purplesweat said:

pyramidseye said:

My 15-year old son does not know who Prince is. He says he has no idea of his music. The first place he goes when he wants to listen to some song is YouTube, and Prince wasn't there. Prince's quarrel with WB was a sign that more trouble was to come and it did. You can't get rich all by yourself. You need partners. He had great talent but he couldn't make the most out of it financially. $150-300 mio is nothing for a world star with decades of musical career. That's only a fraction of what Madonna owns. He was an emotional artist but not a rational businessman. When he appeared on Larry King on CNN, he had no idea that CNN belonged to WB. Can you believe that? Most artists don't give their music away with newspapers, simply because it is not the best way to make money. He fought the corporations by losing his own money opportunities and the corporations did not care a bit. Business is as usual and Prince had no impact on it.

>

I'm out of sync in a world that regards $150-300 mil as a failure.

I agree he was a piss poor businessman but it is what it is.

The music and the spectacular performances speak for themselves.

pyramidseye said:

CynicKill said:

RiotPaisley said:

CynicKill said:

>

I'm out of sync in a world that regards $150-300 mil as a failure.

I agree he was a piss poor businessman but it is what it is.

The music and the spectacular performances speak for themselves.

Maybe he wasn't such a bad business man after all: http://www.billboard.com/...-his-super

>

True but he was inconsistant, and seemed relatively surprised by the success of the tour.

A rational artist never would've released ATWIAD after Purple Rain, and not so soon. He could've gotten another year out of Purple Rain.

Parade would've been a no-go.

If he cared about the business he would've progressed on the strides he made with Purple Rain and left everyone in the dust. But he gets bored with new music he creates, so he was averse to extended tours, hence jettisoning the second leg of the PR tour in 84.

He released albums in the 90's a manager probably would've nixed. A rational artist would listen. Prince was not one of them.

But I loved him and always will. He just wasn't one of those artist with an eye for business details.

This is how I see it.

I think his fans are lucky. We have enjoyed the majority of his music over the years and have literally years of it that have yet to make it to our ears. His death is still a shock to me, and it hurts like hell, but knowing there are still parts of him here, parts we have yet to hear or see, helps to get through it just a little bit easier. I wish there was a Stevie Ray Vaughan vault, too, but there isn’t (probably because he was more of a live performer than a studio guy and passed in his 30s). Are there any other artists out there that have a literal vault of material? Or have so many boots? I hope the vault material is slowly released. Even MJ's unheard music has mostly been demos or uncompleted songs it seems, with some of them not actually sounding like him (I do not want to go there).

Prince was generous. How much were the Celebrations? Wasn't one of them like, $77 for the week? To get to go into a state-of-the art complex and "hang out" in what was basically his home? I would rather have had that than to have any videos on YouTube.

The problem I see with YouTube is they make money off those videos, and it isn’t the artists getting the biggest checks from them. Another thing Prince hated was his tickets being scalped. His concerts were pricey but that's because he pretty much had to back them up himself, at least for many of them. And it was worth EVERY penny to see him perform live. Is there anyone even close to his caliber now?

I don't think it was because he was greedy and wanted the money himself. I think he didn't like seeing others get ripped off, though yes, it made him appear very controlling and I would probably think much differently if I had been one of the fans that had been threatened with a lawsuit. It's just like when other artists were remaking his music, they went to WB to ask permission, not him, when the music came from his mind, not WB execs. That would piss me off, too. I know he was okay when they asked him, but not when they asked WB. I can see his point.

I know when he put out TRC, he said feel free to burn it and give it to family and friends. G-I-V-E it, don’t charge them or sell it. He didn’t make much off albums. His money was made from performing. But I think he hated seeing others make money off him and his work.

His catalogue, etc. is worth maybe $150 million? Is that just including published material? Some sources put MiJac (just MJ's songs) at about $75 to $150 million. I think Prince did well.

I can’t comment on Tidal but have heard crappy things about it.

What I do wish is that he had been more vocal about official news, statements, etc. I know he liked technology and seemed to want to be the leader in the field for artists with it, but then for a while there was nothing really “official”. I thought Dr. Funkenberry was the only “official source”. It wasn’t until after he passed I realized he had a real Twitter and Instagram that were verified. Makes me sick now…:,-(

gatorgirl said:

CynicKill said:

RiotPaisley said:

CynicKill said: Maybe he wasn't such a bad business man after all: http://www.billboard.com/...-his-super

>

True but he was inconsistant, and seemed relatively surprised by the success of the tour.

A rational artist never would've released ATWIAD after Purple Rain, and not so soon. He could've gotten another year out of Purple Rain.

Parade would've been a no-go.

If he cared about the business he would've progressed on the strides he made with Purple Rain and left everyone in the dust. But he gets bored with new music he creates, so he was averse to extended tours, hence jettisoning the second leg of the PR tour in 84.

He released albums in the 90's a manager probably would've nixed. A rational artist would listen. Prince was not one of them.

But I loved him and always will. He just wasn't one of those artist with an eye for business details.

I think that if he milked Purple Rain for another year or two, he may get typecast into being the Purple Rain guy. He already is mostly the Purple Rain guy for casual observers. I remember when Rick James hit it big with Street Songs, then put out a great album afterwards, Throw Down. Problem was that the songs sounded too similar to Street Songs. I think that he labored hard to make his follow up album soon and very different to keep things popping for the long run. Pop Life; Raspberry Beret - great songs.

I don't think he "blew it", but he sure did try my patience as a huge fan back from 1984! Yes, he was absolutely a musical genius, but he needed some help from a business genius. If he didn't want all those bootlegs running rampant and all types of things all over youtube, then play the game smart: get a vevo channel, a youtube channel, release dvds and blurays with the official PaisleyPark and/or NPG seal, license the music, etc.

He could have then used all that extra $revenue$ to do all the good things he wanted to do for communites and people as he saw fit.

Think about it: if we'd had access to all those things in the first place we wouldn't be scrounging around for bootlegs in the first damn place.

God bless him, he was the best musician ever, though

I was always of two minds on how accessible the music and videos were. The fan in me enjoyed the hunt. I also wished he could separate the fan bootlegs from the corporate greed. In hind sight of course I feel like it was all so unnecessary since he made no after plans.

I was always glad he never rested on his Purple Rain laurels.

Metallica has come out and denounced youtube for the amount they pay artists. As in barely paying them at all.

setyrmindphree said:

I completely agree with the OP. I don´t know how the situation was in the US, but in Europe there were records you literally could not buy. I don´t see that as a "business plan" or genius strike. If your name is Prince you don´t have to have a huge record label to get a good distribution deal for every part of the world. He tried to figure out different ways of getting his stuff out. That´s cool. But it didn´t work out big time and for some of his (possible) fans that was a real let down. Maybe he wanted some kind of "elite" status. If that was the case he was pretty successful. To me it´s a strange strategy to keep new fans away by hiding your music.

RiotPaisley said:

CynicKill said:

Have to admit that my toes tingle each time I make a see a new Prince video on youtube. Some are old friends and others are variations on a theme, while other discoveries are brand new....

I think my friend K said it best: "He might have had slave written on his face, but his fans were the real slaves (regarding the tight control he had). lol.

Quintessentially Prince....

My toes tingle too. I had to take a cold shower after watching some concert footage. IMHO Prince was at his best live.

I respect that he was a passionate advocate for the rights of artists, I'm not sure it was always necessarily about the money with him, I think a big part of it was wanting to feel like he owned all his work and had complete control over it.

As a long time, devoted but passive fan, who has had no involvement in bootlegs, file sharing or whatever, I don't mind admitting I did get frustrated with certain aspects. I was particularly annoyed when he took his stuff off Spotify - I have discovered so many new artists on there, and have bought a lot of albums as a result. If his work was available there, I think would have increased his fanbase and opened up his world to others. I don't always buy the "if they can get it for free they won't buy it" argument, perhaps I'm old school, but if I discover a song I like I will definitely investigate and probably end up buying the album.

I never got around to joining Tidal - by that time I was a bit weary of his faffing around with various methods of putting out his music. I'm on a limited income nowadays and I just don't have the money to be paying out every month. But maybe that's just me, I have to recognise that the industry has changed, and the days of being able to go into a store, buy albums and then enjoy the music forever, end of story, will probably soon be history.

Seeing so much stuff on youtube after all these years has been a joy. It was always frustrating to me that incredible shows - Lovesexy, Parade and some of the extraordinary aftershows, were never put out on official DVDs. They are a part of musical history and deserve to be seen. So many fans never got to see him live, which I think is so sad.

[Edited 5/7/16 0:34am]

I completely agree. The youtube ban hurt his career to an extent because it so limited his exposure.

It's not like there is a lot of live stuff out on dvd either, so there were few alternatives.

And fans should be able to not feel bad for expressing that opinion.

You can be a loyal fan and still disagree/be disappointed with decisions the artist makes.

RiotPaisley said:

Maybe if people weren't ripping copies of his music and selling it or using it in ways he didn't want it to be things would be different. He was an artist and wanted due compensation for his stuff. There were a few things he did that got me frustrated- I think fairly recently he issued a cease and desist to a DJ who was having Prince nights or something and someone posted a video of people dancing. I thought that went too far but I understood why he wouldn't want people putting his albums on YouTube. Maybe he should have done it himself and found a way to be compensated but he was valid for wanting credit. I didn't mind having to dig for his work. That was kind of fun actually. A treasure hunt. Having the sites go down or tracks I legit paid for disappear from my iTunes account, not cool ... But otherwise, no. He did not "blow it" with fans. He had every right to be a mystery. It kept him out of the tabloids. Look what they did to Michael all the time. Hell, look at the what they are doing to Prince now that he's not here to defend himself. If anything I wish he would have put out more DVDs with live stuff, videos, controlled behind the scenes/interviews kind of stuff. But people would bootleg and profit from that too so... If anything maybe he wasn't the best business man. He didn't trust people and I don't really blame him for that.

What people did 'to' Michael was not because he made is products available, it had to do with his eccentricity and sometimes bizarre behaviour, part of which was engineered in order to get media exposure, certainly in the early post Thriller days. MJ was a very contradictory individual.

setyrmindphree said:

If I'd have been in Prince's shoes this is what I would have done..

Created an online video vault, something along the lines of Princetube but with a different name. I'd have had all of the singles videos, films and stuff like Live in Syracuse up permanently for people to view for free. I'd have added unseen videos once a month to keep people returning (old and current to tie in with shows/tours etc)

To keep it free of advertising I'd have added a membership option for a small fee, giving people access to a plethora of other videos to see if they so desire.

To say he "blew it" is to assume he wanted twice as much money, twice as many fans, twice as much fame, etc.

I think the fact he preferred playing in smaller venues such as clubs the past few years, instead of large arenas and stadiums, tells me he wasn't all that concerned about increasing his fanbase. In the grand scheme of things, did it really matter if he was worth $500M more or not?

And I think that's a big reason why he didn't care about putting anything free on YouTube etc. Because let's face it, most people aren't gonna BUY a musician's music without hearing it first. So all those teens and 20-somethings who don't have Prince fans for parents, how are they gonna get exposed to his music? It's not played very often over the airwaves (always bugged me that classic rock stations never played his music, but that's another discussion), not played much in clubs and bars, and it can't be watched/listened on the net ... so HOW do they get a chance to experience it and become fans?

Putting SOME music and performances on YouTube for free would have gone a long way in exposing more people to Prince and turning more of them into fans. It's no different than new movies always releasing a trailer, often multiple trailers, so that everyone can watch part of the movie for free. If they like what they see, they'll most likely want to pay to see the entire film.

pyramidseye said:

I guess most of you answered as either fans or business types.As a fan (fanatic) i was with him all the way fight the power fight the man.Keep in mind many singers at the time were going through it with the music industry.TLC,MJ,MARIAH and a ton of others that weren't as outspoken.I had all his music anyway as many of his original fans do....Now on the business end its like wtf.Big celebs are usually generational meaning us,our kids and our grandkids and beyond.They use youtube its a proven fact.And they're the ones buying the music 30 and under.They know him from the dave c show.The superbowl which usually after doing the SB sales of your music goes through the roof.He wasn't that 80's,90's guy anymore.People moved on he stayed the same.WB was willing to put up with the crazy while the green was pouring in but,dont be crazy,rude,out of touch and the green isn't coming in.It wasn't just about his masters.He himself said 'why isn't my music being played on the radio?Thats why his butt went straight back to WB.Mj did the same thing called on jessie jackson and rev al to call tommy M a very,very bad man and said he was devilish and the crazy fans started calling sony.Then had the nerve to bring tommys ex wife out Mariah.Truth is they promoted mj as much as ever they just wasn't paying all that loot for every song on the record.He payed brando out of his own money.And again as a fan i couldn't stand tommy how dare he.But,as a biz person i knew the box,mtv and trl were just about over.I honestly dont know how much it hurt his pocket but,many are saying his estate right now is no where near 300mill.

http://uproxx.com/music/p...nce-story/ Forgot to add this link