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Reply #60 posted 12/26/09 9:03am

Genesia

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vainandy said:



That's why whoever wrote the post that started this thread thinks that Prince (unknowingly) may have contributed a lot to the decline of black music....because he came before shit hop. Prince could do everything all by himself without the help of anyone else. Shit hoppers can do the same thing. The difference is, Prince did everything himself with instruments and the shit hoppers can do everything by themselves by punching buttons on a computer.

I think a lot of folks around here get bent out of shape because they think it's a personal attack on Prince. I don't see it that way at all but see it simply as the poster's observation. For instance, if you come to work and one of your co-workers quits, their work is going to be thrown on you until the boss hires someone else. The smart thing to do would be to do some of the work but purposely let some of it remain unfinished. If you complete all the work, the boss is going to notice that and he's not going to reward you with two salaries. Instead, he's not going to hire someone else and expect you to do the work of two people on the salary of one person. Then, all those tasks that you are doing are going to be considered the norm in your job and if you ever quit, the person they hire in your place will be expected to do all those duties also. Then the person that comes after you may complete all those duties but may cut corners and take shortcuts to complete them by using cheaper supplies or things needed to complete them. This will eventually lead to a shitty product but as long as the customers don't complain, the boss is happy because he has got all the work he can get out of someone at the cheapest cost possible for the biggest profit.

The technology was already being invented so even if Prince had never done everything himself, some shit hopper would still have found a way to do their little thing all by themselves so the decline still would have happened.



You're making an apples and oranges comparison. Yes, Prince may have pushed the technology - but that has nothing to do with the art.

I work as a writer. The fact that someone else knows how to type and use InDesign doesn't mean they can write on my level or that they can do my job. They can try - but the results won't be the same.

If I quit my current job and leave behind samples of my writing and my sheet of InDesign keyboard shortcuts, does that mean I'm responsible for the quality of the work of anyone who comes after me?

I think not.
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #61 posted 12/26/09 9:17am

2elijah

vainandy said:


That's why whoever wrote the post that started this thread thinks that Prince (unknowingly) may have contributed a lot to the decline of black music....because he came before shit hop. Prince could do everything all by himself without the help of anyone else. Shit hoppers can do the same thing. The difference is, Prince did everything himself with instruments and the shit hoppers can do everything by themselves by punching buttons on a computer.


Andy, rappers/hiphoppers "sampled" many real artists' music. They did not have that artist's craft or originality, which is why they sampled other artists work behind what they were rapping about. I hated that era, because if you're an artist, show me some creativity, originality;don't use someone else's originality as your own. That's not being creative enough for me to go out and purchase what you put out or appreciate you as a "real" artist. Show me what you can do, so I can appreciate and respect "your" talent, not see it as someone else's you copied from.

I mean you have to look at this from different eras. Disco killed the black slow jam groups like the Delfonics, Stylistics, The Dells, etc. That's when I noticed that type of music was being promoted less, and disco was on the rise, being promoted across America. After that, many black groups were going maintream, making its way across color lines through the mid 70s to mid 80s...then came rap/hip-hop... neutral .....and the record labels went full force in promoting that style of so-called music, and many of the "real artists" were struggling to keep their music afloat.
[Edited 12/26/09 9:32am]
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Reply #62 posted 12/26/09 9:25am

vainandy

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[quote]

Genesia said:

vainandy said:



That's why whoever wrote the post that started this thread thinks that Prince (unknowingly) may have contributed a lot to the decline of black music....because he came before shit hop. Prince could do everything all by himself without the help of anyone else. Shit hoppers can do the same thing. The difference is, Prince did everything himself with instruments and the shit hoppers can do everything by themselves by punching buttons on a computer.

I think a lot of folks around here get bent out of shape because they think it's a personal attack on Prince. I don't see it that way at all but see it simply as the poster's observation. For instance, if you come to work and one of your co-workers quits, their work is going to be thrown on you until the boss hires someone else. The smart thing to do would be to do some of the work but purposely let some of it remain unfinished. If you complete all the work, the boss is going to notice that and he's not going to reward you with two salaries. Instead, he's not going to hire someone else and expect you to do the work of two people on the salary of one person. Then, all those tasks that you are doing are going to be considered the norm in your job and if you ever quit, the person they hire in your place will be expected to do all those duties also. Then the person that comes after you may complete all those duties but may cut corners and take shortcuts to complete them by using cheaper supplies or things needed to complete them. This will eventually lead to a shitty product but as long as the customers don't complain, the boss is happy because he has got all the work he can get out of someone at the cheapest cost possible for the biggest profit.

The technology was already being invented so even if Prince had never done everything himself, some shit hopper would still have found a way to do their little thing all by themselves so the decline still would have happened.



You're making an apples and oranges comparison. Yes, Prince may have pushed the technology - but that has nothing to do with the art.

I work as a writer. The fact that someone else knows how to type and use InDesign doesn't mean they can write on my level or that they can do my job. They can try - but the results won't be the same.


That's an excellent example. Yes, they could try but the results wouldn't be the same because they wouldn't have the same passion about it as you do or the God given talent. They would be simply going through the motions to get paid.

If I quit my current job and leave behind samples of my writing and my sheet of InDesign keyboard shortcuts, does that mean I'm responsible for the quality of the work of anyone who comes after me?

I think not.


I totally agree. No you wouldn't be responsible and I don't think that Prince is responsible for the state of today's black music either. I never said I agreed with the original poster's post, I just said I can kinda see why they might think that Prince might be responsible for it. They just didn't seem to notice that even though Prince could do everything himself, he had talent as an actual musician and not just a button pusher. The ones that came after him doing everything by themselves weren't musicians and all they know is button pushing.
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[Edited 12/26/09 9:26am]
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #63 posted 12/26/09 9:37am

Harlepolis

Why is there such an opposition against the term "black music"? And please don't say there's no such thing wink
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Reply #64 posted 12/26/09 9:38am

2elijah

muleFunk said:

2elijah said:



Oh you better believe there are black artists with bands out there, but the music industry is not interested in them, because many of them play "real music" and have talent. If they're not singing about killing their mama, holding a gun, been in jail or gang-banging, record executives have no interest; the same is not required of a white rock bands though, yet they get signed. Go figure. You gotta love the music industry.[Edited 12/25/09 17:20pm]



Preach !

The rap music destroyed Black music not Prince.



lol Exactly, it was rap music, not Prince.

As long as rappers sang about disrespecting women, shooting someone or someone shooting them, bragged about their gunshot wounds, did time in jail, slapped their mamas, cursed, bragged about being in a gang and carried guns... and if you were black and called yourself a "rapper", and met all those requirements, then the record labels knew they could use you to make a profit-despite the disrespect in the lyrics that somehow affected a certain segment of the population--make no mistake, because then you became the record company's b*tch for profit.
[Edited 12/26/09 10:05am]
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Reply #65 posted 12/26/09 9:56am

dolorespark

Harlepolis said:

"Agree/Disagree" what the hell am I thinking? lol

Anyway I found this post to be very intersting, it was shared to me by a fellow org pal(who posts in Okayplayer, where he found it).

Disregard it if its a repost.

First off most people on here know I think Prince is one of the greatest artists of the past 50 years. I can't think of anyone that has made as many songs that I have enjoyed as much as I have his. If I listed my top 10 concerts ever, the 6 Prince shows I've seen would all be there. That said ..... Prince was NOT good for black music people.

I think a lot of what made him great also made him destructive. His creativity and confidence turned him into a sort of musical demigod. He didn't need a band to create and record with because in his mind nobody could play his music as well as he could. He didn't use background singers for the most part for the same reason. Prince was the show, standing above all others and he wanted to make sure you didn't forget that. Now of course Prince wasn't the first artist to feel this way. But he was the first that had the technology to isolate himself creatively the way he did. When you have the talent and ideas Prince did at the time, this isn't a bad thing in and of itself. The problem is, it inspired less creative and original people to follow in his footsteps. The end result was a parade of mediocre singer/songwriter/producer wannabes that would have been much better severed (creatively) being part of a larger collective. Just because you can make music by yourself doesn't mean you should. Of course existing bands also took note of what Prince was doing. They started cutting the "fat" and in doing so, knocked over the first domino in death of the black band.

As I said, Prince wasn't the first artist to have an ego. But he was the first to go to the lengths he did to keep from being shown up. One need to look no further than his first two side projects ... The Time and Vanity 6.... for prove of his obsessive narcissism.

Flyte Tyme by everyone's account was the baddest band in Minneapolis. So what did Prince do when he signed them? Fired their lead singer (Alexander O'Neal) and replaced them with his drummer friend Morris Day. The fact Morris couldn't sing meant nothing to Prince. As a matter of fact in his mind this was a good thing. This meant one less threat to Prince. But even this wasn't enough for him. Prince went into the studio and recorded almost all (if not all, there are various opinions on this) the music and background vocals for the first Time album. Think about this for a minute. You sign a band and then record an album under their name with your friend who you made lead singer. But that didn't matter to P. He was selling an alternate image of himself with the group. He wasn't producing in a way that would bring out the creativity in his artist, he was acting as a puppet master with his hand guiding every sight and sound associate with them. They weren't artist, they were props. Never was this truer than with his next project Vanity 6. Never before in black music history had there been a group that had this much style over substance. None of the girls could sing ...not even in a serviceable way really ... play any instruments or even dance. With Vanity Prince created the video chick before the video era even really kicked off. Once again, Prince was the star and his project was his window dressing. With Vanity 6 Prince proved you could market and sell records even though the "artist" had little to no talent. It would be foolish to think the industry didn't take note of this. This knowledge along with the emergence of the music video formed a powerful one two punch that marginalized vocal talent.

The interesting thing in all of this is how Prince slowly reverted back to more "traditional" ways as his creative tank started to run dry. Now days he loves to talk about "real music" and sing the praises of the funk and jazz stars of the past. He basks in the spotlight as the symbol of a by gone era. The last of his kind. And once again Prince is the show. And once again, Prince got exactly what he wanted.


Well? hmmm
[Edited 12/25/09 16:10pm]



Just be thankful that Prince's talents were discovered early on and everyone he came in contact eventually became part of the story...the rest is history. Long Live the Partyman!!
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Reply #66 posted 12/26/09 10:32am

hollywooddove

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2elijah said:

hollywooddove said:

I think when we are saying black music here we really mean to say hip hop and rap... am I right? True. Come to think of it, I can't think of any mainstream black bands.



No, not at all. Rap and Hip-hop does not define "black music". It's just one form that was born out of the black community. Black musicians have been playing many forms of music for years, from blues, jazz, gospel, boogie-woogie, swing, rock, rhythm and blues, etc. Most of the mainstream black bands, were visible in the 60s/70s era. R&B is usually associated with Black Artists,especially from the 60s and 70s; The Delfonics, Smokey Robinson, Temptations, The Ohio Players, Stylistics, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, just to name a few, had their own styles and were usually classified as R&B artists. In the late part of the 70s and 80s, you had artists like Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, Boys to Men, etc., moving more towards a crossover audience, and their music was pretty much typed as R&B/pop. In the late 60s plus the Jackson 5, and then MJ with his solo career, was pretty much "Pop or mainstream. But then again, people tend to forget that the "Last Poets" were the first rappers, but at least they did it with dignity. Some also say "Gil Scott Heron" was the first rapper, because of his social/political messages in his songs during the early 70s. Anyway, today, I don't even think I can name one group of all black band, promoted by the record industry.

You can check out this link of a thread I did on some artists of the past. You'll get an idea of some forms of music played by some early black artists.
http://prince.org/msg/8/325472
[Edited 12/26/09 8:50am]

Oh yes, I know and love all these artist, even up to death of what seemed to me to be the black bands in the late 80's with Kool and the Gang, The Gap Band, Jeffery Osborne, Ray Parker Jr., etc.
I was speaking of how sad it is that hip hop has completely dominated popular culture, or at least seemingly, for black performers.
I will repeat myself by saying that the white, static blast guitar groups now with NO, and I repeat, NO unique voices coming out is sad also.

There was a day when someone had to have either great vocal or musical talent to make it in that business. Now someone can just get lucky on American idol. Of course reality entertainment is the bastard child of the internet, and it lets people become famous simply on the honor of being born and still breathing.

It's almost like really crappy no talented people who have simply never been told "No, you suck" are everywhere.

The industry has been assimulated by piss poor networking and incredibly tastless promoters.
We are all so full of doody here
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Reply #67 posted 12/26/09 10:55am

vainandy

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Harlepolis said:

Why is there such an opposition against the term "black music"? And please don't say there's no such thing wink


People seem to forget how segregated radio was after the death of disco. Yes, there was "black music" and Prince was a big part of that scene also. White artists were played on white radio and black artists were played on black radio. People can sugarcoat it and try to say the artists were played on stations that played their genre but that wouldn't explain why "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad", which is a straight up rock song, was played on black radio only. I mean, black radio was "R&B" and "funk" right? So why was this rock song being played on there? And white radio was "rock" right? Then why wasn't "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" played on white radio?

Very few black artists made it to white radio except the ones that had made an impact during previous decades that white people were already familiar with such as Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, The Pointer Sisters, and Kool and The Gang. And the others that made it watered their music down so they could crossover. Yes, radio was very segregated and the fact that a lot of the older white Prince fans had never heard of Prince until "Little Red Corvette" is proof of that. Disco had been a genre that brought whites and blacks together and a lot of people couldn't stand that. The early 1980s was full of the "disco sucks" movement. A little simple thing like whites and blacks dancing and having a good time was so horrible but shit hop brought whites and blacks together years later and people were perfectly fine with it. But I guess it's OK to bring the races together as long as the black artists act like thugs, idiots, and jokes.
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #68 posted 12/26/09 11:10am

peterv

WOW...Really?
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Reply #69 posted 12/26/09 11:30am

Mars23

Moderator

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moderator

The original premise is just too short sighted and poorly thought out to really dwell on.

What I don't see in any of the complaints is any blame placed on the consumer. The recording industry delivers what sells, if people didn't buy the shit, they would move on to something else.

Do you think any recording exec wants do do business with a moron like Lil Wayne? They do it because people will lap it up.

In the early days of rap and even now how were people getting discovered? Mix tapes. No record execs were out there selling out of their trunk, forcing people to buy the tapes. The record execs saw that it sold and took the natural step any industry would take. Pump out what the people want to buy.
Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it.
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Reply #70 posted 12/26/09 11:31am

2elijah

hollywooddove said:

2elijah said:




No, not at all. Rap and Hip-hop does not define "black music". It's just one form that was born out of the black community. Black musicians have been playing many forms of music for years, from blues, jazz, gospel, boogie-woogie, swing, rock, rhythm and blues, etc. Most of the mainstream black bands, were visible in the 60s/70s era. R&B is usually associated with Black Artists,especially from the 60s and 70s; The Delfonics, Smokey Robinson, Temptations, The Ohio Players, Stylistics, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, just to name a few, had their own styles and were usually classified as R&B artists. In the late part of the 70s and 80s, you had artists like Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, Boys to Men, etc., moving more towards a crossover audience, and their music was pretty much typed as R&B/pop. In the late 60s plus the Jackson 5, and then MJ with his solo career, was pretty much "Pop or mainstream. But then again, people tend to forget that the "Last Poets" were the first rappers, but at least they did it with dignity. Some also say "Gil Scott Heron" was the first rapper, because of his social/political messages in his songs during the early 70s. Anyway, today, I don't even think I can name one group of all black band, promoted by the record industry.

You can check out this link of a thread I did on some artists of the past. You'll get an idea of some forms of music played by some early black artists.
http://prince.org/msg/8/325472
[Edited 12/26/09 8:50am]

Oh yes, I know and love all these artist, even up to death of what seemed to me to be the black bands in the late 80's with Kool and the Gang, The Gap Band, Jeffery Osborne, Ray Parker Jr., etc.
I was speaking of how sad it is that hip hop has completely dominated popular culture, or at least seemingly, for black performers.
I will repeat myself by saying that the white, static blast guitar groups now with NO, and I repeat, NO unique voices coming out is sad also.

There was a day when someone had to have either great vocal or musical talent to make it in that business. Now someone can just get lucky on American idol. Of course reality entertainment is the bastard child of the internet, and it lets people become famous simply on the honor of being born and still breathing.

It's almost like really crappy no talented people who have simply never been told "No, you suck" are everywhere.

The industry has been assimulated by piss poor networking and incredibly tastless promoters.


I have to agree with you, especially on the bolded part. It's just too easy today. I think about people who aspire to be musicians, go to school to learn the art of playing an instrument, only to compete with no talent so-called artists today, that record companies try to force feed the masses as "talented artists". I like artists with distinctive a distinctive sound, that catches my ear right away, and their music brings chills up my spine. Those only a handful I can count that are worthy of doing that. Most of the music I listen to is from the motown era and the 70s when real music was worth listening to. I still honor artists from that era, that are still around today, but you won't hear any of their current stuff on the radio, because in my opinion, radio is dead to real talent.
[Edited 12/26/09 11:34am]
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Reply #71 posted 12/26/09 11:35am

Imago

I never liked the term 'black' music, but I think Prince introduced a whole generation of listeners to R&B inspired music, some of whom probably heard or dug such music for the first time.

I know, if not for songs like "Do Me Baby" and "Adore", I wouldn't have really cared much for much of DeAngelo or Maxwell's stuff.

But even more significant is that due to Prince, I would never have given certain 'white' musicians a listen (Joni Mitchell, Ani Difranco, and even Kate Bush--yes, Prince was the one that turned me on to her. I liked Cloudbursting and Running Up that Bigass hill and shit, but I was never a fan).
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Reply #72 posted 12/26/09 11:41am

2elijah

vainandy said:



People seem to forget how segregated radio was after the death of disco. Yes, there was "black music" and Prince was a big part of that scene also. White artists were played on white radio and black artists were played on black radio. People can sugarcoat it and try to say the artists were played on stations that played their genre but that wouldn't explain why "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad", which is a straight up rock song, was played on black radio only. I mean, black radio was "R&B" and "funk" right? So why was this rock song being played on there? And white radio was "rock" right? Then why wasn't "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" played on white radio?

Very few black artists made it to white radio except the ones that had made an impact during previous decades that white people were already familiar with such as Donna Summer, Lionel Richie, The Pointer Sisters, and Kool and The Gang. And the others that made it watered their music down so they could crossover. Yes, radio was very segregated and the fact that a lot of the older white Prince fans had never heard of Prince until "Little Red Corvette" is proof of that. Disco had been a genre that brought whites and blacks together and a lot of people couldn't stand that. The early 1980s was full of the "disco sucks" movement. A little simple thing like whites and blacks dancing and having a good time was so horrible but shit hop brought whites and blacks together years later and people were perfectly fine with it. But I guess it's OK to bring the races together as long as the black artists act like thugs, idiots, and jokes.



Hmm...I don't vain. There's a lot of jazz artists that are loved by blacks and whites, and their music appreciated. I found that the mainstream music of black artists, if anything, brought some of the races together. Fact is, why only play to one particular crowd? Shouldn't be a limit as to who should buy or listen to your music. Another problem I noticed today is that many people don't know the history of rock and these days label it as "white music" when rock was being played in the 40s and and later in the 50s by black artists like Chuck Berry and Little Richard, just to name a few. The sound of rock changed near the 60s with a harder sound, in my opinion, when white musicians, basically played it more, so-to-speak. I did hear music from black and white artists being played on mainstream stations in the mid 70s, even James Brown, who was as black as black music could be in some sense, was played on some mainstream stations. he . There were many forms of music during the 70s, from hard rock/acid/soft rock, funk, new wave-british invasion in America, r&b, etc. Wasn't a lack of talent during that era at all.
[Edited 12/26/09 11:44am]
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Reply #73 posted 12/26/09 11:43am

babynoz

vainandy said:



That's why whoever wrote the post that started this thread thinks that Prince (unknowingly) may have contributed a lot to the decline of black music....because he came before shit hop. Prince could do everything all by himself without the help of anyone else. Shit hoppers can do the same thing. The difference is, Prince did everything himself with instruments and the shit hoppers can do everything by themselves by punching buttons on a computer.

I think a lot of folks around here get bent out of shape because they think it's a personal attack on Prince. I don't see it that way at all but see it simply as the poster's observation. For instance, if you come to work and one of your co-workers quits, their work is going to be thrown on you until the boss hires someone else. The smart thing to do would be to do some of the work but purposely let some of it remain unfinished. If you complete all the work, the boss is going to notice that and he's not going to reward you with two salaries. Instead, he's not going to hire someone else and expect you to do the work of two people on the salary of one person. Then, all those tasks that you are doing are going to be considered the norm in your job and if you ever quit, the person they hire in your place will be expected to do all those duties also. Then the person that comes after you may complete all those duties but may cut corners and take shortcuts to complete them by using cheaper supplies or things needed to complete them. This will eventually lead to a shitty product but as long as the customers don't complain, the boss is happy because he has got all the work he can get out of someone at the cheapest cost possible for the biggest profit.

The technology was already being invented so even if Prince had never done everything himself, some shit hopper would still have found a way to do their little thing all by themselves so the decline still would have happened.
.
.
.
[Edited 12/26/09 8:53am]



I agree Andy. The guy was making an observation of the unintended consequences that followed a standard set by Prince. There's a vast difference between technology in the hands of a master musician like Prince and those of much lesser talent who have tried to follow his example. The industry bean counters lapped up this model simply because it was a cheaper way to produce music. Then, with the help of video, the proceeded to sell this inferior product to the masses. I also agree that the decline would have happened anyway. Some no talent hack would have stumbled upon the method eventually.

If people could get past their defensiveness about Prince, it's actually an interesting discussion.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #74 posted 12/26/09 11:47am

Aaron6

The great thing about this thread is that it made everyone on here come with depth and great insight in regards to perspective. It shows that you guys know your history interms of Prince, black/white music, and the industry as a whole. I can honestly say this has been one of the BEST threads that I have Seen posted on here! This makes me proud to be apart of the Prince community! biggrin
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Reply #75 posted 12/26/09 11:50am

babynoz

Harlepolis said:

Why is there such an opposition against the term "black music"? And please don't say there's no such thing wink


I'd like to know that myself. It's taking political correctness too far IMO.

No one would question it if we were talking about the music of other cultures, Japanese, Indian, etc. and it irks me when people always gotta question when we talk about black music from a cultural perspective.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #76 posted 12/26/09 12:01pm

babynoz

And let me just add that when we talk about black music from a CULTURAL perspective it does not start or stop with R&B and hip hop. There's blues, jazz, soul, reggae, funk, etc. The same diversity one would expect to find in any other culture.

Slightly off topic but I'm just sayin'.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #77 posted 12/26/09 12:07pm

JesusFreak

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...if the bra fits
"Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time."
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Reply #78 posted 12/26/09 12:26pm

2elijah

babynoz said:

And let me just add that when we talk about black music from a CULTURAL perspective it does not start or stop with R&B and hip hop. There's blues, jazz, soul, reggae, funk, etc. The same diversity one would expect to find in any other culture.

Slightly off topic but I'm just sayin'.



Not exactly off topic babynoz, it seems some people don't understand the term "black music" because they don't understand the cultural aspects of it within the many "cultures" of the black community, and so here many of us go again, having to explain another aspect of a culture that has value within the Black community as a whole. Now although blacks are not joined at the hip, like the same types of music, and in fact are "individuals", some people need to understand that various forms of music within the black community does exist, and has for years, where one form of it, gave birth to another.
[Edited 12/26/09 12:37pm]
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Reply #79 posted 12/26/09 12:29pm

bboy87

avatar

lotusflw3r said:

there are many black artists that are far more deserving of this title.

MJ actually comes to mind. could he play an instrument/write his own stuff? (by that i mean fully produce his own recordings? - no.).

he was as much a product of the music industry as Milli Vanilli really - he was told what to do when and where - unlike prince who i believe has been in control of his own musical destiny.

Prince has also given a lot of other musical people a big helping hand up the ladder. MJ hasn't. except his own family LOL.

Conclusion - MJ destroyed black music.


....

Strongly disagree and the bolded statement is very inaccurate
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #80 posted 12/26/09 12:29pm

bboy87

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Harlepolis said:

Why is there such an opposition against the term "black music"? And please don't say there's no such thing wink

I don't either... neutral
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #81 posted 12/26/09 12:38pm

Harlepolis

babynoz said:

Harlepolis said:

Why is there such an opposition against the term "black music"? And please don't say there's no such thing wink


I'd like to know that myself. It's taking political correctness too far IMO.

No one would question it if we were talking about the music of other cultures, Japanese, Indian, etc. and it irks me when people always gotta question when we talk about black music from a cultural perspective.


highfive

Black artists influenced a WILD spectrum of musical styles that covered almost everything you hear today, be it mainstream or underground(good & bad), YES universally speaking.

Alot of artists(and their fans) don't realize that the music they made/listen to are directly or indirectly influenced by black muiscians. Folks can agree/disagree all they want, but I know THEY KNOW its true.

So,,,I can understand their frustration when they read the term "black music" because it kills any sense of ownership(OH YES, people do own their music contrary to popular belief,,,since we're talking about the cultural perspective) wink The thing that gets me though, is when some folks deem it too "limiting",,,,,selective memory is a funny thing lol
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Reply #82 posted 12/26/09 12:55pm

2elijah

Isabell said:

I need a definition of "Black Music", because being Black and making music doesn't qualify the result as Black Music.

Admitting Prince belongs to Black Music (to me classifying him into one category is too restrictive), I can't see how he managed to single-handedly destroy BM...


How can Black music be "restrictive" when it consists of various forms of rock, jazz, gospel, swing, boogie-woogie, funk, , r&b, calypso, soca, reggae, blues, etc....everything you hear out there today lending off each other. It all depends on how its presented by the artists. The thing is, some people tend to think black music is just r&b, rap and hip-hop, when in fact all were born out of the earlier forms of music. I notice that many tend to label many black artists in those 3 categories, without researching the historical culture of black music and all it has offered and become.
[Edited 12/26/09 13:03pm]
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Reply #83 posted 12/26/09 1:07pm

Harlepolis

2elijah said:

Isabell said:

I need a definition of "Black Music", because being Black and making music doesn't qualify the result as Black Music.

Admitting Prince belongs to Black Music (to me classifying him into one category is too restrictive), I can't see how he managed to single-handedly destroy BM...


How can Black music be "restrictive" when it consists of various forms of rock, jazz, gospel, swing, boogie-woogie, funk, , r&b, calypso, soca, reggae, blues, etc....everything you hear out there today lending off each other. It all depends on how its presented by the artists. The thing is, some people tend to think black music is just r&b, rap and hip-hop, when in fact all were born out of the earlier forms of music. I notice that many tend to label many black artists in those 3 categories, without researching the historical culture of black music and all it has offered and become.
[Edited 12/26/09 13:03pm]


One word: laziness.
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Reply #84 posted 12/26/09 1:07pm

WaterInYourBat
h

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LOL....People keep saying how rappers are the problem since they are viewed here as being such "unreal artists who can't sing," but the same can be said for a good 85% of Prince's side-project proteges. lol

The problem is not Hip-Hop. Rapping is spoken poetry, and that's not the cause of the actual issue of this topic, which is how certain people can be tagged and viewed as "singers" when they seriously are not vocalists. Rappers know they can't sing. That's why they rap, lol. Maybe if Vanity 6 had been rapping verses instead, over Hip-Hop style beats, they would have appeared to actually be musically talented, lol.

To say Hip-Hop is a frivolous genre of music is absurd to me. Sure, I don't like sampling either. But when rappers create their own original melodies with meaningful lyrics, the music is indeed "real art," just like James Brown's is.
"You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Water can nourish me, but water can also carry me. Water has magic laws." - JCVD
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Reply #85 posted 12/26/09 1:13pm

2elijah

WaterInYourBath said:

LOL....People keep saying how rappers are the problem since they are viewed here as being such "unreal artists who can't sing," but the same can be said for a good 85% of Prince's side-project proteges. lol

The problem is not Hip-Hop. Rapping is spoken poetry, and that's not the cause of the actual issue of this topic, which is how certain people can be tagged and viewed as "singers" when they seriously are not vocalists. Rappers know they can't sing. That's why they rap, lol. Maybe if Vanity 6 had been rapping verses instead, over Hip-Hop style beats, they would have appeared to actually be musically talented, lol.

To say Hip-Hop is a frivolous genre of music is absurd to me. Sure, I don't like sampling either. But when rappers create their own original melodies with meaningful lyrics, the music is indeed "real art," just like James Brown's is.


There's a difference between "good rap" and "nonsense and BS". If it is a rap about a social/political issue to raise awareness, like the "Last Poets" of the "60s" or even "Gil Scott Heron" type messages, then I can give the artist the respect they deserves, but when you start referring to women as "ho's" and forget you have a mother who happens to be "female", then you get no respect from me to deserve to call yourself an "artist".
[Edited 12/26/09 13:18pm]
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Reply #86 posted 12/26/09 1:13pm

babynoz

Harlepolis said:

2elijah said:



How can Black music be "restrictive" when it consists of various forms of rock, jazz, gospel, swing, boogie-woogie, funk, , r&b, calypso, soca, reggae, blues, etc....everything you hear out there today lending off each other. It all depends on how its presented by the artists. The thing is, some people tend to think black music is just r&b, rap and hip-hop, when in fact all were born out of the earlier forms of music. I notice that many tend to label many black artists in those 3 categories, without researching the historical culture of black music and all it has offered and become.
[Edited 12/26/09 13:03pm]


One word: laziness.



nod
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #87 posted 12/26/09 1:15pm

BklynBabe

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who said Black music was destroyed?

Music in general sucks balls these days with its lack of substance, but that's because you have this teen based ADHD type of society that can't pay attention to anything deep or meaning lasting more than 4 minutes!
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Reply #88 posted 12/26/09 1:16pm

2elijah

Harlepolis said:

2elijah said:



How can Black music be "restrictive" when it consists of various forms of rock, jazz, gospel, swing, boogie-woogie, funk, , r&b, calypso, soca, reggae, blues, etc....everything you hear out there today lending off each other. It all depends on how its presented by the artists. The thing is, some people tend to think black music is just r&b, rap and hip-hop, when in fact all were born out of the earlier forms of music. I notice that many tend to label many black artists in those 3 categories, without researching the historical culture of black music and all it has offered and become.
[Edited 12/26/09 13:03pm]


One word: laziness.


Absolutely.
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Reply #89 posted 12/26/09 1:22pm

babynoz

WaterInYourBath said:

LOL....People keep saying how rappers are the problem since they are viewed here as being such "unreal artists who can't sing," but the same can be said for a good 85% of Prince's side-project proteges. lol

The problem is not Hip-Hop. Rapping is spoken poetry, and that's not the cause of the actual issue of this topic, which is how certain people can be tagged and viewed as "singers" when they seriously are not vocalists. Rappers know they can't sing. That's why they rap, lol. Maybe if Vanity 6 had been rapping verses instead, over Hip-Hop style beats, they would have appeared to actually be musically talented, lol.

To say Hip-Hop is a frivolous genre of music is absurd to me. Sure, I don't like sampling either. But when rappers create their own original melodies with meaningful lyrics, the music is indeed "real art," just like James Brown's is.


I wouldn't condemn the entire genre but the current trend of producing and saturating the airwaves with substandard hip hop and r&b to the exclusion of everything else is depressing. Consumers who settle for it bear some responsibility also.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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