Wildboy said:

[Snip - luv4u]

Listen, no one gives a shit.

No one is saying.."Oh shit, the Avengers made 200 million. The biggest box office opening ever...oops guess not because of inflation."

In 1999, The Phantom Menace was the #1 earning movie of the year.

In 2002 Attack of the Clones was the # 3 earning movie of the year.

In 2005 Revenge of the Sith was the #1 earning movie of the year.

Figure it out.

You are trying to claim that only "boarder line retards" went to see the prequels. Even with inflation these movies are some of the biggest money makers of all time.

The fact is: You don't like the Prequels. A lot of people do. You say "only people that are stupid or retarded." How old are you?

[Edited 5/11/12 22:00pm]

Actually, lots of people DO care about movie inflation because it has to do with what in Hollywood is called AIS (Ass in Seat) and that's what counts. Movies now a days are not attracting people in the same numbers they were two or three decades ago. This is partially due to improvements in home theatre quality, but it's also a reflection of a Hollywood that doesn't produce films as good as it did 20 or 30 years ago.

They can only raise the price of movie tickets so much to make up for lack of AIS, before they price themselves out (this already happened somewhat, and that's why prices have stayed the same since the slowdown in the economy)

A lot of people DON'T like the prequels, as I stated in my previous post, they have a MUCH lower rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and while the original trilogy won 10 academy awards, the prequel trilogy won ZERO.

And adjusted for inflation the prequel trilogy made less then half what the original trilogy did, despite the fact the the prequels were set up for success by A) coming in using one of the strongest brand names in existence B) had ten times the marketing of the original C) People had been talking about them for 3 years before they were released. When you start to consider all the prequels had going for them, they actually UNDER performed by far. I'm not saying that Lucas didn't make a bazillon dollars with the prequels, it just wasn't the 10 bazillon dollars they were supposed to make.

Do you remember when The PhanMen undersold the amount of toys they were expecting to move by half? I do. These movies were actually a huge disappointment, and when adjusted for inflation, they are actually a black mark on the franchise.

Wildboy said:

Actually, lots of people DO care about movie inflation because it has to do with what in Hollywood is called AIS (Ass in Seat) and that's what counts. Movies now a days are not attracting people in the same numbers they were two or three decades ago. This is partially due to improvements in home theatre quality, but it's also a reflection of a Hollywood that doesn't produce films as good as it did 20 or 30 years ago.

They can only raise the price of movie tickets so much to make up for lack of AIS, before they price themselves out (this already happened somewhat, and that's why prices have stayed the same since the slowdown in the economy)

A lot of people DON'T like the prequels, as I stated in my previous post, they have a MUCH lower rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and while the original trilogy won 10 academy awards, the prequel trilogy won ZERO.

And adjusted for inflation the prequel trilogy made less then half what the original trilogy did, despite the fact the the prequels were set up for success by A) coming in using one of the strongest brand names in existence B) had ten times the marketing of the original C) People had been talking about them for 3 years before they were released. When you start to consider all the prequels had going for them, they actually UNDER performed by far. I'm not saying that Lucas didn't make a bazillon dollars with the prequels, it just wasn't the 10 bazillon dollars they were supposed to make.

Do you remember when The PhanMen undersold the amount of toys they were expecting to move by half? I do. These movies were actually a huge disappointment, and when adjusted for inflation, they are actually a black mark on the franchise.

Wow. This is so much better than the vile shit you were spewing earlier. This is well thought out and calm. I am not trying to be an ass when I tell you that I appreciate the this kind of communication from you.

I don't disagree with a lot of this. The Prequels didn't meet some people's expectations. How could they possibly? How could they, in some ways, recapture the youth of an entire generation? They were, however, groundbreaking. They were massively popular.

Listen, I appreciated the new Star Wars...they just don't mean as much to me as the originals. The ones I grew up with. They do for my kid, though. They are HIS Star Wars movies. It's kind of like how Prince could make his "best" album ever tomorrow, and I'd still fucking fight tooth and nail that Sign O' The Times is better. Because I've loved it a long time.

Anyways, I am gonna throw something up here, and we can agree to disagree like nice folks. Feel free to comment on my little essay I put up here...or not if you don't want.

For the most part, any criticism that can be leveled at the Prequels can be put upon the Original Trilogy as well.

The Original Trilogy wasn't widely accepted as "classic" until the late 90's. In the 70's and 80's it was mostly the youth that maintained that these movies were "classics". Adults, at the time, had much fun with the original trilogy but few were holding up the Original Star Wars to the level of Citizen Kane or The Godfather. The first movie was lauded primarily for it's Visual Effects and charming throwback to the serials appeal. It was a spectacle for sure, but respected for great acting/dialogue/script it was not. It is telling that Empire Strikes Back (widely considered the "best" Star Wars film) was not nominated for any of the major academy awards that Star Wars was. It is telling that the box office take was lower. Try to find some reviews from the late 70's/early 80's about the Original Trilogy. Many critics were very dismissive of the sequels. Most of the original Trilogy reviews on Rotten Tomatoes reviews are from 1997 and after.

Now, you have a whole generation of adults who grew up with Star Wars who are basically trashing the prequels because they are viewing the new Star Wars films without the aide of nostalgia tinted glasses that allow them to forgive the Original Trilogy of it's flaws. Experiencing Star Wars at age 8 is different than experiencing it at 38. Ironically, the 1st generation of Star Wars fans criticize the Prequels in much the same way that the generation before criticized the Original Trilogy--thin plot/bad acting/corny and clunking dialog/special effects overshadowing character & story. Compare Mark Hamill's acting to Hayden Christensen's and tell me that it is much better.

I am a High School teacher and the bulk of my students view the prequels as Star Wars. They dig the Original Trilogy but they call them "the old ones." When you say Skywalker they think Anakin 1st, then Luke. I think it will be interesting to see if there is a shift in public opinion/thought about the status of the prequels once this new generation of Star Wars fans (reared and raised on the prequels) grows up. There certainly was a shift in public opinion when the 1st generation of SW fans came into adulthood.

[Edited 5/11/12 22:28pm]

Very few of the kids I teach think the prequels are any good. And any that do change their mind when they turn about 14. As the kids who saw these films get older, the films will become LESS popular. My little brother was about 9 yrs old when The PhanMen hit the big screen and him and his friends NEVER cared for it (they actually bought a bunch of toys before the movie was released, and after seeing the film STOPPED PLAYING WITH THE TOYS. That pretty much sums things up.

As for the kids thinking Anikan, I think that has more to do with the Clone Wars show (which is a huge cut up from the prequel trilogy). You know you're in trouble when the star wars cartoon TV show has a bigger impact on young star wars fans then the movie.

Wildboy said:

Very few of the kids I teach think the prequels are any good. And any that do change their mind when they turn about 14. As the kids who saw these films get older, the films will become LESS popular. My little brother was about 9 yrs old when The PhanMen hit the big screen and him and his friends NEVER cared for it (they actually bought a bunch of toys before the movie was released, and after seeing the film STOPPED PLAYING WITH THE TOYS. That pretty much sums things up.

As for the kids thinking Anikan, I think that has more to do with the Clone Wars show (which is a huge cut up from the prequel trilogy). You know you're in trouble when the star wars cartoon TV show has a bigger impact on young star wars fans then the movie.

The reason the show is having an impact is because it is still new, ROTS came out five years ago? and TPM came out when I was about three from memory. The prequels are old, and I don't think anyone will argue when I say the first two of the prequels didn't have the "magic" of the old films, simply because in a lot of ways Phantom Menace was trying to be an updated New Hope and AotC seems more like a pilot of a series than a film.

two teachers?

all this time I've been talking to 2 f teachers???

i'm outta here

and wildboy: poor kids, you must the typical ogre teacher

Typical Ogre teacher? IDK where you went to school, but today's problems with youth and society in general stem from a lack of people dropping the hammer.

For the last 25 or so years, there has been a shift in US education (and Western education in general) away from results and higher test scores and learning, towards "self esteem" development. There was a recent study that measured students math skills, and their confidence in their math skills. In this study there were 8 different countries (the US and Sweden are the only ones I remember off the top of my head). Long story short, the US came in DEAD LAST with math knowledge and skill, but the kids thought they were doing fantastic.

And that's where things are now. A combination of "feel good" parenting, mixed with holding kids to zero standards, add in a dash of not knowing what to do with the kids who aren't headed for an ivy league school, and you have the perfect shit storm we are now experiencing in the US.There have been people protesting in the streets of every major US city for over a year, and people are wondering if maybe some thing's wrong.

I'm super tough on the kids who come to my classes. I'm never mean and I never put them down, but I won't put up with their bullshit (just like every other boss won't once they turn 18), and I won't except anything but their very best. Some kids need to study high level algebra because they are going to go on to a world class university, other kids have ADD shooting out of their ears and just need to learn how to sit still and shut their damn mouths for 3 minutes at a time. I've had female students who come from crazy abusive backgrounds and have serious problems, are these girls going to Harvard? Give me frigin break, if I can help keep these girls off of the stripper pole and teach them how to hold down a job and not get pregnant at 19 they've done more to improve the quality of their life then all the Trig in the world ever will.

This is the way things really are. I'd be nice if everyone had a high paying job with google and got to wear a suit to work, but LOTS of kids were delt a shitty hand in life, and becoming a millionare is not in the cards for them. And unlike a lot of teachers who just let kids skate and do a half assed job and graduate and get a half ass job and smoke pot all day, I chase the kids down and make them do better.

Who's got two thumbs and has been voted teacher of the year 3 times in a row by the parents of the kids I work with? THIS GUY!

[Edited 5/12/12 8:10am]

skywalker said:

eyewishuheaven said:

Wow. Learning all kinds of things about Wildboy today.

For the record, my order is:

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones

Cool. Someone who digs Phantom Menace most out of The Prequels. Lightsaber duel put it over the top for you? Something else?

[Edited 5/11/12 21:23pm]

Don't get me wrong, I recognize that it's not a 'really good' movie, but I seem to enjoy watching it the most of the prequels. And you know, I think it's because it actually takes its time to breathe a little, and at least tries to create some moods. Call me crazy, but I think my favourite scene might be when Anakin says goodbye to his mother in the street. The swelling music, the great (and practically constructed) set, and yes, Jake's and Pernilla's acting. The Phantom Menace really gave me that 'galaxy far, far away' feeling, whereas with II and III I often felt like I was being sold toys.

For the record, I enjoy The Clone Wars tv show very much, as well. My son and I have 'em all on blu-ray, and we watch them all the time. I actually think that the whole 'guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy' era works a lot better as a weekly show than it did as films.

Wildboy said:

Typical Ogre teacher? IDK where you went to school, but today's problems with youth and society in general stem from a lack of people dropping the hammer.

For the last 25 or so years, there has been a shift in US education (and Western education in general) away from results and higher test scores and learning, towards "self esteem" development. There was a recent study that measured students math skills, and their confidence in their math skills. In this study there were 8 different countries (the US and Sweden are the only ones I remember off the top of my head). Long story short, the US came in DEAD LAST with math knowledge and skill, but the kids thought they were doing fantastic.

And that's where things are now. A combination of "feel good" parenting, mixed with holding kids to zero standards, add in a dash of not knowing what to do with the kids who aren't headed for an ivy league school, and you have the perfect shit storm we are now experiencing in the US.There have been people protesting in the streets of every major US city for over a year, and people are wondering if maybe some thing's wrong.

I'm super tough on the kids who come to my classes. I'm never mean and I never put them down, but I won't put up with their bullshit (just like every other boss won't once they turn 18), and I won't except anything but their very best. Some kids need to study high level algebra because they are going to go on to a world class university, other kids have ADD shooting out of their ears and just need to learn how to sit still and shut their damn mouths for 3 minutes at a time. I've had female students who come from crazy abusive backgrounds and have serious problems, are these girls going to Harvard? Give me frigin break, if I can help keep these girls off of the stripper pole and teach them how to hold down a job and not get pregnant at 19 they've done more to improve the quality of their life then all the Trig in the world ever will.

This is the way things really are. I'd be nice if everyone had a high paying job with google and got to wear a suit to work, but LOTS of kids were delt a shitty hand in life, and becoming a millionare is not in the cards for them. And unlike a lot of teachers who just let kids skate and do a half assed job and graduate and get a half ass job and smoke pot all day, I chase the kids down and make them do better.

Who's got two thumbs and has been voted teacher of the year 3 times in a row by the parents of the kids I work with? THIS GUY!

as I said, POOR kids

you talk like someone out of the URSS with childhood issues and who masturbates reading statistic studies, and who thinks about the "miserable" life of those who couldn't or DIDN'T want to go to college, for whatever reason

do these parents know that use the words RETARDED and SHIT/CRAP in the Prince forums=

[Edited 5/12/12 8:57am]

Jurrasic Park ushered in the digital effects age. Before that I think only Jumaji had tried to show realistic organic characters that were CG.

And it's true, a lot people don't realize there was model work in the new Star Wars movies.

PS, I decided back in 5th grade when I saw Empire Strikes Back in the theater, that it DID NOT give me as much of the long time ago in a galaxy far far away feeling that 1977's Star Wars did. It has a lot to do with Empire jumping from soundstage to soundstage and not feeling like real environments, whereas in Star Wars even an artificial location like the Death Star or the Rebel Hanger bay had this mood of vast structure that seemed real. Also I was not keen to the mystical religious feeling of the Force turning into Kung Fu!

I hated Return of the Jedi. I fooled myself into thinking I liked it after seeing it, but then it slowly sunk in discussing it at lunch in 9th grade... I hated it.

But I was an school kid that was getting really critical with the movies.

Yeah, nice try Tyler/Skywalker. You're the same person.

I'm the guy trying to help the kids who can't make it to college, and get those kids into trade school so they can end up working in a dentists office at $30 an hour instead of at Taco Bell for $11. I never said that everyone should go to college. In fact I think college is overrated for middle of the road kids. And no, you should feel sorry for the kids who's teachers spend more time patting them on the back then teaching them how to bust their asses.

comperic2003 said:

"Sure, I'll release some highly-regarded songs from the hallowed vault. Just pay me $20. Oh, by the way, they will be littered with new and arbitrary overdubs, lyrics will be changed to accommodate my new beliefs and the album as a whole will be compressed to hell."

What many people don't seem to understand is that unreleased vault songs are... unreleased.

While I can understand that fans want an artist to respect classic, previously released material such as Star Wars, I don't see why and how an artist could be accountable for modifying material he kept for himself and that we happened to have heard only because it was stolen and made public by third parties...

Maybe Old Friends 4 Sale became a classic bootleg song, but as far as Prince was concerned no one had (or was supposed to have) heard it before it was released in 1999.

And I'll add that "arbitrary overdubs" mean nothing: any artistic choice is, by nature, arbitrary.

skywalker said:

midnightmover said:

I suspect your definition of "bona fide art" may differ from mine. Most bona fide art doesn't appeal to 8-year-olds.

[Edited 5/11/12 6:16am]

Snob. What are you talking about? Art appeals to a variety of people. Both Star Wars and Michael Jackson appeal to more than just 8 year olds. You know this.

You don't have to like either, but both MJ and George Lucas are some of the most influencial artists of all time. Both revolutionized their artforms. So again, what are you talking about?

[Edited 5/11/12 9:56am]

Not all influence is good. If a big, fat kid starts encouraging everyone in his class to eat Big Macs all day and succeeds in turning them into fat bastards, then he has been influential. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

For an entertaining description of how "George Lucas screwed up American cinema", watch this excerpt from the BBC documentary 'Continental Drifters'.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...mCP-RM1m8M

btw, readng this argument you're having with WildBoy I'm getting a strange sense of deja vu. A few years ago I remember you arguing in all seriousness that Prince's modern music was just as popular and highly regarded as his 80s work! Now you're doing the same thing with your man George Lucas. I think you need to ease off on this hero worship, dude. It's embarrassing.

I agree they have some similarities as far as 100% CONTROL. For both of them, that single thing is the absolute most vital component. Neither of them have any producer or studio to challenge them and so they do whatever they want, unfiltered. For better or worse. I for one have loved all 6 Star Wars movies. At 40 years old I grew up with the originals, and I can honestly say that history views them differently than we did back then. Nostalgia's a tough thing to mess with, but back in the day there was a green talking rabbit iin the comic books who was quite popular, I ate my C-3PO cereal, and every kid loved Ewoks just as much as the newer kids dig Jar Jar (though we all say we didn't). I've never really understood the great division about the prequels, but I think it speaks volumes at how much people fight and debate over them: people care about Star Wars, just like we care about Prince's music. The debates on here over new stuff is no different than the debates on SW sites over Lucas' work...which at the end of the day is a testemant to how much their work, past or present, has effected so many many people. They both made a huge mark in their field.

DFUNK said:

I bet Jaa Jaa Binks raps better than Tony M.

"If'n you'sa trow that a** in da air, mee'sa bet itsa gonna turn into sunshine!"

By golly, you're right. He does rap better.

artist76 said:

DFUNK said:

I bet Jaa Jaa Binks raps better than Tony M.

"If'n you'sa trow that a** in da air, mee'sa bet itsa gonna turn into sunshine!"

By golly, you're right. He does rap better.

Oh god, that's funny. Now I'm picturing Jar Jar being all 'gangsta' in the Call The Law video...

lucas said:

I agree they have some similarities as far as 100% CONTROL. For both of them, that single thing is the absolute most vital component. Neither of them have any producer or studio to challenge them and so they do whatever they want, unfiltered. For better or worse. I for one have loved all 6 Star Wars movies. At 40 years old I grew up with the originals, and I can honestly say that history views them differently than we did back then. Nostalgia's a tough thing to mess with, but back in the day there was a green talking rabbit iin the comic books who was quite popular, I ate my C-3PO cereal, and every kid loved Ewoks just as much as the newer kids dig Jar Jar (though we all say we didn't). I've never really understood the great division about the prequels, but I think it speaks volumes at how much people fight and debate over them: people care about Star Wars, just like we care about Prince's music. The debates on here over new stuff is no different than the debates on SW sites over Lucas' work...which at the end of the day is a testemant to how much their work, past or present, has effected so many many people. They both made a huge mark in their field.

I don't think Prince's as big of a controll freak as Alex Hann from possessed would have everyone think. Of course Prince doesn't want so douche producer or corporate suit telling him what his art should sound like, but then again what artist does?

That being said I think Prince should get some fresh blood in the studio and allow himself to be produced by someone like Timbaland

lucas said:

I agree they have some similarities as far as 100% CONTROL. For both of them, that single thing is the absolute most vital component. Neither of them have any producer or studio to challenge them and so they do whatever they want, unfiltered. For better or worse. I for one have loved all 6 Star Wars movies. At 40 years old I grew up with the originals, and I can honestly say that history views them differently than we did back then. Nostalgia's a tough thing to mess with, but back in the day there was a green talking rabbit iin the comic books who was quite popular, I ate my C-3PO cereal, and every kid loved Ewoks just as much as the newer kids dig Jar Jar (though we all say we didn't). I've never really understood the great division about the prequels, but I think it speaks volumes at how much people fight and debate over them: people care about Star Wars, just like we care about Prince's music. The debates on here over new stuff is no different than the debates on SW sites over Lucas' work...which at the end of the day is a testemant to how much their work, past or present, has effected so many many people. They both made a huge mark in their field.

Totally agree with this.

lucas said:

I agree they have some similarities as far as 100% CONTROL. For both of them, that single thing is the absolute most vital component. Neither of them have any producer or studio to challenge them and so they do whatever they want, unfiltered. For better or worse. I for one have loved all 6 Star Wars movies. At 40 years old I grew up with the originals, and I can honestly say that history views them differently than we did back then. Nostalgia's a tough thing to mess with, but back in the day there was a green talking rabbit iin the comic books who was quite popular, I ate my C-3PO cereal, and every kid loved Ewoks just as much as the newer kids dig Jar Jar (though we all say we didn't). I've never really understood the great division about the prequels, but I think it speaks volumes at how much people fight and debate over them: people care about Star Wars, just like we care about Prince's music. The debates on here over new stuff is no different than the debates on SW sites over Lucas' work...which at the end of the day is a testemant to how much their work, past or present, has effected so many many people. They both made a huge mark in their field.

Because THERE'S NO DIVISION

back in the day (99-05) the only complains were Jar Jar (who was seen as an unnecessary/cheesy comic relief), the juvenile romance scenes during the first half of Attack of the Clones, and Vader's "NOOOOOOOO" scream at the end of Revenge of the Sith

that WAS basically what people were complaining about. All that bullshit about people HATING the WHOLE prequels and considering them as three of the worst movies of all time is a manipulative revisionist lie, made by internet freaks or disturbing liars like Wildboy

during 99-05 people loved the special effects, Darth Maul, Yoda fighting and kicking ass, McDiarmid's eerie/menacing performances, McGregor delivering the goods in every film, and the awesome second half of Revenge of the Sith.

[Edited 5/16/12 4:11am]

ok hold on those 3 prequels sucked flat out don't fool yourself into thinking that when you think they suck they don't just because you weren't little anymore when they came out

there are millions of reasons they suck .. thats like saying the tony m era is as good as the wendy and lisa era .. or like saying prince did anything relevant after wb .. which he didn't

lucas butchered the legacy with those prequels .. its not just jar jar .. yeah maybe hammil wasn't the greatest actor ever but he was way way way better than EVERYONE in the prequels .. even nat portman was only fun to look at .. the acting was no treat .. the cgi is god awful too .. sure its fun at first but then you notice how bad it is ..

the similarity between prince and lucas is that they both manage to maintain a fanbase even tho the quality of output is scraping the bottom of a garbage can

also they both make product so bad that the fans watch or listen to it repeatedly just to confirm how bad it is while hoping magically that enough repetition will change how bad it is .. but the repetition only makes it worse between bad lyrics and bad plots and script .. its so bad you are embarrassed to let your own children watch or listen to lucas or prince .. because you know you are tarnishing their pallette for good taste

that noooooooooooooo at the end of sith was probably the best acting in the whole prequel .. and the only moment that actually made any sense to someone who wants more than just 10,000 lightsabers and spaceships ..

starwars has the best cgi in anymovie and it still looks like roger rabbit .. it simply does not work as a multi media film at all .. the old claymation and model ships looked and acted far more authentic ..

lucas should be applauded for breaking ground in technology .. just as prince did with the internet .. but the product that resulted was pure shit in both cases

both legacys of lucas and prince would have held up far better if they had ended their careers earlier .. lucas after indy 3 .. prince after wb .. these 2 would be universally loved and respected .. now both are seen as talentless egomaniacs who simply can't deliver anything close to the goods anymore .. it is embarassing to say you like starwars and prince anymore .. not because of his assless chaps but because of his musicless records and pointless movies both filled with tons of useless look what i can do crap CRAP crap ....

it's a shame to be embarrassed by your favorite artists .. all the excessive crap should be revisionist historied and deleted from time ... instead these 2 have scarred their fans for life with the trauma of horrendously soulless art

Wildboy said:

lucas said:

I agree they have some similarities as far as 100% CONTROL. For both of them, that single thing is the absolute most vital component. Neither of them have any producer or studio to challenge them and so they do whatever they want, unfiltered. For better or worse. I for one have loved all 6 Star Wars movies. At 40 years old I grew up with the originals, and I can honestly say that history views them differently than we did back then. Nostalgia's a tough thing to mess with, but back in the day there was a green talking rabbit iin the comic books who was quite popular, I ate my C-3PO cereal, and every kid loved Ewoks just as much as the newer kids dig Jar Jar (though we all say we didn't). I've never really understood the great division about the prequels, but I think it speaks volumes at how much people fight and debate over them: people care about Star Wars, just like we care about Prince's music. The debates on here over new stuff is no different than the debates on SW sites over Lucas' work...which at the end of the day is a testemant to how much their work, past or present, has effected so many many people. They both made a huge mark in their field.

I don't think Prince's as big of a controll freak as Alex Hann from possessed would have everyone think. Of course Prince doesn't want so douche producer or corporate suit telling him what his art should sound like, but then again what artist does?

That being said I think Prince should get some fresh blood in the studio and allow himself to be produced by someone like Timbaland

I was nodding my head at this sentence until I read the name Timbaland. He's good, but the last type of producer Prince should work with is a cookie-cutter R&B producer. He would need someone who wasn't wedded to any particular sound or style, but was skilled at getting the best out of an artist. Timbaland would be imposing his own style on things and that would be totally wrong.

There are any number of non-famous producers and engineers who could do that for Prince, but it will never happen. It's funny but Purple Rain actually captured the problem really well. In that film Wendy & Lisa had some good ideas to offer but Prince was too paranoid and controlling to let his guard down. In the film of course he overcame this problem and they all lived happily ever after. In real life though he has never gotten past this personality flaw. And his music is much poorer for it.

midnightmover said:

Wildboy said:

I don't think Prince's as big of a controll freak as Alex Hann from possessed would have everyone think. Of course Prince doesn't want so douche producer or corporate suit telling him what his art should sound like, but then again what artist does?

That being said I think Prince should get some fresh blood in the studio and allow himself to be produced by someone like Timbaland

I was nodding my head at this sentence until I read the name Timbaland. He's good, but the last type of producer Prince should work with is a cookie-cutter R&B producer. He would need someone who wasn't wedded to any particular sound or style, but was skilled at getting the best out of an artist. Timbaland would be imposing his own style on things and that would be totally wrong.

There are any number of non-famous producers and engineers who could do that for Prince, but it will never happen. It's funny but Purple Rain actually captured the problem really well. In that film Wendy & Lisa had some good ideas to offer but Prince was too paranoid and controlling to let his guard down. In the film of course he overcame this problem and they all lived happily ever after. In real life though he has never gotten past this personality flaw. And his music is much poorer for it.

biggest idiocy of all time. Are you seriously sayin' that Prince stopped releasing truly great music after PR? ...Parade, SOTT, Black Album, Lovesexy, half of D&P, Lovesymbol, Gold Experience... and don't forget that DM, C, and 1999 were basically SOLO albums.

seems that you're one of those orgers who thinks that PR was based on Prince's reality...HA! my God, man, face it: PR and the Kid character were loosely, very loosely based on Prince's real life; in tha movie, Prince NEEDED Wendy & Lisa to write Purple Rain, but in real life is basically A PRINCE SONG partially co-written with Wendy&Lisa. go figure

midnightmover said:

Wildboy said:

That being said I think Prince should get some fresh blood in the studio and allow himself to be produced by someone

He would need someone who wasn't wedded to any particular sound or style, but was skilled at getting the best out of an artist.

and nobody can't help Prince, because Prince is a VETERAN artist, the kind of +30 years old career artist that keeps releasing decent/modest albums that only the loyalists can appreciate, maybe with some spark of the glory of the old days (Musicology, 3121), but still modest albums. Why? because HE'S DONE as a cutting edge songwriter.

btw, that experiment with outside producers or collaborators or A&R men (whatever) already FAILED: remember Rave??

JoeTyler said:

midnightmover said:

I was nodding my head at this sentence until I read the name Timbaland. He's good, but the last type of producer Prince should work with is a cookie-cutter R&B producer. He would need someone who wasn't wedded to any particular sound or style, but was skilled at getting the best out of an artist. Timbaland would be imposing his own style on things and that would be totally wrong.

There are any number of non-famous producers and engineers who could do that for Prince, but it will never happen. It's funny but Purple Rain actually captured the problem really well. In that film Wendy & Lisa had some good ideas to offer but Prince was too paranoid and controlling to let his guard down. In the film of course he overcame this problem and they all lived happily ever after. In real life though he has never gotten past this personality flaw. And his music is much poorer for it.

biggest idiocy of all time. Are you seriously sayin' that Prince stopped releasing truly great music after PR? ...Parade, SOTT, Black Album, Lovesexy, half of D&P, Lovesymbol, Gold Experience... and don't forget that DM, C, and 1999 were basically SOLO albums.

seems that you're one of those orgers who thinks that PR was based on Prince's reality...HA! my God, man, face it: PR and the Kid character were loosely, very loosely based on Prince's real life; in tha movie, Prince NEEDED Wendy & Lisa to write Purple Rain, but in real life is basically A PRINCE SONG partially co-written with Wendy&Lisa. go figure

This post is a classic example of someone mouthing off about something they haven't understood. Of course Prince made great music after PR, because he was a genius at the top of his game so that self-reliance worked for him. But he's not at the top of his game anymore so that same approach is now working against him. Understood?

As for PR, Albert Magnoli definitely identified some key traits of Prince's in that movie and put them in the script. There is no doubt about that.

midnightmover said:

JoeTyler said:

biggest idiocy of all time. Are you seriously sayin' that Prince stopped releasing truly great music after PR? ...Parade, SOTT, Black Album, Lovesexy, half of D&P, Lovesymbol, Gold Experience... and don't forget that DM, C, and 1999 were basically SOLO albums.

seems that you're one of those orgers who thinks that PR was based on Prince's reality...HA! my God, man, face it: PR and the Kid character were loosely, very loosely based on Prince's real life; in tha movie, Prince NEEDED Wendy & Lisa to write Purple Rain, but in real life is basically A PRINCE SONG partially co-written with Wendy&Lisa. go figure

This post is a classic example of someone mouthing off about something they haven't understood. Of course Prince made great music after PR, because he was a genius at the top of his game so that self-reliance worked for him. But he's not at the top of his game anymore so that same approach is now working against him. Understood?

As for PR, Albert Magnoli definitely identified some key traits of Prince's in that movie and put them in the script. There is no doubt about that.

or maybe your post was poorly constructed: "In real life though he has NEVER gotten past this personality flaw. And his music is much poorer for it."

NEVER? that's why he collaborated with Madhouse, Sheila E, was keen on the idea of a crossover experiment with Warners/Tim Burton for Batman, allowed an outside (sort of) rapper in his own NPG band, released a neo-funk masterpiece with the NPG (Exodus), etc.

"much poorer, so that same approach is NOW working against him".? I think you mean the 1996-99 debacle, 13 years after PR. Make up your mind, are you talking about post-84 or the 00s decade???

if you meant the 00s ("NOW")... really? much poorer? after TRC, the 04-06 SOLO comeback, the Superbowl and Lotus? As I said, Prince's 00s music is not poor, is just decent compared to the stuff he released during the 80-95 years...

It seems that some orgers truly WANTED to kill off Prince's career after 20Ten, which was basically a good album poorly distributed.

now, keep dreaming about that Rick Rubin-produced album that WILL never happen, lol

TrevorAyer said:

ok hold on those 3 prequels sucked flat out don't fool yourself into thinking that when you think they suck they don't just because you weren't little anymore when they came out

there are millions of reasons they suck .. thats like saying the tony m era is as good as the wendy and lisa era .. or like saying prince did anything relevant after wb .. which he didn't

lucas butchered the legacy with those prequels .. its not just jar jar .. yeah maybe hammil wasn't the greatest actor ever but he was way way way better than EVERYONE in the prequels .. even nat portman was only fun to look at .. the acting was no treat .. the cgi is god awful too .. sure its fun at first but then you notice how bad it is ..

This is your opinion not a shared world view. Basically, you got a bunch of 30 or 40 somethings on this website who are (most likely) gravitate towards the original Star Wars trilogy. Some with extreme opinions for them/against the prequels.

As I have pointed out before, the prequels were box office smashes. They broke all kinds of box office records and were commercial successes in every sense of the word. So what if they weren't universally loved by critics? Only the 1st Star Wars film was...and I can find a few negative reviews of that film too. Empire and Jedi received mixed reviews when upon their release too.

As far as the special effects. Give it up. The prequels had cutting edge special effects, and ushered in the digital era of film. Maligned as he may be, Jar Jar Binks is the first fully digital character in film. Attack of the Clones is one of the, if not the first, major film to be filmed 100% digitally. There are many things you can rip (any) Star Wars film for, poor special effects is not one of them. If a person prefers old school practical effects to digital...that's fine. I do too sometimes. However, it's old fashioned and nostalgic.

its not old fashioned or nostalgic .. i like plenty of new movies that don't have cgi but do have good acting .. strait up most star wars fans can practically recite the dialog to empire word for word .. NO ONE can do that with the prequels because there is NO dialog .. its rubbish

harrison, fisher, alec, hell even c3po was a good if not great actor

and the acting was really good in those movies .. well not the ewoks .. but for the most part .. billy dee williams .. compare that to portman (outstanding actress) and jackson in the preqels .. in both cases they are horrible when they should have been great

as for box office

coca cola is a box office smash .. that doesn't mean it doesn't rot your teeth, destroy your immune system, give you diabetes and make u fat and give you a heart attack

so wtf does box office have to do with the quality of a movie .. nothing

shit sells all the time ..

and cgi does not work .. end of story .. they cant blend it good enough its like shelby yelping get up a all over classic prince .. it just ruins it

starwars has far more obsessives than prince or any other phenonmenon .. giving jesus christ a good run for his money .. and you don't think that affects the box office .. people wanting more star wars does not make a movie labeled star wars a good movie .. just like people wanting more good prince does not make his new record good .. people buy it to hear it to search for that one good song or idea .. they see the movie to find some plot detail or see how cool jango looks .. but its not nostalgic its having taste ... i guarantee that NOONE who grew up "loving" the prequels will love them when they do finally grow up .. certainly not the way people love the original trilogy .. its just not good and people will out grow the MASSIVE marketing campaign ... even prince had a hit with that slab of shit musicology with enough press and brand name marketing on board ..

even lucas made money off of indy 4 ... i don't follow prince the business man .. who cares what he sells who cares what lucas sells .. i only want good art and neither deliver any more and both try to ruin what was good about their past work ... yeah we need renato jazzin up prince .. yeah we need lil cartoon crap all over the original trilogy .. yeah lotus is as good as sign .. yeah they both still got "it" .. yeah bull sheeet maaaan ..

prince needs people he can collaborate with .. he used to all the time .. now he doesn't he just tells them what to do .. thats why its so bad and boring .. lucas is unchallenged as well .. just throwing shit on the screen the way prince throws raps on songs .. ugh

[Edited 5/16/12 9:24am]