Graycap23 said:

The Beatles were clearly influenced by Elvis, for one. It's not me just making it up out of thin air...look it up. It's Rock and Roll history.

Graycap23 said:

Again, I understand this and agree. However, this doesn't detract from Elvis being influential. Yes, people should have gotten hip through Chuck Berry and such, but it took a white kid in the 50's to spread rock and roll all around. Not saying it's just...it's just the way it was.

skywalker said:

What SONGS should I be checking?

2elijah said:

And it gets back on topic right there.
Since the beginning of the "rock" era, music hasn't changed too much.
Since the beginning of Prince's career he has been accused by many including his very own Joni Michelle as not being original and just taking liberally from different influences.
So if Prince is an amalgam of everybody that came before him, how can he be responsible for a sound and recording methodology that has basically there before him. The rock era is all about an amalgam and evolution from the very beginning. It's chain of events.
Most of us are sick of rap, but in the 90's the Beastie Boys, like Elvis took a sound from the black community mixed it with their own sensibilities and took it where Eric B and Rakim couldn't. Now white folks love Hip Hop as much as anybody else now.
You all have made very good points, and it was fun, and its great to finally read about the passion people have for music here for a change.
]
[Edited 1/3/10 20:50pm]

Graycap23 said:

You shouldn't be looking up a list of songs. You should google The Quarrymen and read what that's all about. I'm done. This thread is way off topic. Sorry. If you want to open a new thread on prince.org we can discuss it there.

[Edited 1/3/10 16:19pm]

Hummmm.....so nothing that I can HEAR?
I thought so.

Graycap23 said:

2 things:

1. Influence can and often does extend beyond sonics. Style, attitude, swagger, hair. Prince doesn't really sound like Hendrix on guitar, but he sure the hell was influenced by him. Looking beyond the fact that Elvis was the 1st bonafide Rock Star (which is simply a measure of fame)....

2. As has been said, Elvis Presley's sound was Little Richard's sound and Chuck Berry's sound first. He was a white kid doing it. You can hear their sound (it's the roots of rock and roll) throughout popular music, and you can hear Elvis. It's the two and four. It's the bass. It's elemental. Again, you can ignore or deny it if you want, but that doesn't make it false. Seriously, The Quarrymen. They are The Beatles. They are 50's rock-a-billy and have a definite Elvis influence. However, I realize that is a lot a work to do, so you could just go back to the original Lennon quote I gave you where he states that without Elvis there would not have been The Beatles.
[Edited 1/3/10 17:08pm]
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/wa...zibZ0OHDIM[Edited 1/3/10 17:31pm]

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related



[Edited 1/3/10 17:34pm]

hollywooddove said:

Co-sign (bolded text)

skywalker said:

i'm not in disagreement with you regarding your overview of elvis' influence on the beatles regarding a moment in time in rock n' roll's history. your references are not without merit.

however if one chooses to dig a little deeper into the yesteryears of the subject at hand one can see the music of the american black culture was the major influence to the roots of rock n roll.
the pioneering of this rudimentary and "innovative" sound in music was further influenced by the continued amalgamation of many other races. many musical artist and writers have added to and enhanced the original style. thus the root sounds of r&b along with the afore mentioned musical additions is what we today call pop/rock (earlier known as rhythm and blues then/now known as rock and roll.) the original and earlier styles of rhythm and blues played a major part in influencing elvis presley as a performer, he inturn influenced the beatles and on and on.

historical prelude to elvis:
1946
"that's all right, mama".
this song was written and originally recorded by blues singer Arthur Crudup in 1946. elvis' version was recorded as "that's alright" in July 1954.

1947
"good rockin tonight"
roy brown pioneering rhythm & blues singer, songwriter and musician writes and cuts "good rockin' tonight" in texas. when one draws up a the list of the r&b pioneers who exerted an influence on the development of rock & roll, respectfully place singer roy brown's name near its very top. his records waxing of "good rockin' tonight" was immediately ridden to the peak of the R&B charts by shouter wynonie harris.
subsequently the song was covered by elvis using the same title, and it was the first single released on sun records by elvis presley. elvis' version was recorded September 11, 1954.




* anyway, the subject of this thread is about prince. so i say, i disagree with any assertions that prince added to the demise of black music. prince has been a major influence in the evolution in the sound of today's music and will continue to be so for many up-and coming new artist of the future.

imo, technology has been a major pitfall for prince in the eyes of many of his followers, however we should all look around and witness how technology is destroying much of our creativity and livelihood in this our present day and age. perchance prince like many of us are victims of technology in it's many forms, and maybe he like many of us are buying into it without looking into the future of it's destructive force. yet i feel prince has displayed his genius in using the tech-no-tools available to him with an unmatched quality.
i feel prince will be emulated and copied for years to come. my only hope is that the new artist will once again use the real musical instruments instead of the many synthesizers that imitate various musical and instruemtal sounds.

lastly:
ask yourself how many people do you know that are without jobs due to the treacherous and greed filled technopyres that are consumming jobs and livelihoods? i feel that technology is destroying more than music.
[Edited 1/4/10 9:22am]

lafleurdove said:

While technology has solved many "old" problems it has created "new" ones. I don't consider Prince or other pioneers use of technology as ruinous to music. It's those who've "dumbed down" music because they lack little musical or singing ability. It would be foolish to claim Stevie Wonder or Herbie Hancock responsible for destroying music because of their synth. use. The same goes for Prince. Warren Buffett said it best, first comes the innovator, then comes the imitators, then come the idiots.
[Edited 1/4/10 4:45am]

NONSENSE said:

i agree with your opinion and (mistakenly) did not mean to imply that prince was ruinous to music. your words said it better in that the copy-mongers are the ones that are doing the major damage to the high techno art of music.
[Edited 1/4/10 9:37am]

skywalker said:

Lol.....no shit Sherlock.

Graycap23 said:

[There's no need for this to devolve into petty namecalling and bickering. Keep it on topic and civil please. - Mars23]

is it too late to

Mars23 said:

Particularly as Skywalker never ever denied the origin of Elvis' sound... no one will two fully functional ears will, I suppose.

Look, I can 100 % understand that the black community is pissed off by Elvis getting credit for bringing up a musical style to the masses which he never invented, to start with, but which he compiled, at best, from his influences.

However, he took those sounds out into people's living rooms who never ever would have bought a Chuck Berry or Little Richard record (sad but true). He did this compilation of influences on a high and professional level, and to call it "stealing" is a bit too much for me (Did Elvis ever violate any copyright?). If that's not sufficient to give him any credit, in your opinion, then that is your choice. But if you deny that he was huge back then and is still respected by many today, then you can't be serious.

Oh, and by the way, the tricky thing with "influences" is that you can't always prove them from the obvious...

EmancipationLover said:

So in your opinion did Prince do more to destroy black music than any other figure of his time? That's the topic.

babynoz said:

Clear answer: No!

EmancipationLover said:

"good rockin tonight" written and recorded by roy brown 1946



"good rockin tonight" covered by elvis presley 1954




that's alright mama" written and recorded by arthur crudup 1946



"that's alright mama" covered by elvis presley 1954


i've posted some tangible music history here just for you. take a listen.

there's no denying on my part that elvis did what he did to broaden sounds and styles of music at the beginning of his career. however little was done to expose his listening audience to the orginators of rhythm and blues, a.k.a rock and roll that he was copying. elvis exposed the generation of his time to the music of black americans from the south, thanks to sam phillips. elvis was a brave pioneer with a great rhythm and blues sounding voice. plus i will admit imo he was very good looking.

personally i for one do not like to use the term "stolen," when it comes to this issue. however, it would be nice to find out or discover if the writers of these songs got any mention by elvis presley during his lengthy career, or if he ever gave any tribute to them as people he admired enough to copy their sounds.
as for arthur crudup and roy brown, most likely during the time the songs were written and recorded, these two writers probably shook their heads in disappointment when they witnessed the money and fame elvis garnered from their musical creativity. i would imagine they felt that they had been totally ripped off.
there is no information (and i am still searching,) as to whether or not arthur crudup or roy brown received any royalties from the large amount of money elvis presley made from his live performances and recordings while (early on) he was obviously emulating and copying the vocal sounds and rhythmic styles of these two great men.

at least when prince did the recording of "crimson and clover" by tommy and the shondells, all business was taken care of and no one was an alledged victim of "that word."
prince has done much to give tribute to others when he has done covers of their songs.
so "NO," come to think of it, prince has not contributed to the destruction of black music, he is also a great pioneer-----of our time.
[Edited 1/6/10 22:00pm]