gotta say, some of the comments on this thread are disheartening to say the least. I think anyone close to him would be a bit distraught over seeing the sheer glut of stuff getting out there. TBH, to me it seems like a big middle finger to Prince's control over his music/image/IP that people here railed about while he was here. Was some stuff going to get out there? Sure. But to see the rationalizing here around what Prince may or may not have wanted, all leaning towards his somehow wanting this to happen since he left no specific instructions, are just things people are saying to make themselves feel less guilty about it. I've seen a few things taht are new to me but out of respect to Prince, I'm not actively hunting down items to add to my collection. I think Susannah is right; It's been 8 days and what he fought so long and hard for and probably thought he had some support from his closest fans, is being tossed in the wind because, well, it's out there now.

My two pence on the youtube... It is really helping me watching all that material, tonnes of which I have never seen. We all approach grief in different ways but for me looking through this "photo album" is helping and indeed celebrating. Perhaps some of the skeptics who dismissed Prince might view some of this and so "oh man if only I had known..."

It has helped me TREMENDOUSLY to be able to share music with my friends on Facebook. It's the very best way I've found to get through the grieving process. It's the best way I've found to express what I'm feeling to those who care about me. With all due respect to his estate, they should let the music stay up.

OldFriends4Sale said:

DiscoBallz said:

Susannah has plenty to say considering you know she has tons of unreleased shit (and released shit) in her own collection.

I'm pretty okay with never hearing one of Prince's exgirlfriends offer their opinions on the vault anymore.

I don't think she has a problem with unreleased stuff out there.
.
It seems she is talking about right after his death the rush to put all his stuff out there, and I know there are people making money off of it even moreso now. Just like those people who accepted those purple boxes and the next day they were up on Ebay.

.

I'll admit, I feel weird about it too.

She didn't think it was too soon for the Revolution to announce a reunion.

lynx said:

What exactly is the point of keeping the stuff off YouTube now? So somebody else besides Prince can make money off of it?

Prince had a point and a right to keep his own stuff offline - but it doesn't mean he didn't screw the fans in the process. He wasn't perfect.

Agreed!

Everyones opinion right now is coming through the screen of grief.

Stop judging them please? Can we let them live? I dont know how any of them are handling this with expectations of 'statements' and media attention.

The estate controls Princes assets and people can talk and opine all they want, they have zero influence or power or legal say in anything.

Prince locked that vault because he thought NO ONE deserved to manage it except him. He's gone now, and I think archiving it for presentation as rotating musical exhibits as part of Paisely Parks museum would give years of unique and wonderful reasons to continue to go there...

with everything Prince left behind there are endless ways to curate the entire musiem to focus on each era while utilizing supporting assets in the vault in creative timelines - in ways that dont devalue or exploit.

The vault should be studied as a treasure trove of artistic genius that it is...like leonardos studio or michangelos notebooks - the vault is the window to Princes process and should be respected as such.


It doesnt matter what any ex girlfriend, finacee, band memeber says - it really doesnt. The estate will decide along with the heirs and everything else is just fodder for drama.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think she has a problem with unreleased stuff out there.
.
It seems she is talking about right after his death the rush to put all his stuff out there, and I know there are people making money off of it even moreso now. Just like those people who accepted those purple boxes and the next day they were up on Ebay.

.

I'll admit, I feel weird about it too.

She didn't think it was too soon for the Revolution to announce a reunion.

that is way different, and you know it. DeAngelo can perform Sometimes It Snows In April in Jimmy Fallon but the Revolution cannot reunite to do a show in memory of the person they recorded and toured with? And still talk with?

She is talking about a rush to yank open the vault and put the stuff out there. She isn't saying not to do it. Reread your posts of cut in pastes

4 someone who dislikes the Melvoins U sure R trolling her page...

KoolEaze said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually Susannah's posts are not contradictory. Read it again, she is just saying 'wait' Maybe wait on throwing it out there it is clear from the rest of it she is connecting it with the suddenness of his death.

I don't think she is saying she is against it at all.

Yeah, I think you are right, she does not seem to be totally against it but wants fans to wait a bit longer.

But what difference does it make at this point? I mean, now is the time that many people who are not familiar with Prince are going to look him up on Youtube, and I find it wonderful when I read the younger generation´s surprised reactions when they comment on some of his concert footage or those old videoclips of his big hits.

There are some kids who thought that songs like If I Was Your Girlfriend were written by TLC or Beyonce, and that Raspberry Beret was written by some other guy.

I understand where Susannah is coming from, and I´d love to see her get compensated for her input and inspiration but as far as posting songs and videos goes...I am all for Prince being known for his huge talent and his incredible live performances and music instead of silly cliches that people have of him.

It´s nice to see younger folks see beyond the mascara and falsetto and eccentric clothes and namechange.

He deserves to be one of those immortal legends, and now is the time that people are looking up his stuff on the internet.

but the vault stuff is for US more than for those other people(many who don't know anything about the Vault) now is the time to get the released stuff back out there (albums & videos) for sure.

But the Vault stuff just needs to be done right, quality, not messy.

beatz01 said:

GirlBrother said:

"If I can't have him, nobody will."

This is pretty much how Sheila E. comes across for me at the moment.

Exactly

pinkcashmere1 said:

beatz01 said:

This is pretty much how Sheila E. comes across for me at the moment.

Exactly

" />

2 things:

1) It's not really the fans that are rushing anything in terms of the Vault.It was Sheila that made that "nothing should be released" statement very early.If she would have said "i have no opinion now, let's talk about that in a few weeks" i would not have a problem with that.But to say something in such a definite way sure angers people.So it's not the people not respecting her or her grief, but that statement of hers that started it.

2) I thought it was pretty clear from this recent Jimmy Jam interview that Prince indeed intended to release material from the vault ? Why is this still questioned at all ? Source:

http://ambrosiaforheads.c...tes-video/

Key sentence: "Jimmy Jam explained how he and Prince had recently discussed liberating some of the vaulted 1980s (and beyond) recordings housed at his Paisley Park studio compound and residence."

Maybe someone should send Sheila the link...

beatz01 said:

2 things:

1) It's not really the fans that are rushing anything in terms of the Vault.It was Sheila that made that "nothing should be released" statement very early.If she would have said "i have no opinion now, let's talk about that in a few weeks" i would not have a problem with that.But to say something in such a definite way sure angers people.So it's not the people not respecting her or her grief, but that statement of hers that started it.

2) I thought it was pretty clear from this recent Jimmy Jam interview that Prince indeed intended to release material from the vault ? Why is this still questioned at all ? Source:

http://ambrosiaforheads.c...tes-video/

Key sentence: "Jimmy Jam explained how he and Prince had recently discussed liberating some of the vaulted 1980s (and beyond) recordings housed at his Paisley Park studio compound and residence."

Maybe someone should send Sheila the link...

But this thread is about Susannah Melvoin. And before Sheila E even said anything fans were expecting the Vault to be opened. He wasn't even cremated yet.

I didn't know if I should post the below blog in this thread or start a new thread, but since they seem to be about the same topic I've included it here. C. Liegh McInnis, author of The Lyrics of Prince, moderates an email listserv that mostly posts upcoming literary events in the Jackson, Mississippi, area. However, he also posts commentaries, such as the one below, titled "Flooding the Internet with Prince's Unreleased Work."

=============================================================

*

Hey Y’all,

*

Of course, with Prince’s death, the internet has exploded with all sorts of unreleased and official Prince audio and video: studio and live. It’s become a major dispute in the Prince fandom world of which a few folks have asked me my opinion. When Prince was alive, I agreed with him that he had the right to do with his art what he wanted because he owned the material. To sound elitist, I find that the only people who want people’s intellectual property released to the public for free are people who have not the ability to create/generate intellectual property of worth. Now, of course, that’s not always the case. I know a lot of artists who have no problem with disseminating their work for free; I’m one of them. But, I’ve always had an issue with this “art belongs to the public bs.” My art belongs to me…why?...because I created it. End of discussion. Yet, to be clear, it was pretty easy/hypocritical of me to have this position when I have tons of more unreleased Prince stuff than some hardcore fans. To be fully honest about my hypocrisy, one of my first regular paying gigs was writing under a pseudonym for two magazines that trafficked in bootleg material. For a very short time, I was the guy that you knew had a fake name that you met in an alley with a password to get a cassette of music like it was illegal drugs. (I can only laugh at myself now.) I reconciled my hypocrisy by telling myself, “I only trade with fans; I don’t sell.” Yeah, okay, playa, if that works for ya go with it. As an aside, during my first meeting with Prince, he was discussing my book and stated, “It’s obvious that someone has been listening to boots of my music.” Just when I was about to panic, he released that big ole “Got ‘cha” smile, and we both laughed. Prince seemed to have this double notion about his unreleased music being available to the public. He actually stated, “I don’t mind fans sharing, but sharing almost always leads to profit for the devils.” It was like he wanted to find a way that his fans could have access to his music without “the devils” making a profit off him anymore. In this day and age, I have no idea how that could happen.

*

So, Prince battled internet companies and fans like he battled Warner Bros. He even once sued 22 internet companies and fans to show how serious he was about this. Of course, he dropped the suit a day later, but…message sent, even to his fans. When his fans fired back by establishing the website Prince Fans United.com, Prince responded to them (I thought the website was a funny but dumb idea.) in the most Prince way; he dropped the song, “PFU,” which later became “F.U.N.K.” I love this song because it’s funky, because Prince uses his signature Camille/chipmunk voice, and who else would be batshit crazy enough to drop a diss record to his fans. Not only does Prince diss two members of Prince Fans United.com, he adds “Well, this may not be ‘The Grand Progression,’ but it sho’ is funky.” Most of his fans had also been angry that Prince never released the song, “The Grand Progression” and often cited that as another example of Prince’s bad business/artistic decisions. Clearly Prince was listening to and now responding to his fans. Prince even went to war with other artists over online postings of his covers of their songs and their covers of his songs. Prince once blocked the video of his cover of Radiohead’s “Creep” during the Coachella Festival, but Radiohead had it reposted, saying “It’s our song.” However, Prince countered with, “But, it’s my performance.” Eventually, Prince won that dispute because while Radiohead is correct that it’s their song, the arbitrator ruled that Prince owned the copyright to that particular performance. Essentially, Radiohead can control their song, but they can’t control Prince’s “imaging/likeness.” So, it was eventually removed. It’s been reposted now.

*

Two other notes: once stuff started to flood the internet after Prince’s death, I checked to see if there is something out there that I want but don’t have. Sadly, there is nothing, which is more of a statement of my pitiful dedication to Prince that I have just about everything I want. Most hardcore Prince fans are in two categories when it comes to bootleg/unreleased work: studio boots and live boots. I’m in the live camp. I own a ton of studio boots, but, for my own tastes, it seems that Prince did a pretty good job of choosing the best songs for each album, at least, again, as it relates to my own particular tastes. In fact, I received a major backlash from many Prince.org members when I stated that “For my money, most of Prince’s unreleased studio stuff doesn’t move me at all, but the live stuff is the best stuff. In fact, my usual reaction to hearing an unreleased studio song is ‘I can see why it didn’t make the album.’” Man, a bunch of those folks on Prince.org let me have it. But, that’s just my tastes. The three things that I want, I actually have them; I just want them in better quality. Two are from aftershow concerts. One is Prince’s 1986 performance of “An Honest Man” in a little afterhours spot in France. The other is Prince’s 1987/8 performance of “Adore” in a little afterhours spot in France as well. The sound quality of mine are bearable but not great. (I have a cheap audio software on my computer that allows me to enhance sound a bit. It does a decent job on most boots, but the sound quality of these two were terrible to start.) The third is Prince’s performance of “The Ladder” during a rehearsal on the Lovesexy Tour. The clip that’s been circulating for years that most Prince fans have is about 1:47 minutes, but we all want the full version of that performance. That rehearsal was on a Sunday, which were the days for which Prince was notorious for doing these amazing things either during rehearsal or even in the studio. In short, Prince went to chu’tch on that one.

*

Ultimately, folks need to get while the getting is good before the Estate is settled and that stuff is removed again. Someone asked me what would I recommend, and, of course, it’s about one’s tastes. Prince has such a diverse pie chart of music that there are slices of his work that may appeal to one fan that would not appeal to another fan. There are actually people who call themselves Prince fans who hate “Adore.” Then, there are Prince fans who hate that Prince spends so much time doing rock. Yet, for me, it was the diversity of his pie chart that moved me. The thing I’d tell people to view is Prince’s solo on “While my Guitar Gently Weeps” at the 2004 Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame ceremony. The first few minutes are okay, but from the 3:27 mark of the performance to the 6:15 end, Prince kills it and makes it clear that he’s one of the greatest guitar players of all time. I don’t know if having all this stuff available helps his legacy or not, but I ain’t gon’ act like I don’t have most of this stuff. On a brief serious note, there were some songs/videos that Prince didn’t want available because he did feel some notion of guilt/shame that he had probably gone too far in trying to be a free liberated artist. But, what artist doesn’t feel this way to some degree either about development of one’s craft or change in one’s ideological perspective. (Even Amiri Baraka the Marxist showed some level of regret of things written by Baraka the Black Nationalist.) To that, all I can say is that life, like any good story, is about the complete narrative arc. While I may cringe at some of Prince’s older work/moments, like that time he was on stage with James Brown and Michael Jackson, desperately trying to get Brown’s attention and failing miserably, I can only laugh because that’s an example of Prince just being another human/young person, trying to impress his idol by one-upping his rival. Yeah, he fell flat on his face doing so, but he got up, dusted himself off, and made history. Maybe having all this stuff available to a new generation will reveal that part of the story as well—that even geniuses have subpar moments. Take care.

*

C. Liegh McInnis

Reading this thread was probably more hurtful and painful as a fan than all the BS stories out there. This sentiment, that because Prince was a public figure that ALL of him should be made public in death is absurd. Prince, for nearly 40 years gave us what he thought was the best of himself. Every album, every TV performance, every movie, every concert. Is that not enough material for us? 40 years of material is not enough of him to satisfy you so every private recording that is in the vault needs to be heard by you but not just heard it somehow 'belongs' to the public? Whatever bootlegs are out there, they are out and that is fine to be shared if the person who has those tapes wants to share them. But demanding that Prince's vault be given to the public is crossing a line. Share the tapes and bootlegs that are out there, I am sure the trustee will sell the Vault recordings to the highest bidder to liquidate the assets for the siblings. Some of those songs may come out and we may never know if they are Prince songs or not depending on what the eventual owner does with the songs. But I think we all need to remember, this man have died because he gave every single drop of himself to entertain us at the highest levels he possibly could for almost 40 years. If we never hear a single song in that Vault we should be grateful. Look what we were allowed to witness in our life time! Prince gave us all of his Picasso paintings, cherish them, don't violate him because he's dead now and say you loved his music.

[Edited 4/29/16 22:29pm]

beatz01 said:

2 things:

1) It's not really the fans that are rushing anything in terms of the Vault.It was Sheila that made that "nothing should be released" statement very early.If she would have said "i have no opinion now, let's talk about that in a few weeks" i would not have a problem with that.But to say something in such a definite way sure angers people.So it's not the people not respecting her or her grief, but that statement of hers that started it.

2) I thought it was pretty clear from this recent Jimmy Jam interview that Prince indeed intended to release material from the vault ? Why is this still questioned at all ? Source:

http://ambrosiaforheads.c...tes-video/

Key sentence: "Jimmy Jam explained how he and Prince had recently discussed liberating some of the vaulted 1980s (and beyond) recordings housed at his Paisley Park studio compound and residence."

Maybe someone should send Sheila the link...

That's great news. Let them do that but in all likely hood the trustee will sell the Vault to the highest bidder to liquidate the value for the siblings. The Vault music will come out but we as fans can't demand it come out and come out for free because Prince was so famous.

vinx98 said:

Prince's work should be open to the public as he is an icon of significant cultural value.

Imagine, we were not allowed to see the mona lisa because da vinci didnt like the painting or didnt want us to.

Or that the white house was shut down because it didnt have the right lick of paint, or any other spurious reason an individual feels it is their "right" to uphold.

Prince should belong to the public and not just to a few "chosen" individuals.

Prince already gave us the Mona Lisa's of his music. 40 years worth of it. Everything Da Vinci did wasn't for everybody. He made 40 years worth of PUBLIC material for you and me. Movies, Music, Concerts, TV appearances and a shit load of bootlegs. What else does he need to give you? What else do you need access to?

Polo, calm down.No one sad anything about wanting the Vault recordings for free , nor did anyone say that everything has to be released.What is our influence anyway ? None, zilch.Unless heavyweight *fans* like Questlove or alike get involved, our influence on this whole matter is zero.

What a lot of fans *do* say though is a) no one should feel entitled at this time to decide what's gonna happen with the V. (aka "Prince would have already released it if he had wanted it so let's release nothing") and b) there is a chance that in regards of unreleased material on YT he would not have minded if it was after his death.

All i'm saying is WE DON'T KNOW what Prince would have wanted, be it the fans or Sheila or Susannah or whoever - NO ONE KNOWS.

So no one should pretend they do.

[Edited 4/29/16 22:54pm]

beatz01 said:

Polo, calm down.No one sad anything about wanting the Vault recordings for free , nor did anyone say that everything has to be released.What is our influence anyway ? None, zilch.Unless heavyweight *fans* like Questlove or alike get involved, our influence on this whole matter is zero.

What a lot of fans *do* say though is a) no one should feel entitled at this time to decide what's gonna happen with the V. (aka "Prince would have already released it if he had wanted it so let's release nothing") and b) there is a chance that in regards of unreleased material on YT he would not have minded if it was after his death.

All i'm saying is WE DON'T KNOW what Prince would have wanted, be it the fans or Sheila or Susannah or whoever - NO ONE KNOWS.

So no one should pretend they do.

[Edited 4/29/16 22:54pm]

trust me I'm not coming from a place of anger at all. It's all sadness because we really aren't realizing what is about to happen to Prince's music. You know how Party City does 'Thriller' every Halloween? Get ready dude, Prince is about to be the music for what ever two bit product that exists. The Vault was drilled open and emptied by the Trustee. The music is gonna come out but the family nor any of his bandmates will own it or have any stake in how it's released. Possibly Warners publishing arm outbids other labels and keeps it but it's not going to be up for anyone that cared about him to decide. Depending on who owns it, a pop star in 5 years may have an entire album of Vault material and we won't know it. It's a time of utter sadness not just because he died but because he failed his legacy and did not have a will, as yet. So he will be sold whole or by parts to the highest bidders. This idea of his music coming out and what he would have wanted doesn't matter anymore. What Prince wanted doesn't matter anymore.

Polo1026 said:

trust me I'm not coming from a place of anger at all. It's all sadness because we really aren't realizing what is about to happen to Prince's music. You know how Party City does 'Thriller' every Halloween? Get ready dude, Prince is about to be the music for what ever two bit product that exists. The Vault was drilled open and emptied by the Trustee. The music is gonna come out but the family nor any of his bandmates will own it or have any stake in how it's released. Possibly Warners publishing arm outbids other labels and keeps it but it's not going to be up for anyone that cared about him to decide. Depending on who owns it, a pop star in 5 years may have an entire album of Vault material and we won't know it. It's a time of utter sadness not just because he died but because he failed his legacy and did not have a will, as yet. So he will be sold whole or by parts to the highest bidders. This idea of his music coming out and what he would have wanted doesn't matter anymore. What Prince wanted doesn't matter anymore.

.

I hadn't even thought of this, but yes it's possible that the remaining siblings will just sell the estate and music to the highest bidder and not really care how Prince's image and music will be used in the future. They may just want to cash in and buy a yacht and not even care about it.

.

P really did screw up royally by not having a will. He could have left the care for the unreleased material to W&L or Sheila E or Jam and Lewis, or whoever. But now part of the control for his unreleased material goes to a half brother who he avoided for the past 15 years. Just a really bad situation for the fans...for the world really.

.

And yes we will be hearing Purple Rain and Let's Go Crazy on all types of dumb commercials now as well. I just hope they don't use his image to sell too much crap. At least with MJ's estate, his mother and family controls it and they were tight. Tyka seems ok but she won't be able to control all this if she just has 1/8th of the control in the matter.

.

really really bad. :-/

jn2 said:

GirlBrother said:

BlackandRising said:

gotta say, some of the comments on this thread are disheartening to say the least. I think anyone close to him would be a bit distraught over seeing the sheer glut of stuff getting out there. TBH, to me it seems like a big middle finger to Prince's control over his music/image/IP that people here railed about while he was here. Was some stuff going to get out there? Sure. But to see the rationalizing here around what Prince may or may not have wanted, all leaning towards his somehow wanting this to happen since he left no specific instructions, are just things people are saying to make themselves feel less guilty about it. I've seen a few things taht are new to me but out of respect to Prince, I'm not actively hunting down items to add to my collection. I think Susannah is right; It's been 8 days and what he fought so long and hard for and probably thought he had some support from his closest fans, is being tossed in the wind because, well, it's out there now.

Unreleased Prince music has been circulating since the late-80s.Isn't it a little too late for anyone to have an anti-bootleg stance? At this point,I think it's kinda absurd to be "distraught" over something like this.Also,remember that most of this stuff is out there because Prince himself was careless with his unreleased music (for example,giving tapes to girlfriends and close friends).

jcurley said:

vinx98 said:

razord said:

The sheer number of bootlegs that have been circulating since the 80's has always been something that was part of his myth, his legacy and an integral part to his cult.It was part of made his world so fascinating.I don't know a single die hard fan who doesn't own a shitload of boots.

So now to pretend this never was the case and get all moral about it is ridiculous.As if most of us had stick to only the studio albums.SMH.

Besides, the "good" side with YT is at least nobody's making money off it.But i never had a problem paying bootleggers anyway.They invested lots of dedication, money and time in (mostly) beautiful artwork, mastering and manufacturing, too.

Just don't be so hypocritical, folks.That includes Susannah, too.

Boots have always been a part of why people got fascinated with Prince.

OldFriends4Sale said: