zaza said:

Apparently some of you have never listened to the "Black Album". Ding Dong!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I could also say that you are merely "rationalizing," which means to devise self-satisfying but incorrect or non-existent reasons for one’s behavior or opinion, by asserting how obvious it is that Clinton and Collins would say that Prince is no longer funky. There is no evidence to support that Clinton and Collins feel this way. A lot of people on this cite claim that Prince is no longer funky, but that does not mean that Clinton and Collins would agree that Prince is no longer funky.

Now, my comment that Musicology, 3121, Plant Earth, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS all make me want to dance was me responding to the earlier premise that something is only funky if a majority of people want to dance to it. "Chocolate City" is funky as hell, but it ain’t a dance tune. (Also, "Fantasy Is Reality" is that funk or not?) So, the premise that "Kiss" is not funky because some people at a club didn’t dance to it is a flawed premise. Now, the fact that the premise is flawed or false does not prove whether or not "Kiss" is funky, but that means that one needs another premise to determine whether of not Prince has ever been or is THAT funky.

Finally, me claiming that the above stated records make me dance or that they are funky is not, by definition, rationalizing; it is just an assertion of truth with the first point and an assertion of subjective taste for the second point. Now, when y’all keepers of the Funk Canon want to be bold and list objective points or standards for what defines "funk," then I possibly can be charged with "rationalizing" if I agree to a particular definition or standard of funk and then change my assertion or definition because some song I like does not adhere to that agreed upon definition or standard. Of course the problem there is that the thread states that Prince isn’t THAT funky, to which my response is "To whom?" Accordingly, the next response or question is "how much lacking of funk must one be to be considered not THAT funky?" See how circular all of this can get when you throw around terms like "rationalizing" to demean someone’s opinion just because they don’t agree with you. It is one thing to disagree with someone. It is another thing to attempt to demean someone’s ideas and tastes by using a term like "rationalizing" because their ideas and tastes are different than yours. "Isn’t life cruel enough without cruel words? U see, words are like shoes. They’re just something 2 stand on...4 U [and so many other people on this site], words are definitely not shoes. They’re weapons and tools of destruction, and your time is boring unless U’re putting something down...Come now, isn’t life a little better with a pair of good shoes?" Prince--"Hello".

Ernestsewell said:

When I first read this, my question was "how does changing one’s lyrics relate to or determine whether one is funky or not", but I’m guessing that you are discussing funk as the whole package and not just the music. However, the reason I raise this issue is that a lot of times I read on this site that Prince has lost it musically, but then the poster spends the rest of the post discussing Prince’s clothing, ideology, or attitude toward his fans. Now, certainly, you, Ernestsewell, are usually on point, and I learn a lot for your posts even if a disagree with a good amount of them, but this comment seems to speak to the notion that a lot of people on this site are pissed with Prince for his religious ideology and how he treats his fans and use that as a reason or excuse to bash the music. I don’t see how changing a lyric makes one unfunky, especially when all black music emanates from the church. In fact, I’ll argue that the most soulful R&B and Funk (just speaking music) is being played by gospel musicians since hip hop (the dominate/most commercially popular form of black music today) has all but killed the existence of black musicians in popular culture so I’m not sure how Prince changing the lyrics to his songs qualifies as him having lost his mojo or no longer being funky, unless you are asserting that only people in the secular world/culture can be funky. Yet, if that is the case, what does that say about the Staple Singers?

1725topp said:

I'm not sure who you are so busy trying to convince but it's certainly not me! I never said it was obvious that George and Bootsy would say that Prince is no longer funky. I said that I would bet cash money that they would.

Making it a gamble, meaning that...I COULD be wrong. However, I still don't think I am. The reason being...George and Bootsy ARE indeed "the keepers of the Funk Canon" as you asserted. YOU brought up what they said about Prince as a testament that he is "still THAT funky".

However, they said what they said about Prince years ago. A whole lot has changed with Prince and his music since then. If you think his current output is funky, that's good for you. I and many others just don't happen to agree.

Though, I have noticed that you don't seem to have a problem with the attempts to demean our ideas and tastes just because our ideas and tastes are different than yours.

So how are your toes doing?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:


So fuckin' what if George and Bootsy think that Prince ain't funky like he used to be.

From what I've heard from them over the last twenty or so years, they ain't exactly funkin' shit up like they used to either.

How sad that some adults waste there lives on messageboards trashing some artist's work because they somehow got butthurt somewhere along the way.

LETITGO.

weused2luvhim said:

Apparently, their opinions mean something to the ones who brought them up (That was not me, you know! ) as character witnesses to Prince's funkiness.

I haven't trashed Prince. All I've actually said is...I don't think he's funky...NOW!

What's SAD is how some adults that are wasting their lives on the same message board that I am, get all bent out of shape because they just can't handle the truth! If there wasn't the slightest hint of truth in what I and others have to say, y'all wouldn't get so bent out of shape about it!

Good lord.
Prince can be "funky" when he wants to be.
Those times have been few and far between in the last 20 years or so.
George and Bootsy could fart something funkier that Prince has ever done.
Which is my problem with this particular topic.
Normally I try to be a little more even handed where this topic is concerned, but this shit is getting out of hand.

Prince DIDN'T TAKE FUNK "TO ANOTHER LEVEL" because PRINCE ISN'T FUNK.

Prince TOOK ELEMENTS OF FUNK AND ADDED IT TO HIS OWN PERSONAL STYLE OF MUSIC.

Prince CAN BE FUNKY.

Prince IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE "FUNK".

The "MINNEAPOLIS SOUND" IS NOT "FUNK", AN OFFSHOOT OF FUNK, OR EVEN FUNK RELATED.

Claiming anything on 3121 or Planet Earth was "funk" is INSANE. PERIOD.

If you think that "KISS" is a "funk tune", YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT FUNK IS.

If you think that "BOB GEORGE" is a "funk song, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT FUNK IS.

If you think the "BLACK ALBUM" is a funk masterpiece, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT FUNK IS.

STOP DROPPING THE WORD "FUNK" IN REFERENCE TO PRINCE LIKE HE OWNS THE GENRE.

ButterscotchPimp said:

That is spot on.

fever said:

Boo yah! That's what this s**t is!

funk, according to the dictionary, also means 'foul-smelling coward'

Prince is reading this and laughing his FUNKY ass off.

.meh

edit


it's just not worth it to waste energy on some of these moronic comments
[Edited 5/23/10 20:10pm]

ButterscotchPimp said:

I just think that so many people define funk differently. I'm not disagreeing with u because I agree with most of ur post. I think that a lot of people around here think that just because a song contains a "funk" element it is considered a "funk" song. That is definitely not the case.

Hell, Maroon 5, Boz Skaggs, Steely Dan, Toto, MJ, Stevie, Brooks and Dunn, Millie Jackson, Big and Rich, etc. all have songs with FUNK elements, but aren't necessarily classified as funk songs.

daPrettyman said:

What is funk?

Jesus Christ, the stupidity in this thread is palpable!!!

Since we're comparing Prince to artists like George Clinton, Roger, Rick James, etc. And since Prince's musical ability has declined with age, he's not funky.

So, I'm guessing George Clinton isn't funky anymore because he hasn't put out anything remotely funky since Atomic Dog.

The funkiest stuff Roger Troutman could put out before his death was his old music being sampled.

And Rick James couldn't stay out of Jail, or off the Pipe long enough to put out something funky since Throwin' Down.

crazydoctor said:

Therein lies the issue with this thread.

I define funk as a song that hits HARD on the 1 (down beat). Usually it has a hard bass line and a rhythm guitar that colors the other funky elements.

I think so many people here on the org confuse a funky element with a funk song. Some say "Kiss" is not a funk song. Well, the album version isn't, but the extended version is. That 2nd part is such a traditional JB funk jam.

2freaky4church1 said:

ok
I am the first to say that Prince's work of say the past 20 years or so is not very good or very funky. I especially dislike just about everything he released in the 90's
And I agree that he is a multifaceted artist that has excelled in different genres and it would be difficult or even unnecessary to try and categorize his music. I would imagine that is why he is the icon he is today.

Having all said that, i really find it amusing how some of you will be so hard-core and rigid in your definition of one genre of music. All popular music evolved from one thing to another, all popular music styles are hybrids of something that came before it. There is no form of music that came into being from thin air. Prince is a hybrid, just like JB and Parliament.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and it is fun and interesting listening to people make a strong case for what the believe to be true, ....but, one's opinion doesn't necessarily make things true.
If anybody does a quick Google search with the term "funk" the very definition from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_Music

to the freaking Encyclopædia Britannica will cite Prince by name as a major player.

So from George Clinton, Miles Davis, Quincy Jones, to the very definition of funk in all major online encyclopedias, to music magazines like Spin and Rolling Stone, from all the top "funk song" or artists lists all over the net who list Prince as a major player in the art form.
Even funk-centric dedicated sites like www.funkatopia.com and http://newfunkorder.com/H...story.html drop his name.


I mean c'mon really people.

Of course I take everything I find on the net with a grain of salt, because I know you guys know much better anyway, but still, a representative of a quick Google search found things like...

"guide to funk music"
http://www.crispinsartwell.com/funk.htm



I am not trying to change anyone's opinion, but there is a world outside of your own and everything that goes on in your head may not be as definitive as you think,....just sayin.


I will say that it IS entirely possible that the entire world music consensus is wrong and you guys are right. There is that possibility too.
[Edited 5/23/10 23:04pm]

ernestsewell said:

everyone take note. "spot on" must be the new "bad" of slang... the opposite of its true definition.

errant said:

Everyone take note of a pissy little dickhead on my dick like a $2 whore.

ernestsewell said:

just like looking into a mirror isn't it?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

There is not one thing that I have posted that shows me trying to demean anyone's ideas and tastes. You used the term "rationalizing" in its negative connotation, and I was merely identifying that. I have not said that anyone is wrong, or lying, or rationalizing. In addition to that, I only asserted that the premise about "Kiss" was flawed, but I also stated that the flawed premise does not prove or disprove the point. So, I have not attempted to demean other people's ideas or tastes. That is not something that I do, and I have posted on this site more than a few times.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I'm not bent out of shape. I was just seeking clarification of your ideas. You were the person who used a negative term to address my tastes and ideas, and I addressed it merely to understand why you would be so dismissive of someone else's tastes and ideas. I just find it odd that the people on this site who think that Prince has lost it or has not been solid since "whenever" are so comfortable asserting that those of us who have enjoyed his output since 2000 must be either lying or have some other agenda (rationalizing) and can't just like the work. I hear that so much on this site that I thought that I would take the opportunity to ask someone of that opinion why you would feel that I was lying or rationalizing about liking the work. That is not me demeaning your tastes or ideas. That is me being honestly curious about your ability to be dismissive of other people's tastes.

And, my toes are fine. I take great care to choose the proper shoes/words so that I have no problem standing on what I say while also respecting the right of others to wear whatever ideas they so choose.

2freaky4church -->

1725topp said:

http://www.merriam-webste...ionalizing



I've said to you...on this thread...that I think it's good for you that you like Prince's newer music. That still doesn't mean it's FUNK and that doesn't mean that I have to like it but I didn't say anything about you being wrong or lying for saying that you do. You can't seem to see that though because you are just too busy rationalizing...how you can like Prince's newer music and others don't? So we must think you're lying or are wrong, even though, we never said any such thing.

The reason I think Prince hasn't been FUNKY for a long time is because FUNK is dead and Prince was the one that pulled the plug on it, in the '90's, when he forgot about the FUNK and tried to go Hip Hop!!

He's tried to get back to it but to me his FUNK just hasn't been quite right since then and after the year 2000...well, that's just a whole other conversation!

There have been some exceptions but they are just too few and far between. That's how I feel. That's what I think. It has nothing to do with you nor what you and anybody other than myself feels or thinks.

What a load of shit.

Hope the org improves. Maybe it needs closing for a month.

I think this is a general argument that has been raging for years-Is prince the genuine article of anything? I dunno really. In my head his gift is the blend and the meld not the Funk,Punk Rock argument that Prince can do it all. If you are in to a genre then you would never want Prince over that-however I think prince uses a style as an instrument and that is his gift. He allows one to enjoy the dictionary

This thread is interesting It's obvious that we have differing opinions on what "funk" really is.I once had this same debate with a friend of mine.He's a huge fan of hardcore funk....stuff like Sly,P-Funk,James Brown,Isley Brothers,etc.I mentioned Prince and he was like "Prince ain't funk!".I was shocked.

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that,Prince became a POP artist,reaching a wide audience.Real funk lovers sometimes see this as "selling out".

SoulAlive said:

Believe me I am a funkfiend. I have listened to james brown sly stone funkadelic parliament miles davis earth wind and fire fatback band cameo herbie hancock d'angelo jazzfunk fusion so many funk songs I have and I would like 2 say Prince is Funky and your friends are just acting to be fashionable when in reality if something is underground it doesn't make it better. Just because prince became a huge star doesn't mean he is not funky.

Prince versality is the problem so people can't put him in2 a single genre which is why I call prince genre - Prince.

No Funk No jazz no soul no blues - just simply PRINCE

better then wasting my precious time debating with people if prince is funk 2 me miles davis and george clinton then DAMN all the others.

I am out of these funk threads 4 now which I seem 2 find it a waste of time.
It seems 2 show the threads are not appearing 2 b interesting anymore.

One thing I must confess is Over the last few years prince has been losing the funk maybe he will release a double/triple album of a funk masterpiece someday.

which will shut all his critics up.

I blame chemtrails for this thread. It proves how stupid some Prince fans are. They just can't take another opinion and they think Prince is God. People - there are many artists who are BETTER and FUNKIER than Prince.

zaza said:

So by that you would agree that P is funky to a certain degree?