NouveauDance said:

NeonCraxx said:

Beginning Enlessly.

Tell me otherwise.

Beginning Enlessly?.... Ewwwwwwwwww!

......yeah you ARE sick.

kangafunk said:

1725topp said:

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

This just may be the best post I've read on this forum.

Pretty DAMN close for me!

YEEESSSSSSS

SoulAlive said:

Song of the day: "Cadillac" by the Original 7Ven

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

Prince music isn't deep. At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX. Then it became crying-over-disgruntled-gold-diggers, music-to-listen-to-while-reading-his-watchtower, and race-baiting-fight-the-hollywood-lawyers mantras. Lately it's basically fcuk-the-internet tracks and castrated-vault-material from his heydey. Look..

I believe Prince, is a superior, but very selfish artist, and that's why so many of his projects are unlistenable to the common music lover. His stuff get's incredibly idiosyncratic, and at at certain point, commercial music is meant to be enjoyed by the listener/ end-user. So in that sense if you can't enjoy what Prince is doing, then his strength has become a weakness and as such he becomes WORST than everyone else, not BETTER.

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

Thank u................u saved me the trouble.

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

Prince music isn't deep. At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX. Then it became crying-over-disgruntled-gold-diggers, music-to-listen-to-while-reading-his-watchtower, and race-baiting-fight-the-hollywood-lawyers mantras. Lately it's basically fcuk-the-internet tracks and castrated-vault-material from his heydey. Look..

I believe Prince, is a superior, but very selfish artist, and that's why so many of his projects are unlistenable to the common music lover. His stuff get's incredibly idiosyncratic, and at at certain point, commercial music is meant to be enjoyed by the listener/ end-user. So in that sense if you can't enjoy what Prince is doing, then his strength has become a weakness and as such he becomes WORST than everyone else, not BETTER.

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

Prince music isn't deep. At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX. Then it became crying-over-disgruntled-gold-diggers, music-to-listen-to-while-reading-his-watchtower, and race-baiting-fight-the-hollywood-lawyers mantras. Lately it's basically fcuk-the-internet tracks and castrated-vault-material from his heydey. Look..

I believe Prince, is a superior, but very selfish artist, and that's why so many of his projects are unlistenable to the common music lover. His stuff get's incredibly idiosyncratic, and at at certain point, commercial music is meant to be enjoyed by the listener/ end-user. So in that sense if you can't enjoy what Prince is doing, then his strength has become a weakness and as such he becomes WORST than everyone else, not BETTER.

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

May I say you deserve a standing ovation. Love your posts.

1725 score:10

funkster: 3

funksterr said:

1725topp said:

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

Can you give examples of how you think he race baits and how does one create art from a 'black perspective' musically? If one writes a song referencing socio-economic/political situations within the black community, do you see that as race-baiting or a way of the musician/artist raising society's conscious or awareness of situations affecting a specific community, by the attitudes of a larger society? A song like "Dreamer" is a good example of raising awarness, about race still being an issue in this society, regardless of MLK jr's fight and dream of a society embracing one another's differences, and treating one another as equals, yet in 2011, many don't, so we still have a long way to go with that. He also raises the fact that situations like racial-profiling is still an ongoing issue within this society. That's not race-baiting, that's being honest about a societal issue that still exists. But within the lyrics and at the end of the song, he made it clear that he won't give up on Martin's dream. This particular song has led to discussions among fans.

Now Gil Scott Heron, Curtis Mayfield, and others like Harry Belafonte and Stevie Wonder all did the same with many of their songs. I recall some of these artists did not 'hide' or 'sugarcoat' the socio-political, economic or race issues they sang about at some of the most turbulent times in American history.

So can you please expound on what you mean, when you stated that "Jesse Johnson" expressed it musically in an uplifting way, compared to how Prince does? Thanks in advance for your input.

Sidenote: This is why I would find it hard to compare the music of the now Original7 to Prince's entire music catalogue, when the O7 just started out with their own music, outside of Prince's. Now if you're tallking about like what orger "Babynoz" and others are saying would be fun, with O7 and Prince having a 'battle of the bands' sort of thing, then I see that as something for fun and enjoyment for the fans.

[Edited 10/21/11 8:31am]

funksterr said:

1725topp said:

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

Just because you "don't buy it" doesn't mean its not there. Only a very superficial reading of Prince's work would lead one to believe it was all about sex. Not only do you sell Prince short but you sell yourself short by illustrating that you have not bothered to actually comtemplate what Prince is saying beyond the obvious. I think what drew alot of us to Prince was that he intertwined sex with the spirit and about everything else. Almost every reviewer of Prince's work has touched on this fact. How have you missed it?

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

Prince music isn't deep. At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX. Then it became crying-over-disgruntled-gold-diggers, music-to-listen-to-while-reading-his-watchtower, and race-baiting-fight-the-hollywood-lawyers mantras. Lately it's basically fcuk-the-internet tracks and castrated-vault-material from his heydey. Look..

I believe Prince, is a superior, but very selfish artist, and that's why so many of his projects are unlistenable to the common music lover. His stuff get's incredibly idiosyncratic, and at at certain point, commercial music is meant to be enjoyed by the listener/ end-user. So in that sense if you can't enjoy what Prince is doing, then his strength has become a weakness and as such he becomes WORST than everyone else, not BETTER.

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

I agree specially with what you say about Colonized Mind.

The rest of the post is very interesting. But I think some of the reviewers of Prince lyrics who have said that sex for Prince is a metaphor to discuss other subjects sometimes read too much in his lyrics. He certainly says more than sex, and his lyrics can make us think and discuss, but trying to sell Prince as a philosopher almost bigger than Stevie Wonder or Baudelaire is exaggerated, in my opinion. I'm thinking about The Lyrics Of Prince, whose view is akin to yours.

[Edited 10/21/11 10:10am]

2elijah said:

funksterr said:

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

Can you give examples of how you think he race baits and how does one create art from a 'black perspective' musically? If one writes a song referencing socio-economic/political situations within the black community, do you see that as race-baiting or a way of the musician/artist raising society's conscious or awareness of situations affecting a specific community, by the attitudes of a larger society? For example, a song like "Dreamer" is a good example of raising awarness, about race still being an issue in this society, regardless of MLK jr's fight and dream of a society embracing one another's differences, and treating one another as equals, yet in 2011 we still have a long way to go. As he raises the fact that situations like racial-profiling is still an issue within this society, even from the days of his own father. That's not race-baiting, that's being honest about a societal issue that still exists. But within the lyrics and at the end of the song, he made it clear that he won't give up on Martin's dream.

Now Gil Scott Heron, Curtis Mayfield, and others like Harry Belafonte and Stevie Wonder all did the same with many of their songs. I recall some of these artists did not 'hide' or 'sugarcoat' the socio-political, economic or race issues they sang about at some of the most turbulent times in American history.

So can you please expound on what you mean, compared to how you state "Jesse Johnson" expressed it...musically, compared to how Prince does? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Edited 10/21/11 8:14am]

Wow. You are asking some questions that are so deep, I feel like I should do some research before answering, but hey I'll do my best. To sum it up: Prince played the race card in his legal fight with WB. Suddenly he wants to fight the power. But it was his personal contract issue that served no purpose to the black community as a whole. He wasn't being victimized by race. In fact, the black community was probably more down on Prince's music at that point than any other group was. But he tried to use his ethnicity, to shame and intimidate WB into giving him more favorable terms.

I have no issue with artists that deal with race in music in general when they are being real. 2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway all have credibility when their lyrics touch on race. Prince, and it may just be the mentality of the man, the Man-Brat side of him that held up his fingers on Dick Clark to answer questions, but he says things, and then he's like "I didn't say nothing." He throws a rock, and then he hides his hand. He slides little racial jabs into his songs. And then kind of runs from it and for me it's a turn off.

I would respectfully disagree with you about Dreamer. This track references chemical sprays, someone being born on a slave plantation, but somehow now knowing they were different until MLK was killed? Slavery ended in 1865. MLK was shot over 100 years later. The USA described as a "loving society"? That's some very NOT REAL type of talk. He's got an eye open for "these devils"? ehh... I can't get into hate and name calling. Sounds like he's playing around with those issues, trying to sound like he has a message, when in fact he's just fueled by bitterness towards his contract situations.

tricky99 said:

Just because you "don't buy it" doesn't mean its not there. Only a very superficial reading of Prince's work would lead one to believe it was all about sex. Not only do you sell Prince short but you sell yourself short by illustrating that you have not bothered to actually comtemplate what Prince is saying beyond the obvious. I think what drew alot of us to Prince was that he intertwined sex with the spirit and about everything else. Almost every reviewer of Prince's work has touched on this fact. How have you missed it?

C'mon guys. What is the deeper meaning of "Soft and Wet"? Or "Darling Nikki"? Or "Head"? The original point of what I wrote is that Prince is not THAT deep. Maybe at times, but overall there is no big difference. Prince can, and should make it a point to write some more enjoyable music. He's pretty much btched and moaned and pouted himself out of a career. Y'all reminding me of the GOOD TIMES episode when JJ painted a picture of Ned The Wino and everybody kept calling it BLACK JESUS!

[Edited 10/21/11 9:48am]

funksterr said:

tricky99 said:

Just because you "don't buy it" doesn't mean its not there. Only a very superficial reading of Prince's work would lead one to believe it was all about sex. Not only do you sell Prince short but you sell yourself short by illustrating that you have not bothered to actually comtemplate what Prince is saying beyond the obvious. I think what drew alot of us to Prince was that he intertwined sex with the spirit and about everything else. Almost every reviewer of Prince's work has touched on this fact. How have you missed it?

C'mon guys. What is the deeper meaning of "Soft and Wet"? Or "Darling Nikki"? Or "Head"? The original point of what I wrote is that Prince is not THAT deep. Maybe at times, but overall there is no big difference. Prince can, and should make it a point to write some more enjoyable music. He's pretty much btched and moaned and pouted himself out of a career.

Ok.......let pretend what u say is true.

Why are u HERE?

Graycap23 said:

funksterr said:

C'mon guys. What is the deeper meaning of "Soft and Wet"? Or "Darling Nikki"? Or "Head"? The original point of what I wrote is that Prince is not THAT deep. Maybe at times, but overall there is no big difference. Prince can, and should make it a point to write some more enjoyable music. He's pretty much btched and moaned and pouted himself out of a career.

Ok.......let pretend what u say is true.

Why are u HERE?

I am a music fan, a Prince fan too. I believe he's going to get his act together after some more of his legal situations resolve themselves and we will probably get stronger music from him at that point. But until then don't expect me to act like I'm impressed with the music, when really I'm disappointed with it.

funksterr said:

Graycap23 said:

Ok.......let pretend what u say is true.

Why are u HERE?

I am a music fan, a Prince fan too. I believe he's going to get his act together after some more of his legal situations resolve themselves and we will probably get stronger music from him at that point. But until then don't expect me to act like I'm impressed with the music, when really I'm disappointed with it.

I dig.

funksterr said:

tricky99 said:

Just because you "don't buy it" doesn't mean its not there. Only a very superficial reading of Prince's work would lead one to believe it was all about sex. Not only do you sell Prince short but you sell yourself short by illustrating that you have not bothered to actually comtemplate what Prince is saying beyond the obvious. I think what drew alot of us to Prince was that he intertwined sex with the spirit and about everything else. Almost every reviewer of Prince's work has touched on this fact. How have you missed it?

C'mon guys. What is the deeper meaning of "Soft and Wet"? Or "Darling Nikki"? Or "Head"? The original point of what I wrote is that Prince is not THAT deep. Maybe at times, but overall there is no big difference. Prince can, and should make it a point to write some more enjoyable music. He's pretty much btched and moaned and pouted himself out of a career. Y'all reminding me of the GOOD TIMES episode when JJ painted a picture of Ned The Wino and everybody kept calling it BLACK JESUS!

[Edited 10/21/11 9:48am]

Oh boy lol. u said prince was mainly about sex. No one ever said prince never did a sex song. U are being completely rediculous. Prince has literally written hundreds of songs not about sex. Seems to me Prince still has a career after 33 years of music. I don't even understand what u could mean by "out of a career". That's so incredibly silly.

funksterr said:

2elijah said:

Can you give examples of how you think he race baits and how does one create art from a 'black perspective' musically? If one writes a song referencing socio-economic/political situations within the black community, do you see that as race-baiting or a way of the musician/artist raising society's conscious or awareness of situations affecting a specific community, by the attitudes of a larger society? For example, a song like "Dreamer" is a good example of raising awarness, about race still being an issue in this society, regardless of MLK jr's fight and dream of a society embracing one another's differences, and treating one another as equals, yet in 2011 we still have a long way to go. As he raises the fact that situations like racial-profiling is still an issue within this society, even from the days of his own father. That's not race-baiting, that's being honest about a societal issue that still exists. But within the lyrics and at the end of the song, he made it clear that he won't give up on Martin's dream.

Now Gil Scott Heron, Curtis Mayfield, and others like Harry Belafonte and Stevie Wonder all did the same with many of their songs. I recall some of these artists did not 'hide' or 'sugarcoat' the socio-political, economic or race issues they sang about at some of the most turbulent times in American history.

So can you please expound on what you mean, compared to how you state "Jesse Johnson" expressed it...musically, compared to how Prince does? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Edited 10/21/11 8:14am]

Wow. You are asking some questions that are so deep, I feel like I should do some research before answering, but hey I'll do my best. To sum it up: Prince played the race card in his legal fight with WB. Suddenly he wants to fight the power. But it was his personal contract issue that served no purpose to the black community as a whole. He wasn't being victimized by race. In fact, the black community was probably more down on Prince's music at that point than any other group was. But he tried to use his ethnicity, to shame and intimidate WB into giving him more favorable terms.

I have no issue with artists that deal with race in music in general when they are being real. 2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway all have credibility when their lyrics touch on race. Prince, and it may just be the mentality of the man, the Man-Brat side of him that held up his fingers on Dick Clark to answer questions, but he says things, and then he's like "I didn't say nothing." He throws a rock, and then he hides his hand. He slides little racial jabs into his songs. And then kind of runs from it and for me it's a turn off.

I would respectfully disagree with you about Dreamer. This track references chemical sprays, someone being born on a slave plantation, but somehow now knowing they were different until MLK was killed? Slavery ended in 1865. MLK was shot over 100 years later. The USA described as a "loving society"? That's some very NOT REAL type of talk. He's got an eye open for "these devils"? ehh... I can't get into hate and name calling. Sounds like he's playing around with those issues, trying to sound like he has a message, when in fact he's just fueled by bitterness towards his contract situations.

Prince was a child when MLK was killed. I would assume that made a great impression on him. At this point in his career he has no reason to say anything he doesn't want to say on record. There are no record companies to control him. So what's the difference from having a message and "trying to sound like he has a message". U just don't like the message that's no reason to doubt the authenic feelings he has.

U simply are more comfortable with Prince throwing out party jams and sex songs. Don't confuse your own limitations with him.

funksterr said:

2elijah said:

Can you give examples of how you think he race baits and how does one create art from a 'black perspective' musically? If one writes a song referencing socio-economic/political situations within the black community, do you see that as race-baiting or a way of the musician/artist raising society's conscious or awareness of situations affecting a specific community, by the attitudes of a larger society? For example, a song like "Dreamer" is a good example of raising awarness, about race still being an issue in this society, regardless of MLK jr's fight and dream of a society embracing one another's differences, and treating one another as equals, yet in 2011 we still have a long way to go. As he raises the fact that situations like racial-profiling is still an issue within this society, even from the days of his own father. That's not race-baiting, that's being honest about a societal issue that still exists. But within the lyrics and at the end of the song, he made it clear that he won't give up on Martin's dream.

Now Gil Scott Heron, Curtis Mayfield, and others like Harry Belafonte and Stevie Wonder all did the same with many of their songs. I recall some of these artists did not 'hide' or 'sugarcoat' the socio-political, economic or race issues they sang about at some of the most turbulent times in American history.

So can you please expound on what you mean, compared to how you state "Jesse Johnson" expressed it...musically, compared to how Prince does? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Edited 10/21/11 8:14am]

Wow. You are asking some questions that are so deep, I feel like I should do some research before answering, but hey I'll do my best. To sum it up: Prince played the race card in his legal fight with WB. Suddenly he wants to fight the power. But it was his personal contract issue that served no purpose to the black community as a whole. He wasn't being victimized by race. In fact, the black community was probably more down on Prince's music at that point than any other group was. But he tried to use his ethnicity, to shame and intimidate WB into giving him more favorable terms.

I have no issue with artists that deal with race in music in general when they are being real. 2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway all have credibility when their lyrics touch on race. Prince, and it may just be the mentality of the man, the Man-Brat side of him that held up his fingers on Dick Clark to answer questions, but he says things, and then he's like "I didn't say nothing." He throws a rock, and then he hides his hand. He slides little racial jabs into his songs. And then kind of runs from it and for me it's a turn off.

I would respectfully disagree with you about Dreamer. This track references chemical sprays, someone being born on a slave plantation, but somehow now knowing they were different until MLK was killed? Slavery ended in 1865. MLK was shot over 100 years later. The USA described as a "loving society"? That's some very NOT REAL type of talk. He's got an eye open for "these devils"? ehh... I can't get into hate and name calling. Sounds like he's playing around with those issues, trying to sound like he has a message, when in fact he's just fueled by bitterness towards his contract situations.

No one can live someone else's life experience, and I don't know the 'details' of what went on with WB and Prince, other than what I've read from fans, which apparently none of us were in the boardroom at WB or the fly on the wall , to know what his exact demands were with WB, and personal reasons why he chose to wrote “Slave” on his face to make a statement. No one will know the exact reasons he chose to do that, but the musician himself, and if there was some racial unfairness going on behind the scenes with WB, and his contract, there was nothing wrong with him exposing it, nor should he be chastised for being bold enough to do so, when others have ‘cowarded’ to the occasion and just stayed silent about it. Secondly, in what ‘special’ way was his personal contract suppose to serve the black community ‘in particular’ or was there something in that contract obligating him to cater to a specific, portion of his fan base, based on their race/ethnicity? What you’re saying or seem to suggest, kind of sounds like you’re pigeonholing him or giving one the impression, that his music contract was suppose to serve or answer to one, specific group within his fan base, as though that was 'expected' of him from that specific group, when it's no secret that he never desired to 'pigeonhole' his music into one specific, racial/ethnic community, but moreso to reach out to and obtain a multiracial fan base, which he successfully achieved. So I have to ask who is the one pulling the 'race card' here by what you stated.

Secondly, you say it bothers you that he throws “racial jabs” into his songs, or I should say from what I get from your comment (translation: “He doesn’t elaborate enough on it for you"). Quite frankly he leaves enough room for fans to think about, question, and discuss, as many of his songs have led to further discussions. When he does elaborate on socio-economic/social ills or political issues, he's slammed for it by some fans who rather he just, sings, dance, shutup and don't think about such realities. I mean in their minds "How dare him, to be so concerned or show interest in such realities."

The track about chemical sprays referenced what Dick Gregory spoke about during the 2004 SOBU (State of the Black Union) conference. I’m assuming that portion of the song was a tribute to Dick Gregory, when Dick Gregory discussed chemical spraying and the lyrics referencing racial profiling as well. Tavis Smiley made it a point during the 2009 SOBU, that for years after the SOBU conferences were over, he and Prince talked for hours on the phone conversing and sharing the opinions on the socio-economic/educational/political, etc. issues discussed at the conference, regarding the Black community. So how is his interests/concerns for the Black community, which is part of his own, not be 'real'? Not to mention the financial contributions he's made to educational institutions within some of those communities as well. So yeah, a little 'research' always helps before pointing fingers and speaking out of one's ass..

What I get from the line in "Dreamer" regarding the line in the song" which references "one being born a slave and raised on the plantation of the red, white, and blue" is this: America, being the plantation, a land where the seed of racism was already planted in its soil, before he learned of racial prejudice. He talks of one being unaware of being seen 'different' by other humans with the assumption (or so he thought as a young man), that he was equal to all humans, and never noticed that his 'skin color' would have an effect on the 'attitudes' of others. Also, only to learn of the existence of racial prejudice/racism upon Martin’s death, and apparently being educated about Martin, during the time of Martin's death--what MLK stood and fought for and stance against social/racial injustices/inequailities.

So what I get from that song, is that Prince is saying regardless if Martin's dream was 42/43 years after Martin's assassination, he still won't give up on Martin's dream of everyone respecting/embracing one another as humans on an 'equal' basis. Basically I see the song raising societal ills that currently exists in this society, and one cannot deny that the seeds of 'racism' is in fact, planted in America's soil; that's what America was built on, and as ugly a truth that is, many generations benefited/benefit from it in one way or the other-- despite the damage and divide it has caused down the line generationally.

Societial/economic /racial and political ills, etc., should not be a topic 'off limits' to musicians/artists to express in their music, just because some music listeners/or fans may fear or are troubled by how the negative aspects of a realistic, societal ill may make them feel. Hope this helps. Thanks for responding earlier.

'After work, paragraph 1&2 edits'

[Edited 10/21/11 18:03pm]

NouveauDance said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

"Condensate" completely destroys "Gaslight", IMHO!

Same here!......... In opposite world!

Hee-hee, good thing we got both, eh.

Ya know?!

NeonCraxx said:

Beginning Enlessly.

Tell me otherwise.

OTHERWISE!! Definitely otherwise. Shit, that whole 20Ten album was (hey look, it sorta sounds like my 1999/PR records, so it's gotta be good, right??! Right, guys?? Guys? Hello??) gar-bahge.

funksterr said:

1725topp said:

Your statement, "At his zenith it was SEX, SEX, SEX," proves that either you were not truly listening or just could not comprehend the layers of commentary of Prince's work. If you check Prince: A Pop Life, The Lyrics of Prince, or just truly analyze the double and triple metaphors of Prince's work, you would realize that Prince's discussion of sex was a discussion of human neurosis. Where other artists were using objects and images as metaphors for sex, Prince was using sex as a metaphor to discuss human longing for completion. As he, himself, stated, "More than being just about sex, my songs are about longing and the need for connection." You do realize that "Sexuality" is a socio-political song about liberation from hypocritical and prescribed social norms? Of course "Party Up" is an anti-war song. You do know that "Baby" is a very subtle and smart song about unexpectant pregnancy with a male speaker accepting full responsibility to be a father. "Ronnie Talk to Russia," yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "When Doves Cry," a haunting song about how coming from a dysfunctional family hinders one's ability to develop healthy relationships, yeah, that's sex, sex, sex. "Uptown" is another commentary on individuality, and years later he was reaffirming that with "Walk, Don't Walk" and countless other songs. Even a song like "Little Red Corvette" provides a look into the schizophrenic male mentality as the speaker is not sure if he wants to sex or save the female. He warns her about going too fast, but then only wants her to slow down so that he has the chance to drive her. "Free" is about being thankful for living in a place where one has the freedom to speak one's mind but also asserts that people must continue to fight for these freedoms or they can be lost. Yeah, that's more sex, sex, sex. The entire Around the World in a Day album is about anything but sex for sex sake where even a song like "Tambourine," which is about masturbation, uses masturbation as a metaphor for the unfulfilled life that one unsuccessfully attempts to escape through sex, which climaxes, pun intended, with "Temptation" when we hear that love and lust are different and that we cannot sex our way to inner peace. It may not be high philosophy, but it does have depth, especially in a society where so many people do use sex like another drug. “America” anyone? “Sign ‘O” the Times”? Just listing these last two songs causes me to question if you really are a Prince fan. And what I love about "Colonized Mind" is that while his religious beliefs have become more traditional his F-the world attitude has not, challenging all those who think that he has been brainwashed by asking if they are actually the ones who have been brainwashed. Agree with his stance or not, it is still F-the world. I could provide many more examples, but I'm sure that my examples would be too idiosyncratic or obtuse for you to understand.

*

And as for your "race-baiting" comment, I'll just file you under the many former fans who feel betrayed because a black man has the nerve to discuss issues that affect the black community. I mean, how dare he? Who does he think he is to create art from a "black" perspective? Why would any black person dare to create art that seeks to uplift and champion the beauty and causes of black people? Yep, he must be a "race-baiting" hate monger. Or is that in your assumption of life a black person is only worth something when he is trying to be as less black as possible?

*

So, while Prince's work may seem idiosyncratic or obtuse to someone who doesn’t think that commercial art should make us think, I prefer his method to the mind numbing stuff that is called art.

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

NeonCraxx said:

Beginning Enlessly.

Tell me otherwise.

OTHERWISE!!

Nope. Sorry.

It's Amazing.

The end.

funksterr said:

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

So, you not buying or believing that Prince was using sex as a metaphor to say something deeper about the human condition makes me “disingenuous,” i.e. dishonest, insincere, or untruthful. We can agree to disagree, but how am I or my views “disingenuous”? Here is all that I can say. Based on what I’ve studied about poetic devices and what other writers have had to say about poetic devices, it is very plausible that Prince uses sex as a way to make commentary about deeper emotional and psychological issues. However, I provided just as many songs that make socio-political statements that have nothing to do with sex, and you never attempted to debunk those. And, I will add to those, “Starfish and Coffee,” “Mountains,” “Christopher Tracy’s Parade,” the entire Lovesexy album (and if you don’t see that as the climax of his use of sex to make socio-political commentary about human longing and the struggle to evolve to a higher being then we are viewing the world with extremely different eyes), most of the songs on Graffiti Bridge, and so many more, proving that Prince has written just as many, if not more, songs that make socio-political commentary than those that merely celebrate sexual pleasure. Now whether we agree with his message or if you think that his mastery of language/lyrical flow is not well-crafted can be debated, but there can be no denying that Prince has always been a songwriter who made socio-political commentary. The problem for him has been that his use of sensationalism has often overshadowed the message (“You wouldn’t have drank my coffee if I hadn’t use cream”), especially in a world when most don’t won’t to work that diligently to understand the messages. So, no, I have not proven your point because my point, with the use of examples of actual songs, is that Prince’s discussion of sex is a metaphor of something deeper.

*

Now, as an aside, I like the way that Javi presented a disagreement in a more objective manner when stating: “I think some of the reviewers of Prince lyrics who have said that sex for Prince is a metaphor to discuss other subjects sometimes read too much in his lyrics. He certainly says more than sex, and his lyrics can make us think and discuss, but trying to sell Prince as a philosopher almost bigger than Stevie Wonder or Baudelaire is exaggerated, in my opinion.” My only response is that sometimes in the case of historical figures, such as Baudelaire and even Shakespeare, we forget that they were often criticized as negatively as someone like Prince today. In fact, many of the same critiques of Prince for being self-indulgent, eccentric, egotistical, insane, batshit crazy, overwhelming idiosyncratic, or obtuse are all the same things for which Baudelaire were criticized. However, just because some scholars have decided that Baudelaire belongs in the academy we ignore those critiques of Baudelaire or attribute them to his genius. Shakespeare’s plays were performed next to sex houses and meant to appeal to the people who patronized those houses. And, like anyone trying to earn a living, Shakespeare used sex and violence to attract an audience while slipping a deeper message underneath the sensationalism. Yet, now, he is, for many, the standard of English literature. Faulkner was out of print until one scholar made it his mission to tell the world about the genius of Faulkner. Now it is almost impossible to earn an English degree in America without some class that addresses the work of Faulkner. I am not saying that Prince deserves to be studied in the academy, but it is clear to me that Prince understands the history of poetic (sound and language) device and uses them in the same way as Wonder and Baudelaire to articulate his message. Now, we can debate whether his execution is to the level or mastery of theirs, but his use of poetic device and his understanding of the history of a particular image of symbol are clear in how he uses them to communicate his messages or create the myth that he desires to create. Prince’s lyrics (imagery) at their best seem to be as smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant as Wonder and Baudelaire even if they have a much larger catalogue of smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant lyrics.

*

I have enjoyed Prince’s music and message over the past fifteen to twenty years. And I will admit that calling you a “former fan” may have been a bit harsh, but I continue to state that I don’t understand why so many people who have not been moved or entertained by Prince in the last (add your own number) years continue to frequent a “fan” site to say that they hate his work? It has been explained to me that this site is about more than just Prince? I don’t understand that when it’s called “Prince.org,” but, okay, I can accept that as a plausible reason why so many return. All I know is that if an artist had not moved me in the past ten to fifteen years, I don’t know how I could still be a “fan” of his or regularly visit a site designed to study and celebrate his art. So, while we disagree on what it means to be a “fan”, I have no right to call you a “former fan” just because I don’t understand your definition of “fan”. And, you can feel free to continue to call me a “cult-like worshiper,” simply because I still enjoy his music.

*

As for my views on race, the discussion was not about my views. Though I do not post on this site as much as others, most people who see “1725topp” know that I am a black nationalist, know that I have been a community organizer for the past twenty years, and know that I think that integration, while a noble ideology, can never allow African Americans to achieve self-love and sovereignty (sovereign institutions) like black nationalism can. But, again, we were discussing Prince’s views as manifested in his lyrics. I did not know that you needed to know my views, but since you have called me disingenuous I now realize that everything about me is called into question because I disagree with your assessment of Prince’s lyrical meaning and depth. As for Prince’s addressing of race, songs like “Avalanche,” “We March,” “Uncle Sam,” “You Will Be Moved,” “Paris 1798430,” the end of “Push,” “Sacrifice of Victor,” and many more are truthful, smart, and creative. I don’t see how they are race-baiting, and I still do not understand why so many people were angered or offended by The Rainbow Children. I’m not saying they don’t have the right to be angered or offended, but I still don’t understand the points or logic used by many to justify their anger or offence so I just agree to disagree with them.

*

I love Verbal Penetration, but even as a black nationalist I am not interested in Jesse’s notion of the rise of the Moorish nation. Yet, I don’t think that Jesse is being disingenuous because I disagree with him. Just because Jesse is black does not mean that I think that Jesse should feel the same way about racism as I do. Now, let me be clear. I do desire for African American artists to address racism, but I do not expect all of us to address it in the same manner because I understand the history of African people in America, especially that we were a three tiered people once there were field slaves, house slaves, and free blacks, creating multiple ideologies and reactions to racism, which is how we get Dubois and Washington or King and X. So, yes, I love Verbal Penetration and the fact that Jesse makes some very valid and insightful points about racism, but I also hit the skip button when he begins discussing the rise of the Moorish nation. Furthermore, I think the whole rant about Pluto is silly, but it is to such a funky beat that I listen to it. Now, do I think that either you or Jesse is disingenuous because I find the song about Pluto silly? No, because, unlike you seem to think, I don’t think that you have to address the race issue or issues of racism or any issue just like I would for me to consider you “real” or “authentic.”

*

So, you are a black man. So what? I never connected your views to your race. And, my stating that Prince is black was to make the point that as a black man he would discuss black issues. The question is, “Who are you to say that Prince has or is being inauthentic in his views,” which is what you are saying when you state that he is “race baiting.” Then you say that people like “2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway” are more “real”, i.e. authentic in their views. And, this is based on what, especially as it relates to 2pac and Ice Cube? In fact with that statement, you are the one who is being myopic. I will not call you disingenuous like you called me because to be disingenuous is to be dishonest or insincere, and I am not going to assume anything about you because I don’t know your heart. But this is the problem that I have always had with hip hop and its “keeping it real” mantra. I’m a black man from the South. How can anybody from Brooklyn or LA tell me how to “keep it real”? Thus, while most African Americans suffer some form of racial injustice, I realize that one’s reaction to it will be as individual or as diverse as African people are. So just because Prince did not address racism when or how you wanted him to address it does not make his addressing of it any less “real” than 2pac or Ice Cube, especially when we know that Ice Cube now makes millions from doing the same types of things for which he attacked Hammer for doing so how “real” is yo’ boy Ice Cube? Was Ice Cube “real” when he was dissin’ Hammer for being mainstream, or is he “real” now that he makes money using the same type of philosophy as Hammer? Don’t get me wrong. I’m clear that Ice Cube could kick my ass, but the point is that people change their attitudes and ideologies all the time. Was MLK being disingenuous when questioned the effectiveness of integration when he stated “I think that I have integrated my people into a burning house”? Was he being disingenuous when he stated that “often black people are integrated out of power rather than into power”? In both cases he seems to be questioning his lifelong dedication to integration, and based on your statement that would make him disingenuous or not “real”. Additionally, I will argue, as I have many times on this site, that Prince was actually being more disingenuous in his early days because he chose Bobby Z because he was white and not just because he was a good/great drummer. This is no knock on Bobby Z, but Prince seems to have been more calculating in his multicultural, paisley park world ideology than he is now in wanting to address issues about injustice that he and others have suffered due to being black. In truth, most black people don’t care about racism or discrimination until it is them who are denied the job or opportunity. Then, they want to seek assistance from organizations or community organizers. So, yes, Prince began to question late in life whether or not he was being treated a certain way because he was black. Again, race was not that type of issue to him until he was forced to consider it. And, I’m not saying that Warner Bros. treated him badly or that if they did treat him badly it was because of race. I’m saying that Prince’s entrance or perceived late arrival into the discourse of racial discrimination suffered by African Americans is not that different than most. For most people, problems must be personal before they get involved. So just because you do not like Prince’s current ideology and stance on racial issues does not mean that he is not being “real” or true to his heart or “race-baiting”.

*

When I was in high school and Around the World in a Day was released, I realized that this dude was following his own muse/way, and that there was a great possibility that he would release music that I would not like or make a statement with which I would not agree. Yet, simultaneously, that was another element that made me a fan of his. People change how they view the world. In high school most of the black students called me “white boy lover” because I listened to rock-n-roll. Yet, I’ve had people on this site call me a racist and, now, a race-baiter. In the same vein, I know people who were once black nationalist who are now integrationist. I don’t think they were being disingenuous then or now. The one consistent element about Prince is that he is a seeker or searcher. That is the personality of some people. With that understanding, all I have ever wanted from Prince is music that makes me think, feel, and dance, and for thirty-one years (since 1980) he has yet to disappoint me. I can’t speak for how or why he has disappointed others, but I am not disingenuous in how I feel about his work, and with my best guest, which is all most of us have, I don’t think that he is disingenuous either, but, again, we can agree to disagree as we are clearly doing.

What's wrong with sum of you? Prince is more of The Time than the OriginalO7ven, that might be the reason he's not letting use the name. Did any of you hear Pandemonium? The Prince songs sounded like The Time not the songs written by the O7ven. @ the jerk that said Prince started sounding like Rick James after he opened for Rick, are you nuts? Prince has always been Prince, since his 1st album. Can't you hear the progression from 1 album to the next. Rick never said P stole his sound, he claimed he stole his stage show. There is a difference ya know. didn't Rick steal P's already programmed keyboard? Prince has been compared to Rick, Michael, James, George, Sly & Stevie. And he gets no respect from his so-called fans & he's being slammed on his own fan page. I think maybe you guys should start fan pgs for The O7ven, Fdeluxe & Wendy & Lisa.

1725topp said:

funksterr said:

I simply don't buy into the argument that Prince used sex as any great metaphor for anything. I believe he wrote about sex so much simply as a way to get attention from horny teenage record buyers. Period. I said you could pretty much sum up his early works with "sex, sex, sex" and I feel that you have reaffirmed that statement only adding that sex in his songs could also be seen to be a commentary on society, isolation, or individualism. The point remains the same, he's talking about sex A LOT. I think to say otherwise is disingenuous.

As to the racial issues you raised... wait first...why are you referring to me as a "former fan"? Is it because I think is is a shame that Prince is mega-talented, but pretty much puts put unenjoyable music the last 15-20 years? Is it that I do not have a cult-like worshipful view of him as an artist? Anyway I noticed YOU HAD NOTHING TO SAY on the racial issues. You simply played the race card. Cute tactic, but foolishly executed. I AM A BLACK MAN, and as such, I know the difference between creating art from a black perspective and race-baiting. Prince race-baits. Not in his early days, but sometime around 1997/1998, as pressures mounted in his personal life, he fell into that trap. And he's still there. Jesse Johnson's Verbal Penetration, on the other hand is a highly uplifting album, tackling issues in the black community. I have championed that record on this site for years. So GETT OFF your soapbox.

So, you not buying or believing that Prince was using sex as a metaphor to say something deeper about the human condition makes me “disingenuous,” i.e. dishonest, insincere, or untruthful. We can agree to disagree, but how am I or my views “disingenuous”? Here is all that I can say. Based on what I’ve studied about poetic devices and what other writers have had to say about poetic devices, it is very plausible that Prince uses sex as a way to make commentary about deeper emotional and psychological issues. However, I provided just as many songs that make socio-political statements that have nothing to do with sex, and you never attempted to debunk those. And, I will add to those, “Starfish and Coffee,” “Mountains,” “Christopher Tracy’s Parade,” the entire Lovesexy album (and if you don’t see that as the climax of his use of sex to make socio-political commentary about human longing and the struggle to evolve to a higher being then we are viewing the world with extremely different eyes), most of the songs on Graffiti Bridge, and so many more, proving that Prince has written just as many, if not more, songs that make socio-political commentary than those that merely celebrate sexual pleasure. Now whether we agree with his message or if you think that his mastery of language/lyrical flow is not well-crafted can be debated, but there can be no denying that Prince has always been a songwriter who made socio-political commentary. The problem for him has been that his use of sensationalism has often overshadowed the message (“You wouldn’t have drank my coffee if I hadn’t use cream”), especially in a world when most don’t won’t to work that diligently to understand the messages. So, no, I have not proven your point because my point, with the use of examples of actual songs, is that Prince’s discussion of sex is a metaphor of something deeper.

*

Now, as an aside, I like the way that Javi presented a disagreement in a more objective manner when stating: “I think some of the reviewers of Prince lyrics who have said that sex for Prince is a metaphor to discuss other subjects sometimes read too much in his lyrics. He certainly says more than sex, and his lyrics can make us think and discuss, but trying to sell Prince as a philosopher almost bigger than Stevie Wonder or Baudelaire is exaggerated, in my opinion.” My only response is that sometimes in the case of historical figures, such as Baudelaire and even Shakespeare, we forget that they were often criticized as negatively as someone like Prince today. In fact, many of the same critiques of Prince for being self-indulgent, eccentric, egotistical, insane, batshit crazy, overwhelming idiosyncratic, or obtuse are all the same things for which Baudelaire were criticized. However, just because some scholars have decided that Baudelaire belongs in the academy we ignore those critiques of Baudelaire or attribute them to his genius. Shakespeare’s plays were performed next to sex houses and meant to appeal to the people who patronized those houses. And, like anyone trying to earn a living, Shakespeare used sex and violence to attract an audience while slipping a deeper message underneath the sensationalism. Yet, now, he is, for many, the standard of English literature. Faulkner was out of print until one scholar made it his mission to tell the world about the genius of Faulkner. Now it is almost impossible to earn an English degree in America without some class that addresses the work of Faulkner. I am not saying that Prince deserves to be studied in the academy, but it is clear to me that Prince understands the history of poetic (sound and language) device and uses them in the same way as Wonder and Baudelaire to articulate his message. Now, we can debate whether his execution is to the level or mastery of theirs, but his use of poetic device and his understanding of the history of a particular image of symbol are clear in how he uses them to communicate his messages or create the myth that he desires to create. Prince’s lyrics (imagery) at their best seem to be as smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant as Wonder and Baudelaire even if they have a much larger catalogue of smart, in-depth, insightful, and poignant lyrics.

*

I have enjoyed Prince’s music and message over the past fifteen to twenty years. And I will admit that calling you a “former fan” may have been a bit harsh, but I continue to state that I don’t understand why so many people who have not been moved or entertained by Prince in the last (add your own number) years continue to frequent a “fan” site to say that they hate his work? It has been explained to me that this site is about more than just Prince? I don’t understand that when it’s called “Prince.org,” but, okay, I can accept that as a plausible reason why so many return. All I know is that if an artist had not moved me in the past ten to fifteen years, I don’t know how I could still be a “fan” of his or regularly visit a site designed to study and celebrate his art. So, while we disagree on what it means to be a “fan”, I have no right to call you a “former fan” just because I don’t understand your definition of “fan”. And, you can feel free to continue to call me a “cult-like worshiper,” simply because I still enjoy his music.

*

As for my views on race, the discussion was not about my views. Though I do not post on this site as much as others, most people who see “1725topp” know that I am a black nationalist, know that I have been a community organizer for the past twenty years, and know that I think that integration, while a noble ideology, can never allow African Americans to achieve self-love and sovereignty (sovereign institutions) like black nationalism can. But, again, we were discussing Prince’s views as manifested in his lyrics. I did not know that you needed to know my views, but since you have called me disingenuous I now realize that everything about me is called into question because I disagree with your assessment of Prince’s lyrical meaning and depth. As for Prince’s addressing of race, songs like “Avalanche,” “We March,” “Uncle Sam,” “You Will Be Moved,” “Paris 1798430,” the end of “Push,” “Sacrifice of Victor,” and many more are truthful, smart, and creative. I don’t see how they are race-baiting, and I still do not understand why so many people were angered or offended by The Rainbow Children. I’m not saying they don’t have the right to be angered or offended, but I still don’t understand the points or logic used by many to justify their anger or offence so I just agree to disagree with them.

*

I love Verbal Penetration, but even as a black nationalist I am not interested in Jesse’s notion of the rise of the Moorish nation. Yet, I don’t think that Jesse is being disingenuous because I disagree with him. Just because Jesse is black does not mean that I think that Jesse should feel the same way about racism as I do. Now, let me be clear. I do desire for African American artists to address racism, but I do not expect all of us to address it in the same manner because I understand the history of African people in America, especially that we were a three tiered people once there were field slaves, house slaves, and free blacks, creating multiple ideologies and reactions to racism, which is how we get Dubois and Washington or King and X. So, yes, I love Verbal Penetration and the fact that Jesse makes some very valid and insightful points about racism, but I also hit the skip button when he begins discussing the rise of the Moorish nation. Furthermore, I think the whole rant about Pluto is silly, but it is to such a funky beat that I listen to it. Now, do I think that either you or Jesse is disingenuous because I find the song about Pluto silly? No, because, unlike you seem to think, I don’t think that you have to address the race issue or issues of racism or any issue just like I would for me to consider you “real” or “authentic.”

*

So, you are a black man. So what? I never connected your views to your race. And, my stating that Prince is black was to make the point that as a black man he would discuss black issues. The question is, “Who are you to say that Prince has or is being inauthentic in his views,” which is what you are saying when you state that he is “race baiting.” Then you say that people like “2pac, Ice Cube, Marvin Gaye, Donnie Hathaway” are more “real”, i.e. authentic in their views. And, this is based on what, especially as it relates to 2pac and Ice Cube? In fact with that statement, you are the one who is being myopic. I will not call you disingenuous like you called me because to be disingenuous is to be dishonest or insincere, and I am not going to assume anything about you because I don’t know your heart. But this is the problem that I have always had with hip hop and its “keeping it real” mantra. I’m a black man from the South. How can anybody from Brooklyn or LA tell me how to “keep it real”? Thus, while most African Americans suffer some form of racial injustice, I realize that one’s reaction to it will be as individual or as diverse as African people are. So just because Prince did not address racism when or how you wanted him to address it does not make his addressing of it any less “real” than 2pac or Ice Cube, especially when we know that Ice Cube now makes millions from doing the same types of things for which he attacked Hammer for doing so how “real” is yo’ boy Ice Cube? Was Ice Cube “real” when he was dissin’ Hammer for being mainstream, or is he “real” now that he makes money using the same type of philosophy as Hammer? Don’t get me wrong. I’m clear that Ice Cube could kick my ass, but the point is that people change their attitudes and ideologies all the time. Was MLK being disingenuous when questioned the effectiveness of integration when he stated “I think that I have integrated my people into a burning house”? Was he being disingenuous when he stated that “often black people are integrated out of power rather than into power”? In both cases he seems to be questioning his lifelong dedication to integration, and based on your statement that would make him disingenuous or not “real”. Additionally, I will argue, as I have many times on this site, that Prince was actually being more disingenuous in his early days because he chose Bobby Z because he was white and not just because he was a good/great drummer. This is no knock on Bobby Z, but Prince seems to have been more calculating in his multicultural, paisley park world ideology than he is now in wanting to address issues about injustice that he and others have suffered due to being black. In truth, most black people don’t care about racism or discrimination until it is them who are denied the job or opportunity. Then, they want to seek assistance from organizations or community organizers. So, yes, Prince began to question late in life whether or not he was being treated a certain way because he was black. Again, race was not that type of issue to him until he was forced to consider it. And, I’m not saying that Warner Bros. treated him badly or that if they did treat him badly it was because of race. I’m saying that Prince’s entrance or perceived late arrival into the discourse of racial discrimination suffered by African Americans is not that different than most. For most people, problems must be personal before they get involved. So just because you do not like Prince’s current ideology and stance on racial issues does not mean that he is not being “real” or true to his heart or “race-baiting”.

*

When I was in high school and Around the World in a Day was released, I realized that this dude was following his own muse/way, and that there was a great possibility that he would release music that I would not like or make a statement with which I would not agree. Yet, simultaneously, that was another element that made me a fan of his. People change how they view the world. In high school most of the black students called me “white boy lover” because I listened to rock-n-roll. Yet, I’ve had people on this site call me a racist and, now, a race-baiter. In the same vein, I know people who were once black nationalist who are now integrationist. I don’t think they were being disingenuous then or now. The one consistent element about Prince is that he is a seeker or searcher. That is the personality of some people. With that understanding, all I have ever wanted from Prince is music that makes me think, feel, and dance, and for thirty-one years (since 1980) he has yet to disappoint me. I can’t speak for how or why he has disappointed others, but I am not disingenuous in how I feel about his work, and with my best guest, which is all most of us have, I don’t think that he is disingenuous either, but, again, we can agree to disagree as we are clearly doing.

I love you...please have my children.

Omg..I cannot express enough appreciation for 1725Stopp's views/posts in regards to discussions of Prince's music and his analyzation of it. 100% awesome and then some.

'S' edit

[Edited 10/21/11 17:05pm]

Yeah 1725Stopp definitely get his point across though it had to come at a price in a thread about Prince vs. the Original7ven.

Timmy84 said:

Yeah 1725Stopp definitely get his point across though it had to come at a price in a thread about Prince vs. the Original7ven.

True.

I can appreciate all the thought many of you are putting into your posts, but I simply don't have the time to read all of it and respond properly. So let's agree to disagree for now. I have nothing to add to the conversation other than what I already have. I think, when you boil it all down, we are all basicly on the same page anyway. It's been a real thought provoking conversation. And if I've offended anyone personally, I apologize, ok? See you around the Org.

Hey guys, my apologizes for steering the conversation from Prince v. O7ven. So, I'll end with I like "Cadillac" and can't wait to hear the rest of the album. The Time is not just my favorite Prince project; they are one of my favorite bands, having seen them more times than I can count. Whether it is real or calculated drama, I still like the way that The Time plays yin to Prince's yang or funk foil to his metaphysical expressionism.