babynoz said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

My question is can fentanyl be abused for a period of years? I ask because people keep quoting some drug dealer in the daily mail who claims he was selling Prince excessive amounts of fentanyl for several years.

Sure.

Patients prescribed fentanyl patches build up tolerance to the medication very quickly. It is likely Prince tried quitting cold sober but couldn't and put on a patch (or 2 patches) when he was sober to account for his pain but not account for his tolerance because just as quickly as you build up tolerance to Fentanyl when you are on that medication is as quickly as you lose tolerance when you are off it. Therefore the 'sudden' reexposure to that medicine when you have no tolerance to it becomes too much.

[Edited 6/2/16 14:54pm]

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

starkitty said:

wow. fentanyl is no joke. if you look on the equianalgesic chart, it's about 50-100x stronger than morphine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equianalgesic

and here we were worried about percocet.

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

My first gut wrenching thought. I'd never heard that medication in relation to hip surgery and I wondered whether he was prescribed that medication or not.

Can anyone speak to the side effects a save shot? If it's true that he had been using for years, I wonder if it's true that the save shot could have sent him into a withdrawal his body couldn't handle.

In the end, why he died doesn't change my perception of Prince or my love for the man. It doesn't change the fact that earth benefitted from his presence here and that benefit was culled from many aspects of his humanhood, not just his music. But got damn is it hard to not be curious about why he left us prematurely.

I'm beginning to hit the 'I hate these updates' phase, tho. It feels like he died again today.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Smookie said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

I'd bet a buck or two that he was obtaining fentanyl illicitly. I think that's why the DEA was brought in and this revelation has been delayed while they investigate the source. CNN said no prescription source has been discovered for fentanyl. And reportedly Schulenberger did not prescribe it. And street versions are unreliable - you can't know what you're truly getting when it's obtained through the back channels. After ODing in the plane and then taking it again (if not sooner) a week later, he was playing with fire. No wonder his peeps were desperately seeking treatment. And I bet he said "I'm fine, leave me and I'll see you tomorrow" to whoever dropped him off at PP. But one thing I know from direct experience is that addicts lie. They just lie to your face, they promise "no more" and then they do. I now believe he was an addict. I hate addiction. It's a horrible disease which damages not just the addict but those around them. I have a family member who I believe is addicted to fentanyl or some other synthetic opioid. She denies, denies, denies, lies, lies and lies. And there's a wall around her protecting her secret world. It's impenetratable. You can't reach someone who will not allow you to get close. I think that's why I'm so affected by this. I'm so scared my family member is going to be found dead one day.

ya, at some point, with age it gets tempting to just say "fuck em" doesn't it? I hate addiction too, so tired of it all, the lies, the arguements, and then when they hit rock bottom and no one wants em who do they run to?

PliablyPurple said:

Can anyone speak to the side effects a save shot? If it's true that he had been using for years, I wonder if it's true that the save shot could have sent him into a withdrawal his body couldn't handle.

In the end, why he died doesn't change my perception of Prince or my love for the man. It doesn't change the fact that earth benefitted from his presence here and that benefit was culled from many aspects of his humanhood, not just his music. But got damn is it hard to not be curious about why he left us prematurely.

I'm beginning to hit the 'I hate these updates' phase, tho. It feels like he died again today.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

Narcan completely block every opioid receptor in the body.

The side effects of Narcan is that you start experiencing opioid withdrawald which occurs in the first 24 hours and can last up to 72 hours.

FYI: It doesn't change my perception of Prince either.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

babynoz said:

My question is can fentanyl be abused for a period of years? I ask because people keep quoting some drug dealer in the daily mail who claims he was selling Prince excessive amounts of fentanyl for several years.

Sure.

Patients prescribed fentanyl patches build up tolerance to the medication very quickly. It is likely Prince tried quitting cold sober but couldn't and put on a patch (or 2 patches) when he was sober to account for his pain but not account for his tolerance because just as quickly as you build up tolerance to Fentanyl when you are on that medication is as quickly as you lose tolerance when you are off it. Therefore the 'sudden' reexposure to that medicine when you have no tolerance to it becomes too much.

[Edited 6/2/16 14:54pm]

Thanks. That's a lot of medication, especially for a small guy.

what really fucks me up and is fucking with me is that this was accidental. I simply cannot wrap my head around a man, who was so about being in control of every aspect of his life, being taken way by what amounts to an accident when he had so much more to give. I can't even bring myself to read the entire report. I stopped at "accident". I'd feel better if it was a car accident or something that was simply an act of God. But it pains me to no end that a wholly preventable accident...maybe a difference of a few mg's of active drug in the pill or patch he had, is what removed this wildly gifted and talented man from this existence.

kapo74 said:

Smookie said:

CNickyD said:

Smookie said:

BanishedBrian said: Agree about the Star Tribune being a good source. I am wondering that since Schulenberg did not prescribe opioids, whether Prince was getting them from an illicit source, thus the lengthy investigation. So sad. I just don't get how someone would OD in an elevator from ingesting pain pills. I've never heard of a sudden collapse...it's always been a "fall asleep..stop breathing" type of thing in the cases I know of, which sadly, are far too many. And the ones I know if were all injecting, the effects of which would be more sudden. So I'm still perplexed.... [Edited 6/2/16 10:27am] [Edited 6/2/16 10:28am]

I can see it. I almost died of an accidental overdose, and I never even realized I had fallen asleep. I can imagine being in an elevator and just dropping.

The fact that fentanyl was the cause is a surprise. The saving grace is that he would have died painlessly, it would put you to sleep just like that.

I don't need to know more, something else was going on with his health..

GOD Bless Prince, thank you for such wonderful concerts, music, and wonderful friends. I will remain a fam until my time is done on this earth.

OperatingThetan said:

I'm glad nothing further will be released. Even reading this report feels like an invasion of privacy... We are not entitled to, or deserving of, any further details. This report is all the closure any reasonable person (other than close family & friends) needs.

I feel like you concerning this. reading what he was wearing, made me feel really awful. still, now it happend.
hopefully now things will just calm down and we can keep his music as our treasure for life and celebrate it.

good night my friends
☮ & ❥

Smookie said:

BlackandRising said:

what really fucks me up and is fucking with me is that this was accidental. I simply cannot wrap my head around a man, who was so about being in control of every aspect of his life, being taken way by what amounts to an accident when he had so much more to give. I can't even bring myself to read the entire report. I stopped at "accident". I'd feel better if it was a car accident or something that was simply an act of God. But it pains me to no end that a wholly preventable accident...maybe a difference of a few mg's of active drug in the pill or patch he had, is what removed this wildly gifted and talented man from this existence.

I concur.

roxy831 said:

BlackandRising said:

what really fucks me up and is fucking with me is that this was accidental. I simply cannot wrap my head around a man, who was so about being in control of every aspect of his life, being taken way by what amounts to an accident when he had so much more to give. I can't even bring myself to read the entire report. I stopped at "accident". I'd feel better if it was a car accident or something that was simply an act of God. But it pains me to no end that a wholly preventable accident...maybe a difference of a few mg's of active drug in the pill or patch he had, is what removed this wildly gifted and talented man from this existence.

I concur.

ya, i feel the same but I always think about how the universe always fucks with people who think they have control, you know, the titanic was suppossed to be unsinkable, bruce lee was supposed to be invincible, ayn rand called everyone a bunch of moochers and then she ends up having to accept medicaid, what do we learn? that we really don't have much control at all.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

PliablyPurple said:

Can anyone speak to the side effects a save shot? If it's true that he had been using for years, I wonder if it's true that the save shot could have sent him into a withdrawal his body couldn't handle.

In the end, why he died doesn't change my perception of Prince or my love for the man. It doesn't change the fact that earth benefitted from his presence here and that benefit was culled from many aspects of his humanhood, not just his music. But got damn is it hard to not be curious about why he left us prematurely.

I'm beginning to hit the 'I hate these updates' phase, tho. It feels like he died again today.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

Narcan completely block every opioid receptor in the body.

The side effects of Narcan is that you start experiencing opioid withdrawald which occurs in the first 24 hours and can last up to 72 hours.

FYI: It doesn't change my perception of Prince either.

Just an FYI. I work in the Medical field, and have confirmed that a patient can be discharged hours after receiving a Narcan shot without further monitoring. All depends on the reaction to the shot...

Smookie said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

I'd bet a buck or two that he was obtaining fentanyl illicitly. I think that's why the DEA was brought in and this revelation has been delayed while they investigate the source. CNN said no prescription source has been discovered for fentanyl. And reportedly Schulenberger did not prescribe it. And street versions are unreliable - you can't know what you're truly getting when it's obtained through the back channels. After ODing in the plane and then taking it again (if not sooner) a week later, he was playing with fire. No wonder his peeps were desperately seeking treatment. And I bet he said "I'm fine, leave me and I'll see you tomorrow" to whoever dropped him off at PP. But one thing I know from direct experience is that addicts lie. They just lie to your face, they promise "no more" and then they do. I now believe he was an addict. I hate addiction. It's a horrible disease which damages not just the addict but those around them. I have a family member who I believe is addicted to fentanyl or some other synthetic opioid. She denies, denies, denies, lies, lies and lies. And there's a wall around her protecting her secret world. It's impenetratable. You can't reach someone who will not allow you to get close. I think that's why I'm so affected by this. I'm so scared my family member is going to be found dead one day.

If it was illicit, then the question becomes what was the trip to Walgreens about the day before? and was a prescription picked up? If so, for what?

PliablyPurple said:

In the end, why he died doesn't change my perception of Prince or my love for the man. It doesn't change the fact that earth benefitted from his presence here and that benefit was culled from many aspects of his humanhood, not just his music.

.

Yes, I feel the same.

I will always love him, no matter what he did and why.

He was human after all, and a wonderful man!

Spanky said:

No shit. Of course he OD'd. We all knew that. BUT WHY??? What pain was he medicating? That's what we want to know.

Absolutely. I still think he was gravely ill. Period. I agree with you.

bondno9 said:

Smookie said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

I'd bet a buck or two that he was obtaining fentanyl illicitly. I think that's why the DEA was brought in and this revelation has been delayed while they investigate the source. CNN said no prescription source has been discovered for fentanyl. And reportedly Schulenberger did not prescribe it. And street versions are unreliable - you can't know what you're truly getting when it's obtained through the back channels. After ODing in the plane and then taking it again (if not sooner) a week later, he was playing with fire. No wonder his peeps were desperately seeking treatment. And I bet he said "I'm fine, leave me and I'll see you tomorrow" to whoever dropped him off at PP. But one thing I know from direct experience is that addicts lie. They just lie to your face, they promise "no more" and then they do. I now believe he was an addict. I hate addiction. It's a horrible disease which damages not just the addict but those around them. I have a family member who I believe is addicted to fentanyl or some other synthetic opioid. She denies, denies, denies, lies, lies and lies. And there's a wall around her protecting her secret world. It's impenetratable. You can't reach someone who will not allow you to get close. I think that's why I'm so affected by this. I'm so scared my family member is going to be found dead one day.

If it was illicit, then the question becomes what was the trip to Walgreens about the day before? and was a prescription picked up? If so, for what?

I've been wondering about that this whole time. Note, not one "source" seemed to know what he was actually prescribed. And what test result Dr. Schulenberger was dropping of at PP on that morning.

[Edited 6/2/16 16:54pm]

Smookie said:

kapo74 said:

So, now it is official. I work at a pathology department as research technician and, even though I am no MD, I know how to read reports like this. It is a short report, but it tells us a lot. First of all. It states "accident". That means it was an accute toxicological effect. If Prince had been an addict it would have said something else, like long term substance abuse, or something. Apparently no long term toxicological damage was found in liver and kidneys, since this was not stated. This means that he may have taken one too many, but by accident rather than suicide. Apparently the levels in the blood were too low to conclude suicide. Scars on one of his hips and on the lower leg. He probably had hip surgery afterall. The lower leg scar could be from an accident, or surgery. But this is mere speculation. The infromation is a bit feeble. From the sherrifs report we know Prince was found around 9:43, non responsive and CPR was performed. He was pronounced dead at 10:06. So I don't believe the story about him being dead for six hours. Then the skin would have cooled to about 25 degrees centigrade and any one could have felt that. I think he was still alive, but indeed unresponsive, when found. But also this needs official confirmation. Remember, this is not the entire report. This is a press release abstract, just to silence all the speculation about opioids and addiction. More will come once the sherrif dept. releases more details of the investigation.

All the ME will release, per Minnessota law, is cause and manner of death. They're never going to release the autopsy report which would indicate whether other things were going on. Fentanyl toxicity means just that...he died from a toxic level of fentanyl. He may or may not have had other damage and/or diseases (e.g., addiction), and unless it leaks from family, the remaining details of the autopsy will not be made public because in MN they don't share anything more. And I think that's a good thing.

so does this mean that in whitney houstons case, if it were handle the same way, her cod would have been drowning with no mention of heart attack and a last hit of cocaine?

leadline said:

LyraB said:

How could those close to him not know about his drug use, even after being with him on a plane where he supposedly overdosed once before? The same man that many of those that around him, claimed that he was just a clean living vegan, that they never ever saw do drugs, but now here we are getting a report that he died of an accidental drug overdose? Makes no sense at all! So Prince was not only fooling himself, but those close to him and everyone else, all this time by pretending to be a man that never touched drugs, only to be living another life of drugs in secrecy? That's the image being put out there now.

I agree with a lot of you that he may have had a serious illness he was dealing with.

If so, it makes me incredibly sad that with an entire empire around him that HE built; he couldn't confide and rely on anyone it seems.

.

It's also possible that he was an addict and knew that the California doctors would be there in the morning and that he'd be taken to rehab, and it's very common to "live it up" one last time. That would explain him wanting to be alone.

.

I get it.

I hate it, but I get it.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Tresha68 said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

Thank you. Also, if he was taking virecept or norvir as stated by Walgreen pharmaceutical tech? I keep thinking Kaposi Sarcoma. Please chime in.

Tresha68 said:

Spanky said:

No shit. Of course he OD'd. We all knew that. BUT WHY??? What pain was he medicating? That's what we want to know.

Absolutely. I still think he was gravely ill. Period. I agree with you.

if he was gravely ill, and wanted the public to know about it, we would know about it.... if he wanted the public to know about what pain he was medicating, we would know about it

just because he's no longer with us, that doesn't stop me wanting to respect his privacy

.

[Edited 6/2/16 18:14pm]

Tresha68 said:

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

Yes it is.

I am a physician.

Fentanyl is used to treat patients with cancer who are on their death bed. The real question is why was Prince being prescribed Fentanyl. It's not a medication used to treat persistent pain after hip surgery.

Thank you. Also, if he was taking virecept or norvir as stated by Walgreen pharmaceutical tech? I keep thinking Kaposi Sarcoma. Please chime in.

That Walgreens staff quote has to be made up. Discussing a persons meds or anything about their health is a hipaa violation. That person would lose their job in a second.