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PrintableGraycap23 said: hollywooddove said: Elvis infulenced every artist out there, no way he couldnt. Just like MJ and Prince have also. They were so big in the business they left their fingerprints everywhere. Elvis never needs be cited. He's like gravity. Lol.....B.S. Major B.S.   [Edited 1/2/10 11:45am] | |
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2elijah said:[quote] hollywooddove said: Elvis infulenced every artist out there, no way he couldnt. Just like MJ and Prince have also. They were so big in the business they left their fingerprints everywhere. Elvis never needs be cited. He's like gravity. Oh, for goodness sakes, somebody stop the madness and the BS. No way in the soil of this earth did Elvis influence every artist out there. He may have influenced some, but no way will should he be given all the credit for a style he copied big time, from other artists. Come on now, let's give credit where credit is due. Elvis' style was copied from earlier black artists, and his influence was mostly on other white artists that tried to copy what he copied, after that. That was the trend back in that day, when many white artists tried to mock the styles of black artists, because that music was not being accepted in a segregated society until Elvis copied the singing music and dancing styles of black artists, because there really wasn't any other well-known, young white artist trying to do that at that time. It is not like Elvis didn't appreciate learning it from them, but the fact is, he did. He introduced it to white society in his own way. Like many orgers mentioned several times on this thread, the black music that was heard during the 40s and 50s were called "race" music, and all sorts of other names. If anybody was an influence it was Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and James Brown's music. Chuck Berry and Little Richard influenced Elvis, at least get the facts straight. If MJ called Elvis one of his influences, that's because Elvis copied his style from earlier black artists. Point blank. He didn't even know certain sounds of black music, until he made it his personal business to visit black night clubs, (and that was according to James Brown who confirmed in his book that Elvis inquired about certain types of music sung within the black community, and that he visited black nightclubs to learn the style) in a segregated society at the time, where black artists were not allowed to walk in the door of white clubs, but Elvis, being white, was allowed to frequent black night clubs, because there were no laws barring him from entering any black business or other venue. To this day, in my opinion, Chuck Berry and Little Richard do not receive the amount of credit they deserve, for being two of the major influences of rock and roll. Chuck Berry was an influence to Bill Haley, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, Grateful Dead, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Peter Tosh, and a host of other artists. His reputation and influence on many artists speaks for itself and he could put a stamp on that. Without a doubt Elvis copied black artists. Without a doubt Elvis gets more credit than he probably deserves. Without a doubt Chuck Berry and Little Richard get less than they deserve. That said: Elvis and his music reached ALOT more people than Little Richard or Chuck Berry did. Yes, he did what Berry and Little Richard was doing, but he was white and it was the 1950's. Because of that he was more accessible to the masses, he was (somewhat) more accepted by parents of teenagers, he was (as you said) allowed to go places others couldn't. The man and society didn't hold him back. That doesn't make Elvis more talented, more original, or a even THE pioneer. However, popularity is s key to being influential. At the time, Elvis was a white guy doing black music. It took all that great stuff that was being done by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. and put it right in white America's living room. He popularized (and bastardized?) the art from and brought it to the masses and a massive/global audience. That cannot be denied and should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even James gave Elvis props when it was due. Bottom line: Only two other artists/groups have matched Elvis in terms of sheer universal sales and global recognition: The Beatles and Michael Jackson. This is not an endorsement of Elvis, just a bit of historical perspective. To say Elvis isn't hugely influential on pop music is as ignorant as not seeing Little Richard or Chuck Berry's influence on Elvis. [Edited 1/2/10 12:29pm] "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said:[quote] 2elijah said: Oh, for goodness sakes, somebody stop the madness and the BS. No way in the soil of this earth did Elvis influence every artist out there. He may have influenced some, but no way will should he be given all the credit for a style he copied big time, from other artists. Come on now, let's give credit where credit is due. Elvis' style was copied from earlier black artists, and his influence was mostly on other white artists that tried to copy what he copied, after that. That was the trend back in that day, when many white artists tried to mock the styles of black artists, because that music was not being accepted in a segregated society until Elvis copied the singing music and dancing styles of black artists, because there really wasn't any other well-known, young white artist trying to do that at that time. It is not like Elvis didn't appreciate learning it from them, but the fact is, he did. He introduced it to white society in his own way. Like many orgers mentioned several times on this thread, the black music that was heard during the 40s and 50s were called "race" music, and all sorts of other names. If anybody was an influence it was Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and James Brown's music. Chuck Berry and Little Richard influenced Elvis, at least get the facts straight. If MJ called Elvis one of his influences, that's because Elvis copied his style from earlier black artists. Point blank. He didn't even know certain sounds of black music, until he made it his personal business to visit black night clubs, (and that was according to James Brown who confirmed in his book that Elvis inquired about certain types of music sung within the black community, and that he visited black nightclubs to learn the style) in a segregated society at the time, where black artists were not allowed to walk in the door of white clubs, but Elvis, being white, was allowed to frequent black night clubs, because there were no laws barring him from entering any black business or other venue. To this day, in my opinion, Chuck Berry and Little Richard do not receive the amount of credit they deserve, for being two of the major influences of rock and roll. Chuck Berry was an influence to Bill Haley, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, Grateful Dead, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Peter Tosh, and a host of other artists. His reputation and influence on many artists speaks for itself and he could put a stamp on that. Without a doubt Elvis copied black artists. Without a doubt Elvis gets more credit than he probably deserves. Without a doubt Chuck Berry and Little Richard get less than they deserve. That said: Elvis and his music reached ALOT more people than Little Richard or Chuck Berry did. Yes, he did what Berry and Little Richard was doing, but he was white and it was the 1950's. Because of that he was more accessible to the masses, he was (somewhat) more accepted by parents of teenagers, he was (as you said) allowed to go places others couldn't. The man and society didn't hold him back. That doesn't make Elvis more talented, more original, or a even THE pioneer. However, popularity is s key to being influential. At the time, Elvis was a white guy doing black music. It took all that great stuff that was being done by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. and put it right in white America's living room. He popularized (and bastardized?) the art from and brought it to the masses and a massive/global audience. That cannot be denied and should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even James gave Elvis props when it was due. Bottom line: Only two other artists/groups have matched Elvis in terms of sheer universal sales and global recognition: The Beatles and Michael Jackson. This is not an endorsement of Elvis, just a bit of historical perspective. To say Elvis isn't hugely influential on pop music is as ignorant as not seeing Little Richard or Chuck Berry's influence on Elvis. [Edited 1/2/10 12:29pm] Name a single artist or music style that Elvis influenced. Be SPECIFIC. | |
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Name a single artist or music style that Elvis influenced. Be SPECIFIC.
"Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis. If there hadn't been Elvis, there would not have been The Beatles."----John Lennon. Go online and google "Who did Elvis influence"? or "Who is/was influenced by Elvis?" There are hundreds of other examples. [Edited 1/2/10 12:58pm] "New Power slide...." |
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More quotes from a google search:
"A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis." - Jackie Wilson. "Describe Elvis Presley? He was the greatest who ever was, is, or will ever be." - Chuck Berry. "Elvis had an influence on everybody with his musical approach. He broke the ice for all of us." – Al Green. "Elvis was my close personal friend. He came to my Deer Lake training camp about two years before he died. He told us he didn't want nobody to bother us. He wanted peace and quiet and I gave him a cabin in my camp and nobody even knew it. When the cameras started watching me train, he was up on the hill sleeping in the cabin. Elvis had a robe made for me. I don't admire nobody, but Elvis Presley was the sweetest, most humble and nicest man you'd want to know." - Muhammad Ali. "New Power slide...." |
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One more from Rollingstone.com:
"Simply put, Elvis Presley was the first real rock & roll star. A white Southerner singing blues laced with country, and country laced with gospel, he brought together American music from both sides of the color line and performed it with a natural hip-swiveling sexuality that made him a teen idol and a role model for generations of cool rebels. He was repeatedly dismissed as vulgar, incompetent, and a bad influence, but the force of his music and his image was no mere merchandising feat. Presley signaled to mainstream culture that it was time to let go. Four decades after his death, Presley’s image and influence remain undiminished. While certainly other artists preceded him and he by no means “invented” rock & roll, he is indisputably its king. As a recording artist, Presley’s accomplishments are unparalleled. He is believed to have sold over 1 billion records worldwide, about 40 percent of those outside the U.S. The RIAA has awarded Presley the largest number of gold, platinum, and multiplatinum certifications of any artist in history; as of early 2001, 131. His chart performance, as tracked by Billboard, is also unmatched, with 149 charting pop singles: 114 Top 40, 40 Top 10, and 18 #1s." "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said:[quote] 2elijah said: Oh, for goodness sakes, somebody stop the madness and the BS. No way in the soil of this earth did Elvis influence every artist out there. He may have influenced some, but no way will should he be given all the credit for a style he copied big time, from other artists. Come on now, let's give credit where credit is due. Elvis' style was copied from earlier black artists, and his influence was mostly on other white artists that tried to copy what he copied, after that. That was the trend back in that day, when many white artists tried to mock the styles of black artists, because that music was not being accepted in a segregated society until Elvis copied the singing music and dancing styles of black artists, because there really wasn't any other well-known, young white artist trying to do that at that time. It is not like Elvis didn't appreciate learning it from them, but the fact is, he did. He introduced it to white society in his own way. Like many orgers mentioned several times on this thread, the black music that was heard during the 40s and 50s were called "race" music, and all sorts of other names. If anybody was an influence it was Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and James Brown's music. Chuck Berry and Little Richard influenced Elvis, at least get the facts straight. If MJ called Elvis one of his influences, that's because Elvis copied his style from earlier black artists. Point blank. He didn't even know certain sounds of black music, until he made it his personal business to visit black night clubs, (and that was according to James Brown who confirmed in his book that Elvis inquired about certain types of music sung within the black community, and that he visited black nightclubs to learn the style) in a segregated society at the time, where black artists were not allowed to walk in the door of white clubs, but Elvis, being white, was allowed to frequent black night clubs, because there were no laws barring him from entering any black business or other venue. To this day, in my opinion, Chuck Berry and Little Richard do not receive the amount of credit they deserve, for being two of the major influences of rock and roll. Chuck Berry was an influence to Bill Haley, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, Grateful Dead, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Peter Tosh, and a host of other artists. His reputation and influence on many artists speaks for itself and he could put a stamp on that. Without a doubt Elvis copied black artists. Without a doubt Elvis gets more credit than he probably deserves. Without a doubt Chuck Berry and Little Richard get less than they deserve. That said: Elvis and his music reached ALOT more people than Little Richard or Chuck Berry did. Yes, he did what Berry and Little Richard was doing, but he was white and it was the 1950's. Because of that he was more accessible to the masses, he was (somewhat) more accepted by parents of teenagers, he was (as you said) allowed to go places others couldn't. The man and society didn't hold him back. That doesn't make Elvis more talented, more original, or a even THE pioneer. However, popularity is s key to being influential. At the time, Elvis was a white guy doing black music. It took all that great stuff that was being done by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. and put it right in white America's living room. He popularized (and bastardized?) the art from and brought it to the masses and a massive/global audience. That cannot be denied and should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even James gave Elvis props when it was due. Bottom line: Only two other artists/groups have matched Elvis in terms of sheer universal sales and global recognition: The Beatles and Michael Jackson. This is not an endorsement of Elvis, just a bit of historical perspective. To say Elvis isn't hugely influential on pop music is as ignorant as not seeing Little Richard or Chuck Berry's influence on Elvis. [Edited 1/2/10 12:29pm] To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] | |
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skywalker said: Name a single artist or music style that Elvis influenced. Be SPECIFIC.
"Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis. If there hadn't been Elvis, there would not have been The Beatles."----John Lennon. Go online and google "Who did Elvis influence"? or "Who is/was influenced by Elvis?" There are hundreds of other examples. [Edited 1/2/10 12:58pm] I can go find quotes on how great Hitler was.....show me where u can HEAR Elvis's influence on other artist. | |
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skywalker said: One more from Rollingstone.com:
"Simply put, Elvis Presley was the first real rock & roll star. A white Southerner singing blues laced with country, and country laced with gospel, he brought together American music from both sides of the color line and performed it with a natural hip-swiveling sexuality that made him a teen idol and a role model for generations of cool rebels. He was repeatedly dismissed as vulgar, incompetent, and a bad influence, but the force of his music and his image was no mere merchandising feat. Presley signaled to mainstream culture that it was time to let go. Four decades after his death, Presley’s image and influence remain undiminished. While certainly other artists preceded him and he by no means “invented” rock & roll, he is indisputably its king. As a recording artist, Presley’s accomplishments are unparalleled. He is believed to have sold over 1 billion records worldwide, about 40 percent of those outside the U.S. The RIAA has awarded Presley the largest number of gold, platinum, and multiplatinum certifications of any artist in history; as of early 2001, 131. His chart performance, as tracked by Billboard, is also unmatched, with 149 charting pop singles: 114 Top 40, 40 Top 10, and 18 #1s." Natural hip-swinging my ass. How many times you have to be told Elvis didn't know what gospel was until he visited Black churches. He wanted to learn that sound and he visited black churches to learn how. He frequented black night clubs to learn how to dance like blacks.
Blues was born out of the gospel sung on the plantations by black slaves and rock and roll was born out of both. Elvis was not responsible for creating neither music style. You've been bamboozled dude, but you keep believing that nonsense. It's amazing how some folks want to claim sh*t that never belonged to them nor did they have anything to do with its creativity. [Edited 1/2/10 13:21pm] | |
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Graycap23 said: skywalker said: "Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis. If there hadn't been Elvis, there would not have been The Beatles."----John Lennon. Go online and google "Who did Elvis influence"? or "Who is/was influenced by Elvis?" There are hundreds of other examples. [Edited 1/2/10 12:58pm] I can go find quotes on how great Hitler was.....show me where u can HEAR Elvis's influence on other artist. Look, you wanted specific examples. I gave you quotes. John Lennon saying that Elvis influenced him is enough. Obviously you disagree, and I respect your opinion. Prince himself has covered Elvis tunes and referenced him in more than one song. I am done. Thanks for the chat. BTW...if you can find a quote of any of these people praising Hitler, I'll be impressed and shocked.  "New Power slide...." |
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http://www.silver-dragon-...m/rnr1.htm
Origins of Rock and Roll The stereotypical rock and roll song uses a fast hard driving offbeat rhythm “borrowed” from gospel music, blues influenced acoustic or electric guitars and lyrics laced with sexual innuendo. The songs were sometimes written by a black author and remade with a white singer that was almost always inferior to the original version. Early rock and roll was much different however. It was heavily piano based and sax driven music that was a bit more heavily influenced by the blues groups of the time and played in underground clubs or "juke joints" by Rock and Roll - The birth of rock music musicians like Big Joe Turner, Chuck Berry, Roy Brown, Bill Haley, Fats Domino and Ike Turner. By 1949 the genre had become a huge movement in the music underground replacing the boogie-woogie style rhythm and blues of the early 40’s with the new faster uptempo fusion of gospel and blues that was now being called rock and roll. In ‘52 and '53, rock and roll was known by many Americans for its sappy love ballads usually sung by teen-aged crooners with names like the Ravens, and the Cardinals. Unlike many listeners young people had discovered that on the back of these albums were the real rock and roll songs [Edited 1/2/10 13:25pm] | |
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skywalker said: Graycap23 said: I can go find quotes on how great Hitler was.....show me where u can HEAR Elvis's influence on other artist. Look, you wanted specific examples. I gave you quotes. John Lennon saying that Elvis influenced him is enough. Obviously you disagree, and I respect your opinion. Prince himself has covered Elvis tunes and referenced him in more than one song. I am done. Thanks for the chat. BTW...if you can find a quote of any of these people praising Hitler, I'll be impressed and shocked. Prince covered "Johnny Be Good" by Chuck Berry. | |
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2elijah said: skywalker said: Without a doubt Elvis copied black artists. Without a doubt Elvis gets more credit than he probably deserves. Without a doubt Chuck Berry and Little Richard get less than they deserve. That said: Elvis and his music reached ALOT more people than Little Richard or Chuck Berry did. Yes, he did what Berry and Little Richard was doing, but he was white and it was the 1950's. Because of that he was more accessible to the masses, he was (somewhat) more accepted by parents of teenagers, he was (as you said) allowed to go places others couldn't. The man and society didn't hold him back. That doesn't make Elvis more talented, more original, or a even THE pioneer. However, popularity is s key to being influential. At the time, Elvis was a white guy doing black music. It took all that great stuff that was being done by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. and put it right in white America's living room. He popularized (and bastardized?) the art from and brought it to the masses and a massive/global audience. That cannot be denied and should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even James gave Elvis props when it was due. Bottom line: Only two other artists/groups have matched Elvis in terms of sheer universal sales and global recognition: The Beatles and Michael Jackson. This is not an endorsement of Elvis, just a bit of historical perspective. To say Elvis isn't hugely influential on pop music is as ignorant as not seeing Little Richard or Chuck Berry's influence on Elvis. [Edited 1/2/10 12:29pm] To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] Again, I am not saying it's fair or right that Elvis gets more credit than he deserves...especially compared to Little Richard. However, Elvis has heavily influenced popular music and culture. It's a fact. "New Power slide...." |
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2elijah said: skywalker said: Look, you wanted specific examples. I gave you quotes. John Lennon saying that Elvis influenced him is enough. Obviously you disagree, and I respect your opinion. Prince himself has covered Elvis tunes and referenced him in more than one song. I am done. Thanks for the chat. BTW...if you can find a quote of any of these people praising Hitler, I'll be impressed and shocked. Prince covered "Johnny Be Good" by Chuck Berry. Prince covered "Jailhouse Rock" in The Sacrifice of Victor. I've seen him do "All shook up" before as well. "New Power slide...." |
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hollywooddove said: WaterInYourBath said: No, he didn't. Elvis infulenced every artist out there, no way he couldnt. Just like MJ and Prince have also. They were so big in the business they left their fingerprints everywhere. Elvis never needs be cited. He's like gravity. I hate to belabor the point but once again Elvis is not a figure from Prince's time, so for the purposes of the topic we shouldn't be including him in this discussion, should we? Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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skywalker said: 2elijah said: To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] Again, I am not saying it's fair or right that Elvis gets more credit than he deserves...especially compared to Little Richard. However, Elvis has heavily influenced popular music and culture. It's a fact. Elvis, got over big time, because he was white and sang stolen music and dance moves from hardworking and creative black musicians that were clearly dismissed, disrespected and not given credit for the gospel, blues, rock and roll they originally introduced to America, because unfortunately, at that time, many Whites in America saw all those forms of music as "race, n*gger, and jungle" music, when performed by black musicians/artists. I mean white parents surely didn't want their daughters swooning over black musicians/artists, which is why Chuck Berry ended up going to jail, and accused of taking an underaged white girl across state lines, but it was more about him being "Black" and white girls chasing after him, and many in America did not like that, so he was arrested and served time for that. If Elvis did that, he would have been excused for it and offered more gigs. | |
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2elijah said: skywalker said: Again, I am not saying it's fair or right that Elvis gets more credit than he deserves...especially compared to Little Richard. However, Elvis has heavily influenced popular music and culture. It's a fact. Elvis, got over big time, because he was white and sang stolen music and dance moves from hardworking and creative black musicians that were clearly dismissed, disrespected and not given credit for the gospel, blues, rock and roll they originally introduced to America, because unfortunately, at that time, many Whites in America saw all those forms of music as "race, n*gger, and jungle" music, when performed by black musicians/artists. I mean white parents surely didn't want their daughters swooning over black musicians/artists, which is why Chuck Berry ended up going to jail, and accused of taking an underaged white girl across state lines, but it was more about him being "Black" and white girls chasing after him, and many in America did not like that, so he was arrested and served time for that. If Elvis did that, he would have been excused for it and offered more gigs. I agree with all of this. However, does this diminish Presley's influence on pop music/culture? [Edited 1/2/10 13:45pm] "New Power slide...." |
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babynoz said: hollywooddove said: Elvis infulenced every artist out there, no way he couldnt. Just like MJ and Prince have also. They were so big in the business they left their fingerprints everywhere. Elvis never needs be cited. He's like gravity. I hate to belabor the point but once again Elvis is not a figure from Prince's time, so for the purposes of the topic we shouldn't be including him in this discussion, should we? Uh, Elvis is from Prince's time. Prince was born in 1958. Elvis died in 1977. "New Power slide...." |
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2elijah said: skywalker said: Without a doubt Elvis copied black artists. Without a doubt Elvis gets more credit than he probably deserves. Without a doubt Chuck Berry and Little Richard get less than they deserve. That said: Elvis and his music reached ALOT more people than Little Richard or Chuck Berry did. Yes, he did what Berry and Little Richard was doing, but he was white and it was the 1950's. Because of that he was more accessible to the masses, he was (somewhat) more accepted by parents of teenagers, he was (as you said) allowed to go places others couldn't. The man and society didn't hold him back. That doesn't make Elvis more talented, more original, or a even THE pioneer. However, popularity is s key to being influential. At the time, Elvis was a white guy doing black music. It took all that great stuff that was being done by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc. and put it right in white America's living room. He popularized (and bastardized?) the art from and brought it to the masses and a massive/global audience. That cannot be denied and should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even James gave Elvis props when it was due. Bottom line: Only two other artists/groups have matched Elvis in terms of sheer universal sales and global recognition: The Beatles and Michael Jackson. This is not an endorsement of Elvis, just a bit of historical perspective. To say Elvis isn't hugely influential on pop music is as ignorant as not seeing Little Richard or Chuck Berry's influence on Elvis. [Edited 1/2/10 12:29pm] To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] So what then, am I to make of the quotes by Jackie Wilson, Chuck Berry and Al Green regarding Elvis as an influence? No, I'm not trying to argue. I understand what you expressed but I'm reading your post after the one with the quotes. Seems incongruent. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
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skywalker said: 2elijah said: Prince covered "Johnny Be Good" by Chuck Berry. Prince covered "Jailhouse Rock" in The Sacrifice of Victor. I've seen him do "All shook up" before as well. He did "All Shook Up" at Montreaux, 2009. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
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SUPRMAN said: 2elijah said: To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] So what then, am I to make of the quotes by Jackie Wilson, Chuck Berry and Al Green regarding Elvis as an influence? No, I'm not trying to argue. I understand what you expressed but I'm reading your post after the one with the quotes. Seems incongruent. It does seem incongruent. Music style does not exist in a vacuum. Could it be that these folks all borrowed a bit from each other? I dunno. "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: babynoz said: I hate to belabor the point but once again Elvis is not a figure from Prince's time, so for the purposes of the topic we shouldn't be including him in this discussion, should we? Uh, Elvis is from Prince's time. Prince was born in 1958. Elvis died in 1977. No he's not from Prince's time because it has nothing to do with their date of birth or death. Elvis' initial impact on the music scene is the 50's and 60s while Prince's main impact was late 70s thru the decade of the 80s. That's what the author means when he says figures from his time. But the actual topic is whether we agree or not that Prince has done more to destroy black music than any other figure of his time, so there's absolutely no reason for Elvis to be part of the discussion. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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SUPRMAN said: 2elijah said: To say that Elvis was an influence to all artists is extremely "ignorant". It is obvious the reason of his popularity and acceptance of an art he stole was based on his race, but was it fair to be "popularized" off someone else's originality? Absolutely not, but unfortunately, during that time, and based on White America's disrespect towards that type of music coming from black artists/musicians, obviously it was okay for them to give credit to someone they know the music/style never belonged to, but yet embraced it just because a white guy comes along and makes it his own and makes it "safe" for White American households, is a travesty unto itself, and undeserving to someone who stole the music styles of hardworking, creative black artists, who deserved to be credited for what they originally introduced to America period. It's a shame that even today, some folks justify something they know was wrong "because of the times" well that's a poor excuse to justify it, and it's never too late to correct a wrong is it? I stand steadfast to my opinion on this. and this is no disrespect to Elvis who obviously loved the music/styles of the black artists he stole it from, during a time White America saw it as "race", "n*gger" or "jungle" music, but I will not give credit to something or someone when I know who the creativity, art form or influence rightly belongs to, so we will have to agree to disagree. Chuck Berry, Little Richard and other black artists before them were the major influences and creators of rock and roll, coat that sugar all you want, it won't stick. [Edited 1/2/10 13:12pm] So what then, am I to make of the quotes by Jackie Wilson, Chuck Berry and Al Green regarding Elvis as an influence? No, I'm not trying to argue. I understand what you expressed but I'm reading your post after the one with the quotes. Seems incongruent. You not trying to argue with me is very hard to believe, but I won't play into it. Anyway, I don't recall asking you to quote anyone nor do I care if you did or not. Do as you wish. But with that being said, as babynoz said, Elvis wasn't really part of the topic of the thread in the first place, so I will respect that and get back on topic, as this thread already went from MJ to Elvis, and far off topic.[Edited 1/2/10 15:11pm] | |
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skywalker said: 2elijah said: Prince covered "Johnny Be Good" by Chuck Berry. Prince covered "Jailhouse Rock" in The Sacrifice of Victor. I've seen him do "All shook up" before as well. Yes he did, but nowhere did anyone say that Prince never sang an Elvis song. | |
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babynoz said: skywalker said: Uh, Elvis is from Prince's time. Prince was born in 1958. Elvis died in 1977. No he's not from Prince's time because it has nothing to do with their date of birth or death. Elvis' initial impact on the music scene is the 50's and 60s while Prince's main impact was late 70s thru the decade of the 80s. That's what the author means when he says figures from his time. But the actual topic is whether we agree or not that Prince has done more to destroy black music than any other figure of his time, so there's absolutely no reason for Elvis to be part of the discussion. Exactly, and you're right, we should stick to the topic at hand, forgive me if I went off topic as well. As far as Prince destroying black music, I can only see anyone comparing that to Prince being able to play many instruments during the recording of some of his songs, and how record labels saw that as a cost-effective way, as not having to pay a large number of band members within many of the black bands during the late 70s to mid 80s and beyond, as many have mentioned here, but I would not say he actually destroyed black music, as at the early time of his career, he was able to show that black artists can do more than just play or be categorized only in r&b music, and cross racial lines, and he succeeded in doing that. [Edited 1/2/10 17:29pm] | |
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2elijah said: skywalker said: Prince covered "Jailhouse Rock" in The Sacrifice of Victor. I've seen him do "All shook up" before as well. Yes he did, but nowhere did anyone say that Prince never sang an Elvis song. We were talking about Elvis and his influence on popular music. Prince covering an Elvis is an example of Prince being influenced by Elvis. Now back to the topic at hand... [Edited 1/2/10 15:21pm] "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: 2elijah said: Yes he did, but nowhere did anyone say that Prince never sang an Elvis song. We were talking about Elvis and his influence on popular music. Prince covering an Elvis is an example of Prince being influenced by Elvis. Now back to the topic at hand... [Edited 1/2/10 15:21pm] Prince has covered many songs from many artists, Elvis does not get the credit for that. Secondly, this thread is about "Prince Did More To Destroy Black Music Than Any Other Figure Of His Time - Outsider Post Alert: Agree/Disagree? " according to the author of the article. Elvis has absolutely nothing to do with something he never created, other than "duplicating" it from black artists who influenced Elvis'"ENTIRE" style. Now...back on topic. [Edited 1/2/10 15:47pm] | |
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babynoz said: skywalker said: Uh, Elvis is from Prince's time. Prince was born in 1958. Elvis died in 1977. No he's not from Prince's time because it has nothing to do with their date of birth or death. Elvis' initial impact on the music scene is the 50's and 60s while Prince's main impact was late 70s thru the decade of the 80s. That's what the author means when he says figures from his time. But the actual topic is whether we agree or not that Prince has done more to destroy black music than any other figure of his time, so there's absolutely no reason for Elvis to be part of the discussion. So just who are we talking about then? Artists who appeared 1979 or later? How do you define who is a figure of Prince's time for the purpose of this discussion? And how do we do that- pretend that pop music/culture didn't exist before Prince? [Edited 1/2/10 16:20pm] I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
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2elijah said: babynoz said: No he's not from Prince's time because it has nothing to do with their date of birth or death. Elvis' initial impact on the music scene is the 50's and 60s while Prince's main impact was late 70s thru the decade of the 80s. That's what the author means when he says figures from his time. But the actual topic is whether we agree or not that Prince has done more to destroy black music than any other figure of his time, so there's absolutely no reason for Elvis to be part of the discussion. Exactly, and you're right, we should stick to the topic at hand, forgive me if went off topic as well. As far as Prince destroying black music, I can only see anyone comparing that to Prince being able to play many instruments during the recording of some of his songs, and how record labels saw that as a cost-effective way, as not having to play a large number of band members within many of the black bands during the late 70s to mid 80s and beyond, as many have mentioned here, but I would not say he actually destroyed black music, as at the early time of his career, he was able to show that black artists can do more than just play or be categorized only in r&b music, and cross racial lines, and he succeeded in doing that. Yeah, Prince's refusal to be categorized is one of the things I was asking about a few pages ago when I asked BK whether or not his overall positive influence outweighed some of the unintended negative effects. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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By figures of his time I would think that the op is referring to his contemporaries, such as...
Michael Jackson Lionel Ritchie Alexander Oneal Rick James EWF to list a few examples. The op laid out his premise very specifically, defining Prince's influence from his time period going forward...it really ain't that hard to fathom. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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