be careful not to invalidate their experience. Ultimately, i understand the root of the problem and the paranoia.

they say (and I don't know) that he always carried a Bible around. How much of it did he believe in? free will is given by God. and then there's this thing about Jesus....

Prince was online late at night during much of that time (cf. "My Computer"), having long conversations (sometimes 4+ hours) with small groups of people, or one-on-one, centered mainly around spirituality. And he was huge into word play at this time, moreso than any other period of his life (imho). The L4OA essays (not all written by Prince) and the "One Song" (uni+verse) speech and lyrics were all born out of those pre-JW late night online spiritual discussions via chatrooms, IMs, and email. Much of that ended when Larry Graham and him became good friends, and he decided to seek Larry as his main spiritual mentor and counselor, cutting off contact with many others who used to be included in the previously intimate and more opnminded discussions. That's also when you see the spiritual rhetoric of the L4OA articles become more JW-influenced. Soon after, the L4OA website closed, with Prince posting nothing else but the "One Song" video (speech and song), which was very much a culmination of his pre-JW free-thinking yet mostly Judeo-Christian-based spirituality.

.

.

"we r all the rtist" 0(+>

.

.

+soulsplash

keep the vibe alive ~

just blows me away he never let that one out in perfect quality. can't understand it

babynoz said:

McD said:

McD said:

babynoz said:

My only point to you was to speak for yourself. Unlike you I'm not trying to force my understanding of Prince on other people.

You are the same guy who insisted that we all "follow" TMZ as the only source of news regarding Prince, right? You never learned how to have an opinion without being opinionated. Moreso than Prince, even.

There's a name for people who resort to "Hitler" analogies in a debate,

https://en.wikipedia.org/...dwin's_law

And now you're doing a Prince and trying to 'breakdown' the meaning of 'opinion', adding a pointless Wiki post, all whilst not dealing with a single point I've made about how a normal person wouldn't go along with Prince's mental journey, or deal with a single example about how crazy a lot of his thinking was. Would it work for you if I put it this way - you could support Prince's musical journey from start to finish. His mental journey? No. Just stick to two things if you'd like. Do you believe in the chemtrails conspiracy? And do you discriminate against gay people? These are two of Prince's biggest known mental leanings of this century. As for 'TMZ', you'll notice that practically ALL debate on Prince's death on this site and elsewhere is based around TMZ's 'exclusives'. Even those slating them and claiming they are wrong have, as far as I can see, done so whilst accepting facts that have only come from that source.

You see Prince as dim but you seem unable to grasp a single concept. You keep trying to engage me in a discussion when that was never my intention. You made a dumb, blanket statement...

"A Prince fan can only follow the music. Not his mental plane."

And my only point to you was......

STOP. TRYING. TO. SPEAK. FOR. OTHER. PEOPLE!!!!!!!

That's the third time I've said it. Please show me exactly where I tried to persuade you to change your opinion? Once again, let me be clear. I am NOT interested in discussng Prince's ideas with you because I think that you are the one who is dim, not Prince.

The majority of people on this thread apparently have no problem following Prince's thoughts either, so it isn't just me.

Therefore, I reiterate that my ONLY point to you was that you are NOT the org members representative or spokesperson....

STOP. TRYING. TO. SPEAK. FOR. OTHER. PEOPLE!!!!!

Get it now? Good, because I have nothing further to say to someone who would stoop so low as to compare Prince to Hitler FFS!

cardinal said:

McD said:

And now you're doing a Prince and trying to 'breakdown' the meaning of 'opinion', adding a pointless Wiki post, all whilst not dealing with a single point I've made about how a normal person wouldn't go along with Prince's mental journey, or deal with a single example about how crazy a lot of his thinking was. Would it work for you if I put it this way - you could support Prince's musical journey from start to finish. His mental journey? No. Just stick to two things if you'd like. Do you believe in the chemtrails conspiracy? And do you discriminate against gay people? These are two of Prince's biggest known mental leanings of this century. As for 'TMZ', you'll notice that practically ALL debate on Prince's death on this site and elsewhere is based around TMZ's 'exclusives'. Even those slating them and claiming they are wrong have, as far as I can see, done so whilst accepting facts that have only come from that source.

i don't think anyone has to be abnormal to appreciate prince's mental or spiritual journey, nor do i think he was crazy for having it. to take your examples chemtrails..do i believe they exist? i have not studied it enough to come down on one side or the other, but i am open to it. as far as prince's stance goes, i can understand it...do governments (even ours) sometimes do untoward things and keep this from the citizenry? hmmm let me think for a second...OF COURSE THEY DO! that prince believed this possibility existed for chemtrails does not make him a lunatic imo gay rights....i have serious doubts that prince was as homophobic or anti gay rights as has been portrayed....it is in the interest of media favorable to gay rights to paint him as another bigoted anti gay religious nut. but even if he was not in favor of gay rights, it does not make him nuts. does it make him bigoted? everyone will have to come to their own conclusion on that. i support gay rights and would be in disagreement with him on that, if that was the way he felt. but being in agreement with everything a person believes is not necessary imo in order to appreciate and understand their journey. when chris christie endorsed donald trump, someone asked him why he endorsed him when he did not agree with all his policies. he responded with something like "if you are only going to support those you are in 100% agreement with, go home and look in the mirror. because that is the only person you will agree with all the time." i can follow, understand and learn from prince's journey without having been in agreement with every thought he ever had. and the disagreement does not have to mean that either he or i are nuts.

Thank. You!

You said it much better and with a lot more patience than I did, so maybe it will get through this time.

babynoz said:

cardinal said:

babynoz said:

Thank. You!

You said it much better and with a lot more patience than I did, so maybe it will get through this time.

i like your spirited responses, too!

Thanks.

I tell ya.....