hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhhmpt said "The gold experience and love symbol are among his best albums"

well this explains a lot .. i shoulda known .. now i do

enjoy ur tony m and prince failed attempt to replace him on the gold experience with even worse rapping .. by himself

if this is what u think is better than marley well i guess there is just no showing some people what good music sounds like .. now i'm a bit bummed at how tasteless some prince fans are .. i guess 2 decades of crap music will do that to your fanbase ..

why do u refuse to answer my question about stevie, joni, mccartney etc? why do u refuse to admit your lies about sott songwriting credits, many mi's being on his level, the claim that it is easy to play bass and guitar at a pro level, that mccartney is a "virtuso" on many instruments? Because you know you are wrong

Please do us a favour and go listen to silly regaee music about getting high while the rest of us can enjoy great music that prince still makes. No, prince is not putting out crap music, he has been putting out amazing stuff, albeit inconsistently.

I am actually bummed at how stupid can one get. You simply refuse to acknowledge that most artist's prince's age are not matching their peak output either. Why dont u whine about them? It is you who has no music taste, no music knowledge, none whatsoever. The fact that the likes of Brian May, eric clapton etc think of prince as a great world class guitarist, and you simply dismiss him as being a "boring session player" and that "thousands" of guitarist can play like him shows your musical taste which is quite frankly crap.

Instead of responding to 5% of my post, please try and responding to most of it. You cannot because you know you have lied several times and that you have been owned on those lines.

and by the way, prince's best songs do stand right next to mccartney, lennon, joni, marley etc. End of story.

And the gold experience and love symbol are GREAT albums and among his best work. Both albums receive a great deal of praise from critics and fans, most critics and fans regard them as among his best work. Just because the rapping is silly doesnt take away from these two albums, there are many amazing songs in them. 7, And God Created Woman, Blue Light, Love 2 the 9's, Endorphinmachine, Gold, Shy, Eye Hate You, The Most beautiful girl in the world, 319 etc are all great or good songs and are well liked by most prince fans.

[Edited 5/28/11 21:34pm]

[Edited 5/28/11 23:27pm]

Gotta side with Trevor. Prince is great. The best ever? No. To suggest it simply shows a naivety and frankly some ignorance to the history of recorded music.

To stay on topic to the thread and stick with a ten year period, you eliminate The Beatles on a mere technicality that they ONLY released 13 timeless and flawless original albums in the 8 years it took to write and record them! So let's stick with 10-year increments...

hhhhdmt and OP:

Listen to Ellington, particularly the period I mention above.

Listen to Miles Davis, any 10 year period pre-Bitches Brew is fine. (He recorded four of the most important jazz albums in history over the course of two days recording sessions.)

Listen to Thelonious Monk. Any 10 year period.

Dylan first ten years, including all of the Basement Tapes material.

Stevie Wonder 1972-1981.

Charlie Parker.

Louis Jordan, who invented hip-hop and rap in the 1940s.

I could go on and on... but I will guarantee that you have not heard even 1/2 of what I mention above. Go do your homework by listening to some of the above, and come back to the thread.

I'll be waiting. I predict your first two words will be, "Thank you."

This is starting to look like bad communication or a fight between socialists and capitalists.

Trying to force a subjective taste down the throat of somebody one doesnt know is much more ignorant and naive than having a personal taste saying Prince has the greatest decade ever, or opposite, saying that he doesnt even reach the knees of John Lennon, Dylan and Mitchell.

I though find it very weird that some one trying to make Prince look like an average writer and musician is actually spending this much time on this board. You've got plenty of time I must say, and why spend it on something average?

My reason for loving prince music is his many dimensions he brings to a single song, yet an album. Yes, Led Zeppeling had the authentic sound and great musicians, but did they at all have the same ability to play on every piece of emotion like prince? Instead of doing great puristic hard rock, he would merge some of what a person could feel on such music with his unmistakable sound on pop rock songs like I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man. This is a fine piece of pop classic that was "hidden" behind the drum machine sound that many purists doesnt like. Prince was able to communicate the relation between a woman and a man better than most real couples, put actual sex in a musical form, communicates both a robotic non emotional way of playing and singing, and combining it with extreme, often penetrating emotions of desperation, love, hate, etc. This with a visual performance that nobody can match imo. Not forcing this down the throat of anyone, a highly persoal opinion.

and all of the bootlegs that would prove that he wasnt just a mindblowing forward thinking producer, but would also be able to play puristicly good on his demos. He was just bored with sounding like everything else, so he spiced it up with 80s production that actuall stand the time a hell of alot more than lets say Joni Mitchells Dog Eat Dog, which sounds extremely dated on the production side. She probalby did the 80s production because it was needed to get any salel, while Prince would think that this is a musically interesting piece of instrument.

Prince biggest problem was that he was often burning his ties to both ends, the "real" purists and the hipsters. Around The World In A Day was testing both his hardcorde fans and new listeners. The album imo is easily one of his 6-8 best albums. Prince was more likely to hide his skills, than showing off imo. That's why his music always has been so much stripped down, and not because of his skills. If he wanted to to a traditional hard rock album, he wouln't have a problem doing so. But he would be bored, because Prince never did anything but Prince, he was just getting inspiration from everything else that was good. All this IMO, it's ok to have an opinion and defending it.

Imaginative said:

hhhhdmt said:

why do u refuse to answer my question about stevie, joni, mccartney etc? why do u refuse to admit your lies about sott songwriting credits, many mi's being on his level, the claim that it is easy to play bass and guitar at a pro level, that mccartney is a "virtuso" on many instruments? Because you know you are wrong

Please do us a favour and go listen to silly regaee music about getting high while the rest of us can enjoy great music that prince still makes. No, prince is not putting out crap music, he has been putting out amazing stuff, albeit inconsistently.

I am actually bummed at how stupid can one get. You simply refuse to acknowledge that most artist's prince's age are not matching their peak output either. Why dont u whine about them? It is you who has no music taste, no music knowledge, none whatsoever. The fact that the likes of Brian May, eric clapton etc think of prince as a great world class guitarist, and you simply dismiss him as being a "boring session player" and that "thousands" of guitarist can play like him shows your musical taste which is quite frankly crap.

Instead of responding to 5% of my post, please try and responding to most of it. You cannot because you know you have lied several times and that you have been owned on those lines.

and by the way, prince's best songs do stand right next to mccartney, lennon, joni, marley etc. End of story.

And the gold experience and love symbol are GREAT albums and among his best work. Both albums receive a great deal of praise from critics and fans, most critics and fans regard them as among his best work. Just because the rapping is silly doesnt take away from these two albums, there are many amazing songs in them. 7, And God Created Woman, Blue Light, Love 2 the 9's, Endorphinmachine, Gold, Shy, Eye Hate You, The Most beautiful girl in the world, 319 etc are all great or good songs and are well liked by most prince fans.

[Edited 5/28/11 21:34pm]

[Edited 5/28/11 23:27pm]

Gotta side with Trevor. Prince is great. The best ever? No. To suggest it simply shows a naivety and frankly some ignorance to the history of recorded music.

To stay on topic to the thread and stick with a ten year period, you eliminate The Beatles on a mere technicality that they ONLY released 13 timeless and flawless original albums in the 8 years it took to write and record them! So let's stick with 10-year increments...

hhhhdmt and OP:

Listen to Ellington, particularly the period I mention above.

Listen to Miles Davis, any 10 year period pre-Bitches Brew is fine. (He recorded four of the most important jazz albums in history over the course of two days recording sessions.)

Listen to Thelonious Monk. Any 10 year period.

Dylan first ten years, including all of the Basement Tapes material.

Stevie Wonder 1972-1981.

Charlie Parker.

Louis Jordan, who invented hip-hop and rap in the 1940s.

I could go on and on... but I will guarantee that you have not heard even 1/2 of what I mention above. Go do your homework by listening to some of the above, and come back to the thread.

I'll be waiting. I predict your first two words will be, "Thank you."

i can completely understand if someone thinks his output is not the best ever. But you are seriously siding with trevor who is constabtly trying to discredit prince? that prince is a boring session guitarist even though guys like clapton and may think he is great? that his music over the last 20 years is all "crap"? that just because he can't match his peak output anymore means that he stole songwriting credits (what about others who are his age and cannot match their peak outputs? that wendy and lisa and his band members are the real geniuses behind his work and that he is incapable of doing anything on his own? He is comparing prince's weak songs to other artists best songs. You cannot be serious if you agree with him on all this

Trevor claims that prince has not made timeless music even though his songs are widely covered today by rock, funk, r&b and pop artists. He lied about the sott songwriting credits and refuses to admit it.

I am not a jazz fan so i dont see the point of listening to it. I respect jazz musicians trememdously because i know that stuff is very hard but its one genre of music that doesnt appeal to me. I respect them but its not something that i find appealing. I dont find grunge appealing either. I like listening to pop, rock/hard rock, r&b, funk, and some blues and punk etc. I cannot pretend to like every genre even though i respect them

Bottom line is i have no problem with anyone who thinks prince's output between 79-88 is not the greatest in history. What i do have a problem is people like trevor constantly trying to discredit prince, lying about songwriting credits and his guitar/mi skills, claiming he played many instruments because of insecurity (another lie), claiming that prince "failed" to do most genres well (nonsense, given that he is excellent at atleast six differnt genres). That is what i have a problem with.

[Edited 5/29/11 2:52am]

some people write great poetry and lyrics
some people play and sing well on their instruments

some people dance and communicate good visually

some people compose great pieces of music as a whole

most of these artists that were mentioned as too good to be even compared to the "average" of lets say prince is just good at one or two of this things imo

hhhhdmt said:

Imaginative said:

Gotta side with Trevor. Prince is great. The best ever? No. To suggest it simply shows a naivety and frankly some ignorance to the history of recorded music.

To stay on topic to the thread and stick with a ten year period, you eliminate The Beatles on a mere technicality that they ONLY released 13 timeless and flawless original albums in the 8 years it took to write and record them! So let's stick with 10-year increments...

hhhhdmt and OP:

Listen to Ellington, particularly the period I mention above.

Listen to Miles Davis, any 10 year period pre-Bitches Brew is fine. (He recorded four of the most important jazz albums in history over the course of two days recording sessions.)

Listen to Thelonious Monk. Any 10 year period.

Dylan first ten years, including all of the Basement Tapes material.

Stevie Wonder 1972-1981.

Charlie Parker.

Louis Jordan, who invented hip-hop and rap in the 1940s.

I could go on and on... but I will guarantee that you have not heard even 1/2 of what I mention above. Go do your homework by listening to some of the above, and come back to the thread.

I'll be waiting. I predict your first two words will be, "Thank you."

i can completely understand if someone thinks his output is not the best ever. But you are seriously siding with trevor who is constabtly trying to discredit prince? that prince is a boring session guitarist even though guys like clapton and may think he is great? that his music over the last 20 years is all "crap"? that just because he can't match his peak output anymore means that he stole songwriting credits (what about others who are his age and cannot match their peak outputs? that wendy and lisa and his band members are the real geniuses behind his work and that he is incapable of doing anything on his own? He is comparing prince's weak songs to other artists best songs. You cannot be serious if you agree with him on all this

Trevor claims that prince has not made timeless music even though his songs are widely covered today by rock, funk, r&b and pop artists. He lied about the sott songwriting credits and refuses to admit it.

I am not a jazz fan so i dont see the point of listening to it. I respect jazz musicians trememdously because i know that stuff is very hard but its one genre of music that doesnt appeal to me. I respect them but its not something that i find appealing. I dont find grunge appealing either. I like listening to pop, rock/hard rock, r&b, funk, and some blues and punk etc. I cannot pretend to like every genre even though i respect them

Bottom line is i have no problem with anyone who thinks prince's output between 79-88 is not the greatest in history. What i do have a problem is people like trevor constantly trying to discredit prince, lying about songwriting credits and his guitar/mi skills, claiming he played many instruments because of insecurity (another lie), claiming that prince "failed" to do most genres well (nonsense, given that he is excellent at atleast six differnt genres). That is what i have a problem with.

[Edited 5/29/11 2:52am]

why don't you prove to us that prince did create every piece of music on his albums and wrote all the lyrics to his music? he has never refuted any of the claims that andre cymone has made, he has never refuted the claims that jessie johnson has made. so show me how it is all a lie.

Imaginative said:

hhhhdmt said:

why do u refuse to answer my question about stevie, joni, mccartney etc? why do u refuse to admit your lies about sott songwriting credits, many mi's being on his level, the claim that it is easy to play bass and guitar at a pro level, that mccartney is a "virtuso" on many instruments? Because you know you are wrong

Please do us a favour and go listen to silly regaee music about getting high while the rest of us can enjoy great music that prince still makes. No, prince is not putting out crap music, he has been putting out amazing stuff, albeit inconsistently.

I am actually bummed at how stupid can one get. You simply refuse to acknowledge that most artist's prince's age are not matching their peak output either. Why dont u whine about them? It is you who has no music taste, no music knowledge, none whatsoever. The fact that the likes of Brian May, eric clapton etc think of prince as a great world class guitarist, and you simply dismiss him as being a "boring session player" and that "thousands" of guitarist can play like him shows your musical taste which is quite frankly crap.

Instead of responding to 5% of my post, please try and responding to most of it. You cannot because you know you have lied several times and that you have been owned on those lines.

and by the way, prince's best songs do stand right next to mccartney, lennon, joni, marley etc. End of story.

And the gold experience and love symbol are GREAT albums and among his best work. Both albums receive a great deal of praise from critics and fans, most critics and fans regard them as among his best work. Just because the rapping is silly doesnt take away from these two albums, there are many amazing songs in them. 7, And God Created Woman, Blue Light, Love 2 the 9's, Endorphinmachine, Gold, Shy, Eye Hate You, The Most beautiful girl in the world, 319 etc are all great or good songs and are well liked by most prince fans.

[Edited 5/28/11 21:34pm]

[Edited 5/28/11 23:27pm]

Gotta side with Trevor. Prince is great. The best ever? No. To suggest it simply shows a naivety and frankly some ignorance to the history of recorded music.

To stay on topic to the thread and stick with a ten year period, you eliminate The Beatles on a mere technicality that they ONLY released 13 timeless and flawless original albums in the 8 years it took to write and record them! So let's stick with 10-year increments...

hhhhdmt and OP:

Listen to Ellington, particularly the period I mention above.

Listen to Miles Davis, any 10 year period pre-Bitches Brew is fine. (He recorded four of the most important jazz albums in history over the course of two days recording sessions.)

Listen to Thelonious Monk. Any 10 year period.

Dylan first ten years, including all of the Basement Tapes material.

Stevie Wonder 1972-1981.

Charlie Parker.

Louis Jordan, who invented hip-hop and rap in the 1940s.

I could go on and on... but I will guarantee that you have not heard even 1/2 of what I mention above. Go do your homework by listening to some of the above, and come back to the thread.

I'll be waiting. I predict your first two words will be, "Thank you."

Lol...........I know all of those artist and each one is good in his own right. It comes down 2 personal taste NOT facts......None of those artist move me like Prince does but it does not take away from their music or skill sets as artist.

I'm a fan of a LOT of artists from Marvin to Stevie to Todd Rundgren...and PRINCE is right UP there. He definitely deserves his accolades and he definitely had a great run as far as material goes for the first decade he emerged out of. To deny that will be like denying your kidney...

jackson35 said:

hhhhdmt said:

i can completely understand if someone thinks his output is not the best ever. But you are seriously siding with trevor who is constabtly trying to discredit prince? that prince is a boring session guitarist even though guys like clapton and may think he is great? that his music over the last 20 years is all "crap"? that just because he can't match his peak output anymore means that he stole songwriting credits (what about others who are his age and cannot match their peak outputs? that wendy and lisa and his band members are the real geniuses behind his work and that he is incapable of doing anything on his own? He is comparing prince's weak songs to other artists best songs. You cannot be serious if you agree with him on all this

Trevor claims that prince has not made timeless music even though his songs are widely covered today by rock, funk, r&b and pop artists. He lied about the sott songwriting credits and refuses to admit it.

I am not a jazz fan so i dont see the point of listening to it. I respect jazz musicians trememdously because i know that stuff is very hard but its one genre of music that doesnt appeal to me. I respect them but its not something that i find appealing. I dont find grunge appealing either. I like listening to pop, rock/hard rock, r&b, funk, and some blues and punk etc. I cannot pretend to like every genre even though i respect them

Bottom line is i have no problem with anyone who thinks prince's output between 79-88 is not the greatest in history. What i do have a problem is people like trevor constantly trying to discredit prince, lying about songwriting credits and his guitar/mi skills, claiming he played many instruments because of insecurity (another lie), claiming that prince "failed" to do most genres well (nonsense, given that he is excellent at atleast six differnt genres). That is what i have a problem with.

[Edited 5/29/11 2:52am]

why don't you prove to us that prince did create every piece of music on his albums and wrote all the lyrics to his music? he has never refuted any of the claims that andre cymone has made, he has never refuted the claims that jessie johnson has made. so show me how it is all a lie.

i was talking about the sott songwriting credits which are a lie. He gave credit to dr fink, sussanah melvoin, eric leeds and carole davis. No one else EVER claimed to co write a single song on that album. Thats what i was talking about

And i never said prince wrote every single one of his songs. I said he wrote most of them.

hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhhmpt said "The gold experience and love symbol are among his best albums"

well this explains a lot .. i shoulda known .. now i do

enjoy ur tony m and prince failed attempt to replace him on the gold experience with even worse rapping .. by himself

if this is what u think is better than marley well i guess there is just no showing some people what good music sounds like .. now i'm a bit bummed at how tasteless some prince fans are .. i guess 2 decades of crap music will do that to your fanbase ..

why do u refuse to answer my question about stevie, joni, mccartney etc? what question??? the one where u ask me why i dont give them shit for sucking later in life??? its irrelevant thats why .. we are comparing each artists greatest outputs not their worse .. i only bring up prince recent lack of great music in terms of because we got into a discussion about prince actual talent when he is not influenced by the group that took him to the top .. i do use bob dylan as an example because he was and is able to come out with brilliant music even in his 60's leonard cohen as well .. i only bring up stevie joni and mccartney because i feel they have written better songs than prince and therefore prince cannot get the greatest artist award why do u refuse to admit your lies about sott songwriting credits what lies? you are very confused and apparently very angry too .. you have said numerous things that i supposedly said that i did not say and then argued with your own misquoted points and statemens .. let me explain songwriting credits to you ... did you know that lennon wrote many songs himself and so did paul mccartney? .. do you realize they were ALL credited to both lennon and mccartney for legal and promotional reasons? they were and still are credited as the greatest songwriting duo of all time .. but they wrote most of the songs individually only contributing feedback and perhaps a few minor ideas here and there on most of the songs save a few hatchet jobs like abby road medley and a day in the life .. those sorts of songs. prince was promoted as a solo genius .. even tho he was working out songs with the band he would record them himself and in numerous instances did not credit others .. prince can and does write and record great music himself but his best work usually involves others .. he is marketed and a lot of prince fans wholeheartedly believe he just did it all himself .. i dont believe that at all, many mi's being on his level, the claim that it is easy to play bass and guitar at a pro level, that mccartney is a "virtuso" on many instruments? Because you know you are wrong if you dont find mccartney to be a virtuoso than ur just from another planet than me .. u must live in some purple dream or something .. ur entitled to your opinions but yesterday is the most covered songs in history last i heard . and its brilliant as are about 200 other songs he has written consistantly .. u just dont seem to get the difference between having "it" and not having "it" .. nor do u seem to get that studio musicians are everywhere .. thats who backs up a lot of the big names and helps pump out a lot of the comercial music you hear .. they are capable competent can play blazing fast solos like prince .. and like prince ... they tend to sound a little stale without being pushed by the more creative people they are working for .. prince on his own recently is very boring to me .. there is not that spark he used to have .. and that in my opinion is what puts him in the very technically good but not great guitar, keys category .. i don't get your obsession with being "right" i don't really care if i am right or wrong but why dont you call the other people who agree with me liars and clueless like you call me??? just seems like you wanna be a bully and not actually discuss the different points of the question posed in this thread.

Please do us a favour and go listen to silly regaee music about getting high while the rest of us can enjoy great music that prince still makes. well if you are refering (pun intended) to marley than perhaps you do not realize how political and IMPORTANT his music is .. its also romantic and dance oriented .. sure he likes his gonja but prince likes his plastic whores .. what does that have to do with anything? No, prince is not putting out crap music, he has been putting out amazing stuff, albeit inconsistently. i am happy for you that you enjoy his music so much .. i'm a huge fan of prince for the most part but the backslide in quality for me is too great to ignore in the context of this thread .. i can't theoretically blow smoke up prince ass just because of his past accomplishments ..

I am actually bummed at how stupid can one get. You simply refuse to acknowledge that most artist's prince's age are not matching their peak output either. Why dont u whine about them? what are u talkin bout willis? this is a prince thread .. i try to keep it prince as much as possible .. if i wanna bitch about paul mccartney i'll do it elsewhere It is you who has no music taste, no music knowledge, none whatsoever. coming from you i'll take that as a compliment The fact that the likes of Brian May, eric clapton etc think of prince as a great world class guitarist, and you simply dismiss him as being a "boring session player" and that "thousands" of guitarist can play like him shows your musical taste which is quite frankly crap.on guitar i am not impressed by prince on any kind of consistant basis .. he has his great moments which i have said numerous times but for the most part he is a very safe player .. does not take chances .. much like a session musician .. sure he is compentent and can play most anything as can many guitarists ... but on guitar he is just not up to that level .. i do not buy prince albums expecting great guitar music at all because i would be disappointed .. i do expect great songwriting tho and i am often very disappointed which sucks cuz he used to blow my mind ... but that was when he was hangin with a higher class of musical collaborators ... as in the real genuine article ..

Instead of responding to 5% of my post, please try and responding to most of it. You cannot because you know you have lied several times and that you have been owned on those lines. lets get something very strait .. nobody owns me .. and while you are likely a nobody .. u don't own me either .. and this is not the first time i have responded to you line for line .. what do u want me to follow you to the bathroom and wipe your ass for you too .. everytime i respond you write the exact same response again and ignore everything i said ... ur not capable of reading and obsorbing my responses you just get pissed and repeat the same dumb insults .. why should i keep responding? hopefully u got more than 5% out of me this time and can get off it.

and by the way, prince's best songs do stand right next to mccartney, lennon, joni, marley etc. End of story. i disagree .. prince has great stuff but woah .. his lyrics rarely blow me away .. they are cute, clever sometimes really really good .. but not on the level of mitchell, cohen, dylan .. not at all .. and to me a song is nothing without the lyrics .. sure instrumetal stuff is good but to me a great song is great thru and thru .. prince tends to ruin his good ideas with idiotically bad irrelevent lyrics that have nothing to do with what makes a good song to me .. but hey to each there own

And the gold experience and love symbol are GREAT albums and among his best work. Both albums receive a great deal of praise from critics and fans, most critics and fans regard them as among his best work. Just because the rapping is silly doesnt take away from these two albums, this is where we differ .. i feel that it DOES take away from the music there are many amazing songs in them. 7, And God Created Woman, Blue Light, Love 2 the 9's, yup there are great songs on that record .. thats the last one that has stuff i really love on it but i wouldn't compare anything on it to marley or lennon or dylan level of songwriting and tony m really makes a lot of headway sabbotaging the whole record Endorphinmachine, Gold, Shy, Eye Hate You, The Most beautiful girl in the world, 319 i dont like these songs very much .. he became very cartoonish and faux cool, trying to impress or be cool to a certain demographic that he had no clue about .. its like when ur dorky dad tries to be cool and try out the young kids hip catch phrases that are already outdated .. just makes me cringe .. etc are all great or good songs and are well liked by most prince fans.

[Edited 5/28/11 21:34pm]

[Edited 5/28/11 23:27pm]

my response in bold above

i am sorry but you have lied on this thread and you have been owned. lets see:

1. You have NO EVIDENCE that others wrote the music he was credited for, none whatsover. I DO NOT CARE what you believe, facts are facts. Fact is that he has written most of his best music by himself and you are putting his band on a pedestal. They did not write those songs. So bottom line is i could not care what you believe, facts remain facts. This is not a Lennon-Mccartney partnership where two equally great songwriters were writing. This is prince whose songwriting abilities were far ahead of any of his band members. When you can actually prove that his bandmembers co wrote or wrote most of his material in the 80's, then i will believe you. Until then the fact remains that Prince has written most of his best material by himself

2. You did claim that there are "thousands" of guitarist like him. Just because prince doesnt show off his guitar work on his records that often doesnt mean he isnt a great player. Most non fans who saw the rock and roll hall of fame performances were blown away by his guitar skills. Brian may went on his blog after watching prince play live and called him a world class guitarist. Eric clapton and steve vai have also called hima great player. There are not "thousands" of players like him , just a few hundred. To claim that there are thousands of players like him does show lack of music knowledge.

3. YOU DID lie about the SOTT songwriting credits. You claimed that wendy and lisa were not credited and that prince "erased" songwriting credits. Ofcourse you were proven wrong on this considering that Dr Fink, Eric Leeds, Sussanah Melvoin, and Carole davis were credited. The rest was all prince and no one has ever claimed to have written any of those 13 songs. So You DID LIE

4. Prince was the one writing hits and great songs for others, not his bandmembers. Ofcourse you have some excuses for that as well, you will say nonsense like "oh its because he was famous". NO. "I feel for you" was written by prince on his second album it became a hit for Chaka Khan. His band members did not write it. "manic monday", "sugar walls", "nothing compares 2 u", "love thy will be done" etc were all written by prince. Why oh why did prince write multiple hits for others while any of his band members did not do so?Because they could not do so.

5. if Prince is so boring to you and he has made "crap" music according to you for the past two decades, why are you still on here? Why not go to a bob dylan fansite since bob is appearently still making masterpieces? If i didnt like most of an artists output over 20 years, i would simply stop being a fan

6. Mccartney is a great songwriter but he is not a "virtuso" on many instruments. Do You know what a virtuso is? Let me show you

this is Steve Vai, a virtuso guitarist:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...IrWyZ0KZuk

This is Dennis Chambers, a virtuso drummer:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...uDZBIBfOeY

So since you claimed Mccartney is a "virtuso" on "many" instruments, it must mean that he plays guitar like Vai and drums like Chambers, right? Because that is what you call an instrumental virtuso.

7. You dont like the songs on TGE and love symbol very much? Too bad, since most fans and critics do regard them among his best works. So you are in the minority here.

8. You said that i am living in a "purple dream". No i am an objective fan. I have no problem with anyone who thinks that prince's output is not the greatest. I do have a problem with people like you lying about songwriting credits and failing to prove this.

8. Lyrics? Marley was a great lyricist? really, because most songs i've heard from him have realitively simple lyrics. Maybe you can name me the many songs that bob did which had amazing mindblowing lyrics

9. Speaking of naming things, have u figured out the "many" multi instrumentalists that are on prince's level? I am still waiting

Bottom line is this, prince's output at his peak is among the best in pop/rock history. Its his genius. You have been proven wrong everywhere from lying about sott songwriting credits, lying about him playing instruments out if insecurity, and so on.

please name me the "many" songs that prince did not credit his band members and please prove this. Prince was not "promoted" as a solo genius, he was a solo genius. Until and unless you can prove that his band members were not credited on numerous songs like you claim, you will be considered a liar, nothing else. Your "beliefs" are irrelevant. You "believe" mccartney is a "virtuso" on "many instruments" while it is extremely rare for a musician to be a virtuso at two instruments, let alone "many". You believe that there are thousands of guitaritsts on prince's level, even pro guitatirst would laugh at such an assertion.

So it doesnt matter what you "believe", its his songwriting, his genius. Until you prove your claims, prince will be regarded as the genius behind his work, and thats because he is.

And you refuse to answer the question about Paul Mccartney Stevie wonder, joni mitchell etc? Why dont you whine about them not matching their peak output anymore? How many artists in their 50's can match their peak output? I have asked this question a dozen times and you have refused to answer every time because you know you are wrong. Since Stevie and Joni can no longer match their peak output, it must mean that they stole songwriting credits, right?

Not liking an artists output over two decades and still continuing to whine about it is pathetic. Stop being a fan then, there is no point whining, the 80's are long gone. Maybe you should complain on a wendy and lisa fansite since they were the geniuses behind his work. There are plenty of us here who enjoy his recent stuff. I love 3121 and Lotus3flower has grown on me, i really like that one too. No point in complaing about an artist who has made so called "crap" over two years according to you

If i didnt like an album an artist has done for a decade, i would simply stop being a fan, instead of whining. You just cannot accept that most artists in their 50's cannot match their peak but you only criticise prince for it. Not others.

[Edited 5/29/11 21:35pm]

hhhhdmt, you have fought the good fight here and you are definitely on the side of truth in your arguments for Prince. For those of us without the patience or knowledge to wage this fight against Prince's detractors, I say THANK YOU!

However, as one who is also an avid fan of Robert Nesta Marley, please do not give short shrift to the genius of this reggae master. Reggae may not be your chosen genre, but as one who sides with you on this particular Prince issue, trust me on Marley, please. Bob Marley belongs in the conversation for one of the all time greats. He was a diverse songwriter whose topics ranged from politics to spirituality to folly to love.

I personally believe Prince to be the greatest musical artist who has ever lived. But arguments can also be made for the extraordinary talents of Bob Marley, James Brown and others.

mrInsatiable said:

hhhhdmt, you have fought the good fight here and you are definitely on the side of truth in your arguments for Prince. For those of us without the patience or knowledge to wage this fight against Prince's detractors, I say THANK YOU!

However, as one who is also an avid fan of Robert Nesta Marley, please do not give short shrift to the genius of this reggae master. Reggae may not be your chosen genre, but as one who sides with you on this particular Prince issue, trust me on Marley, please. Bob Marley belongs in the conversation for one of the all time greats. He was a diverse songwriter whose topics ranged from politics to spirituality to folly to love.

I personally believe Prince to be the greatest musical artist who has ever lived. But arguments can also be made for the extraordinary talents of Bob Marley, James Brown and others.

thanks. I didn't mean to be rude towards Marley, he was a great artist with a great sound. And yes he did write songs with meaningful lyrics, but i think his lyrics were relatively simple just like most of prince's lyrics that are relatively simple

I have no problem with anyone rating a Hendrix or Wonder or JB or Marley ahead of P. Its the absurd claims made in this thread against Prince that get on my nerves.

hhhhdmt, you are very welcome.

However, I don't agree that Prince has relatively simple lyrics. By simple, though, are we talking structure or content? I'd like to hear your take on this more so than one of his detractors.

mrInsatiable said:

hhhhdmt, you are very welcome.

However, I don't agree that Prince has relatively simple lyrics. By simple, though, are we talking structure or content? I'd like to hear your take on this more so than one of his detractors.

i mean content. His structure isnt relatively simple, and he can write amazing lyrics like sign of the times, when doves cry, dreamin about u (probably the song with his most underrated lyrics). But i feel that even alot of his best material had good but not amazing lyrics, like raspberry beret, when you were mine. It doesnt matter, though, because his sound is amazing. I didnt mean to say that he is an ordinary lyricist, i think he is very good, i do think that alot of his best stuff doesnt have very comlicated lyrics.

Okay, I can agree that his content was not as 'heavy' as Dylan, Marley, Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, etc... But, the era that he wrote in was much different, less political, less socially conscious. And his relative youth account for his more individualized stylings. However, who, aside from maybe Marley, touched on the profound and profane, often in the same song, with the ease that Prince did.

Again another artist that is so far different from Prince. I can't even compare Prince and Marley. It'll be like comparing a cheeseburger to a hot dog...

hhhhdmt said:

mrInsatiable said:

hhhhdmt, you are very welcome.

However, I don't agree that Prince has relatively simple lyrics. By simple, though, are we talking structure or content? I'd like to hear your take on this more so than one of his detractors.

i mean content. His structure isnt relatively simple, and he can write amazing lyrics like sign of the times, when doves cry, dreamin about u (probably the song with his most underrated lyrics). But i feel that even alot of his best material had good but not amazing lyrics, like raspberry beret, when you were mine. It doesnt matter, though, because his sound is amazing. I didnt mean to say that he is an ordinary lyricist, i think he is very good, i do think that alot of his best stuff doesnt have very comlicated lyrics.

why do you think complicated is better? It's often harder to make things simple.

“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.” - Einstein

The western european music usually more sublte poetry than tends to sometimes beat about the bush, while music inspired by western african music is more direct in it's language. Prince managed to combine the nature of both arts in something I have never heard from anyone else. Not that it matters, but it matters to me.

but the fact remains there are tons of artist that had better decades then prince. some of the people on this board are not long time prince fans but yet they want t challenge other people on what they known about prince.

jackson35 said:

but the fact remains there are tons of artist that had better decades then prince. some of the people on this board are not long time prince fans but yet they want t challenge other people on what they known about prince.

my experience on this board is that people are either trying to make him look like a god, either that or trying to outsmart org members by listing a bunch of names that are more widely known and accepted everywhere because they do authentic music that is easier to get into.

hhhhdmt said:

mrInsatiable said:

hhhhdmt, you have fought the good fight here and you are definitely on the side of truth in your arguments for Prince. For those of us without the patience or knowledge to wage this fight against Prince's detractors, I say THANK YOU!

However, as one who is also an avid fan of Robert Nesta Marley, please do not give short shrift to the genius of this reggae master. Reggae may not be your chosen genre, but as one who sides with you on this particular Prince issue, trust me on Marley, please. Bob Marley belongs in the conversation for one of the all time greats. He was a diverse songwriter whose topics ranged from politics to spirituality to folly to love.

I personally believe Prince to be the greatest musical artist who has ever lived. But arguments can also be made for the extraordinary talents of Bob Marley, James Brown and others.

thanks. I didn't mean to be rude towards Marley, he was a great artist with a great sound. And yes he did write songs with meaningful lyrics, but i think his lyrics were relatively simple just like most of prince's lyrics that are relatively simple

I have no problem with anyone rating a Hendrix or Wonder or JB or Marley ahead of P. Its the absurd claims made in this thread against Prince that get on my nerves.

and hhhhdmt head slowly comes out of his ass as some one other than me makes the same points i made .. watch hhhhdmt backslide and appologize .. ahh now thats better .. you are almost having a discussion instead of a pissing contest

here is your proof you doof .. look on the best prince records its says clearly written produced and performed by prince and THE REVOLUTION ..

i'm not a prince detractor either .. but when you throw around his huge catolog as some kind of reason he is a genius and most of it is rubbish i'm gonna call u on it .. we are talking best of all time here not weather i like prince or not and i am making solid points as to why his massive output and multi instrumental abilities do not warrant the best of all time status .. because it only counts if its really good and with prince a lot of it is really bad .. even people who side with you know that marley james brown beatles and numerous others deserve much higher praise than you are willing to admit

and ps .. you still are posting the same thing over and over .. why not try something that you can back up with proof .. cuz even people who agree with you can tell you are completely ignorant of reality

hhhhdmt said:

Mccartney is a great songwriter but he is not a "virtuso" on many instruments. Do You know what a virtuso is? Let me show you

You're not helping your argument at all.

McCartney is ABSOLUTELY a virtuoso bassist by anyone's standard. In addition, he is also a virtuoso rock vocalist and songwriter. It would be fairly simple to make an argument that he is among the most emulated musicians of the 20th Century in all three of the above criteria, if not in the top position in at least two out of three of these.

In addition, he is an excellent guitarist, and a very fine drummer and piano player, albeit not virtuoso in these areas.

[Edited 5/30/11 17:31pm]

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

thanks. I didn't mean to be rude towards Marley, he was a great artist with a great sound. And yes he did write songs with meaningful lyrics, but i think his lyrics were relatively simple just like most of prince's lyrics that are relatively simple

I have no problem with anyone rating a Hendrix or Wonder or JB or Marley ahead of P. Its the absurd claims made in this thread against Prince that get on my nerves.

and hhhhdmt head slowly comes out of his ass as some one other than me makes the same points i made .. watch hhhhdmt backslide and appologize .. ahh now thats better .. you are almost having a discussion instead of a pissing contest

here is your proof you doof .. look on the best prince records its says clearly written produced and performed by prince and THE REVOLUTION ..

i'm not a prince detractor either .. but when you throw around his huge catolog as some kind of reason he is a genius and most of it is rubbish i'm gonna call u on it .. we are talking best of all time here not weather i like prince or not and i am making solid points as to why his massive output and multi instrumental abilities do not warrant the best of all time status .. because it only counts if its really good and with prince a lot of it is really bad .. even people who side with you know that marley james brown beatles and numerous others deserve much higher praise than you are willing to admit

and ps .. you still are posting the same thing over and over .. why not try something that you can back up with proof .. cuz even people who agree with you can tell you are completely ignorant of reality

Can you prove that most of prince's 80's output was not written by him or it was co written? No, then SHUT UP

You Lied about SOTT songwrititng credits, so SHUT UP

You called Mccartney a virtuso on "many instruments", and you failed to prove this, so SHUT UP

You refused to answer the question about other artists in their 50's not matching their peak output, so SHUT up

You need to pull your head out of your ass. You have been owned on this thread several times.

Look at prince and revolution? Look at the songwtriting credits , is mostly says PRINCE.

You have NO PROOF, therefore you are a liar. Your "beliefs" are irrelevant because you believe in alot of nonsense. You will never ever be able to prove this nonsense, because it is exactly that: nonsense. Prince is the genius behind his work, not his band.

You have not made ANY solid points, other than lying. You failed to give names of the "many" MI'S that are on that level because you are a liar. You were owned when you claimed that there are "thousands" of guitarists like him.

Prince has made plenty of great music over the loast 20 years. If you think its rubbish, then there is no point whining about it. Go complain on a stevie wonder or a joni mitchell fansite since they are still matching their peak output.

Prince's output is among the best in pop/rock history and its up there with anyone including Marley, brown and whoever else. Until and unless you can PROVE that he stole "numerous" songwriting credits, you will be a liar, plain and simple. And you are a liar.

You must enjoy getting owned, and you have been owned on this thread a dozen times. No wonder you have refused to answer the questions.

[Edited 5/30/11 19:47pm]

[Edited 5/30/11 19:55pm]

[Edited 5/30/11 20:11pm]

Imaginative said:

hhhhdmt said:

Mccartney is a great songwriter but he is not a "virtuso" on many instruments. Do You know what a virtuso is? Let me show you

You're not helping your argument at all.

McCartney is ABSOLUTELY a virtuoso bassist by anyone's standard. In addition, he is also a virtuoso rock vocalist and songwriter. It would be fairly simple to make an argument that he is among the most emulated musicians of the 20th Century in all three of the above criteria, if not in the top position in at least two out of three of these.

In addition, he is an excellent guitarist, and a very fine drummer and piano player, albeit not virtuoso in these areas.

[Edited 5/30/11 17:31pm]

no i am making a valid point. He said Mccartney is a "virtuso" on "many" instruments. I do not count songwriting as an instrument. I was talking about instruments as in guitar, bass, drums, piano etc. He only qualifies as a virtuso in bass.

jackson35 said:

but the fact remains there are tons of artist that had better decades then prince. some of the people on this board are not long time prince fans but yet they want t challenge other people on what they known about prince.

its not about what they "know" about prince, is about making nonsense up, which is what trevor is very good at doing

care to name these "dozens" or artists that had better decades than prince? Does bobby brown count too?

hhhhmbdt .. i think your insane bully posts speak for themselves ..

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhmbdt .. i think your insane bully posts speak for themselves ..

no, you are the one who said i pulled my head out of my ass. I didnt use such language, your post is something that made me mad and i had every bit a right to act in that way.

hhhhdmt said:

Imaginative said:

You're not helping your argument at all.

McCartney is ABSOLUTELY a virtuoso bassist by anyone's standard. In addition, he is also a virtuoso rock vocalist and songwriter. It would be fairly simple to make an argument that he is among the most emulated musicians of the 20th Century in all three of the above criteria, if not in the top position in at least two out of three of these.

In addition, he is an excellent guitarist, and a very fine drummer and piano player, albeit not virtuoso in these areas.

[Edited 5/30/11 17:31pm]

no i am making a valid point. He said Mccartney is a "virtuso" on "many" instruments. I do not count songwriting as an instrument. I was talking about instruments as in guitar, bass, drums, piano etc. He only qualifies as a virtuso in bass.

So you don't consider Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, etc. virtuoso musicians because they are only mere vocalists? The human voice is not an instrument? Just because songwriting isn't an instrument, it doesn't mean that you can't be virtuoso at it.

By definition, virtuoso is "A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style." Playing an instrument (by your narrow definition) is not even a prerequisite.

If you are making a "valid point," it is somewhat lost on me. Seems more like you're getting caught up on the semantics of what an instrument is.

[Edited 5/30/11 21:37pm]

Imaginative said:

hhhhdmt said:

no i am making a valid point. He said Mccartney is a "virtuso" on "many" instruments. I do not count songwriting as an instrument. I was talking about instruments as in guitar, bass, drums, piano etc. He only qualifies as a virtuso in bass.

So you don't consider Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, etc. virtuoso musicians because they are only mere vocalists? The human voice is not an instrument? Just because songwriting isn't an instrument, it doesn't mean that you can't be virtuoso at it.

By definition, virtuoso is "A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style." Playing an instrument (by your narrow definition) is not even a prerequisite.

If you are making a "valid point," it is somewhat lost on me. Seems more like you're getting caught up on the semantics of what an instrument is.

[Edited 5/30/11 21:37pm]

I am sorry, if you read the previous pages we were talking about multi instrumentalism. I always treated the voice seperately from playing an instrument. Trevor claimed that Mccartney was a "virtuso" on "many" instruments. Even if you count vocals, i assume "many" is alot more than two. Besides in that case Prince qualifies as a virtuso singer too since his vocal range is comparable to anybody.