alexnvrmnd777 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

i love the majority of ur list of songs but it's interesting not one song was from 20ten

Yeah, and that's the album (along with "MPLSound") that was designed to sound like he did back in the day, like people are saying O7ven are sounding like. The best songs on "Condensate" kill at least a third of this list anyway. Prince has just spread himself waaaay too thin over the years, releasing an album almost every year. A couple of cool songs on each, and the rest range from filler to God-awful! He almost seems to think that everything he records should get a full release. Nopers.

Well I disagree and just have a different perspective. I enjoy the hell out of Condensate and will wait until their future releases before I trash everything Prince has done in the past 20 years like some people are doing. I'm glad I'm one of those who can enjoy many of Prince's recent release and can also enjoy what some of the associated artist has to offer (well only the E. Family, Jesse Johnson, and O7 ...the rest nah) It just makes the Purple ride all the more better than being unsatisfied and dissapointed for 20 years and count. yikes.

[Edited 10/26/11 10:00am]

Ok, on my way to cop this. Will digest it and give feed back from first listen to growers. But let me clarify from the OP. The idea of "vs" was more in the vein of this release will prompt P to respond and put out something in the states and stir up some buzz in the same circles. I wasn't alluding to their respective bodies of work. Cause as has been state that is NO comparison at all.

Alxnrvmnd you REALLY believe that in TWO decades Prince doesn't have 14 tracks that are equal or better than the best stuff on Condensate? REALLY?! I still haven't heard it but from a ballad stanpoint alone, i'm hard pressed to believe there's anything as good as SHOE, Better With Time, Future Soul Song or Sea of Everything on it (and that's just on arrangement and vocals, not getting into lyrical content; as I know many HATE the "spiritual Prince" so they'll trash FSS, but I digress)

The album is perfect Nuff Said!

datdude said:

Ok, on my way to cop this. Will digest it and give feed back from first listen to growers. But let me clarify from the OP. The idea of "vs" was more in the vein of this release will prompt P to respond and put out something in the states and stir up some buzz in the same circles. I wasn't alluding to their respective bodies of work. Cause as has been state that is NO comparison at all.

Alxnrvmnd you REALLY believe that in TWO decades Prince doesn't have 14 tracks that are equal or better than the best stuff on Condensate? REALLY?! I still haven't heard it but from a ballad stanpoint alone, i'm hard pressed to believe there's anything as good as SHOE, Better With Time, Future Soul Song or Sea of Everything on it (and that's just on arrangement and vocals, not getting into lyrical content; as I know many HATE the "spiritual Prince" so they'll trash FSS, but I digress)

For the ballads you mentioned, only SHOE and FSS are "decent". The ballads on Condensate aren't bad AT ALL!!! GoHomeToYoMan, Faithful and Lifestyle are all worthy challengers, IMO. Do they beat the two you mentioned (FSS and SHOE)? Not sure about that. And besides, I said Condensate would beat about a third of that list of songs.

Please don't get me wrong y'all. I shit on A LOT of Prince most recent output, but he does still have some decent songs on them altogether. It's just the majority of them are just "there" and don't move me one bit. It's as if he's on "autopilot", to steal someone's description. And to me, O7ven definitely didn't sound like they were in a rut and being on autopilot with this album.

Yeah, me and my man Slim Kid J were talkin' about how Prince is gonna have to make a strong showin' with his next album or performance. The competition between The Time bka The Original 7ven may have thrown down the FUNK / POP guantlet. The question is, will Prince pick it up and Strike Back. I would hope he would, he started The Time, he's the brain-child behind their sound and their look.

It's About Time !!!

What up Prince ??? You got some MPLSoUND to knock my boyz off their ladder ??? ... LoL

So, i JUST copped Condensate today and i'm only halfway through it but so far.... I must say its a bit overrated. best track is If I Was Yo Man. title track and Strawberry Lake are bad, esp. SL, Trendin is oKAY. Wow, hope it gets better

datdude said:

So, i JUST copped Condensate today and i'm only halfway through it but so far.... I must say its a bit overrated. best track is If I Was Yo Man. title track and Strawberry Lake are bad, esp. SL, Trendin is oKAY. Wow, hope it gets better

I choked on my laughter on it on my intiial listen. Give it a few and youll hear how good it actually is. Thats not to say there still are some reallll goofy/corny parts, like Strawberry Lake fas mentioned for instance

I always thought those parts of The Time were Prince penned in music and theme .

There is no competition.Prince created the whole sound himself.All he has to do is compete against himself & create the funk he gave birth to in the first place.Which I know he can.Prince next album will leave O7ven in the dust....

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

There is no competition.Prince created the whole sound himself.All he has to do is compete against himself & create the funk he gave birth to in the first place.Which I know he can.Prince next album will leave O7ven in the dust....

Prince should be proud of what the fellas produced.

And even though he created the perosna and songs initially, thwere IS a helathy competition.

Ive read stories how Jam/Prince spoke on Prince driving up to their place blasting Emancipation out his speakers for them to hear what he crated etc.

Prince used to come back and tell jesse how many screams he got and how he better get his do' lookin tighter than his etc.

I agre it is weird as Prince was the Oz of it all..but still, they took his workings and ran with them in some aspects, creating this healthy diffeence and friendly competition.

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

So, you not buying or believing that Prince was using sex as a metaphor to say something deeper about the human condition makes me “disingenuous,” i.e. dishonest, insincere, or untruthful. We can agree to disagree, but how am I or my views “disingenuous”? Here is all that I can say. Based on what I’ve studied about poetic devices and what other writers have had to say about poetic devices, it is very plausible that Prince uses sex as a way to make commentary about deeper emotional and psychological issues. However, I provided just as many songs that make socio-political statements that have nothing to do with sex, and you never attempted to debunk those. And, I will add to those, “Starfish and Coffee,” “Mountains,” “Christopher Tracy’s Parade,” the entire Lovesexy album (and if you don’t see that as the climax of his use of sex to make socio-political commentary about human longing and the struggle to evolve to a higher being then we are viewing the world with extremely different eyes), most of the songs on Graffiti Bridge, and so many more, proving that Prince has written just as many, if not more, songs that make socio-political commentary than those that merely celebrate sexual pleasure. Now whether we agree with his message or if you think that his mastery of language/lyrical flow is not well-crafted can be debated, but there can be no denying that Prince has always been a songwriter who made socio-political commentary. The problem for him has been that his use of sensationalism has often overshadowed the message (“You wouldn’t have drank my coffee if I hadn’t use cream”), especially in a world when most don’t won’t to work that diligently to understand the messages. So, no, I have not proven your point because my point, with the use of examples of actual songs, is that Prince’s discussion of sex is a metaphor of something deeper.

*

Now, as an aside, I like the way that Javi presented a disagreement in a more objective manner when stating: “I think some of the reviewers of Prince lyrics who have said that sex for Prince is a metaphor to discuss other subjects sometimes read too much in his lyrics. He certainly says more than sex, and his lyrics can make us think and discuss, but trying to sell Prince as a philosopher almost bigger than Stevie Wonder or Baudelaire is exaggerated, in my opinion.” My only response is that sometimes in the case of historical figures, such as Baudelaire and even Shakespeare, we forget that they were often criticized as negatively as someone like Prince today. In fact, many of the same critiques of Prince for being self-indulgent, eccentric, egotistical, insane, batshit crazy, overwhelming idiosyncratic, or obtuse are all the same things for which Baudelaire were criticized. However, just because some scholars have decided that Baudelaire belongs in the academy we ignore those critiques of Baudelaire or attribute them to his genius. Shakespeare’s plays were performed next to sex houses and meant to appeal to the people who patronized those houses. And, like anyone trying to earn a living, Shakespeare used sex and violence to attract an audience while slipping a deeper message underneath the sensationalism. Yet, now, he is, for many, the standard of English literature. Faulkner was out of print until one scholar made it his mission to tell the world about the genius of Faulkner. Now it is almost impossible to earn an English degree in America without some class that addresses the work of Faulkner. I am not saying that Prince deserves to be studied in the academy, but it is clear to me that Prince understands the history of poetic (sound and language) device and uses them in the same way as Wonder and Baudelaire to articulate his message. Now, we can debate whether his execution is to the level or mastery of theirs, but his use of poetic device and his understanding of the history of a particular image of symbol are clear in how he uses them to communicate his messages or create the myth that he desires to create. Prince’s lyrics (imagery) at their best seem to be as smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant as Wonder and Baudelaire even if they have a much larger catalogue of smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant lyrics.

*

I have enjoyed Prince’s music and message over the past fifteen to twenty years. And I will admit that calling you a “former fan” may have been a bit harsh, but I continue to state that I don’t understand why so many people who have not been moved or entertained by Prince in the last (add your own number) years continue to frequent a “fan” site to say that they hate his work? It has been explained to me that this site is about more than just Prince? I don’t understand that when it’s called “Prince.org,” but, okay, I can accept that as a plausible reason why so many return. All I know is that if an artist had not moved me in the past ten to fifteen years, I don’t know how I could still be a “fan” of his or regularly visit a site designed to study and celebrate his art. So, while we disagree on what it means to be a “fan”, I have no right to call you a “former fan” just because I don’t understand your definition of “fan”. And, you can feel free to continue to call me a “cult-like worshiper,” simply because I still enjoy his music.

*

As for my views on race, the discussion was not about my views. Though I do not post on this site as much as others, most people who see “1725topp” know that I am a black nationalist, know that I have been a community organizer for the past twenty years, and know that I think that integration, while a noble ideology, can never allow African Americans to achieve self-love and sovereignty (sovereign institutions) like black nationalism can. But, again, we were discussing Prince’s views as manifested in his lyrics. I did not know that you needed to know my views, but since you have called me disingenuous I now realize that everything about me is called into question because I disagree with your assessment of Prince’s lyrical meaning and depth. As for Prince’s addressing of race, songs like “Avalanche,” “We March,” “Uncle Sam,” “You Will Be Moved,” “Paris 1798430,” the end of “Push,” “Sacrifice of Victor,” and many more are truthful, smart, and creative. I don’t see how they are race-baiting, and I still do not understand why so many people were angered or offended by The Rainbow Children. I’m not saying they don’t have the right to be angered or offended, but I still don’t understand the points or logic used by many to justify their anger or offence so I just agree to disagree with them.

*

I love Verbal Penetration, but even as a black nationalist I am not interested in Jesse’s notion of the rise of the Moorish nation. Yet, I don’t think that Jesse is being disingenuous because I disagree with him. Just because Jesse is black does not mean that I think that Jesse should feel the same way about racism as I do. Now, let me be clear. I do desire for African American artists to address racism, but I do not expect all of us to address it in the same manner because I understand the history of African people in America, especially that we were a three tiered people once there were field slaves, house slaves, and free blacks, creating multiple ideologies and reactions to racism, which is how we get Dubois and Washington or King and X. So, yes, I love Verbal Penetration and the fact that Jesse makes some very valid and insightful points about racism, but I also hit the skip button when he begins discussing the rise of the Moorish nation. Furthermore, I think the whole rant about Pluto is silly, but it is to such a funky beat that I listen to it. Now, do I think that either you or Jesse is disingenuous because I find the song about Pluto silly? No, because, unlike you seem to think, I don’t think that you have to address the race issue or issues of racism or any issue just like I would for me to consider you “real” or “authentic.”

*

So, you are a black man. So what? I never connected your views to your race. And, my stating that Prince is black was to make the point that as a black man he would discuss black issues. The question is, “Who are you to say that Prince has or is being inauthentic in his views,” which is what you are saying when you state that he is “race baiting.” Then you say that people like “2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway” are more “real”, i.e. authentic in their views. And, this is based on what, especially as it relates to 2pac and Ice Cube? In fact with that statement, you are the one who is being myopic. I will not call you disingenuous like you called me because to be disingenuous is to be dishonest or insincere, and I am not going to assume anything about you because I don’t know your heart. But this is the problem that I have always had with hip hop and its “keeping it real” mantra. I’m a black man from the South. How can anybody from Brooklyn or LA tell me how to “keep it real”? Thus, while most African Americans suffer some form of racial injustice, I realize that one’s reaction to it will be as individual or as diverse as African people are. So just because Prince did not address racism when or how you wanted him to address it does not make his addressing of it any less “real” than 2pac or Ice Cube, especially when we know that Ice Cube now makes millions from doing the same types of things for which he attacked Hammer for doing so how “real” is yo’ boy Ice Cube? Was Ice Cube “real” when he was dissin’ Hammer for being mainstream, or is he “real” now that he makes money using the same type of philosophy as Hammer? Don’t get me wrong. I’m clear that Ice Cube could kick my ass, but the point is that people change their attitudes and ideologies all the time. Was MLK being disingenuous when questioned the effectiveness of integration when he stated “I think that I have integrated my people into a burning house”? Was he being disingenuous when he stated that “often black people are integrated out of power rather than into power”? In both cases he seems to be questioning his lifelong dedication to integration, and based on your statement that would make him disingenuous or not “real”. Additionally, I will argue, as I have many times on this site, that Prince was actually being more disingenuous in his early days because he chose Bobby Z because he was white and not just because he was a good/great drummer. This is no knock on Bobby Z, but Prince seems to have been more calculating in his multicultural, paisley park world ideology than he is now in wanting to address issues about injustice that he and others have suffered due to being black. In truth, most black people don’t care about racism or discrimination until it is them who are denied the job or opportunity. Then, they want to seek assistance from organizations or community organizers. So, yes, Prince began to question late in life whether or not he was being treated a certain way because he was black. Again, race was not that type of issue to him until he was forced to consider it. And, I’m not saying that Warner Bros. treated him badly or that if they did treat him badly it was because of race. I’m saying that Prince’s entrance or perceived late arrival into the discourse of racial discrimination suffered by African Americans is not that different than most. For most people, problems must be personal before they get involved. So just because you do not like Prince’s current ideology and stance on racial issues does not mean that he is not being “real” or true to his heart or “race-baiting”.

*

When I was in high school and Around the World in a Day was released, I realized that this dude was following his own muse/way, and that there was a great possibility that he would release music that I would not like or make a statement with which I would not agree. Yet, simultaneously, that was another element that made me a fan of his. People change how they view the world. In high school most of the black students called me “white boy lover” because I listened to rock-n-roll. Yet, I’ve had people on this site call me a racist and, now, a race-baiter. In the same vein, I know people who were once black nationalist who are now integrationist. I don’t think they were being disingenuous then or now. The one consistent element about Prince is that he is a seeker or searcher. That is the personality of some people. With that understanding, all I have ever wanted from Prince is music that makes me think, feel, and dance, and for thirty-one years (since 1980) he has yet to disappoint me. I can’t speak for how or why he has disappointed others, but I am not disingenuous in how I feel about his work, and with my best guest, which is all most of us have, I don’t think that he is disingenuous either, but, again, we can agree to disagree as we are clearly doing.

Just needed to tell you that this is an incredible post. Well done.

The album is quite okay, but I won't talk about my opinion on it, because it's no use.

Instead I'll ask the people who love it for being a simple, funky, head-bobbing party album whether they love Newpower Soul too. Because, in fact, they're quite similar, but NPS has a couple of really, really good, deep songs too, which Condensate doesn't.

So, either you take both or your opinion is not pure!

Dave1992 said:

The album is quite okay, but I won't talk about my opinion on it, because it's no use.

Instead I'll ask the people who love it for being a simple, funky, head-bobbing party album whether they love Newpower Soul too. Because, in fact, they're quite similar, but NPS has a couple of really, really good, deep songs too, which Condensate doesn't.

So, either you take both or your opinion is not pure!

That's actually a pretty good comparison, and yeah, I do love NPS!

Dave1992 said:

The album is quite okay, but I won't talk about my opinion on it, because it's no use.

Instead I'll ask the people who love it for being a simple, funky, head-bobbing party album whether they love Newpower Soul too. Because, in fact, they're quite similar, but NPS has a couple of really, really good, deep songs too, which Condensate doesn't.

So, either you take both or your opinion is not pure!

NPS has some songs on it that are good but as a cohesive effort it doesn't flow quite as well as condensate imo. NPS 2 me is the album i call "rehash" cause there are riffs that have been used b4 in his music like at the end of when u love somebody that guitar rift is taking straight from mayte's ain't no place like u, and i like funky music includes the original keyboard lick from feel u up. condensate is pure funk 2 me all the way through and sounding like a timeless effort

I think condensate is a good album. I can't tell you the last time I got up and went to a store to buy a cd. As a musician, it's just good to hear musicians (particularly guitar) featured prominently in new r&b/pop music. Make no mistake, they were definitely trying to create a pop album. Although they're still heavily based in minneapolis funk, their choice of drum patches, synth textures and songs like "trendin and hey yo" show they wanted to make it appealing to people outside of the Prince universe. That's why it's a little unfair to compare o7 to prince's current output. There are a few flaws on condensate (I want more live drums lol, and a better mix on some songs) but it's a very cohesive album. Some of the songs are silly lyrically, but they never claimed to be anything other that a fun party band. So I take it in the spirit it was presented.

On a side note The time "studio wise" is Prince (pretty much everything)

Morris Day -Lead vocals

honarable mention to Jesse on guitars on some of the ice cream castle songs

O7 is Keys-Jimmy Jam/Monte Moir

Bass-Terry Lewis(also co-leads)

Guitar-Jesse Johnson

Jellybean Johnson-Drums/Programming

Morris Day-Lead vocals

So from that standpoint recording wise, they are different

[Edited 12/18/11 7:02am]

kenkamken said:

Wow, 1725topp is ready to write his dissertation on Prince. I'm all for it. If I'm on here, I'm usually procrastinating from writing my thesis on language teaching. Typing from my phone usually necessitates my posts be short, so I appreciate someone putting thought in what they say. I have a long story about searching in vain at Walmat for O7 that I won't go in to, I guess I'll buy it on iTunes instead. I only went to Walmart hoping to get the dvd, but oh well. Oh, and maybe Extralovable is his first return volley, hopefully we will hear more soon. [Edited 12/17/11 12:11pm]

Do you have Best buy where you live? I know they have an exclusive deal with them, so it may be a little easier to find there.