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Printablei figured this little excert out of a mag from the 80s hit around the topic...
 "Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time." | |
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JesusFreak said: i figured this little excert out of a mag from the 80s hit around the topic...
In that article, it basically sounds like Prince was stating, there was more to black music than (r&b-what most black groups and artists was playing at that time) and what radio stations, and record labels were promoting from black artists to consumers. Prince apparently was bold enough to be more daring than other artists, and showed them there was more to black music, than just the usual "r&b" sound, consumers were getting from what the labels were feeding to black consumers and other non-black consumers in general. [Edited 12/28/09 18:58pm] | |
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violetblues said: Harlepolis said: "Agree/Disagree" what the hell am I thinking?
Anyway I found this post to be very intersting, it was shared to me by a fellow org pal(who posts in Okayplayer, where he found it). Disregard it if its a repost. First off most people on here know I think Prince is one of the greatest artists of the past 50 years. I can't think of anyone that has made as many songs that I have enjoyed as much as I have his. If I listed my top 10 concerts ever, the 6 Prince shows I've seen would all be there. That said ..... Prince was NOT good for black music people. I think a lot of what made him great also made him destructive. His creativity and confidence turned him into a sort of musical demigod. He didn't need a band to create and record with because in his mind nobody could play his music as well as he could. He didn't use background singers for the most part for the same reason. Prince was the show, standing above all others and he wanted to make sure you didn't forget that. Now of course Prince wasn't the first artist to feel this way. But he was the first that had the technology to isolate himself creatively the way he did. When you have the talent and ideas Prince did at the time, this isn't a bad thing in and of itself. The problem is, it inspired less creative and original people to follow in his footsteps. The end result was a parade of mediocre singer/songwriter/producer wannabes that would have been much better severed (creatively) being part of a larger collective. Just because you can make music by yourself doesn't mean you should. Of course existing bands also took note of what Prince was doing. They started cutting the "fat" and in doing so, knocked over the first domino in death of the black band. As I said, Prince wasn't the first artist to have an ego. But he was the first to go to the lengths he did to keep from being shown up. One need to look no further than his first two side projects ... The Time and Vanity 6.... for prove of his obsessive narcissism. Flyte Tyme by everyone's account was the baddest band in Minneapolis. So what did Prince do when he signed them? Fired their lead singer (Alexander O'Neal) and replaced them with his drummer friend Morris Day. The fact Morris couldn't sing meant nothing to Prince. As a matter of fact in his mind this was a good thing. This meant one less threat to Prince. But even this wasn't enough for him. Prince went into the studio and recorded almost all (if not all, there are various opinions on this) the music and background vocals for the first Time album. Think about this for a minute. You sign a band and then record an album under their name with your friend who you made lead singer. But that didn't matter to P. He was selling an alternate image of himself with the group. He wasn't producing in a way that would bring out the creativity in his artist, he was acting as a puppet master with his hand guiding every sight and sound associate with them. They weren't artist, they were props. Never was this truer than with his next project Vanity 6. Never before in black music history had there been a group that had this much style over substance. None of the girls could sing ...not even in a serviceable way really ... play any instruments or even dance. With Vanity Prince created the video chick before the video era even really kicked off. Once again, Prince was the star and his project was his window dressing. With Vanity 6 Prince proved you could market and sell records even though the "artist" had little to no talent. It would be foolish to think the industry didn't take note of this. This knowledge along with the emergence of the music video formed a powerful one two punch that marginalized vocal talent. The interesting thing in all of this is how Prince slowly reverted back to more "traditional" ways as his creative tank started to run dry. Now days he loves to talk about "real music" and sing the praises of the funk and jazz stars of the past. He basks in the spotlight as the symbol of a by gone era. The last of his kind. And once again Prince is the show. And once again, Prince got exactly what he wanted. Well? 
[Edited 12/25/09 16:10pm] A little myopic, especially when referencing artists know mainly only to the fam base. Mock artists produced by either a studio or a label or some other talented writer or producer is nothing new to black or white music, To me It's more about fans having the obsessive tendencies that will have them look up in the sky and see their Idol in clouds, toast, tortillas and ink blots. Prince's scope of influence in music is good, but again, if anybody wants to propose any argument about someone's impact on modern black music, stick to more plausible candidates such as MJ, Stevie or Elvis. [Edited 12/28/09 18:50pm] I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. | |
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Harlepolis said: violetblues said: A little myopic, especially when referencing artists know mainly only to the fam base. Mock artists produced by either a studio or a label or some other talented writer or producer is nothing new to black or white music, To me It's more about fans having the obsessive tendencies that will have them look up in the sky and see their Idol in clouds, toast, tortillas and ink blots. Prince's scope of influence in music is good, but again, if anybody wants to propose any argument about someone's impact on modern black music, stick to more plausible candidates such as MJ, Stevie or Elvis. [Edited 12/28/09 18:50pm] I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. Doesnt matter, Elvis had a great impact by re-appropriating it and repackaging to a wider audience, an achievement MJ kinda did in reverse [Edited 12/28/09 19:01pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: violetblues said: A little myopic, especially when referencing artists know mainly only to the fam base. Mock artists produced by either a studio or a label or some other talented writer or producer is nothing new to black or white music, To me It's more about fans having the obsessive tendencies that will have them look up in the sky and see their Idol in clouds, toast, tortillas and ink blots. Prince's scope of influence in music is good, but again, if anybody wants to propose any argument about someone's impact on modern black music, stick to more plausible candidates such as MJ, Stevie or Elvis. [Edited 12/28/09 18:50pm] I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. Exactly. He certainly wasn't an influence to black audiences, when his performance style came from black artists--something that was already part of the black music culture. He was an influence to white audiences, because he took the styles and music of black performers, even frequented black clubs during the days of segregation, to learn singing styles and moves of black performers, and brought it into white society, and ran with it and made it his own, as if he originally created the style. There wasn't any other white performer that had Elvis' style at the time, so Elvis was smart to take the advantage of the opportunity. From what I read in JB's autobiography, Elvis frequented black clubs to learn the culture of black music styles, and the dance moves of black artists. [Edited 12/28/09 19:06pm] | |
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violetblues said: Harlepolis said: I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. Doesnt matter, Elvis had a great impact by re-appropriating it and repackaging to a wider audience [Edited 12/28/09 18:59pm] Then why the claim that he made an impact on black music when he gets a lil' or no mention from the black artists that came after him?
I agree though, he took the genre to mainstream. | |
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2elijah said: Harlepolis said: I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. Exactly. He certainly wasn't an influence to black audiences, when his performance style came from black artists--something that was already part of the black music culture. He was an influence to white audiences, because he took the styles and music of black performers, even frequented black clubs during the days of segregation, to learn singing styles and moves of black performers, and brought it into white society, as if he created it. there wasn't any other white performer that had Elvis' style at the time. From what I read in JB's autobiograhpy, Elvis frequented black clubs to learn the culture of black music styles, and the dance moves of black artists. [Edited 12/28/09 19:04pm] I think people feed into the "King of rock & roll" bandwagon when in fact, all of his persona/mannerism were carbon copy of the black artists of his time,,,,,worked for his favor and the rest of history was forgotton, true to form. [Edited 12/28/09 19:06pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: 2elijah said: Exactly. He certainly wasn't an influence to black audiences, when his performance style came from black artists--something that was already part of the black music culture. He was an influence to white audiences, because he took the styles and music of black performers, even frequented black clubs during the days of segregation, to learn singing styles and moves of black performers, and brought it into white society, as if he created it. there wasn't any other white performer that had Elvis' style at the time. From what I read in JB's autobiograhpy, Elvis frequented black clubs to learn the culture of black music styles, and the dance moves of black artists. [Edited 12/28/09 19:04pm] I think people feed into the "King of rock & roll" bandwagon when in fact, all of his persona/mannerism were carbon copy of the black artists of his time,,,,,worked for his favor and the rest of history was forgotton, true to form. Exactly, he had a little bit of of a few black rock n' roll artists early in his career, i.e. Chuck Berry/Little Richard and later down the road, some of James Brown's style, along with some black gospel singers all wrapped up in one. [Edited 12/28/09 19:09pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: violetblues said: Doesnt matter, Elvis had a great impact by re-appropriating it and repackaging to a wider audience [Edited 12/28/09 18:59pm] Then why the claim that he made an impact on black music when he gets a lil' or no mention from the black artists that came after him?
I agree though, he took the genre to mainstream. lol, did anyone have to? It goes unsaid. Its more about artists striving to achieve commercial success by crossing beyond race to garner a wider audience. Anyhow, its cute to only look at whats immediately in front of you to decide what was in reality a wide ranging chain of events. [Edited 12/28/09 19:15pm] | |
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2elijah said: Harlepolis said: I think people feed into the "King of rock & roll" bandwagon when in fact, all of his persona/mannerism were carbon copy of the black artists of his time,,,,,worked for his favor and the rest of history was forgotton, true to form. Exactly, he had a little bit of of a few black rock n' roll artists early in his career, i.e. Chuck Berry/Little Richard and later down the road, some of James Brown's style, along with some black gospel singers all wrapped up in one. [Edited 12/28/09 19:09pm] "Repackaged" indeed
Mind you, I don't knock folks for diggin him,,,,,but I can't help raising my eyebrow when they say he's an influence on BLACK ARTISTS of all people? 
They have better sources to learn from; Elvis' teachers. | |
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Harlepolis said: 2elijah said: Exactly, he had a little bit of of a few black rock n' roll artists early in his career, i.e. Chuck Berry/Little Richard and later down the road, some of James Brown's style, along with some black gospel singers all wrapped up in one. [Edited 12/28/09 19:09pm] "Repackaged" indeed
Mind you, I don't knock folks for diggin him,,,,,but I can't help raising my eyebrow when they say he's an influence on BLACK ARTISTS of all people?
They have better sources to learn from; Elvis' teachers. (Bolded part) Agree. [Edited 12/28/09 19:15pm] | |
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violetblues said: Harlepolis said: Then why the claim that he made an impact on black music when he gets a lil' or no mention from the black artists that came after him?
I agree though, he took the genre to mainstream. lol, did anyone have to? It goes unsaid. Its more about artists striving to achieve commercial success by crossing beyond race to garner a wider audience. Anyhow, its cute to only look whats immediately in front of you to decide what was in reality a wide ranging chain of effects. This topic is not about commercial crossover,,,,its about MUSICAL influence, and they didn't have to say so because they know where he drew his,,,ahem inspiration from,,,,which also goes unsaid. [Edited 12/28/09 19:19pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: violetblues said: lol, did anyone have to? It goes unsaid. Its more about artists striving to achieve commercial success by crossing beyond race to garner a wider audience. Anyhow, its cute to only look whats immediately in front of you to decide what was in reality a wide ranging chain of effects. This topic is not about commercial crossover,,,,its about MUSICAL influence, and they didn't have to say so because they know where he drew his,,,ahem inspiration from,,,,which also goes unsaid. [Edited 12/28/09 19:19pm] I think they go hand in hand. success and impact. Anyhow, i can see where Elvis takes this off topic and into a much broader impact of black music in general. | |
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violetblues said: Harlepolis said: Then why the claim that he made an impact on black music when he gets a lil' or no mention from the black artists that came after him?
I agree though, he took the genre to mainstream. lol, did anyone have to? It goes unsaid. Its more about artists striving to achieve commercial success by crossing beyond race to garner a wider audience. Anyhow, its cute to only look at whats immediately in front of you to decide what was in reality a wide ranging chain of events. [Edited 12/28/09 19:15pm] But the original poster already framed the discussion by saying "figures of his time". Therefore, if we're staying on topic and within that context we shouldn't include Elvis. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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JesusFreak said: i figured this little excert out of a mag from the 80s hit around the topic...
He namechecked WAR! 
It's clear that he saw himself mainly as a challenging force rather than a destructive one. That's why some of us questioned whether the good of his impact overall ultimately outweighs the negative. We have yet to recieve a definitive answer to that question. I chuckled when he said that he's something else...he damn sure is, LOL! [Edited 12/28/09 19:39pm] Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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babynoz said: violetblues said: lol, did anyone have to? It goes unsaid. Its more about artists striving to achieve commercial success by crossing beyond race to garner a wider audience. Anyhow, its cute to only look at whats immediately in front of you to decide what was in reality a wide ranging chain of events. [Edited 12/28/09 19:15pm] But the original poster already framed the discussion by saying "figures of his time". Therefore, if we're staying on topic and within that context we shouldn't include Elvis. okay okay, you guys right about me interjecting Elvis into this. | |
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violetblues said: babynoz said: But the original poster already framed the discussion by saying "figures of his time". Therefore, if we're staying on topic and within that context we shouldn't include Elvis. okay okay, you guys right about me interjecting Elvis into this. Kapow! (j/k) | |
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violetblues said: babynoz said: But the original poster already framed the discussion by saying "figures of his time". Therefore, if we're staying on topic and within that context we shouldn't include Elvis. okay okay, you guys right about me interjecting Elvis into this. 'Tis cool...you still on the P&R tag team. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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Harlepolis said: I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. Damn! Game over !
Classic ! |
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Harlepolis said: I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. .....and NEVER will. | |
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Harlepolis said: 2elijah said: Exactly. He certainly wasn't an influence to black audiences, when his performance style came from black artists--something that was already part of the black music culture. He was an influence to white audiences, because he took the styles and music of black performers, even frequented black clubs during the days of segregation, to learn singing styles and moves of black performers, and brought it into white society, as if he created it. there wasn't any other white performer that had Elvis' style at the time. From what I read in JB's autobiograhpy, Elvis frequented black clubs to learn the culture of black music styles, and the dance moves of black artists. [Edited 12/28/09 19:04pm] I think people feed into the "King of rock & roll" bandwagon when in fact, all of his persona/mannerism were carbon copy of the black artists of his time,,,,,worked for his favor and the rest of history was forgotton, true to form. [Edited 12/28/09 19:06pm] Like MJ and the Moonwalk . . . . I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. | |
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SUPRMAN said: Harlepolis said: I think people feed into the "King of rock & roll" bandwagon when in fact, all of his persona/mannerism were carbon copy of the black artists of his time,,,,,worked for his favor and the rest of history was forgotton, true to form. [Edited 12/28/09 19:06pm] Like MJ and the Moonwalk . . . . MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk, and I for one don't feed into his hype even though I love him. Nice try  | |
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Harlepolis said: SUPRMAN said: Like MJ and the Moonwalk . . . . MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk, and I for one don't feed into his hype even though I love him. Nice try As far as I can tell, the moon walk was actually a walk against high wind that mimes would use when they would pop open an umbrella and pull themselves back as though the wind were dragging them. Been used a long long time. I also understand Michael was fascinated with mime, and you can see the influence of it greatly in his dance. He did expose the world to doing these steps to music, which on the day that he did that, wasn't it the AMA? anyway he was very brave. That could have went over great, as it did, or extremely comic, and could have destroyed him. We are all so full of  here | |
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Harlepolis said: SUPRMAN said: Like MJ and the Moonwalk . . . . MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk, and I for one don't feed into his hype even though I love him. Nice try Exactly, it was Jeffrey Daniel from Shalamar that taught MJ how to do the Moonwalk, but when MJ did it on the Motown 25th year anniversary show, people were amazed when they saw him do it, and from then fans associated the "Moonwalk" dance with MJ. [Edited 12/29/09 6:20am] | |
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hollywooddove said: Harlepolis said: MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk, and I for one don't feed into his hype even though I love him. Nice try As far as I can tell, the moon walk was actually a walk against high wind that mimes would use when they would pop open an umbrella and pull themselves back as though the wind were dragging them. Been used a long long time. I also understand Michael was fascinated with mime, and you can see the influence of it greatly in his dance. He did expose the world to doing these steps to music, which on the day that he did that, wasn't it the AMA? anyway he was very brave. That could have went over great, as it did, or extremely comic, and could have destroyed him. Jeffrey Daniel, from Shalamar taught MJ the moonwalk. http://www.jeffreydaniel.com/ Here's a clip of Jeffrey Daniel early in his career doing the Moonwalk. He also has snippets of MJ in there: [Edited 12/29/09 6:32am] | |
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Graycap23 said: Harlepolis said: I've yet to read about a black artist citing Elvis as an influence. .....and NEVER will. Michael Jackson did. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Michael Jackson did. MJ also has said James Brown was his influence, so what does that tell you? | |
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2elijah said: Harlepolis said: MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk, and I for one don't feed into his hype even though I love him. Nice try Exactly, it was Jeffrey Daniel from Shalamar that taught MJ how to do the Moonwalk, but when MJ did it on the Motown 25th year anniversary show, people were amazed when they saw him do it, and from then fans associated the "Moonwalk" dance with MJ. [Edited 12/29/09 6:20am] The Motown show was the first time white people had ever seen it. Black people were doing it down here as far back as 1979 and 1980 and it was called The Glide. As for Jeffrey Daniels, you should see the "Solar Galaxy Of Stars Live" DVD that has concerts from The Whispers, Lakeside, Dynasty, and Shalamar from the year 1980. Jeffrey Daniels did The Glide better than anyone I've ever seen do it. He did it backwards, forwards, and side to side. On their very next album after that show, they did even the song "Pop Along Kid" about Jeffrey's dancing. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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2elijah said: vainandy said: Michael Jackson did. MJ also has said James Brown was his influence, so what does that tell you? And Peter Pan influenced him too. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: The Motown show was the first time white people had ever seen it. Black people were doing it down here as far back as 1979 and 1980 and it was called The Glide. As for Jeffrey Daniels, you should see the "Solar Galaxy Of Stars Live" DVD that has concerts from The Whispers, Lakeside, Dynasty, and Shalamar from the year 1980. Jeffrey Daniels did The Glide better than anyone I've ever seen do it. He did it backwards, forwards, and side to side. On their very next album after that show, they did even the song "Pop Along Kid" about Jeffrey's dancing. Jeffrey Daniel (no "s" at the end of his name) was moonwalking when he was a dancer on Soul Train with Jody Watley. [Edited 12/29/09 7:03am] | |
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