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Reply #270 posted 11/08/14 3:25pm

JudasSmile

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There are some excellent sounding quality songs in this set, but also some dodgy instrumental versions which are clearly fan-made. Both Lady Cab Driver and Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother, Wife are pretty clunky edits of the original released songs. Worth getting the set for the first two CDs alone.

U been bamboozled, hoodwinked, took.
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Reply #271 posted 11/08/14 3:28pm

FragileUnderto
w

avatar

Question

Anyone know if the 1986 tracks are in better quality?
And why did they sequence them out of order confuse
04 - Can't Stop This Feeling I Got (1986).flac
05 - We Can Funk (1986).flac
06 - Girl O' My Dreams (1986).flac


And what about 15 - 18 & Over (1994).flac is this a previous uncirculated version?

The older unreleased version is about 2 minutes longer



Anyone else have their assessment of tracks, opinions? boxed

Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #272 posted 11/08/14 3:41pm

FragileUnderto
w

avatar

JudasSmile said:

There are some excellent sounding quality songs in this set, but also some dodgy instrumental versions which are clearly fan-made. Both Lady Cab Driver and Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother, Wife are pretty clunky edits of the original released songs. Worth getting the set for the first two CDs alone.


Yeah, those 2 tracks sound pretty fake to me.
Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother, Wife sound like its a 30 second loop for 3 minutes lol

This should have been a 2 cd set.
Over all if you split the tracks up theres a CD worth of good!
And a CD of previously uncirculating tracks that sound like they were tweaked, not any or much better then whats out there
But for those who missed the 1-off leaks this compiles them so im sure some will be pleased with this release

Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #273 posted 11/08/14 7:30pm

KingSausage

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There's some great shit on here. But also some shit shit. It's amazing to have Empty Room and a few other gems in such high quality. But, yeah, Purple & Gold fan edits. Purple & Gold. If I had paid for this set, I might be a little pissed.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #274 posted 11/08/14 8:12pm

stillwaiting

FragileUndertow said:

smokeverbs said:

A new thread then?


It appears i deleted 90% or more of the tracks from The Work series and replaced them with copies from Work It 2.0
I don't recall picking up Dabangs For You Demos, So im clueless about those
I also noticed im missing a few items mad
I may have broken a few sets already, as to what sets im not sure lol
I have other sets not listed that i havent boken up and wont *example : Exodus (Early Configuration) & Exodus V.2 *Asuming for now they better quality
It might be best to keep them as sets and delete the corresponding tracks from the Work It 2.0 series
Thats what i did with a few dozen or so tracks.

You can try starting a thread but it take some dedication and im not sure any one would join in
And personaly im not sure i have time to compare or sort out .. im guessing my 10 compolations.. maybe 15 cds worth of music sigh
Thinking about it make me duh Its work i tell ya lol

The For You Demos by DaBang sound so good, it sounds like a different source. They almost sound perfect. If this guy actually cleaned up what was on Work It 2.0 to sound like this, than I hope he works on all the outtakes.

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Reply #275 posted 11/08/14 8:14pm

stillwaiting

FragileUndertow said:

Question

Anyone know if the 1986 tracks are in better quality?
And why did they sequence them out of order confuse
04 - Can't Stop This Feeling I Got (1986).flac
05 - We Can Funk (1986).flac
06 - Girl O' My Dreams (1986).flac


And what about 15 - 18 & Over (1994).flac is this a previous uncirculated version?

The older unreleased version is about 2 minutes longer



Anyone else have their assessment of tracks, opinions? boxed

-MASSIVE EDIT- I meant to say Can't Stop, WCF, and Girl O My Dreams sound worse to me on this new set...unless there is something about the tracks that is different, it's just more filler.

I have only passively gone through them, and and the Blast 2.0 tracks sound worse than the Box O Chocolates versions. Eye easily could have kept this at 2 discs, but their reputation is for pushing the term filler to the absolute maximum.

[Edited 11/8/14 22:39pm]

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Reply #276 posted 11/08/14 9:01pm

aalloca

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A humble thank you to many of you.. Peace love & good happiness stuff
Music is the best...
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Reply #277 posted 11/08/14 10:24pm

teoalcantara

This is one bootleg that actually I'd love to check!

One of my favorite outtakes/demo/unreleased songs is "Eternity", but quality of the file I have is very bad sad

[Edited 11/8/14 22:26pm]

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Reply #278 posted 11/08/14 11:13pm

FragileUnderto
w

avatar

stillwaiting said:

-MASSIVE EDIT- I meant to say Can't Stop, WCF, and Girl O My Dreams sound worse to me on this new set...unless there is something about the tracks that is different, it's just more filler.



I'll trust your jugement, because i noticed the same about some of the other tracks
Batdance Ext Vers sounds horrible to me too lol

Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #279 posted 11/08/14 11:47pm

dodger

FragileUndertow said:


KingSausage said:


Empty Room '85 is like God pouring whiskey and kisses into my ears.


Yes it is! touched guitar cloud9



Anyone else surprised this version is from 85 and not the Gold era? After seeing the video before a Gold concert in 95 with the NPG in along with Zanalee and 18 & Over I'll always associate it with this era. Of course it's possible for them to mime along to an old recording but it even sounds like it belongs in that period to me.
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Reply #280 posted 11/09/14 12:30am

FragileUnderto
w

avatar

dodger said:

Anyone else surprised this version is from 85 and not the Gold era? A


A very good copy of Empty Room (1985) can be found on 1997/1998 Work It 2.0 (Updated Vol 7) Disc 29 \ 04 - Empty Room #2.flac
So its been around for a while now, but the copy on Blast from the past 2.0 is just wow
http://www.istad.org/mc/gosh.gif

Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #281 posted 11/09/14 2:33am

nonamesleft

I found it today, sort of: downloadable one track at a time and they're 64kbps, sad so hardly worth the effort unless desperate. How long before I get desperate....

----------
Lets just go somewhere (we can funk)
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Reply #282 posted 11/09/14 2:41am

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

I have a better quality Databank than on this set. You can even hear Prince start it off with "1,2 buckle my shoe" and it's real clear. I also have better quality We Can Funk. But as a whole it's a good set.


I got a question for people, Where is Blast From The Past 1.0? I have yet to find this.
__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
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Reply #283 posted 11/09/14 5:06am

novabrkr

Ah, everything's back to normal.

Some 30+ year old songs not deemed good enough to be on the albums leak and nobody's talking about the new releases anymore. wink

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Reply #284 posted 11/09/14 5:39am

OperatingTheta
n

Looking forward to the opportunity to hear this set in full. There seems to be something of interest on every disc.

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Reply #285 posted 11/09/14 6:39am

bluegangsta

avatar

joyinrepetition said:

I got a question for people, Where is Blast From The Past 1.0? I have yet to find this.

It's nothing too exciting.

Disc One (89:09)
Instrumental sessions recorded in the rehearsal room at Owen Husney's Loring Park office in Minneapolis 55:50 (1977):01 - Instrumental #1 / 05:1402 - Instrumental #2 / 06:2203 - Instrumental #3 / 06:1404 - Instrumental #4 / 08:2805 - Instrumental #5 / 06:5506 - Instrumental #6 / 08:1207 - Instrumental #7 / 07:4308 - Instrumental #8 / 06:36
09 - Wouldnít You Love To Love Me? / 05:00 (1978)10 - Do Yourself A Favor / 08:39 (1982)11 - Turn It Up / 05:14 (1982)12 - No Call U / 03:02 (1982)13 - Extraloveable / 07:40 (1982)14 - Baby, You're A Trip / 03:46 (1982)

Disc Two (90:52)
01 - Lust U Always (Full Prince Vocal Version) / 05:12 (1982)02 - Purple Music / 10:50 (1982) 03 - Chocolate / 05:52 (1983)04 - Possessed / 08:45 (1983)05 - G-Spot / 04:58 (1983)06 - Darling Nikki (Extended Version) / 03:58 (1983)07 - Computer Blue (Full Version) / 14:03 (1983)08 - Take Me With U (Extended Version) 4:50 (1984)09 - Our Destiny (Lisa Coleman Vocals) / 03:00 (1984)10 - Manic Monday / 02:50 (1985)11 - The Dance Electric (Extended Version) By AndrÈ Cymone (Feat. Prince) / 11:48 (1985)12 - Old Friends 4 Sale (Original Version) / 03:34 (1985)13 - Go / 04:47 (1985)14 - Can I Play With U? (Long Version) / 06:28 (1985)

Disc Three (89:15)
Prince & The Revolution : Parade Demos / 42:58 (1985):01 - Wendy's Parade / 02:1102 - New Position / 02:2003 - I Wonder U / 01:3604 - Under The Cherry Moon / 02:5705 - Others Here With Us / 02:4306 - Life Can Be So Nice / 03:1407 - Sometimes It Snows In April / 06:5208 - All My Dreams / 07:2009 - Girls & Boys / 05:3610 - Love Or $ / 04:10
11 - Baby Go-Go / 04:40 (1986)12 - Data Bank / 07:56 (1986)13 - U / 04:14 (1987)14 - The Line #2 (Later Version) / 08:51 (1987)15 - 4 Lust / 03:26 (1987)16 - The Max / 04:57 (1988)17 - Fuchsia Light / 06:36 (1988)18 - Bliss / 04:06 (1989)19 - American In Paris / 05:25 (1989)

Disc Four (89:12)
01 - Vicki Waiting (Long Version) / 07:14 (1989)02 - Dance With The Devil / 07:55 (1989)03 - Uh-Huh! / 06:17 (1991)
Glam Slam Wallpaper / 56:15 (1994):04 - Poem / 03:3705 - Interactive / 03:2306 - Come / 04:2207 - Endorphinmachine / 03:5308 - Space / 04:3009 - Race / 06:1410 - Funky Design / 03:4411 - Mad / 05:3012 - Chaos And Disorder / 04:1213 - Right The Wrong / 04:4014 - Strays Of The World / 05:0915 - Gold / 06:35
16 - Stone / 03:02 (1995)17 - Do U Wanna Get Funky? (Xcerpt) / 01:34 (1999)18 - Purple House / 03:39 (2004)19 - A Case Of U / 03:39 (2007)

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #286 posted 11/09/14 7:32am

smokeverbs

avatar

Ok, I don't have "Work It", so I can't comment on how these tracks compare to those copies.

Disc 1

1. Don't Let Him Fool Ya

Sounds very good compared to the previous leak. Treble a bit much. Verdict = KEEP. I THINK THIS IS FROM '81 and not '82 however. Your thoughts?


2. Moonbeam Levels

Highs not as exagerated as last week's leak, but I think last week's leak is better. This one sounds like there's a blanket over the speaker. However, still a definite improvement over "Perfect Unreleased Prince" where it has too much noise reduction. Verdict = KEEP, but I have a question for discussion: This, and last week's leak, both run slower than the previous versions we've had. It sounds fine, and MAY be the proper running speed, but see Purple Rain Below.


3. Lady Cab Driver (instrumental)

FAKE. OBVIOUS FAKE. Not even a nice try, Eye. Verdict = YO MAMA!


4. Possessed

This sounds like shit. An overtweeked copy of what we've already had. My best copy is from "1999 Homemade Edition" from The Unheard Music blog. Verdict = DUMP.


5. Traffic Jam

Very similar to last week's leak, but that leak was only in 128k/s. Verdict = KEEP.


6. Purple Rain (demo)

I have my doubts about the authenticity of this one, but I would like to be proven wrong. My thoughts: Well, it sounds better than "Purple Rush" or "The Avenue", but this sound stitched together. The orchestra is too loud. The whole thing runs too slow. Was it last year when the "orchestral overdubs only" version of Purple Rain leaked? This sounds like someone laid that track over the original live version. You can still hear the Audience, especially in the first half, sorry Fragile. The string coda is Out Of Synch with the rest of the track. Now, this is all nicely done for the most part, but my verdict is Homemade Mix, but Keep, because the sound quality is better than what we've had before. I'd love to hear some other folk's thoughts on this one.


7. 100 MPH

What's happening in the very beginning of the intro? Eye's poorly done attempt to "fix" the dropout in the fourth note? My copy from "The Work" gets pretty bad sounding around :47, which continues into the first verse. This one sounds like a lower gen copy of what we've had before. Verdict = KEEP, but I'll be restoring the first few seconds of the intro from "the Work" to this one. Seriously, listen to the first few seconds of this version, it's Terribly done.


8. Around The World In a Day #2 KEEP. KEEP KEEP KEEP. A MAJOR UPGRADE.


9. Toy Box See #8.


10. Teacher Teacher

Minor Improvement over The Work. Highs are a bit exagerated. Verdict = KEEP.


11. Neon Telephone.

Different mix than what we've had before. I'd love to know which came first, but I'm inclined to label this #2 as it has more overdubs than the previous one. Verdict = KEEP.


12. Empty Room

So are we still calling this one #2? I've always, always thought this had '90s overdubs on it. I've always loved it regardless, and consider this version, whether it's from '85 or '95 to be the best version of Empty Room. That said, What happened to the word "hair" in verse two? I don't find this to be much of an upgrade, despite including Prince's count-off in the intro. It's very similar to what we've already had. Verdict = YOUR CALL.


13. Splash

This has the same over-exaggerated highs that appear in last week's Moonbeam Levels leak, and I find it difficult to listen to. That said, this is missing Clare Fisher's Orchestral overdubs, and thus should now be labelled #1, and the previous one is #2. Verdict = KEEP, But requires some further EQing to reduce the highs.


14. Eternity

This is definately not the same mix as what we've had before. It's also a higher quality sounding version. I don't have "work it", so I don't know if that's an upgrade from "The work", but on The Work it's smothered in noise reduction. So are we calling this one #2 now? Verdict = KEEP.


15. A Couple Of Miles This sounds pretty much identical to the previous leak.

[Edited 11/9/14 7:33am]

[Edited 11/9/14 8:02am]

Keep your headphones on.
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Reply #287 posted 11/09/14 7:56am

KingSausage

avatar

^^
Awesome post!
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #288 posted 11/09/14 8:06am

smokeverbs

avatar

Disc 2

1. Everybody Want What They Don't Got

I've never heard this one before, is it newly freed? Anyway, it's a KEEPer.

. . .

2. Adonis & Bathsheba

Sounds very similar to the wma leak, but louder, and lossless this time. Verdict = KEEP.

. . .

3. Data Bank #1

Sounds Identical to the previous leak. I've always preferred #2, but your milage may vary.

. . .

4. Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

Is this #1 or #2? I could never tell them apart. Either way, this sounds similar to "The Work".

. . .

5. We Can Funk #2

This sounds identical to BOC.

. . .

6. Girl O My Dreams

Very, very, very similar to previous leaks. Also, why is this out of sequence? It goes BEFORE Can't Stop This Feeling.

. . .

7. Elephants & Flowers #2

This sounds very, very similar to "30 Years of Unreleased Funk", but not quite as good. Verdict = DUMP.

. . .

8. Girl Power

So is this #1 or #2? Sounds much better than "The Work", but it's a different version. Verdict = KEEP.

. . .

9. Electric Chair

Instrumental remix version that I haven't heard before. Really Good sound quality, but inessential. Verdict = KEEP if you like it.

. . .

10. Batdance #1

Wow, does this sound like shit or what? I think this is sourced from the Fun With Vinyl version, but slowed down a bit and cranked up. This track has never sounded wonderful, but it's too distorted here. Verdict = DUMP.

. . .

11. Batdance (featuring big daddy kane)

Beats the wma leak. Verdict - KEEP. I've seamlessly edited out Kane's verse, as it's just silly, even though I'm a fan.

. . .

12. Trust (7")

Edited version of track 13. It's up to you.

. . .

13. Trust (Shep Pettibone Mix)

Has less tape hiss on it than the previous leak of this version. Still doesn't sound wonderful, but this is an improvement. Verdict = KEEP.

. . .

14. Cream (Straight Pass)

What IS this? WHO is singing lead vocal? WHY does it segue into a version of "Things Have Got 2 Change/2 The Wire"? This is really, really, really bad. But the sound quality is fine. Verdict = ???

. . .

15. 18 & Over

I don't understand why this is included at all. It's shorter than both Crystal Ball and the previous leaks. Someone over at G101 said it's identical to "Embraced By The Light Vol 1", which I don't have. Sound quality is fine though. Verdict = DUMP.

[Edited 11/9/14 8:11am]

Keep your headphones on.
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Reply #289 posted 11/09/14 8:52am

Romeoblu

What we need now is In a large room with no light, It's a wonderful day, Go, Can i play with u and a full perfect Heaven.

Then we will have all the out takes from 1985/1986 in excellent sound quality.

Also a full perfect Cosmic Day, but I don't believe we will ever get that unless Prince decides to treat us.
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Reply #290 posted 11/09/14 8:54am

imprimis

.

[Edited 11/9/14 9:06am]

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Reply #291 posted 11/09/14 9:07am

imprimis

Regarding track 6 of this set, the Purple Rain "demo", I would argue very strongly for this being a late-1983 "work-in-progress" version.

...

Missing is the pristine Wendy Melvoin chorused guitar opening (with the synth white noise segue)-- although we do have its equivalent from the basic tracks derived from the live performance (albeit partially clipped off). This is plausibly explained by the likely very early developmental stage this particular recording represents.

...

Clearly, this is not the casual product of a "homemade mix". All of the sound elements are in *stereo*. The only known circulating source for the August 3, 1983 First Avenue benefits concert recording is a second or third+ generation VHS derived from a source *mono* Betamax video recording. And the sound quality on this recording is too "finessed" and unmuddled to be a soundboard mixdown (which may perhaps exist amongst elite traders from the same sources as the soundboard rehearsals for this show, but wouldn't account for or explain the other "studio-enhanced" parts of this recording).

...

There are background vocal overdubs, including those of Prince, some of which differ from what were used in the final 1984 PR album mix (presumably, either re-recorded yet again later on, situated low in the mix, stacked behind further overdubs, or eliminated altogether). There are a few lead guitar flourishes that are overdubbed versus the "unmolested" live First Avenue recording (some of which, again, for varying reasons, were not utilized in the final 1984 PR album mix). And there is echo or reverb on certain of the elemental tracks in this mix.

...

Certainly, a truly live recording could not have Prince engaged in multiple of the same instrumental parts or vocals simultaneously. On the latter note, it appears Prince may have had different ideas about the chorus, at this early point in the production. The "Purple Rain, Purple Rain" incantation is more "direct" in its approach here.

...

As an incidental note, the "plantive cry"/coo-ing at the end of the song appears either to be unused in the mix on this recording, or only partially used and buried low in the mix.

...

Lisa Coleman's Oberheim OB8/OBXa strings interplay here with the real orchestral strings, and are left much higher in the mix than the final album version (which eliminated much of these synth tracks altogether). Dr Fink's electric piano is also slightly higher in the mix here. Prince's solo lead guitar has a bit less manipulation and processing.

....

The instrumental-isolated strings orchestration/electric piano/Oberheim "leak" you are referring to, has been circulating since approximately 1988 or 1989. However, only in approximately the past year has that recording been made available to the broader collecting/trading community in much superior quality to the muddy, too-fast or too-slow, many-generations-in leak available on earlier bootlegs.

...

And it would appear that it is the source tape for that very recording from which this longer "work-in-progress" Purple Rain is derived. Earlier bootlegs continued beyond the isolated orchestration to the first verse of this "work-in-progress" Purple Rain, before cutting off. With BFTP 2.0, we have apparently the remainder of the source tape in considerably improved quality.

...

The mix is still quite raw. You cite the sound of the audience, but that may be an artefact of how early on this represents in the mixing/editing/post-production process, or perhaps at this particular moment in time, Prince entertained the idea of having the album retain the full "live" feel of its Side B performances.

...

To call this a proper "demo" version, I suppose, entails how broadly you wish to define that term. I believe, to be entirely technical, that this is a "mix-down" tape from the console at Sunset Sound, from the very day of the recording sessions in late Summer/early Fall 1983 with David Coleman, Peggy Mac, and Novi Novog for the orchestral string overdubs, to test the "results" of superimposing these particular overdub tracks upon an already "partially-studio enhanced" set of Purple Rain basic tracks.

...

I quite frankly do not believe that a much longer version of the "production version" used on the final 1984 PR album was ever assembled or mixed. I imagine the "missing verse" from this early version was eliminated for good quite early in the mixing/editing process. I believe the album version is the ultimate product of considerable editing and mixing, and was probably pre-emptively edited (and edited for "good taste" reasons), unlike the compromises other tracks may ultimately had to endure later on in constructing the final PR album.

...

The elemental and source tracks necessary to create such an "extended album mix version" clearly exist, however, if Prince or an authorized party were ever so-inclined in the future. If the final album mix is itself "directly and immediately" an edit, I would anticipate an extended instrumental opening, but no added verse, and probably not the added guitar coda during the solo. These are virtually impossible to corroborate or substantiate speculations, however.

...

This 12+ minute "work-in-progress" version I suspect is the exact recording elite traders/'T'/etc. referred to when they claimed in the distant past to have the "full length/12 minute version of Purple Rain".

...

This track does need to be speeded up by at least 4% for proper playback speed. Audacity should prove to be of assistance here.

...

...

smokeverbs said:

...

6. Purple Rain (demo)

I have my doubts about the authenticity of this one, but I would like to be proven wrong. My thoughts: Well, it sounds better than "Purple Rush" or "The Avenue", but this sound stitched together. The orchestra is too loud. The whole thing runs too slow. Was it last year when the "orchestral overdubs only" version of Purple Rain leaked? This sounds like someone laid that track over the original live version. You can still hear the Audience, especially in the first half, sorry Fragile. The string coda is Out Of Synch with the rest of the track. Now, this is all nicely done for the most part, but my verdict is Homemade Mix, but Keep, because the sound quality is better than what we've had before. I'd love to hear some other folk's thoughts on this one.

...

[Edited 11/9/14 9:34am]

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Reply #292 posted 11/09/14 9:19am

S3V3N

"Menstrual Cycle"... really?!?

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Reply #293 posted 11/09/14 9:25am

aalloca

avatar

imprimis said:

Regarding track 6 of this set, the Purple Rain "demo", I would argue very strongly for this being a late-1983 "work-in-progress" version.

...

Missing is the pristine Wendy Melvoin chorused guitar opening (with the synth white noise segue)-- although we do have its equivalent from the basic tracks derived from the live performance (albeit partially clipped off). This is plausibly explained by the likely very early developmental stage this particular recording represents.

...

Clearly, this is not the casual product of a "homemade mix". All of the sound elements are in *stereo*. The only known circulating source for the August 3, 1983 First Avenue benefits concert recording is a second or third+ generation VHS derived from a source *mono* Betamax video recording. And the sound quality on this recording is too "finessed" and unmuddled to be a soundboard mixdown (which may perhaps exist amongst elite traders from the same sources as the soundboard rehearsals for this show, but wouldn't account for or explain the other "studio-enhanced" parts of this recording).

...

There are background vocal overdubs, including those of Prince, some of which differ from what were used in the final 1984 PR album mix (presumably, either re-recorded yet again later on, situated low in the mix, stacked behind further overdubs, or eliminated altogether). There are a few [minor] lead guitar flourishes that are overdubbed versus the "unmolested" live First Avenue recording (some of which, again, for varying reasons, were not utilized in the final 1984 PR album mix). And there is echo or reverb on certain of the elemental tracks in this mix.

...

Certainly, a truly live recording could not have Prince engaged in multiple of the same instrumental parts or vocals simultaneously. On the latter note, it appears Prince may have had different ideas about the chorus, at this early point in the production. The "Purple Rain, Purple Rain" incantation is more "direct" in its approach here.

...

As an incidental note, the "plantive cry"/coo-ing at the end of the song appears either to be unused in the mix on this recording, or only partially used and buried low in the mix.

...

Lisa Coleman's Oberheim OB8/OBXa strings interplay here with the real orchestral strings, and are left much higher in the mix than the final album version (which eliminated much of these synth tracks altogether).

....

The instrumental-isolated strings orchestration/electric piano/Oberheim track you are referring to, has been circulating since approximately 1988 or 1989. However, only in approximately the past year has that recording been made available to the broader collecting/trading community in much superior quality to the muddy, too-fast or too-slow, many-generations-in leak available on earlier bootlegs.

...

And it would appear that it is the source tape for that very recording from which this longer "work-in-progress" Purple Rain is derived. Earlier bootlegs continued beyond the isolated orchestration to the first verse of this "work-in-progress" Purple Rain, before cutting off. With BFTP 2.0, we have apparently the remainder of the source tape in considerably improved quality.

...

The mix is still quite raw. You cite the sound of the audience, but that may be an artefact of how early on this represents in the mixing/editing/post-production process, or perhaps at this particular moment in time, Prince entertained the idea of having the album retain the full "live" feel of its Side B performances.

...

To call this a proper "demo" version, I suppose, entails how broadly you wish to define that term. I believe, to be entirely technical, that this is a "mix-down" tape from the console at Sunset Sound, from the very day of the recording sessions in late Summer/early Fall 1983 with David Coleman, Peggy Mac, and Novi Novog for the orchestral string overdubs, to test the "results" of superimposing these particular overdub tracks upon an already "partially-studio enhanced" set of Purple Rain basic tracks.

...

I quite frankly do not believe that a much longer version of the "production version" used on the final 1984 PR album was ever assembled or mixed. I imagine the "missing verse" from this early version was eliminated for good quite early in the mixing/editing process. I believe the album version is the ultimate product of considerable editing and mixing, and was probably pre-emptively edited (and edited for "good taste" reasons), unlike the compromises other tracks may ultimately had to have endured later on in constructing the final PR album.

...

The elemental and source tracks necessary to create such an "extended album mix version" clearly exist, however, if Prince or an authorized party were ever so-inclined in the future. If the final album mix is itself "directly and immediately" an edit, I would anticipate an extended instrumental opening, but no added verse, and probably not the added guitar coda during the solo. These are virtually impossible to corroborate or substantiate speculations, however.

...

This 12+ minute "work-in-progress" version I suspect is the exact recording elite traders/'T'/etc. referred to when they claimed in the distant past to have the "full length/12 minute version of Purple Rain".

...

This track does need to be speeded up by at least 4% for proper playback speed. Audacity should prove to be of assistance here.

...

...

Brilliant info above. great analysis, type of stuff I love to see on the board.

[Edited 11/9/14 9:25am]

Music is the best...
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Reply #294 posted 11/09/14 9:34am

smokeverbs

avatar

imprimis said:

A lot of stuff that I'd like to comment on but don't need to quote in this box.

Everything you said is super logical and makes a lot of sense.

.

However:

.

As you said, the orchestra track only surfaced for the common person in the last year or so. That doesn't explain by itself why we haven't seen This particular mix before, but it suggests that it couldn't have existed before now, because "Eye Records" didn't have the pieces until recently. AND there are several other Fakes in this new set, which sheds doubt on anything that seems out of place.

.

But as we both said, the track is definately not sourced from any previously available boot. The fact that the end of the song, before the string coda fades out so abruptly, nearly missing prince's final vocal, is also telling, because if someone was atempting to create this, they'd have to somehow get out of the Aug 3 version before "we love you very much..." Also, if this IS fake, the fact that the whole thing fades in is also telling, because there's no way to cleanly merge the beginning of the Piano/Strings tape with the beginning of the Aug 3 '83 version. And, I pointed out the audience noise, because Fragile claimed there wasn't any.

.

It's entirely possible that this is exactly what it claims to be, but there are just too many things "wrong" with it for me to buy that it's legit. This is just one person's opinion though and we will likely never know the truth. At the very least, Eye records isn't going to admit to anything.

.

I'm calling it Fake. I'd like some more discussion on this from some other experts.

Imprimis, I'm not trying to discredit Your opinion, just adding to the discussion.

Keep your headphones on.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #295 posted 11/09/14 9:40am

imprimis

The "isolated orchestral overdubs" has been circulating in poor/below average quality since the late 1980s, and most bootlegs incorporated approximately the first 1+ minute of this extended "Purple Rain" "mix" here after a play-through of the just the isolated orchestration, including the extended instrumental guitars/piano/synth opening and ending right after Prince's first verse.

...

Last year, just the orchestration (edited by traders to disinclude the little 1+ minute leak of this longer Purple Rain) began circulating on-line in much improved quality.

...

This "mix" is less a proper mix, and more a rough studio-playback (from the console) with an already partially overdubbed set of Purple Rain basic live tracks and the orchestral arrangement superimposed for "test"/"evaluation" purposes at the mixing console, printed to tape.

...

I should emphasize again that the basic elements of of the August 1983 First Avenue live performance (from which the song originates) *have no previously or currently known* circulating recordings in soundboard quality or from a multitrack or stereo source.

...

And there are backing vocals (P's, in particular for purposes of demonstrating my assessment) that could not logically be part of a live recording, and guitar flourishes that are clearly not on the Betamax/VHS-derived live First Avenue performance recording we are familiar with. The isolated tracks making up this "mix" also have had echo and reverb and moderate studio effects, meaning that however they were imposed upon the recording would require access to the entire underlying multitracks.

....

I think the source of disagreement here is that this is not properly a "mix", but a testing and toying by [Sunset Sound] studio engineers of creating a quick test mixdown (which to our good fortune was committed to tape and leaked), that reveals a sense of what a longer studio working-version of Purple Rain comprised.

....

This is, in a sense, a "pseudo-mix" (my apologies for inventing a ridiculous term), but it is from a single set of official sources and from the actual production of the album, not pieced together by bootleggers or traders later on from multiple sources varyingly obtained; rather, done right there in a single instance at the console at Sunset Sound by studio engineers in late 1983, quite possibly with P, and almost certainly Wendy and/or Lisa, at their side.

....

smokeverbs said:

imprimis said:

A lot of stuff that I'd like to comment on but don't need to quote in this box.

Everything you said is super logical and makes a lot of sense.

.

However:

.

As you said, the orchestra track only surfaced for the common person in the last year or so. That doesn't explain by itself why we haven't seen This particular mix before, but it suggests that it couldn't have existed before now, because "Eye Records" didn't have the pieces until recently. AND there are several other Fakes in this new set, which sheds doubt on anything that seems out of place.

.

But as we both said, the track is definately not sourced from any previously available boot. The fact that the end of the song, before the string coda fades out so abruptly, nearly missing prince's final vocal, is also telling, because if someone was atempting to create this, they'd have to somehow get out of the Aug 3 version before "we love you very much..." Also, if this IS fake, the fact that the whole thing fades in is also telling, because there's no way to cleanly merge the beginning of the Piano/Strings tape with the beginning of the Aug 3 '83 version. And, I pointed out the audience noise, because Fragile claimed there wasn't any.

.

It's entirely possible that this is exactly what it claims to be, but there are just too many things "wrong" with it for me to buy that it's legit. This is just one person's opinion though and we will likely never know the truth. At the very least, Eye records isn't going to admit to anything.

.

I'm calling it Fake. I'd like some more discussion on this from some other experts.

Imprimis, I'm not trying to discredit Your opinion, just adding to the discussion.

[Edited 11/9/14 9:57am]

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Reply #296 posted 11/09/14 9:47am

aalloca

avatar

First off, my faith in this board has been restored as all the peeps reaching out to me.

Also the analysis has been incredible.

What I am really digging is "everybody wants what they don't got" for me this sounds the most different from things he had done.

without going down the path of this era is better and he sucks now or vice versa, which I am guilty of often.

I truly believe for me, the risks he took regardless of the type of song makes a much better listening experience for me.

I wish he would do a vault series like Dylan, and continue to go whatever route he feels spritually driven by, I think it would get the monkey off his back of always being compared to classic era vs now.

These songs are just too good to let sit.

the empy room track is throwing me for a curve ball. as I the track sound like prime 93 and 94 era to me, to see 85 I am not convinced.

What is amazing is how much material still surfaces that is incredible, even after the core original outtakes we all know. Super talented fcker

Music is the best...
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Reply #297 posted 11/09/14 9:53am

smokeverbs

avatar

imprimis said:

The "isolated orchestral overdubs" has been circulating in poor/below average quality since the late 1980s, and most bootlegs incorporated approximately the first 1+ minute of this extended "Purple Rain" "mix" here after a play-through of the just the isolated orchestration, including the extended instrumental guitars/piano/synth opening and ending right after Prince's first verse.

...

Last year, just the orchestration (edited to disinclude the little leak of this longer Purple Rain) began circulating on-line in much improved quality.

...

This "mix" is less a proper mix, and more a rough studio-playback (from the console) with an already partially overdubbed set of Purple Rain basic live tracks and the orchestral arrangement superimposed for "test"/"evaluation" purposes at the mixing console, printed to tape.

...

I should emphasize again that the basic elements of of the August 1983 First Avenue live performance (from which the song originates) have *never been made available previously* in soundboard quality or stereo.

...

And there are backing vocals (P's, in particular for purposes of demonstrating my assessment) that could not logically be part of a live recording, and guitar flourishes that are clearly not on the Betamax/VHS-derived live First Avenue performance recording we are familiar with. The isolated tracks making up this "mix" also have had echo and reverb and moderate studio effects, meaning that however they were imposed upon the recording would require access to the entire underlying multitracks.

....

I think the source of disagreement here is that this is not properly a "mix", but a testing and toying by [Sunset Sound] studio engineers of creating a quick test mixdown (which to our good fortune was committed to tape and leaked), that reveals a sense of what a longer working-version of Purple Rain comprised.

....

This is, in a sense, a "pseudo-mix", but from official sources and from the actual production of the album.

....

Listening to it all, again. and Again. Alright, I do hear the added elements (backing vox and some extra guitar here and there). Perhaps I just don't trust Eye Records? This is a really cool version, regardless. I'm inclined to agree with you now. You have to admit though, the other fakes on this set (Lady Cab Driver, Friend Mother Sister Wife, etc) make it easy to suspect other things.

Edit: No Audience noise on the string coda, nor any Piano. Again, very odd. I'm flip flopping, but I'm still not convinced.

[Edited 11/9/14 9:54am]

[Edited 11/9/14 9:59am]

[Edited 11/9/14 10:00am]

Keep your headphones on.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #298 posted 11/09/14 10:02am

imprimis

You are correct about the fakes/filler that pad this release, although perhaps for maximum commercial benefit Eye Records wanted to appeal to a wide audience not fully initiated to the bootleg field, in reincluding tracks that are in no better quality than previously available, and some worse quality. I suspect most of what constitutes new leaks here is coming (with collusion/commercial interest) sraight from the traders directly in possession of those tracks, or that Eye Records or its sources had access to wherever on-line these tracks are/were traded in the past 1-5 years when these leaks ("Adonis and Bathsheba"/"Trust" remixes/"Go"/1988 shop-around tape with "Cosmic Day"/"Traffic Jam"/etc.) began sprouting up, and ended up getting some of the more desirable goodies the most of rest of us missed out on.

...

smokeverbs said:

imprimis said:

The "isolated orchestral overdubs" has been circulating in poor/below average quality since the late 1980s, and most bootlegs incorporated approximately the first 1+ minute of this extended "Purple Rain" "mix" here after a play-through of the just the isolated orchestration, including the extended instrumental guitars/piano/synth opening and ending right after Prince's first verse.

...

Last year, just the orchestration (edited to disinclude the little leak of this longer Purple Rain) began circulating on-line in much improved quality.

...

This "mix" is less a proper mix, and more a rough studio-playback (from the console) with an already partially overdubbed set of Purple Rain basic live tracks and the orchestral arrangement superimposed for "test"/"evaluation" purposes at the mixing console, printed to tape.

...

I should emphasize again that the basic elements of of the August 1983 First Avenue live performance (from which the song originates) have *never been made available previously* in soundboard quality or stereo.

...

And there are backing vocals (P's, in particular for purposes of demonstrating my assessment) that could not logically be part of a live recording, and guitar flourishes that are clearly not on the Betamax/VHS-derived live First Avenue performance recording we are familiar with. The isolated tracks making up this "mix" also have had echo and reverb and moderate studio effects, meaning that however they were imposed upon the recording would require access to the entire underlying multitracks.

....

I think the source of disagreement here is that this is not properly a "mix", but a testing and toying by [Sunset Sound] studio engineers of creating a quick test mixdown (which to our good fortune was committed to tape and leaked), that reveals a sense of what a longer working-version of Purple Rain comprised.

....

This is, in a sense, a "pseudo-mix", but from official sources and from the actual production of the album.

....

Listening to it all, again. and Again. Alright, I do hear the added elements (backing vox and some extra guitar here and there). Perhaps I just don't trust Eye Records? This is a really cool version, regardless. I'm inclined to agree with you now. You have to admit though, the other fakes on this set (Lady Cab Driver, Friend Mother Sister Wife, etc) make it easy to suspect other things.

[Edited 11/9/14 9:54am]

[Edited 11/9/14 10:40am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #299 posted 11/09/14 10:05am

imprimis

You have to understand that this is just the latter part of the cassette that has been circulating since approximately 1988, that begins with the isolated orchestration, and then transitions to run-through of the "extended" Purple Rain with the previous orchestration section superimposed. The earliness of this "leak" would suggest rather strongly the authenticity of the entire recording.

...

Back then, there was not yet a well-developed trading community such as there was only a few years later (or today, for that matter), nor ready access to [digital] audio editing tools to provide the means or the audience for contriving such a thing. We just get here the latter part of that cassette now in full (this particular and exact "extended" take of Purple Rain), and from a recording earlier in generation [or not deliberately downgraded in quality by later traders/bootleggers].

...

And that still doesn't explain the overdubbed elements independent of these things, which, for my purposes at least, is proof enough.

...

This is a very rough and early mix-down, presumably done in "real-time" at the console quickly (which I suspect was done the very day of the Coleman/Mac/Novog orchestral overdub recording sessions), and nothing to regard as a potential near-"candidate" for album release (with respect to your mentioning certain parts have discernable audience noise/certain parts not).

...

That isn't to say that Eye Records are not dirty on many other things (clearly they are), and calling this a proper "demo", with little elaboration or incomplete explanation, may be something of a prevarication (or at least likely to mislead, on their part) here.

...

I was actually going to mention the string coda earlier. I believe (and have more or less always believed) that *at least some* of the "audience noise" in the final PR album version of this song is from, or has been "enhanced" with, a stock sound library.

...

In an interview with David Rivkin, I believe he mentioned that the actual First Avenue audience that evening did not generate the full emotional response they were expecting (or perhaps that is his way of saying, something of usable production quality), and that they had to rely on playback captured from a baseball or football game audience (no joke) [I am assuming here that he is referring to the later production work on the track]. And clearly the levels on some instruments throughout this recording have been left too high (or too low)-- which goes to show that it's a very rough mix-down without much care intended or applied.

...

smokeverbs said:

Listening to it all, again. and Again. Alright, I do hear the added elements (backing vox and some extra guitar here and there). Perhaps I just don't trust Eye Records? This is a really cool version, regardless. I'm inclined to agree with you now. You have to admit though, the other fakes on this set (Lady Cab Driver, Friend Mother Sister Wife, etc) make it easy to suspect other things.

Edit: No Audience noise on the string coda, nor any Piano. Again, very odd. I'm flip flopping, but I'm still not convinced.

[Edited 11/9/14 10:45am]

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